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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 09 Oct 1993, part 2
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Re: Spirits, Gods, Mounted Combat
Message-ID:
Date: 8 Oct 93 19:13:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1953
David Dunham in X-RQ-ID: 1938
>>From: Brian Curley
>>I think your interpretation of mounted combat sounds good. It's also extremely
>>realistic. The SB player should have known that this Zebra Rider's mount was
>>far faster than he was and there was no way he was going to get a strike in before
>>the ZR blew by him.
>Pardon, but someone has to ride by amazingly fast for me to be unable to
>swing at them. That may be because I'm inconsiderate enough not to time my
>swings to once/melee round :-)
Also when you jump aside to avoid that nasty lance tip of his? Or are you
rolling off, jumping up and deal out your hit in the short time the zebra
needs to move on elance length? - At least that would have been my
rationalisation. Had he parried instead, I'd have given him his blow -
provided he was still standing.
>>From: gal502@cscgpo.anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
>> Barntar: what detail is available about Barntar, the Orlanthi
>>Plough/Farmer God, outside of KoS? I may be starting to GM
>>Dorastor: Land of the Big Laughs in a few weeks and I suspect
>>that there will some PC Orlanthi farmers in the party. If there
>>is no detail available I will play Barntar initiates as male
>>Ernalda initiates: men can rise to acolyte in the Ernalda cult.
>Don't know of any (Nick probably does), but in my non-Gloranthan game, I
>had a plow god closely associated with the barley goddess. The men were
>responsible for planting and harvesting, the women for tending.
Anyone volunteering to provide a writeup? There might be several versions,
like that sacrificial Earth cult of Holay (the "sacred kings list" from KoS),
the standard Orlanthi farmer deity, "Saint Barntar" in Heortland, etc.
To use Barntar as a subcult of Ernalda makes sense, too - look at Karrg and
Kyger Litor in comparison.
Colin Watson in X-RQ-ID: 1940
>Geoff:
>> And transferral the other way (i.e. Demonic appearence) has the same problems.
>> But note - the use of energy to create mass might account for the temperature
>> drop/rise present at so many mythical happenings. Anyone help me out of this
>> hole I've dug myself ?
>I'd say when demons are summoned from the spirit plane some substance (SIZ)
>must be provided for them to form bodies (just like elementals).
>Demons summoned from the God Plane might already have bodies however.
Or they use magic to create a temporal reality - commonly known as phantom or
illusion. Similar to spirit magic's visibility, let's call it tangibility.
>>re: Colin Watson saying that Ghosts never acheive that state without help from
>>the living ..
>>*WHAT !??!* Loose all those lovely traditions of hauntings because of a
>>horrible crime, or unfulfilled life, and so on ? If there's one gripe I have
>>with RQ it's that it falls down heavily on the supernatural. I want fear,
>>terror, dread of the dark ! If it's just another monster to bash, that flies
>>out of the window as the players start to figure out how to kill it.
>Sorry, it *wasn't* me who said the bit about Ghosts! (Someone must have quoted
>me before saying it, or something. You got the wrong man, guv. Would the
>real culprit now stand up..?)
Yes, here, I'd think that was me.
a) Note that the above is perfectly true for Wraiths, not Ghosts, under
RQ3 rules definition.
b) There are quasi-ghosts like the ikiryu from Land of Ninja which
consist of dreams or emotions, the originator needn't (mustn't) even be
dead.
c) There are succubi that are created from terrible crimes, and possibly
similar horrors as well.
d) Dread of the dark: Look at shadows, and their powers. Or move into one...
So all you have to take in mind is that "ghost" used in RQ-rules slang has
a definition, while "ghost" used in play language is synonymous with "haunt",
"wraith", "angry" "spirit", maybe even "demon", or harmlessly "apparition".
Just a question which language one uses.
BTW, "help from the living" is nicely put...
>I'm quite happy to have "naturally" occurring
>ghosts. Would you say the process was voluntary?
In some instances, as unfulfilled love/hate, it might be. But why not have
the dead body move around, like a revenant or Draugr from Vikings? Fear
of these must have been very real, since about one third of the burials
at Hedeby had large boulders placed on the breast of the deceased.
