From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 05 Oct 1993, part 1
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk
The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.
Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the
Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying.
Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.
Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:
RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)
---------------------
From: awr0@aber.ac.uk
Subject: Greetings People
Message-ID: <9310020823.AA03324@deca>
Date: 2 Oct 93 10:23:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1892
Adam Reynolds back in Aberystwith for one weekend
The trip to China was great, and have started developing 2 new cults and
a few scenarios based on my trip.
I will be at Convulsions in 94, so all those people who have a copy
of the RQ material I put together can buy me a drink :->
Could I please be put back on the RQ digest list? I'll probably get the
chance to read it every 1 or 2 weeks. There'll be a lot to read, but I
need my fix!
Johann of Free INT, I'll send that check ASAP. I've just moved house
and am still unpacking!
Till the red goddess shines upon us again, farewell
Adam
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail)
Subject: PenDragon Pass religious traits
Message-ID: <199310021629.AA08373@radiomail.net>
Date: 2 Oct 93 16:29:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1893
Here's the table from my Gloranthan PenDragon Pass game. (In Pendragon,
each religion has 5 virtues; having all 5 at 16+ gives a bonus. There are
too many Gloranthan religions for that, but you do have to make 3 of 5
trait rolls to become an initiate or rune level.)
Darkness Pantheon
Argan Argar: Energetic, Selfish, Honest, Indulgent, Trusting
Kyger Litor: Vengeful, Selfish, Cruel, Proud, Indulgent
Xiola Umbar: Forgiving, Generous, Just, Merciful, Trusting
Zorak Zoran: Valorous, Vengeful, Arbitrary, Cruel, Indulgent
Earth Pantheon
Aldrya: Modest, Suspicious, Lustful, Pious, Valorous
Asrelia: Selfish, Deceitful, Temperate, Worldy, Modest
Babeester Gor: Energetic, Vengeful, Valorous, Cruel, Suspicious
Ernalda: Lustful, Forgiving, Generous, Merciful, Modest
Flamal: Lustful, Energetic, Forgiving, Generous, Merciful
Maran Gor: Chaste, Vengeful, Arbitrary, Cruel, Indulgent
Mostal: Energetic, Vengeful, Selfish, Just
Ty Kora Tek: Cruel, Modest, Arbitrary, Temperate, Pious
Voria: Energetic, Forgiving, Generous, Merciful, Trusting
Moon Pantheon
Annilla: Deceitful, Vengeful, Suspicous, ?, ?
Red Goddess: (have all traits at 10, plus or minus 2)
Seven Mothers: Energetic, Generous, Proud, Temperate, Valorous
Nomad Gods
Eiritha: Generous, Energetic, Forgiving, Honest, Merciful
Urox: Proud, Arbitrary, Indulgent, Suspicious, Valorous
Waha: Just, Valorous, Proud, Energetic, Lustful
Storm Pantheon
Chalana Arroy: Forgiving, Generous, Merciful, Modest, Trusting
Eurmal: Lustful, Lazy, Deceitful, Selfish, Indulgent
Humakt: Energetic, Honest, Proud, Temperate, Valorous
Issaries: Energetic, Selfish, Proud, Suspicious, Worldly
Orlanth: Energetic, Generous, Just, Proud, Valorous
Lankhor Mhy: Honest, Just, Proud, Suspicious, Worldly
Sun Pantheon
Chalana Arroy: Chaste, Forgiving, Generous, Merciful, Trusting
Dendara: Chaste, Forgiving, Generous, Merciful, Modest
Golden Bow (Jardan): Valorous, Energetic, Proud, Honest, Temperate
Hippoi: Generous, Energetic, Forgiving, Honest, Merciful
Hyalor: Just, Valorous, Generous, Energetic, Proud
Lodril: Modest, Energetic, Worldly, Lustful, Indulgent
Yelm: Chaste, Generous, Honest, Just, Valorous
Yelmalio: Chaste, Energetic, Honest, Temperate, Valorous
Yelorna: Chaste, Valorous, Vengeful, Energetic, Honest
Miscellaneous Deities
Donandar: Energetic, Deceitful, Merciful, Generous, Indulgent
Hunter: Valorous, Energetic, Generous, Merciful, Proud
Lanbril: Cowardly, Selfish, Deceitful, Cruel, Suspicious
Uleria: Lustful, Forgiving, Generous, Merciful, Indulgent
The source: I bear responsibility for this, but some of these traits were
taken from unpublished HeroQuest notes from Sandy Petersen. (I think it was
he who suggested the Red Goddess have "moderate" traits.) This dates back
to 1987, and I may have different opinions on some of this today.
