From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 16 Sep 1993, part 2 Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Precedence: junk The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld) --------------------- From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland) Subject: Nomad use of... Message-ID: <9309151504.AA16918@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> Date: 15 Sep 93 19:04:24 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1693 Forwarded message: > Subject header missing. > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 10:32:12 EDT > From: brandon@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski) > Message-Id: <9309151432.AA20958@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov> > To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM > Content-Length: 1758 Charlie Domino writes: > All veggie fanaticism aside, meat contains certain protiens and >nutrients needed by the human body (as do vegetables & fruits). Our >technological society can produce most if not all of these in "pill" form, >making meat unnecessary, but Glorantha cannot. Our more sedentary lifestyle >and higher medical abilities can cope with nutrition deficiencies, whereas >the harsh, demanding, nomadic lifestyle of the Praxians cannot. I believe that many nomads on Earth get/got most of their protein from yogurt and yogurt cheese, both of which are very simple to make : To make yogurt, put milk in a skin and add a little bit of yogurt from the previous batch , then wait for a day or so. yogurt keeps for a few days, even without refrigeration, and milk doesn't, so this is advantageous. To make yogurt cheese, make yogurt, add a bit of vinegar or other acid to help it curdle, then strain through cloth and squeeze out the whey. Drink the whey; save the cheese (it has the consistency of cottage cheese) for later. Yogurt also dries fairly well, although I suspect dried yogurt is an acquired taste, and the chhecse preserves well if you add salt. > (It's said that nothing is left of a >slaughtered animal, all is consumed/used. To what uses are the hooves & >teeth put? What of the bones? The cartalige and inedible >tendons/ligaments?) >From what I have read, the bones are split for marow and then used in soup. The hooves are either used in soup or boiled together with the cartilage to make gelatin. The tendons and ligaments are dried and used to tie things together, for instance to haft spear points and arrow points. sinew makes very strong and tough cord. The teeth, I expect, are used for jewelry. Brandon --------------------- From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk Subject: Portraying spirits, nomad food, etc Message-ID: <9309151606.aa13161@uk.ac.ed.castle> Date: 15 Sep 93 15:06:41 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1694 >From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson) >Subject: Exorcising Spirits > >Greg: >I'd like to hear more about the "spiritual weapons" idea. Would they be like >ritual spells? Or like skills (a la Sorcery skills)? I considered introducing >a spell called Exorcise (Ritual, Ceremony) which simply allowed the caster >to engage in spirit combat (without actually discorporating per se). It would >be available as a Divine or Sorcery spell (not Spirit Magic). Being a >ritual spell it could not be used in a combat situation. (Nasty cults might >use it to possess prisoners though>:->). Does this seem fair, or does it make >life too easy? A spell similar to this already exists. It is called 'Attack Soul' and it is only available to shaman priestesses of the Subere cult. It allows the caster to enter into spirit combat with the target of the spell. It is the only method I know which allows a corporeal spirit to initiate spirit combat. My shaman character would give his right arm and left eye for the chance to sacrifice for this spell. Whatever you do, NEVER antagonise a Subere priestess. >Another idea: Is there a qualitative difference between a discorporate shaman >and any run-of-the-mill magic spirit? Call me a God Learner sympathiser, but >I kinda like the idea of nasty Lunar sorcerors Summoning & Dominating shamans. >Heh, and of course Binding them for use at a later date...>:-> >['scuse me while I cackle insanely...] > >CW. I think discorporate shamans are prety much like any other spirit. (none of this 'silvery cord leading back to the body' crap. If I were a Lunar sorcerer after some shaman's ass I would dispatch some bound spirits to ambush her on the spirit plane next time she discorporates. Uh oh, I hope my GM never reads this. As for being able to summon shaman spirits : I doubt it. It depends on what summoning rituals actualy do. I think they are probably too hit and miss. The target shaman would have to be discorporate at the time anyway. RE : The 'What do nomads eat?' debate. Are there no wild animals in prax? Surely there must be some wild herd and non herd animals roaming the plains. Even animals like rabbits and gophers could provide enough meat to comprise a ballanced diet. Not forgetting wild fowl, and fish from lakes and streams. (I know the maps do not show these, but there must be some in the wastes, otherwise the animals would die of thirst.) Someone said that it would be difficult for pedestrians like the morokanth to migrate nomadicaly. What about the american indians? They lived a nomadic life for thousands of years with no riding animals. Horses