Bell Digest v931008p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 08 Oct 1993, part 1
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk

The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.

Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
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Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
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Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:

RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)

---------------------

From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham  , via RadioMail)
Subject: Re: Sin-Eater; mounted combat; handouts
Message-ID: <199310070725.AA02895@radiomail.net>
Date: 7 Oct 93 07:24:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1938

>From: MAB@SAVAX750.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK (Mystic Musk Ox)
>ne of the themes was that of a Sin-Eater. The idea is that a village
>has a carnival each year. For the carnival, food is prepared which contains
>the sins of the villagers. Someone (preferably an outsider) then eats the
>food, thus ridding the village of the sins. In the production, the food
>is poisoned such that the eater dies and takes the sins to the land of the
>dead. The sins seemed to be got into the food by each of the villagers
>chewing something, which was then spat into a bucket and then included
>in the meal.
>
>Does anyone know if this is a real ritual (presumably apart from the
>poisoning) which takes place in the real world? It sounds very Catholic
>to me.

Reminds me of the Aztec goddess Tlazolteotl. (She was an earth or moon
deity, if I recall correctly.) One of her titles was "Eater of Filth."

>From: Brian.Curley@ccmail.adp.wisc.edu (Brian CURLEY)
>Subject: Mounted Combat
>I think your interpretation of mounted combat sounds good. It's also extremely
>realistic. The SB player should have known that this Zebra Rider's mount was
>far
>faster than he was and there was no way he was going to get a strike in before
>the ZR blew by him.

Pardon, but someone has to ride by amazingly fast for me to be unable to
swing at them. That may be because I'm inconsiderate enough not to time my
swings to once/melee round :-)

Melee rounds and strike ranks are game conventions. Where they conflict
with the real world (as in the mounted vs footman example), they should be
relaxed.

>From: gal502@cscgpo.anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
> Barntar: what detail is available about Barntar, the Orlanthi
>Plough/Farmer God, outside of KoS? I may be starting to GM
>Dorastor: Land of the Big Laughs in a few weeks and I suspect
>that there will some PC Orlanthi farmers in the party. If there
>is no detail available I will play Barntar initiates as male
>Ernalda initiates: men can rise to acolyte in the Ernalda cult.

Don't know of any (Nick probably does), but in my non-Gloranthan game, I
had a plow god closely associated with the barley goddess. The men were
responsible for planting and harvesting, the women for tending.

>From: gal502@cscgpo.anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
>One problem I have is that Chaosium/AH player
>handouts tend to give out too much information IMO. I found this problem
>in Griffin Island and I'm seeing it again in Dorastor: I dont want to
>give the players the handouts because I think it tells them too much.
>Do other people do this?

I gleefully give out all the handouts applicable when running Griffin
Island (I think I've used all but two so far). Yes, they may give out more
info than has been played, but I believe in abstraction. The characters
have more time to learn this stuff than we do to play it, after all. And
when it's common knowledge, they've grown up with it, and know (if not
understand) all the nuances.

The handouts are to save time (and give players something to refer back
to). As such, they should convey as much information as possible. Yes, I
give them the map before they visit the entire citadel. They will, sooner
or later, and it's not worth the game time to do selective revealing.

(I especially like the Griffin Island handouts because they're all so
biased, depending on the speaker.)

In Dorastor, I'd have liked to see more of the "common knowledge" extracted
from the text and put in handouts.

David Dunham * Software Designer  *  Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net


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From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance)
Subject: C&S Basic Magick for RQ
Message-ID: <01H3T7M3PDJM002K69@UG.EDS.COM>
Date: 6 Oct 93 17:08:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1939

This is the only coherent bit of the C&S/RQ fusion, part of that 
quest for the alchymic marriage of C&S magick and RQ skills that, 
in certain quarters at least, was the Great Work for the 1980's.  
What nostalgia.

This approach makes the spells into variable cost battle magic, 
creating one volume as the basic unit, with a 40m range and 1 
round duration.  The magic-point costs of all the various aspects 
- create, detach &c. - are paid in the one casting.