Note that I prefer to use standardized terms. Lanbril don't think of
themselves as cowardly, but they do believe that getting into a fight is
stupid. Also note that in different pantheons, the same religion (e.g.
Chalana Arroy) can have slightly different virtues. It may even vary from
temple to temple.
David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net
---------------------
From: imlac@acs.bu.edu (Eric Johnson-DeBaufre)
Subject: Mounted Combat Questions
Message-ID: <9310021921.AA131360@acs2.bu.edu>
Date: 2 Oct 93 11:21:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1894
Let me first say how wonderful some of the recent discussion on the
daily has been. Contrary to some people's fears that the discussions on the
daily had become too rules oriented, most of the recent discussions have been
about various aspects of Gloranthan culture, language, and spirituality.
Contributions from people like Nick Brooke and Michael O'Brien make reading
this digest trully pleasurable and educational. It just goes to show you that these things have a way of working themselves out without the need for
moderated discussion. While I'm at it, thanks as well to Henk for the high
quality and timeliness of this daily.
Although I have just praised the daily for returning to a more
Glorantha centered focus, I do have a question for those of you who may know
more about rules. Although combat is fairly infrequent in my game (we often
spend whole evenings without anyone so much as drawing a sword) there was a
situation that recently occurred involving mounted combat which made me wonder
whether or not I had resolved the encounter fairly. Let me detail the
situation for you: One of the players's characters, a huge, fat and rather
slow Storm Bull initiate, was charged by a spear wielding, mounted Zebra Rider
while in the Rubble. The Zebra Rider charged from approximately 40 meters
(moving at 8m/SR) and would have struck the crazed Bull-man on strike rank 5.
The SB, realizing that even a succesful parry might take him out of the fight,
decided to Dodge the charging Zebra Rider and slice at him with his broadsword
(which he would do on strike rank 7--I said he was _slow_). The Bull dodged
out of the way, but here is the question: If the Zebra Rider is assumed to
continue riding, he would be 8 meters away on SR6 and 16 meters away on SR7!
This would leave the SB no chance to attack with his sword, as there would
simply not be a target available. Does this sound right to everyone??
That is the way I ruled it, and it forced the rather pissed off Storm Bull
to drop his sword, grab a bow and shoot the zebra out from under the Zebra
Rider. Is there something in the rules that contradicts this?? I'd
appreciate any comments you all have.
Thanks,
Eric Johnson-DeBaufre
---------------------
From: Tom.Zunder@mettav.royle.org (Tom Zunder)
Subject: Glorantha vs Runequest
Message-ID:
Date: 1 Oct 93 09:05:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1895
May I ask an impertinent question {code for @"I'm gonna
anyway@"}?
Are we discussing RQ or Glorantha here?
I like RQ and I like Glorantha. I like to play a magic rich world in
which
people have access to magic, where the fast paced action of role
playing
games can be coped with in the mechanics.
Greg is changing his view of Glorantha, all well and good, but RQ
doesn't
have to change. Maybe other Glorantha games will emerge, but RQ is a
good
game as it stands.
Cults obviously need explainign a little more, the suggestion that
one
progresses from cult to cult thru life seems good and real. It's also
p**s
easy to implement.
The only decision to be made is what happens to your reusable magic.
Probably it doesn't change, unless you opt for, but that's a decison for
a
referee or AH to make and publish.
Chasoium/AH could publish the cultural religions of Orlanthi, Solar etc,
in
much the same shape as the Seven Mothers. Some articles from Greg in a
RQ
Companion about the cultural path that people take, ie
Voria-Ernalda-Ty
Kora Tek and how to manage the changes. It's all quite
easy.
Lhankor Mhy and Issaries are a case where I'd support a rewrite.