were introduced to North America by the spaniards. RE : The Spirit World. The discussions of spirit combat are all very interesting, but the RQIV rules on this seem to work ok in practice. I would like to get back to the subject of what the spirit world is actualy like. I agree with sentiments that the standard spirits are too rules mechanical, though some of the non-standard passion spirits I have encountered have been a lot of fun! Spirits should not be just abstract meaningless entities. Spell spirits and such should have a reason for existing. Afterall, what purpose does an ignite spell serve on the spirit plane? An eagle spirit might know farsee; a mouse spirit might know the silence spell; the ignite spell may come form a hearth spirit, or a spirit of forest fires (wildfire), etc. Simon Hibbs --------------------- From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu Subject: Round and Flat. Message-ID: <9309151601.AA01278@sonata.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 15 Sep 93 06:01:55 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1695 Urrr... All this arguing about the "true shape of the world" sounds like God Learners talking to me. Who are these Mercator and Longhair guys? Do we know that they're reliable. Maybe we ought to subject them to a few divine Ordeals to test their spiritual purity. I suggest a dunking chair to be followed by branding. Then they should be tossed into the air, encased in lead after they land, and finally buried. This will test them against all of the basic elements. I leave it to my Humakti colleagues to suggest how the other basic Universal traits should be tested upon them. Anbjorn Ragnarsson, Storm Voice of Orlanth --------------------- From: stormbull@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tim Westlake) Subject: Scribblings from the edge .... Message-ID:Date: 15 Sep 93 16:08:19 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1696 Well, two weeks after coming back from holiday, I have now got up to date with the digest, busy lot arnt you! Anyway, on with the points. In the Friday 10th September issue : Jarec sent in some notes on selling RQ (posters, re-launch etc). I agree totally. Both RQ and Glorantha have agreat deal to offer, but most people have past by due to boring cover art and costlyness. A re-launch could be what the game needs, it certainly helped role-master/MERP when ICE did it. --- Rob Mace commented on Steve Maurers Heroquest system. Why not upload it to soda? I dont know the procedure, but this would appear a good place to put it! also he writes > I will have to write an article some time on hero plane physics and > how hero plane actions relate to Time. Yes please! In the Tuesday the 14th issue Tom Zunder writes > Glorantha is patriarchal Try telling that to Kygor Litor! Now a question for the sages : If a god is created during time are they then considered outside of the cosmic compromise? Some gods that have been created are re-manifestations of god-time spirits (like the Red Goddess?) and so werent available to be part of the compromise at the begining of time. Does this therefore mean that they could time travel? Could they use prophesy? Or does the compromise mean that they may be able to jump back to god-time (sort of HeroQuesting) and then only back into the spot that they came from (a sort of "only one exit" control mechanism)? Timbo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | StormBull@cix.compulink.co.uk | "The reason God was able to create | | Westlake_Tim@Tandem.com | the world in 7 days was that he | |-------------------------------| didnt have to worry about the | | I am not a free man, I am a | installed base." | | Resource! | - Enzo Torresi | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: kenrolston@aol.com Subject: Tyram and Card Games Message-ID: <9309150941.tn00391@aol.com> Date: 15 Sep 93 13:41:54 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1697 David Dunham, RE: Soulwaste, the initiate of Tyram in DORASTOR encounters. I have no idea who Tyram is. Ask Sandy. It was on a list of a jillion questions I intended to ask him, and never got resolved. I kept the reference rather perversely just for its complete obscurity. In fact, I kind of hope that Sandy doesn't even know the answer. To all, a good idea: Stephen Martin just mentioned a swell idea over the phone. Seen Magic:The Gathering, a new card game from the Wizards of the Coast? Wouldn't that be a fine model for a Gloranthan card game? Ken --------------------- From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu Subject: Praxian diets Message-ID: <9309151624.AA01506@sonata.