			CR	D	A	AAI	C
Dark/Light		2	1	1	1	1
Cold/Heat		2	1	1	1	1
Ice			1	1	2	2	2
Rock			2	2	2	2	2
Earth/MagickFire	1	1	2	2	2
Sand/Fire/Flame		1	1	1	1	1
Water			1	1	1	1	1
Spray/Mist		1/2	1	1/2	1	1
Air			1	1/2	1/2	1	1
Poison Gas		4	2	2	3	3

CR = Create or Remove
D = Detach
A = Affix
AAI = Accelerate or Amplify or Intensify
C = Concentrate

Sum points, rounding odd halves up to get per-volume magic point 
cost.  The per volume effects are

Rock - 3D6 damage (armour counts) and 20 vs target SIZ for 
knockdown
Earth - 2D6, same knockdown.
Walls of the above have 30HP, sheets 20.  Rock has 8pt armour, 
earth 4.
Sand has a value of 20 that can be split among up to 3 opponents, 
roll the individual value vs target SIZ for knockdown.

Ice is like Earth, but with 10 HP less as sheet or wall.  Water 
attacks like sand, but with a base value of 45.

Fire and Flame do 1D6 as per a salamander, Magick Fire 3D6.  All 
these are doubled by Intensify.

Gas is poisonous with potency = caster POW.

Targeting skill base = POW+INT.  Other values will have to be 
fudged. 

---------------------

From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Gods'n'spirits; Various stuff
Message-ID: <9310071231.AA17237@condor>
Date: 7 Oct 93 12:31:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1940


My incomming email seems slightly screwed at the moment so I'm reading
the Daily from soda.berekeleye (did I get all the e's this time?)...
Henk, the email problem isn't at your end, is it?

______
Geoff:
> The idea of transferring myself physically into the SP I'm having a lot of
> problems with ( e=mc^2, after all!  The physical can't exist on the spiritual,
> so where does it go ?  Saved up as raw energy for the transfer back ?

The physical (SIZ) is left behind in the mundane world. Everything else
STR, CON etc (or at least POW+INT+APP) is transferred into the spirit world.
This is how I see discorporation working. The shaman leaves his body (SIZ)
behind.

> And transferral the other way (i.e. Demonic appearence) has the same problems.
> But note - the use of energy to create mass might account for the temperature
> drop/rise present at so many mythical happenings.  Anyone help me out of this
> hole I've dug myself ? 

I'd say when demons are summoned from the spirit plane some substance (SIZ)
must be provided for them to form bodies (just like elementals).
Demons summoned from the God Plane might already have bodies however.
__

>re: Colin Watson saying that Ghosts never acheive that state without help from
>the living ..
>*WHAT !??!*  Loose all those lovely traditions of hauntings because of a
>horrible crime, or unfulfilled life, and so on ?  If there's one gripe I have
>with RQ it's that it falls down heavily on the supernatural.  I want fear,
>terror, dread of the dark !  If it's just another monster to bash, that flies
>out of the window as the players start to figure out how to kill it.

Sorry, it *wasn't* me who said the bit about Ghosts! (Someone must have quoted
me before saying it, or something. You got the wrong man, guv. Would the
real culprit now stand up..?) I'm quite happy to have "naturally" occurring
ghosts. Would you say the process was voluntary?
I'd like to have a better idea of the conditions under which a haunting will
take place.
__

>And in a previous letter I mentioned using physical skills on the spirit plane.
>This is because I want to send players into there and not have them torn apart
>by the first bunny rabbit...

I'm all for PCs adventuring on the spirit plane, but I don't think it should
be made too easy for them. New arrivals on the spirit plane will almost
be as helpless has new-born mundane creatures. SP adventuring is really for
Professionals: ie Shamans. If, somehow, other PCs could enter the SP then
they would be wise to travel under the protection of a Shaman (the same
way that Shamans are protected by warriors on the Mundane Plane).
Just 'cos a PC is a mighty warrior in the Mundane world, I don't see why
he should be equally mighty in the spirit world. Quite the opposite IMHO.
A *group* of PC spirits who are willing to cooperate could be quite powerful - 
they could gang up on solitary Spirit entities. I'm not sure of the mechanics
for multiple spirit combats. Anyone got any ideas?
I think spirit alliances could make interesting politics on the SP. Why do
spirits have to be solitary? I think intelligent spirits would band together
for mutual security etc.
[BTW I think bunny spirits would be as non-aggressive as corporeal bunnies:-)]

>The idea of 'outer' and 'inner` spirit planes completely escapes me - why not
>just regionalise the SP, like terrain has places where bad dudes hang out ?