Lhnakor
Mhy as written up just isn't the LM that a Sartar clan would know. It
needs
breaking down into a barbarian lawspeaker cult and a civilised
scholar
cult. Both can co-exist, both are Lhankor Mhy, but the focii
are
different. (No, Idon't mean the spirit magic focii either).
God Learners. God Learners are a part of Glorantha's past and mythos.
To
refute them is to fail to understand them. They were as disparate
and
various as any of the other forces in the world, let us embrace and
love
their message of global understanding whilst accepting their
failure.
I repeat, Nick Brooke is a God Learner, just look at the things he
says.
Zeus and Jupiter the same? Bah!
:-)
Pendragon
I'm appalled by the idea that people want to adopt the traits/passions
from
Pendragon. This mechanism is deterministic, allows no free thinking
roleplaying and presumes that none of us can play a character from a
nother
culture or mindset. If you need these mechanics then you won't
understand
what they're trying to do, if you understand whta they're trying to do
you
don't need the mechanic.
Magic
I thnk the path to enriching magic is to develop slow magics, like
the
travelling omen ritual in RQA2. Slow and interesting magics which
are
cheapin MP or POW to cast, but take time and preparation. Some
spirit
magics are probably wrong, heal is too powerful, but like the GL cults,
we
can't rebuild RQ without them.
HeroQuest
I think a Storm Bull dropping a rock on a chaos monster rates as a
HeroQuest. How mytically important depends on two things;
How big a monster
How big a rock
:-)
Teshnos
Anyone know anymore about Teshnos? This seems like a good place for
some
cultural diversity. The Genertela book description of the religion
looks
like some Nick Brooke cultural diversity might be fun.
Bye
---------------------
From: Paul.Baker@mettav.royle.org (Paul Baker)
Subject: Glorantha vs Runequest
Message-ID:
Date: 1 Oct 93 15:43:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1896
May I ask an impertinent question {code for @"I'm gonna
anyway@"}?
Are we discussing RQ or Glorantha here?
I like RQ and I like Glorantha. I like to play a magic rich world in
which
people have access to magic, where the fast paced action of role
playing
games can be coped with in the mechanics.
Greg is changing his view of Glorantha, all well and good, but RQ
doesn't
have to change. Maybe other Glorantha games will emerge, but RQ is a
good
game as it stands.
Cults obviously need explainign a little more, the suggestion that
one
progresses from cult to cult thru life seems good and real. It's also
p**s
easy to implement.
The only decision to be made is what happens to your reusable magic.
Probably it doesn't change, unless you opt for, but that's a decison for
a
referee or AH to make and publish.
Chasoium/AH could publish the cultural religions of Orlanthi, Solar etc,
in
much the same shape as the Seven Mothers. Some articles from Greg in a
RQ
Companion about the cultural path that people take, ie
Voria-Ernalda-Ty
Kora Tek and how to manage the changes. It's all quite
easy.
Lhankor Mhy and Issaries are a case where I'd support a rewrite.
Lhnakor
Mhy as written up just isn't the LM that a Sartar clan would know. It
needs
breaking down into a barbarian lawspeaker cult and a civilised
scholar
cult. Both can co-exist, both are Lhankor Mhy, but the focii
are
different. (No, Idon't mean the spirit magic focii either).
God Learners. God Learners are a part of Glorantha's past and mythos.
To
refute them is to fail to understand them. They were as disparate
and
various as any of the other forces in the world, let us embrace and
love
their message of global understanding whilst accepting their
failure.
I repeat, Nick Brooke is a God Learner, just look at the things he
says.
Zeus and Jupiter the same? Bah!
:-)
Pendragon
I'm appalled by the idea that people want to adopt the traits/passions
from
Pendragon. This mechanism is deterministic, allows no free thinking
roleplaying and presumes that none of us can play a character from a
nother
culture or mindset. If you need these mechanics then you won't
understand
what they're trying to do, if you understand whta they're trying to do
you
don't need the mechanic.
Magic
I thnk the path to enriching magic is to develop slow magics, like
the
travelling omen ritual in RQA2. Slow and interesting magics which
are
cheapin MP or POW to cast, but take time and preparation. Some
spirit
magics are probably wrong, heal is too powerful, but like the GL cults,
we
can't rebuild RQ without them.