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 15 Sep 93 06:24:45 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1698 Well, the following is pure speculation on my part, and not in any way connected to any official Staffordian view of Glorantha, but this only means that it is 100% as valid as anything Greg comes up with, anyway, just harder to publish. Okay, I get the impression that the Wastes are pretty darn hard to live on if you are used to loamy soil and regular rains. So far as any northerner or river valley person would think, the entire Wastes are incapable of supporting life. I see them as follows, moving east from the Zola Fel: River Valley: This area is pretty wet and fertile. Somewhat regular flooding replenishes the soil, and irrigation programs extend agriculture beyond the narrow confines of the riverbanks. I tend to see the Zola Fel as more of a Mississippi in the middle of dry country than as a Nile, by the way. Vulture Country (I prefer "Buzzard" because it sounds neater): This is some seriously bad desert. For reasons unknown, there is very little rain here, even compared with the rest of the Wastes. This area also has several borax deposits, salt flats, and other types of "soil" which are incapable of supporting all but the hardiest (or chaotic) plant life, and, by extension, animals. The Wastes (excepting the copper sands and Genert's Garden): This area is the dry low-grass prarie. For those of you who don't know what I mean by this (and there are a surprising number of people, even in the USA, who have NO idea what a dry prarie is), I'll explain. Dry prarie is a special adaptation of the basic prarie ecosystem to dry conditions. The major plant is either blue fescue or red fescue (two species of grass). Due to lack of moisture, the grasses rarely get to any real height (no more than a mere meter--compared to the three+ meter height of normal prarie). These grasses are usually VERY silica-laden, which makes them extremely difficult for any mammal to digest. Furthermore, their seeds are extremely small and not worth the trouble to harvest. The other plants, or "berms" which exist can be classified into legumes (usually short clover), cacti (often prickly pear--which can be found in Wisconsin in the right dry praries), various flowering herbacious species, a scattering of woody shrubs (like the creosote bush), and the occasional tree (oak, usually). Now, this system is ultimately unstable, and needs to be replenished. Fortunately, dry prarie is highly flammable, and the occasional wildfire does the trick very nicely. Anyway, for a large herd to live on this, it would have to be adapted to eat and digest high-silica plants with a lot of cellulose and very little moisture. So, I see the Praxian diet as follows: Waha altered the animals of the Beastriders to be able to digest the plants of the Wastes (I conclude this from the fact that "Herd Men" can eat the tough Waste grasses). He then told the "people" of the Wastes that they were to act as partners to their herds. Okay, that's the mythic setting, what are the implications: I hold that Praxians have a very high meat diet simply because that is what Praxians are supposed to do from a mythic standpoint! Questions of Terran nutrition do not accurately apply to them, because they have been altered by Waha! Now, can a non-Praxian thrive on a Praxian diet? Probably not, but that non-Praxian can BECOME a Praxian by means of initiation into the tribe! Remember, Glorantha is a mythic landscape as well as a physical one. This is not to say that the Praxians eat only meat, but they can survive quite nicely on an exclusive meat diet because of the deal brokered by Waha. I would say that they also eat milk, koumis (urp), and cheese (which can VERY easily be made without the use of ANY metal--all you need is the right sort of container and the luck to get the right conditions). Yoghurt is also probable. As for plant foods, the women probably gather prickly pear, the fruits of shrubs, fleshy roots, starchy roots, etc. However, from religious conviction, NO Praxian would EVER eat something which looked like a leaf or a blade of grass, that is for the herds, by Divine agreement. Look at the diets of the Mongols for some ideas of what nomads would eat (although the Mongols are much closer to the Pentans than to the Praxians). --------------------- From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu Subject: Scary GodLearners vs. our world Message-ID: <9309151642.AA01842@sonata.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 15 Sep 93 06:42:58 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1699 Okay, a few things about Lewis's post on the Godlearners. He has some good ideas vis-a-vis the Godlearners themselves, but he makes some serious errors when extrapolating them. First, centralized authoritarian societies are antithetical to any sort of scientific or technological advance. (At least according to the archaeology and history of science that I've read.) What they DO is disseminate what they are able to steal from other cultures very well throughout their own, if and only if the powers that be deem it necessary. Believe me, Russian science is playing serious catch-up in nearly every field, not only from lack of funds, but because the centralized state was dictating research programs to researchers from the top. This doesn't work for shit, let me tell you. It is the independent researcher-originated program which produces new knowledge and new technology. Top-down organization may be more efficient in the short run, but it stifles all growth. As for our capitalist society (which we don't have, ask any Objectivist you care to meet whether or not US society is "truly" capitalist") being a centralized thing. HUH? Sorry, but although the US may have a strong national government, it's about as centralized as a Volvox (a colonial organism). Okay, maybe the UK has a centralized dictatorship of some sort, but the country is the size of a single STATE in the USA. Let me put it this way: The US national government puts up a united, centralized front for the rest of the world. But that's mostly propaganda. The national government is constantly having to negotiate, argue, etc. with the various