>I'd like to have a better idea of the conditions under which a haunting will
>take place.
You might give the dying character a chance similar to DI to create some
form of haunting. In severe cases you might increase the multiplyer.
Might give nice scenarios when a person unjustly slain by PCs comes back
to haunt them or some other place.
>>And in a previous letter I mentioned using physical skills on the spirit plane.
>>This is because I want to send players into there and not have them torn apart
>>by the first bunny rabbit...
>I'm all for PCs adventuring on the spirit plane, but I don't think it should
>be made too easy for them. New arrivals on the spirit plane will almost
>be as helpless has new-born mundane creatures. SP adventuring is really for
>Professionals: ie Shamans. If, somehow, other PCs could enter the SP then
>they would be wise to travel under the protection of a Shaman (the same
>way that Shamans are protected by warriors on the Mundane Plane).
Yes, it would be nice if shamans could take other characters by the
hand and lead them through the spirit realm. One book which I use as
reference for shamanic behaviour, "Wyrd", described how an anglosaxon
monk who was sent out to report about the natives magic became the
pupil of the magician, and finally became a shaman himself, complete
with awakening a fetch. (I forgot the author's name, but can look this
up, if there's interest.)
This still leaves the question what makes a shaman a specialist? If it
isn't just raw POW and a fetch, then some skill is involved. But that's
for the RQ4 list...
>Just 'cos a PC is a mighty warrior in the Mundane world, I don't see why
>he should be equally mighty in the spirit world. Quite the opposite IMHO.
>A *group* of PC spirits who are willing to cooperate could be quite powerful -
>they could gang up on solitary Spirit entities. I'm not sure of the mechanics
>for multiple spirit combats. Anyone got any ideas?
Spirit combat as it is now (in RQ3) consists of two opponents casting
automatic MP-Disruptions at each other for no MP-cost. A bit dull, but
there are people who don't think that skill is involved in anything
magical. If you take this example, there are several people in each
party casting disruptions at members of the opponent's party. Resolve
the spirit combat like you would this magical conflict.
>I think spirit alliances could make interesting politics on the SP. Why do
>spirits have to be solitary? I think intelligent spirits would band together
>for mutual security etc.
Bands of feral sprits ambushing the unprepared? Or peaceful villages
with the spirit of a thorn hedge around them?
I think we need an agreement about the character of the spirit plane
first. But then if anyone gets into conflict with a reasonably owerful
shaman, they'll probably encounter a bunch of spirits acting in unison.
>>The idea of 'outer' and 'inner` spirit planes completely escapes me - why not
>>just regionalise the SP, like terrain has places where bad dudes hang out ?
>Yup, I agree. IMO Outer & Inner are just abstract concepts used in the
>encounter tables to simulate different geographical regions of the SP.
I use this concept to indicate the distance from the material plane(s). And
there might be a far end where the Horned Man resides and rules the spirit
world, and where the Bad Man will be encountered every time; this would be
the place the shamans go upon "initiation".
>Simon (Hibbs):
>>2. Of course rivers and mountains have spirits! These spirits/deities
>>are the Mythical consequence of the _worldly_function_ of the thing, and are
>>_not_ simply a result of it's mere material substance. They do not inhabit
>>the stream/mountain in the way that a living being does, though they may
>>manifest within it at times.
>So, what do they look like on the spirit plane? How do they APPear? Do they
>look like Mountains & Rivers? Or not? This is what I'd like to get ironed out.
According to Nick, in a Worship service or Heroquest a deity appears as
the worshipper perceives it. So can we expand this to the spirit plane?
What does a bunny your character thinks is a lion look like?
>Paul (Reilly):
>> Dave Cake brings up the example of River Gods & spirits as creatures that
>>exist on the God and Mundane planes simultaneously.
>> Many gods are like this.
>> Orlanth's body is made of the great circulating winds of Glorantha.
>> Yelm IS the Sun.