HeroQuest
I think a Storm Bull dropping a rock on a chaos monster rates as a
HeroQuest. How mytically important depends on two things;
How big a monster
How big a rock
:-)
Teshnos
Anyone know anymore about Teshnos? This seems like a good place for
some
cultural diversity. The Genertela book description of the religion
looks
like some Nick Brooke cultural diversity might be fun.
Bye
---------------------
From: nrobinso@sirius.UVic.CA (Neil Robinson)
Subject: Stream spirits and River Gods
Message-ID: <38605.nrobinso@sirius.uvic.ca>
Date: 3 Oct 93 18:43:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1897
What? Who said that streams don't have spirits. What about the Zola
Fel? Many other river spirits and gods are described too.
Thinking about the Zola Fel brings up an interesting question. Being
a river, it exists on the normal plane, but being a god, it is also on
the god/hero plane. By expanding this, we can see the Zola Fel on ALL
planes, but in a different form, I guess.
Now for my question: which rivers are gods, and which are spirits? I
would guess that the more worshippers, or the larger the river, the
better chance it has of being a god.
By this definition, all Gods are really just powerful spirits that
gain additional power from their worshippers, and the
mundane/spirit/hero/god planes are really different parts of the same
place. We 'digest God-Learners' just have trouble understanding the
concept.
Neil
"If they only knew, they could change the world."
Neil Robinson | "Never underestimate the power of human
nrobinso@sirius.uvic.ca | stupidity." - L. Long
2996 Dysart Rd. Victoria B.C. V9A 2K2 (604) 385-1642
---------------------
From: davidc@kultarr.cs.uwa.oz.au (David Cake)
Subject: Re: Protective Circle
Message-ID: <199310040236.KAA13261@kultarr.cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 4 Oct 93 02:37:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1898
One problem with having Protective Circle always appear as a
hemisphere, is what happens if it is cast (somhow!) in the air? Perhaps on a
platform, or magic carpet. Can things come up through the floor?
The whole problem of 'personal force fields' etc. is removed if the
Protective Circle needs to have a drawn border, which I like a lot. It doesn't
matter that much what the other limitiations are if it has to have a drawn
border, as the only way then to move a protective circle is to move the
surface that it is written on. Perhaps it should be a full globe, just most
of it below the surface of the Earth in most cases?
I like the having to scribe a circle, it is a nice counterpart to the
warding rods. I also presume that Protective Circles can be removed by
breaking the circle, and sometimes this is very easy (eg if it only has
Resist Spell, it is real easy to break through it). I like the idea of
the sorcerer having to scribe the circle. And there is a reason for High
intensity small area circles - time of preparation.
The base protective circle is just a circle, but if you combine it
with ceremoy skill and take a long time to create it, I imagine you get those
wonderful ornate magic circles - complete with the Gloranthan equivalanet of
the Seal of Solomon and the signs of the Zodiac and the names of the
Arch-Angels. A nice image.
Cheers
Dave Cake
---------------------
From: mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au (Mr Robert McArthur)
Subject: illumination and hyena skins
Message-ID: <199310040507.BAA01205@fitmail.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 4 Oct 93 20:07:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1899
johnjmedway writes
> Interesting coincidence. An Etyries player character just bought some
> hyeana skins, with the intent to sneak them into a sale to an Issaries.
...
> joerg:
> >> Your Illumination reasoning doesn't work, why else could illuminated
> >> Humakti or Yelmalions ignore their geasa without negative consequences,
> >> which have nothing to do with chaos?
> >>
> >> A possible explanation to this might be that while Etyries WAS
> >> illuminated, this priest wasn't, so that he has to follow the
> >> strictures his deity could ignore.
>
> If interpreted loosely, this could also imply than until illuminated,
> a worshipper of Yanafal Tarnils, could not be resurrected; a Irripi
> Ontor priest would have to wear a beard, etc.
No no no. Since they are worshipping a deity who is illuminated, they must
obey the strictures of the deity. If the deity has loose strictures (w.r.t.
chaos, throwing hyena skins around etc) then they can obey them. That is,
they don't have to wear a beard, unless Irripi Ontor did; could be
resurrected, if Yanafal says it's ok.