state governments. Furthermore, many state and federal functions overlap and squabble with each other, thereby preventing any sort of central control. NOW, the various state governments have to contend with municipal, county, township, etc. governments, all of which have their own services, ordinances, and agendas. Theoretically, the federal government is over-arching, but the tail often wags the dog in the USA. Looking over it, I'm even a little happy that US government is such a disorganized kludge. Vigilance isn't the garantor of liberty, governmental inefficiency and incompetence is! Anyway, the concept that the US government is a centralized state is absurd. It's a wonderful disorder, with three, four, or more separate governments all playing in the same field at a time. Somehow, we get it to work. --------------------- From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu Subject: TradeTalk Message-ID: <9309151649.AA01967@sonata.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 15 Sep 93 06:49:23 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1700 I treat Tradetalk as a pidgin, which is DIFFERENT from one large region to another. For example, there is a Tradetalk of Prax/Wastes, which is based on Pavic. This TradeTalk is mostly used to communicate between the various Praxian tribes (who all speak different languages) and the river valley folk. There is also a Dragon Pass Trade Talk, based on a mixture of Sartar and Tarshite, used mostly for trade between those people and some trade to the south. However, Trade Talk is very limited in scope. A conversation (for a Tradetalk based on English): A: Yo-hey, dere! Howmuch be skins? B: Yo-hey, dere! Dey be fifty per. A: Fifty per!? It be too much, I say forty per. B Forty per be too little, mebbe forty-five? A: Okay, forty-five. B: Done! Okay, where be de eat-place? A: Eat-place? Go sundown till see scribble red horse. B: What mean? Scribble red horse? A: Horse on wood, hangs up. B: Okay, Thanks. This is what I see Trade-Talk as being. A shorthand special-purpose tongue. --------------------- From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu Subject: RuneQuest Adventures Message-ID: <9309151654.AA02039@sonata.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 15 Sep 93 06:54:49 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1701 Okay, I've heard of it, but what is it? Is it nothing more than a bunch of damned canned scenarios, or does it publish stuff that is really worthwhile? --------------------- From: JLROGERS@utkvx.utk.edu (Jim Rogers) Subject: Great Plains = Prax? Message-ID: <01H2Z7LMJ0M08ZJKS0@utkvx.utk.edu> Date: 15 Sep 93 08:56:24 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1702 Jim Rogers here again I've been thinking, thanks to Greg F., Charlie D., and others, about Praxian nomads. Being inclined professionally and motivated personally, I did some brief research on how much Prax shared with the Great Plains of North America in the mid-19th C. The 1819 Long expedition, sponsored by the U.S., gave the Plains the title "Great American Desert" to those blessed farmers East of the Mississippi. The images based on this report seem hauntingly familiar to the presumed Esrolian / Pelorian descriptions of Prax and the Waste. Yet, the Plains Indians had no trouble at all living there, chiefly due to the buffalo. And American cattle barons certainly could share their view in a latter day. For some speculation (asbestos armor, on!) on N.A. geography vs. Glorantha: River of Cradles = Platte R. or Missouri/Kansas R. Prax proper = Central Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Dakotas Wastes = New Mexico, West Texas, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana I would hope that this might be of some help to those looking for ecological / sociological fits between the Praxian nomads and some historical parallels. Since there's lots of stuff out there on the Great Plains, have at it! Signing off. Jim R. --------------------- From: mdabbott@aol.com Subject: Bantu Message-ID: <9309151248.tn02546@aol.com> Date: 15 Sep 93 16:48:03 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1703 Peter van Heusden writes: >Oh damn, forgot who wrote this: >> Tradetalk >> --------- >> >> I don't understand why people hate Tradetalk. Earth has many such >> lingua franca. The most obvious being Swahili and Bantu in Africa. > ^^^^^^^^^ >Bantu? What's Bantu? All I know Bantu as is a generic term for black, currently >very out of favour. Bantu is actually the name of a large family of languages spoken throughout southern and central Africa. These languages spread along with the people and their culture and are by far the dominant languages and cultures in the southern half of Africa. However, they really aren't comparable to Tradetalk. "Bantu" is rather like "Romance" or "Germanic". The languages in the family are certainly closely related but normally not any more mutually intelligible than French and Spanish or English and German. Swahili is indeed comparable to Tradetalk in some ways being a language derived from several others and fostered by trade. However, it was never as widespread as Tradetalk is usually portrayed, and eventually it replaced the indigenous language in some places. Mark --------------------- From: andy@noc.unt.edu (Andy Mears) Subject: Subscribe Message-ID: Date: 15 Sep 93 10:51:28 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1704 Subscribe me please.