>This is another thing that I can't reconcile with The Compromise. In Theory
>the Gods are bound not to interact directly with mortals. But what about
>someone who dies from severe sunstroke? Yelm IS the Sun. Yelm killed them.
>Directly. Yelm gets a 15 yard penalty for unnecessary roughness?
No, because this "power" was agreed on in the compromise. Orlanth's
storm body may wreck in accordance with the compromise, because that's
what the storm is supposed to do.
>Some people *believe* Yelm IS the sun. But that don't necessarily make it so.
>Maybe he's really only the Sun in the God Plane?
Well, Yelm is th sole deity of the sun, and so is Elmal, and so is
Somash, and so is Yu-kargzant, ... Read Terry Pratchett's "Pyramids" to
get the image of multiple deities inhabiting the same sun, Corgi
edition p. 180 ff :-)
Thom Baguley in X-RQ-ID: 1943
>WHAT IS A GOD?
>Someone asked what a God was. Three things that may define a god:
>1) large POW
>2) entities that receive (lots of) worship
>3) entities involved in and bound by the compromise
and 4) incorporates some major feature of Glorantha, or some (howsoever
small) power.
>As always there are possible exceptions (the Red Goddess?) that will continue
>to entertain scholars (c.f. MINARYTH PURPLE's WHY THE RED GODDESS IS NOT REALLY
>A DEITY). Does this mean there were no Gods before time?
No. The above defines a deity _since the compromise_. Before... - I
don't know how much importance worship had, or whether there was some
compromise-like agreement before the LBQ, as there was a quasi-time
(how else could certain civilizations count generations, years etc.?).
Another important thing to define a deity in God-Time certainly was its
ability to show up and bash unbelievers personally ;-)
>HEROQUESTS
>To Nick - we do seem to be broadly in agreement on this (strange). Those who
>object to commonplace or everyday heroquests should look at KoS (even if Greg
>is wrong). Myths are the foundation of everyday Gloranthan life (IMVeryHO).
>That's why heroquesting alters the mundane world. (... and I was joking about
>the big rock).
I still say the difference between an everyday habit and a heroquest is
the uses of magic. Let the opponents in an Orlanthi-Yelmalio riddle
contest sacrifice MP to their deity in a short prayer, and you get
something like a worship, close enough to a mini-heroquest. If it's
just pretending, then that's what it is, pretending. There need to be
deep emotions or magic involved to "boost reality" (by reenacting the
event, reality is strengthened against the void of chaos).
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: mmlab!cookec%max@uunet.UU.NET (Kiliki)
Subject: Humakt
Message-ID: <9310082101.AA25360@relay2.UU.NET>
Date: 8 Oct 93 20:58:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1954
Please help me out, I'm looking for any and all information on Humakt.
I understand TOTRM#5 has a writeup, is it still in print? Can I just send
a check to David Gadbois(USA)? How else can I get a copy (and a sub to TOTRM)?
Are there any other sources besides GoG? I'm looking for a cult writeup
similar to those in RoC...
--
| Chris Cooke - cookec@mmlab.UUCP cookec@mml.mmc.com |
---------------------
From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes)
Subject: shitsurei shimas - humakt; spirit combat skill
Message-ID: <9310082323.AA18529@Sun.COM>
Date: 8 Oct 93 23:05:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1955
Thanks to everyone for informing me of the ToTRM updated Humakt write-
up; however, it doesn't change my opinion that allowing the Berserk
spell is an error (just because the RQ Gods wrote it, well, everything Greg
says is wrong, right?) The moment when you expect to face your god up
close is not the time to change the habits of a lifetime, namely, com-
mitment to self-discipline, unemotionalness, and precision swordplay.
To compensate for getting rid of Berserk I'd change Sever Spirit from its
present form as a 1-shot, ranged Finger o' Death to a temporal weapon-en-
hancing spell.
As for spirit combat - thus far I have avoided entering the argument,
but one question comes to mind: if the rq4 spirit combat skills are
allowed, wouldn't spirits forget them the way they forget the rest of
their skills (pretty quickly), and if not, every spirit's s.p. skills
would eventually go through the roof (you thought the POW accumulation
problem was bad. . . )
Newton