Yup, I agree. IMO Outer & Inner are just abstract concepts used in the
encounter tables to simulate different geographical regions of the SP.

>And re: Colin Watson's comment 'what happens if you break an object with a
>spirit in into pieces - does each pebble have a spirit ?'
>If I break you into pieces, does your hand have a spirit ?  Your nose ?  No.

This is exactly my problem. I can understand that a human spirit stays with
the "living part" of a body. But what is the "living part" of a place?
(Well, I guess you could say that the living part of a place is where the
spirit is! So some, special, Mundane features might appear on the Spirit
Plane - but not every rock and stream... I could almost go for this).

>I agree, not every inanimate thing has to have a spirit, but an awful lot of
>cultures early on in our history did think so.

But they weren't playing RQIII. :-)

>So if my Telmori believes that
>the little pebble he sat on earlier has a spirit and my Sorcerer thinks it
>doesn't, who's right ?

This is the crux of the matter. Obviously, from a players point of view, it's
good to have differing viewpoints to roleplay. But what's the Objective Truth
of the matter? From a GMing perspective its useful to have an Objective
view of the way things *Really Are*. Mind you, in mythic Glorantha it's
possible that there is no Objective Truth - maybe each subjective belief is
correct. So the Telmori and the Sorcerer are both right.
It all depends what you believe.
I hate this kinda thing. :-)

_____
Dave (Cake):
>I prefer to think that most of the
>summonable creatures with bodies are summoned from the GP, and that the GP has
>some sort of physical existence.

Yes, I heartily agree with this.

________________
Mounted combat (charging):
The rules do have some notes about Opportunity Strikes: where you hit moving
targets as they pass by (a lot sooner than your normal SR). This should allow
the victim of a charge to strike back (assuming he's not crippled).
I agree you have to use a certain amout of common sense when dealing with
SRs and Statements of Intent.

_____
Simon (Hibbs):
>2. Of course rivers and mountains have spirits! These spirits/deities
>are the Mythical consequence of the _worldly_function_ of the thing, and are
>_not_ simply a result of it's mere material substance. They do not inhabit
>the stream/mountain in the way that a living being does, though they may
>manifest within it at times.

So, what do they look like on the spirit plane? How do they APPear? Do they
look like Mountains & Rivers? Or not? This is what I'd like to get ironed out.
____
Paul (Reilly):
>  Dave Cake brings up the example of River Gods & spirits as creatures that
>exist on the God and Mundane planes simultaneously.
>  Many gods are like this.
>  Orlanth's body is made of  the great circulating winds of Glorantha.
>  Yelm IS the Sun.

This is another thing that I can't reconcile with The Compromise. In Theory
the Gods are bound not to interact directly with mortals. But what about
someone who dies from severe sunstroke? Yelm IS the Sun. Yelm killed them.
Directly. Yelm gets a 15 yard penalty for unnecessary roughness?

Some people *believe* Yelm IS the sun. But that don't necessarily make it so.
Maybe he's really only the Sun in the God Plane?
_________________
Protective Circle:
>Somebody replied to my solicitation for comment on Protective Circle.

'twas I.

>Why would the caster want to make the intensity of the Prot 
>Circle *larger* than the radius of the inscribed circle, if the
>effect cannot extend beyond the circle?

I was just assuming that all the multispelled spells would be of the same
intensity. I guess this isn't necessarily the case. It might be worth
making this explicit.

>CW>to scribe the circle (say DEX SR + 2 SR per m radius)."
>Hmmm....this doesn't quite work as a formula. The result is that 
>the larger the circle, the faster the sorcerer can move while 
>inscribing it!
???
>Dex SR + 2SR per M of DIAMETER is what we need.

Radius, Diameter, Circumference what's the odds? They're all proportional.
I don't really mind the how you detail the formula, so long as it's simple.
___
CW.

