From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 12 Oct 1993, part 1
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk
The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.
Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the
Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying.
Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at
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Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:
RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)
---------------------
From: stormbull@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tim Westlake)
Subject: Circles and grins
Message-ID:
Date: 9 Oct 93 14:16:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1956
Thom Baguley :
> to the rider (-25% ?). Of course a true berserk might dodge under the
> horse and hamstring it as it went over him or her.
[fx: GRIN!!]
---------------------
Magic Circles
[NB : Rule book not to hand but ....] Whats wrong with 360x360x360
degree circles (spheres?)? ie that also go underground? If the
protection is going to dome over the top of the mage then why not
underneath as well? Or is this a way to circumvent the protection? [fx:
unpacks shovel] In order for circles to be of use in defending fixed
positions such as castles then they would have to work through
soil/dirt/rock as well, otherwise attackers would tunnel up into them.
Tim
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| StormBull@cix.compulink.co.uk | "The reason God was able to create |
| Westlake_Tim@Tandem.com | the world in 7 days was that he |
|-------------------------------| didnt have to worry about the |
| I am not a free man, | _ | installed base." |
| I am a Resource! | V @ + | - Enzo Torresi |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail)
Subject: Subcults/hero cults
Message-ID: <199310091745.AA00206@radiomail.net>
Date: 9 Oct 93 17:45:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1957
According to the official Humakt writeup in TotRM 5, "every temple ... has
a shrine to at least one hero."
So how exactly do subcults work? Can you sacrifice for Strongblade (Hiia
Swordsman subcult) simply by going to a Humakt temple in the Grazelands? Or
do you have to sacrifice POW to join Hiia's subcult? Can you belong to
multiple subcults of the same religion?
The Indrodar Greydog subcult suggests that membership may require quests or
pledges.
By contrast, the Ernalda writeup in RQ3 suggests that subcults (in
Ernalda's case, the grain goddesses) can be joined separately, as a normal
cult. But if it's joined as a subcult, it's automatic.
I suspect the correct answer is, "It varies," but I'm curious as to
everyone's guidelines.
How do subcults keep going (since they're not as likely to have the
requisite number of initiates -- this is something I plan to follow up in a
temple size discussion soon)?
David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: yet another spirit post
Message-ID: <9310091810.AA13962@condor>
Date: 9 Oct 93 18:10:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1958
_______________
Steven E Barnes:
>Clearly, disembodied spirits can attack embodied spirits (i.e. people),
*Only* if the disembodied spirits become visible (by casting Visibility etc).
>therefore, all spirits must be visible from the spirit plane.
I disagree (for the above reason). Normal folk cannot be attacked by
spirits from the spirit plane (otherwise it would be happening all the time
as it does with shamans who are half on the spirit plane).
>We've
>also played that spirits bound into objects could view the spirit
>plane as well.
I'd say the spirits of corporeal entities cannot see the spirit plane (usually).
Hence, neither can bound spirits (their binding effectively gives them
corporeal form). Furthermore, bound spirits cannot attack disembodied
spirits.
_____
Greg:
>You ask whether gods' physical manifestation, such as Yelm as the Sun,
>violates the Compromise, since they still obtrude upon the world. It seems
>to me that the Compromise guaranteed each diety's dominion over his or her
>domain, and that for many gods, this domain is a very real thing (Sun, Earth,
>Storm, Winter, etc). So, Yelm killing you with Sunstroke is legal under the
>COmpromise.
Seems like a short step between this and Yelm SunSpearing folk who he
doesn't like. *That's* within his domain too. :-)
But I guess the difference is sufficient enough to keep the gods in line.
[...stuff about combat between big spirits...]
>an entity of POW 1000
>will always (excluding statistical miracles) lose to a being of POW 1010 --
>even though there is only a 1% difference between them!!! This makes NO
>sense to me. It is a problem even at relatively low levels of POW (tho
>levels never attained by players.... say, 50 vs 60 POW).
[...etc..]
Fair point. There wouldn't be a problem if spirits were limited to species
maximum POW through spirit combat. (There would be little motivation for big
spirits to fight because there would be nothing to gain).
Even as it stands, I don't think things are too bad: it means that spirits
will generally only pick on things in their own "power-band". (I assume that
spirits don't gain POW unless their victim had less than 10 points fewer
than them. Again, no motivation to pick on weaklings.)