Yanafal and Irripi et al are new deities who, IMHO, have taken some powers
from other beings (but see below). Thus, their worshippers need not be
illuminated to gain their powers. Of course, only illuminates could reach
the upper levels and use the real powers of the deity. The question could
now become: is every *priest* of any of the 7 mothers illuminated? (in order
to be that close to their deity. Given the discussion on the list about
the worship of Yelm in his guises by people never having heard of him in his
other form, I think it ok for priests to be un-illuminated.
>
> Better to say that he was a member of some Etyries subcult, or had been an
> Issaries until he coinverted, or that this was not one of the "improvements"
> of Etyries, than to pin such things on illumination.
Hmm, can anyone provide any details/explanation on how close any other seven
mothers are to their counterparts (eg. Etyries vs Issaries)? Especially given
the absolute similarity in the powers/rune spells available. For example,
no other cult besides Humakt and Yanafals has reusable sever spirit, even
though many are deeply associated with the death rune. The idea that the
7 fought and injured/killed their counterparts on the heroplane and then stole
some of their powers dosen't really wash since they have ALL of the powers of
the original god. Stealing/gainaing a power that way should not make you
as powerful/good at using it as the original god, especially as the original
god has had a *lot* more time (:-) than you to know its ins-and-outs. In
Nomad Gods, one of the items is the the bow that, reputadly, Yelm(alio?) used.
The first people who got hold of it were one of the Prax tribes. Ever since
they have had remarkable ability with the bow. It also says that, of course,
it doesn't do that for it's finders/users any more. This would seem to say
that the first being to find/use something has a large advantage over those
who come after.
Robert
---------------------
From: pvanheus@cs.uct.ac.za (Peter van Heusden)
Subject: Protective Circle
Message-ID:
Date: 4 Oct 93 12:48:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1900
Kirsten speaks:
[deleted region]
>
> Now, it is possible to squeeze meaning out of the description,
> but it is not likely that everyone will squeeze the same
> meaning. For example, what is the shape of the circle in three
> dimensions? I always thought of it as a hemisphere, but
> another game group full of bright people think of it as a
> cylinder with a height = radius. Perhaps it is a cone (like the
> Law rune)?
Well, according to Earth tradition, a protective circle is either
a hemisphere or a cone. (I have seen hemisphere in Norse work,
cone in modern Wicca) I kinda prefer the cone. Medieval traditions
I am vague on, if I can remember correctly, the 3rd dimension is
not covered, but then Earth tradition has a circle essentially
being a shield against spirits, and thus everyone within its radius
is protected or sanctified... no 3d applies.
Peter
*******************************************************************************
Peter van Heusden One man one newsfeed
CS3, UCT, Cape Town, RSA "but I love the setting. and the hippies
pvanheus@cs.uct.ac.za will be back in the fall" Red_Guest on MediaMOO
---------------------
From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Protective Circle - *Raise Shields*
Message-ID: <9310040944.AA08258@Sun.COM>
Date: 4 Oct 93 09:48:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1901
Ref: X-RQ-ID: 1889 (Kirsten Niemann)
About protective circle:
1) I totally agree with the radius = intensity, who wants to use cube root of
the square of the intensity in the middle of a game!?
2) Your worry about the chair suspended above the ground may not be valid as
if the chair sinks very slowly then the ground will not cause it any damage.
So I would suggest this is what happens.
3) I rather like the idea of mobile protective circles, I imagine that they are
similar to the shields in Dune. Thus the way to kill someone inside one is
to slowly and gently slip a rapier inside! Also I like the effect of a
mobile CoP when the sorceror falls off a cliff. At the bottom, if the circle resists the damage the sorceror is abruptly halted and taks all the damage
to the centre of their magical power (Heart or Brain), splat! Thus, no sane sorceror will cast a mobile CoP on themselves, much better to use a wagon bed4) Forget about the perfect circle bit (tooo much trouble) the next thing you
know some GM will be asking the sorceror to make a roll to see whether he has inscribed his circle within tollerance limits (Arg!). Allow the the area to be of any shape, but the maximum radius rule applies. Thus squares and
rectangles are OK, but circles of the same maximum radius will always have a
a greater area.
-----
Lewis
-----