---------------------

From: DScott@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott)
Subject: Yanafal & Etyries
Message-ID: <9310061950.aa27569@post.demon.co.uk>
Date: 6 Oct 93 19:49:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1941

Dear Digesters,

Robert McArthur said in X-RQ-ID: 1899;

>no other cult besides Humakt and Yanafals has reusable sever spirit, even
>though many are deeply associated with the death rune.

Since when has Yanafal had reusable sever spirit? In Cults of Prax p.9 and 
Cults of Terror p.9, devising rune spells it says; To quote

Humakt, the premier Death god, has the reusable spell Sever Spirit available 
for a sacrifice of 3 points of Power. Therefore no Death or War god should be 
able to do Mass Death with a 2- or 3-point spell. In fact, Humakt is the only 
Death god able to give his worshippers this as a reusable spell.

Both go on to say that EVERYONE else is one use, even other Death Gods - 
Yanafal Tarnils is no different.

>The idea that the 7 fought and injured/killed their counterparts on the 
>heroplane and then stole some of their powers dosen't really wash since they 
>have ALL of the powers of
>the original god.

The same can be said for Resurection from the Seven mothers - they are the only 
cult to have reproduced resurection and it is one use.

Etyries is NOT the same as the the cult of Issaries the magic is different. The 
spell trading that an Etyries priestess can do concerns only SPIRIT magic, only 
Issaries can trade rune spells.

The seven mothers are just shadows of the real thing - the comparisons is a 
conveniant model to aid our thinking. This idea can be followed through other 
pantheons - but I sure that most people wouldn't say that just as Orlanth, Red 
Goddess & Yelm are the heads of their respective pantheons they are the same or 
Yanafal = Humakt = Polaris.

-----

Tom Zunder said in X-RQ-ID:1895;

>I'm appalled by the idea that people want to adopt the traits/passions
>from Pendragon.

Have you ever played Pendragon, if so how did you find the traits in that game? 
Personally I love them and use them in my Glorantha games, although changed to 
percentages. They ADD to the roleplaying, players are keen to use them to 
characterise their characters more. They are a play aid, not a mechanistic 
system for the sake of it.

Speaking of Pendragon. I just got my copy of Pendragon 4 yesterday. The magic 
system is inspired, and can be adapted to Glorantha with a little work. Looks 
like I will be a Pendragon Pass player from now on. Any others inspired by this 
new work?

-----

Newton Hughes said in X-RQ-ID:1906

>A couple more apparent errors in the Dorastor book: There's a Humakti 
>(Platewalker) listed as having the Berserk spell.

Is that a problem? Take a look in Tales of the Reaching Moon issue 5 (If you 
haven't got it contact your local tales rep NOW - there are reprints available)
In the (full) cult write up of Humakt it says; To quote

(Humakt) SPECIAL DIVINE MAGIC: Berserk*, Detect Truth, Morale, Oath, Sever 
Spirit*, Shield, Truesword, Turn Undead.

NOTE: *Berserk and Sever Spirit should only be used after careful consideration 
on the part of the Sword.

Now a far bigger error - where are his illumination abilities listed, nice long 
essay at the back of Dorastor and no stats for illuminates!

-----

Finished ranting,

David.

BTY who noticed yesterday that two different contributers contributed identical 
items - weird things are happening :-) 

Sandwiches on the edge of time
DScott@Snail.demon.co.uk 158.152.16.30


---------------------

From: allan@tcrystal.gla.ac.uk (Allan Henderson)
Subject: Any players in the Glasgow area
Message-ID: <29382.9310071621@sushi.tcrystal.tcrystal.glasgow.ac.uk>
Date: 7 Oct 93 16:21:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1942

Hi,

Having recently returned to the Glasgow area I find myself a bit short of other
players. If anyone can help, either you live in the Glasgow area or you know of
players in the Glasgow area then please let me know. 

		Many thanks,
				Allan

---------------------

From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: Spells, Gods, Sprits, Zebras ....
Message-ID: <9310071626.AA25835@Sun.COM>
Date: 7 Oct 93 18:27:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1943

I wanted to reply to quite a few points raised recently ...

PROTECTIVE CIRCLE

>If I wanted to be really rune-wacky about the form of the circle, I 
>could define the hemisphere as a geodesic dome, made up of 
>thousands of triangular Law Runes, of course.