I think squabbles between big spirits should be infrequent. They should
be more concerned with rallying worshippers (however they do that).
>Any ideas for fixes that get at the proportional values of STATS? I have
>one, but it is a fairly radical departure from RQ, so I will post it only if
>interest is shown...
Aw, go on. I think we'd like to hear it. :-)
_____
Joerg:
>>I'd say when demons are summoned from the spirit plane some substance (SIZ)
>>must be provided for them to form bodies (just like elementals).
>>Demons summoned from the God Plane might already have bodies however.
>
>Or they use magic to create a temporal reality - commonly known as phantom or
>illusion. Similar to spirit magic's visibility, let's call it tangibility.
Sounds interesting. I think Tangibility should be a "big" spell to cast
(considering the cost of equivalent illusions). Say, stackable spirit magic
where each point gives 1 SIZ (2?) of tangible form; or divine magic where
each point gives 5 SIZ of tangible form (no concentration required).
Well worth adding some Extension to.
I like the principle though.
>>I think spirit alliances could make interesting politics on the SP. Why do
>>spirits have to be solitary? I think intelligent spirits would band together
>>for mutual security etc.
>
>Bands of feral sprits ambushing the unprepared? Or peaceful villages
>with the spirit of a thorn hedge around them?
The former seems a reasonable starting place, but I think communities of
intelligent spirits would police their "home" areas in order to prevent
such banditry. Much like human communities on the Mundane Plane.
I dunno about the thorn hedge idea. I think physical defences are somewhat
useless (or rather impossible) on the spirit plane: spirits can pass through
walls remember; even if the wall is another spirit. I can't think what
the best defence would be. Magic of some sort probably - MPs are the bricks
and mortar of the Spirit World.
I think the socio-political setup in the spirit plane would be radically
different from the Mundane world due to the lack of physical property &
real estate.
___
CW.
---------------------
From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes)
Subject: re: zebras & stuff
Message-ID: <9310092125.AA08658@Sun.COM>
Date: 9 Oct 93 21:09:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1959
Greg Fried asks about the Resistance Table: it seems to me that it
was designed not so much to handle a narrow range of values, but that
it was designed for characteristics like STR and SIZ, which double in
scale with every 8 points. So if you have two giants, one SIZ 50 and
the other SIZ 60, the bigger one is over twice as massive as the other,
and the resistance table reflects this.
Maybe the designers intended that POW doubles every 8 points, too,
while MPs increase linearly, just as SIZ doubles the creature's
weight every 8 points, while damage mods and height increase linearly.
About the Zebra rider example being kicked around: the Opportunity
Melee rule doesn't work here. If I recall correctly the Uroxi has
DEX SR 4, and all opportunity melee does is allow him to disregard
his SIZ SRM, leaving him swinging at SR 6, by which time the Zebra
rider is past him. What's bizarre about the SR rules here is that
whether the Uroxi gets his licks in depends on just how far away the
Zebra rider was from him at the start of the round: had the Zebra
rider started at 56 m away instead of 40, then the Uroxi would get to
hit back (if the Zebra started at 48 m then the Uroxi could use oppor-
tunity melee to hit him).
Newton
---------------------
From: wadsley@chipmunk.cita.utoronto.ca
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 09 Oct 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9310100012.AA08080@hawk.cita.utoronto.ca>
Date: 10 Oct 93 00:12:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1960
Greg Fried there ( to Allan ):
In your discussion of spirits on the SP getting really huge, you touch upon
an issue that really bothers me and that I have raised in the past, to no
avail. You mention that a spirit with 1000 POW will have trouble finding
another spirit in the range 990-1010 to get a POW gain check from. Notice an
absolutely absurd implication of the current rules: an entity of POW 1000
will always (excluding statistical miracles) lose to a being of POW 1010 --
even though there is only a 1% difference between them!!! This makes NO
sense to me.
Any ideas for fixes that get at the proportional values of STATS?
I have a slighlty heretical fix which I used to combat
Stat vs. Stat problems. I looked at SIZ and
saw that it was logarithmic and decided that everything else should
be that way too. If I recall correctly, mass DOUBLES every 8 SIZ:
something like 8 SIZ=50 kg, 16 SIZ=100 kg, 24 SIZ=200 kg etc...
If you take a log scale for all stats then 1010 POW would mean just
over twice as much power as 1000 POW and thus the resistance table
begins to make sense at any POW ( or for any other stat ). This also
makes sense because 50 STR lifts 50 SIZ therefore STR must be
logarithmic and the way other characteristics are combined with
STR only makes good sense if they are logarithmic too.
Going down this road makes really huge stats look
ridiculously gross - but they are so it really rubs it in. For example:
if something has 100 SIZ then it is >1000x the mass of a human -
which is pretty severe. ( There is some sort of leveling out with
the SIZ vs. mass table at 100 SIZ, but it's a crock IMHO and is to
be ignored. )
In my view also - very few things should have more
than 20-30 dex. It's just unphysical. If the rules make big creatures
really clumsy then the rules need fixing ( or ignoring - which is
what I normally do ) - don't give them 100 dex to compensate! ( Yes -
I do hate centaurs :-) ).
As a GM I simply refuse to include 1000 SIZ or whatever creatures
in my campaign. They are completely ridiculous. A 200 SIZ creature
can eat anything on the map so why bother... I scale all such
creatures back to more sensible ( but still absolutely gross when
you think about it ) levels - often just a division by 5.
James Wadsley.
---------------------
From: awr0@aber.ac.uk
Subject: Hey People
Message-ID: <9310102012.AA20338@deca>
Date: 10 Oct 93 22:12:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1961
I have finally read through all the mail I have had from the net for the
last 3 months.People have been requesting the RQ material that I compiled from
the net. If you do not have this material as yet and are still interested,
I can copy the PC disks I have with the post scriptfiles on them and send
them via snail mail. Write to my address set out below. It would be better
to get the material via email, but I'm very rarely going to be using this
account. (It may even be deleted!)
If you write to me I will find out the shipping costs etc, and write back to
you. (It will be a couple of disks only so should be pretty cheap)
The address is
1 Calcot House
Cae Rhedyn
Croesyceiliog
Cwmbran
NP44 2BA
U.K.
Oh yeah me name is Adam Reynolds. The disks will contain the POSTSCRIPT only
---------------------
From: awr0@aber.ac.uk
Subject: Hey Guys
Message-ID: <9310102014.AA20393@deca>
Date: 10 Oct 93 22:14:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1962
Just collated together even more material...it's a 60 page postscript
document containing 7 cults and some of the stuff gleaned from the digest
in the last 3 months.....I'll mail it to Henk and let him sort out what
to do with it. I will not be logging on for another 2 weeks...ttfn
Adam
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <9310102314.AA15686@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 11 Oct 93 01:14:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1963
> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 17:33:26 EDT
> From: Mark S. c/o Tom Yates
> To: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
> Subject: unsubscribe
>
> Thank's for all the interesting RQ discussion. I loseing my internet
> access , so if you would be so kind as to unsubscribe me.
>
> Mark@slough.mit.edu
>
Farewell...
May the gods be with you.
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: RQ Digest
Message-ID: <9310110025.AA15976@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 11 Oct 93 02:25:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1964
>Hello,
>I'm new to modeming and to Internet and to "netsurfing" so any advice on
>how to access RQ info and discussions on the Nets would be appreciated.
>Thanks for taking the time to address this mail.
>Sincerely,
>David Schubert
I thought that the latest issue of "Tales..." mentioned the contact
address as (You may omit
the < and > characters.)
A general rule for "netsurfing": When establishing contact with a
mailing list, try to send to the "Listname"-request address first,
even when it is not explicitly mentioned.
You can subscribe to the mailing list by sending a message
to RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM with the following
text in the message body or Subject: line:
sub list your@addres.domain Full Name
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
| My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
---------------------
From: gal502@cscgpo.anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
Subject: Humakti Beserk and Westerm Women
Message-ID: <9310110407.AA26624@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>
Date: 11 Oct 93 14:07:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1965
DScott@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott) writes:
>Speaking of Pendragon. I just got my copy of Pendragon 4 yesterday. The magic
>system is inspired, and can be adapted to Glorantha with a little work. Looks
>like I will be a Pendragon Pass player from now on. Any others inspired by this
>new work?
I found P4 in Sydney on Friday. The system is excellent IMHO: it evokes
the kind of magician I like, the one who is powerful and subtle. I especially
like the way that non-magicians have no resistance to magic, which I think is
very in keeping with the genre. I also appreciate that they have actually used
the game's skill system in magic. I think a similar system would be nice for
RQ4 sorcery, with powerful but slow to cast spells.