Why not ... ? If they are small enough there would be no practical difference
and it would be more fun.

SPIRITS and POW

I'm not keen on the current spirit plane and POW gain rules. I would prefer it
if POW gain were restricted to the following (these are very rough ideas):

1) reducing a spirit's MP to zero. This allows you to either steal a spell or
attempt to steal POW (as per POW gain rules i.e. 5% for a spirit) or
possess/bind a victim (as appropriate). If the latter option is taken the gain
is immediate and the POW comes from the spirit. I wouldn't allow bound spirits
or mundane plane entities (i.e. people) to lose POW this way. I would probably
also argue that they couldn't do this frequently without physical strain (no
more than once a week without losing CON?).

2) Overcoming a stronger opponent in MP vs. MP resistance (excluding spirit
combat).

The first has the advantage of preventing players from getting POW gain rolls
from learning spells (under RQIV they would still improve in Sprit Combat skill
though). It may also remove the need for POW fading on the Spirit Plane.

SPIRIT MOVEMENT

I am also tempted to ignore the POW = movement rule on the spirit plane (is
that the current rule? I'm not sure) ... why shouldn't a small fast spirit be
able to `run' away from a big slow one. I'm sure Vrok spirits think they are
faster than turtle spirits.

ZEBRA RIDER vs. STORM BULL

I think my Games Workshop RQ III rules have an `opportunity' attack listed. If
someone runs past you and you have a free attack you get to hit them on the
strike rank they run past (I believe). Unless you have a long weapon hitting
the rider may be tricky. If you dodge the lance this may prejudice your attack
to the rider (-25% ?). Of course a true berserk might dodge under the horse and
hamstring it as it went over him or her.

WHAT IS A GOD?

Someone asked what a God was. Three things that may define a god:

1) large POW
2) entities that receive (lots of) worship
3) entities involved in and bound by the compromise

As always there are possible exceptions (the Red Goddess?) that will continue
to entertain scholars (c.f. MINARATH PURPLE's WHY THE RED GODDESS IS NOT REALLY
A DEITY). Does this mean there were no Gods before time?

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN AN INITIATE DIES?

According to various write-ups Issaries guides lightbringers to the placed
promised them by their god. Orlanth will fetch his worshippers from far flungs
lands. Storm Bull will even go to the edge of the Cosmos. There can't be many
big spirits capable of `bushwacking' these guys ... Note also that Thanatari,
Bloody Tusk and other ritual spirit takers have to trap the spirit in the body
(presumably to prevent it reaching the spirit plane where among other things
initiates will have some protection).

THANATARI RITUALS

... which starts me off on a tangent. I just reread the very gross Thanatar
writeup. I wanted to check how Thanatari heads regained special cult divine
magic (answer: when the priest worships at a shrine they get their spells back
too). I noticed that several Thanatari in AH publications have Humakti and
other Rune Level heads. How? Humakti Rune Lords DI on 1D10. If their power is
over 11 they automatically succeed. I know Humakti wouldn't teleport out, but I
believe they might be able to prevent the ritual in several ways (use your
imagination). Besides Humakt must really hate Thanatari rituals. The same goes
for other Rune Levels with 1D10 DI. One explanation I have is that the Humakti
was rendered unconscious or captured using Control/Dominate Human (or similar).
Personally I allow unconscious/controlled characters to DI (but not everyone
would). Another explanation is that you can't DI on holy sites not sacred to
your God (not a rule I've ever had to decide on). Alternatively, the Thanatari
may be able to prevent DI attempts in some way (maybe a heroquest power). Am I
missing something ...? My solution ... ignore Rune Level heads or keep rolling
1D10 subtract the result from the head's POW until it goes below 11 (assumes
that the npc DI'd but failed to fight his or her way out). The former is better
if you don't want an npc to have reusable Sever Spirit.

HEROQUESTS

To Nick - we do seem to be broadly in agreement on this (strange). Those who
object to commonplace or everyday heroquests should look at KoS (even if Greg
is wrong). Myths are the foundation of everyday Gloranthan life (IMVeryHO).
That's why heroquesting alters the mundane world. (... and I was joking about
the big rock).

I wanted to say more but have run out of time (and please note that this was
written sans rulebook).

Thom