However, my evil powergaming personality has already found things
I could exploit. :-(
C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes) writes:
>Thanks to everyone for informing me of the ToTRM updated Humakt write-
>up; however, it doesn't change my opinion that allowing the Berserk
>spell is an error (just because the RQ Gods wrote it, well, everything Greg
>says is wrong, right?) The moment when you expect to face your god up
>close is not the time to change the habits of a lifetime, namely, com-
>mitment to self-discipline, unemotionalness, and precision swordplay.
Which is presumably why they have to take great care in using it. I do
find the idea of Beserk Humakti a bit strange, but I think that one of
the spell's major advantages - the ability to ignore all wounds and fight
till you lose all your general HP - is something that Humakt would have.
How about this as a possible Humakti version of Beserk:
Battle Trance: 2 Points (Ranged, Temporal, Non-Stackable)
This spell removes all fear of Death and pain for the recipient, who
must accept the spell willingly. When the spell is cast the recipient
must declare some tactical aim, such as "Hold the Bridge" or "Take that
Hill". While the spell is in effect the recipient will fanatically attempt
to achieve the aim. This aim is often given by the recipient's commander.
The effect of the spell is similar to Beserk: the recipient can only be
stopped by general HP loss and is immune to incapacitation, unconciousness
and emotion and/or intellect affecting spells. Battle Trance differs in
that the recipients Attack skills are not doubled, but he/she can choose
to parry/dodge (but will only do so to achieve the aim of the Trance, not
just to protect his/her life). A fighter in Battle Trance cannot speak or
cast any spells (including Heal), however all Humakti in a unit who cast
Battle Trance with the same declared aim are in Mindlink: they act in
unison to achieve the aim.
Perhaps this should be a 3 point spell.
>To compensate for getting rid of Berserk I'd change Sever Spirit from its
>present form as a 1-shot, ranged Finger o' Death to a temporal weapon-en-
>hancing spell.
Yes, I agree: I don't like Sever Spirit as a Humakti Spell. Humakti
shouldn't use spells to kill people, they should use spells to make their
swords deadlier.
akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) writes:
>From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
>>Just into the off: How likely are female sorcerers/wizards in Western
>>societies (Hrestoli, Rokari)? What would be their role?
>I was under the impression that the Western societies were
>paternalistic. As such, female sorcerors would be frowned upon.
>Perhaps female sorcerors become "Witches".
The Western Status of Women:
The write-up of the Brithini in the Genertela pack says that all women
are meant to form a separate caste, but in practice are assigned to
the other castes, manily the Farmers. Those that are allowed to join
the other castes (ie there are some) suffer from prejudice and lack of
preferment, though the Brithini deny this.
Given the way that Rokari culture is portrayed (ie all that was wrong
about medieval Europe) then I would say women's status is poor there,
possibly near to the Dara Happans. The "What My Father Told Me" for the
Western Soldier is Rokari, and the general status of women in their
culture is appropriately medieval.
We don't know much about the Hrestoli at all, though all references to
powerful individuals in Loskalm are to men.
One interesting note about female sorcerers: Pendragon 4th edition says
there are more female magicians than males, so (since Greg wrote both
games) perhaps that's what we should have in the West.
Another point is that the Western religion should have nuns as well as
priests if it is modelled after medieval christianity. I think this may
only happen in Loskalm though, since the only female Saint is the mother
of Hrestol (can't remember her name offhand).
>Sounds like somebody screwed up. Unless I'm mistaken, a Thanatari
>Head is a form of undead. At least in RQ2, a Humakt initiate cannot
>be turned into an undead. But this reminds me of the Thanatari Basalisk
Technically no, it isn't an undead. The RQ3 definition of undead is very
narrow, it is a body kept alive after the soul has departed ie skeletons,
zombies, vampires, ghouls. All creatures with no POW. Thanatari heads have
suffered the Doom of Undying: they have not been allowed to die, and so the
spirit (POW) in still in the head.
That said, I think that the Humakti definition of Undead is a too narrow:
I would include things that should be dead but are kept alive by magic, like
Thanatari Heads (and people who have been resurrected :-))
Graeme Lindsell a.k.a gal502@huxley.anu.edu.au