From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 18 Oct 1993, part 2 Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Precedence: junk The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld) --------------------- From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk Subject: Mixed Bag Message-ID: <9310151643.aa00418@uk.ac.ed.castle> Date: 15 Oct 93 15:43:34 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2021 Colin Watson writes : ___ >BTW, is anyone else concerned about how crap 1-H swords are in RQ? You can >get a 1-H spear (which is near identical to a broadsword in game terms) for >a fraction of the cost. The only advantage I can see is the ability to >damage other weapons when you parry: but who ever parries with a 1-H sword? >It makes me wonder how swords ever became popular historically. Shouldn't >they have more AP at least? ---- I think swords were more popular than spears for several reasons. First, they are much easier to learn how to use effectively. Spears can only thrust and axes can only cut, swords can do both. Also, even if you have a shield, it is useful to be able to block with your weapon as well. Swords have no minimum range like spears, once you get inside a spear wielder's guard there is nothing he can do, similarly for axes which need space to swing. Swords can be carried more conveniently than either spears or axes and can be prepared quickly anyway. Of course, how you could weigh these factors into the game is a moot point. The fact that all Barbarian Belt (Theyalan/Orlanthi) characters get a base 30% in 1H Sword attack and parry is a bit tempting (Genertela pack players book). Clay Luther writes : ---- >GMs are not God Learners. >Munchkins, Anal Retentives, and Power Gamers are God Learners. ---- Agreed. All God Learners should be bannished forever to the RQIV list! Then we can concentrate on simple, usable rules just where they are needed. The POW/MP log scale debate is interesting, but no new rules are realy necessery. Perhaps the substance of MPs is naturaly unstable when concentrated together in one point and requires logarithmicaly more POW to stabilise it as the quantity of MPs increase linearly (Like similarly charged particles which mutualy repell and require exponentialy increasing force to contain). By the way, RQII stated that only POW above 18 could be sacrificed for rune magic. Perhaps this was because only the points of POW over 18 were a large enough quantity of POW to do the job. Furthermore the fact that stats are multiplied by 5% to give a saving throw (eg the POWx5% chance to cast spirit magic) does NOT imply a linear scale, far from it. Think about it in terms of the change in your chance of failing the roll. An increase from 50% to 55% only decreases the actual chance of failing by 1 in 10. An increase from 80% to 85% decreases your chance of failing by 1 in 4, a much bigger change in the actual odds involved. An increase from 90% to 95% HALVES your chance of failing the roll! This is a common misconception amongst many players and GMs. Linear modifiers to skills also have very non-linear effects on the actual odds of various outcomes. Overall the modifiers which are given in RQ3 are very well thought out though, a sensible mix of linear and proportional modifiers. Simon Hibbs --------------------- From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway) Subject: Humakti != Berserk Message-ID: <9310151856.AA03209@hp0.zycor.lgc.com> Date: 15 Oct 93 18:56:38 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2022 >> From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes) >> X-RQ-ID: 1955 >> >> Thanks to everyone for informing me of the ToTRM updated Humakt write- >> up; however, it doesn't change my opinion that allowing the Berserk >> spell is an error (just because the RQ Gods wrote it, well, everything Greg >> says is wrong, right?) The moment when you expect to face your god up >> close is not the time to change the habits of a lifetime, namely, com- >> mitment to self-discipline, unemotionalness, and precision swordplay. Berzerk, as typified by Zorak Zorani is used for mindless, senseless butchery. This doesn't fit my perception of Humakti, Yanafal Tarnils worshippers, et al. ( I don't see them with big drooling problems... ) I would suggest one of the following patches: 1. Delete Berzerk from the Humakti, et al, lists. Replace it with "Sword Trance" ( much like Babester Gor's "Axe Trance" ). 2. Rethink the "mindless" aspect of Berzerk. Swap the "mindless" for "selfless". And assume the "confusion" about friend & foe comes from being infused with DEATH. Don't make the Humakti drooling and slavering over the kill. Make him/her divorce feelings and _not_bother_ to differentiate friends from foes, after the foes are gone. Not that (s)he CAN not, but WILL not. (Knowing that Death == Truth, and nothing else matters. ) I can easily see a Humakti, seeing that his/her time has come, and knowing that (s)he has duties to perform beforehand, doing either. Feelings and thoughts clear from the mind, and the duty of separating begins, and all that. >> To compensate for getting rid of Berserk I'd change Sever Spirit from its >> present form as a 1-shot, ranged Finger o' Death to a temporal weapon-en- >> hancing spell. YOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! This seems a bit grim.... even for Humakti. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | john_medway@zycor.lgc.com | Landmark Graphics Corp | 512.292.2325 | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) Subject: Chalana Arroy's Resurrection: the peaceful LBQ-version Message-ID:Date: 16 Oct 93 11:37:15 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2023 All this resurrection stuff: In my (Non-Gloranthan) campaign nobody has so far even thought about resurrection. All casualties we've had so far remained dead, and since I'm inclined to play fair, all the opponents' casualties have, too. In Gloranthan contex I'd expect a resurrection to be an effort worth a mild version of a heroquest, nothing less (after all Tales 7 told us about the "Escape from Death" Quest every would-be hero ought to fulfil). So every try would involve the victim to be analogized with Yelm, and the CA healer collecting the other Lightbringers to go and find the victim in the Netherworld. It might be especially effective if the repentant slayer takes Orlanth's role in this ceremony - I can see a lot of roleplaying potential in finding the slayer and convincing him to participate! (This might also be a fine way to solve "murder out of red rage" cases like in Icelandic Sagas - the slayer is "condemned" to participate.) But even if the slayer cannot be convinced, the ritual can be performed. Someone else has to play the role of the slayer, maybe a Windlord has to take upon himself the role of the scapegoat - the Trickster won't, since he has his own role to play. I have to stop now - continue this on your own! -- -- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de --------------------- From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) Subject: White Healers in Talastar Message-ID: Date: 16 Oct 93 12:39:45 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2024 Graeme A Lindsell on Resurrection and Chalana Arroy in X-RQ-ID: 2008 >David Dunham writes: >>So I think Resurrect tends to be rare because Healers are rare, and there's >>no real problem. I dislike your other solutions. > Doubtful. The given percentage of High Healers in scenarios is high, >in the one city is high, and even in KoS is high. In the listing of >Specialized cults (p.255) the first thre are Issaries, Lhankhor Mhy >and Chalana Arroy. This is the same order as on p246, and since it >isn't alphabetical it implies these are the three most common of >these cults. The given example of a specialized priest on that page >is CA as well. I don't see where it says that CA is much less >common than the other specialized Lightbringer cults. I'd like to think that resurrections are pretty low on a not "unaligned" (adventuring) healer's list, when cure disease needs to be cast almost every day. The ten points of divine magic for Chalana Arroys on their way to priesthood ought to consist of several (3 to 4) Heal Wounds, at least one Heal body (3 points), in Lightbringer society at least one Cure Chaos Wound, at least 2 Comfort Songs, and a few Summon/Command Healing Spirit to fight diseases etc.. Regrow Limb and Restore Ability are already very special services, Resurrect would be very unusual. It's easier and more important to help the living, to resurrect the dead is only to be done when this individual has an important mission to fulfil. For this Runelords of friendly cults might qualify, if their cults back the request; rich merchants or rulers' relatives would need a lot of effort to rival this spiritual motivation. Player characters who want to gain access to resurrection in my game would have three possible approaches: 1) They DI and ask their god itself to intercede. The deity might either grant this by prompting his local representative (the cult) to urge the CAs, or (when it lies within the mythical powers of the cult) to resurrect the character on its own. 2) They become important enough Rune Ranks that the cult will intercede on their behalf. 3) One of them chooses to go the Healer's path, and learns it - most probably after a long pilgrimage on which the rest of the party has to accompagny the healer _and behave correspondingly_! > I still think a permanent POW loss associated with Resurrect would be >best. It is a permanent unnatural effect, which usually requires >some POW (Note: Sever Spirit and other killing spells are permament >_natural_ effects - people naturally drop dead all the time) A heroquest with a certain risk for healer and company would be as appropriate IMO. >>Hopefully the analysis above suggests the answer: there _is_ no nearby >>Chalana Arroy temple. (It's true that Chalana Arroy appears in the Orlanth, >>Yelm, and Pamalt pantheons, but I doubt she's real popular in any of 'em.) > Nope. The Queen is Gundrun the Golden, wife of Hakon the Swimmer, High >King of the Bilini (Talastar Papers, P12). In the Genertela book it >gives Talastar a population of 200,000 and claims that the Bilini are >the largest tribe in the southern part of Talastar. If a relatively >large Orlanthi kingdom doesn't have at least a minor Temple to one >of the Lightbringers than I doubt any exist anywhere. She also has >a Lunar Dee Zola priest as a personal physician. > To take the point one step further, it's says that she was crippled >by Wasting Disease (affects Str), not Creeping Chills as I said earlier. >_Ernalda_ gets Restore Health (Strength) (She get Restore (Con) too). In >the current RQ3 rules Gundrun would have been healed by them as easily by >Chalana Arroy ie a group of 10 Ernalda acolytes could have sacrificed >for 1 point of Restore (Strength) each, and she'd be fine. > Which was my original point: The current RQ3 rules don't reflect >Glorantha. Why not? Talastar in the time of Hakon the Swimmer was firmly in Malia's grip, thanks to the Lunar campaign of acceptace of Chaos. I would not think that a) in an area sprirtually pervaded by Malia any healing woould work fine, and b) that the Ernaldans might withhold their healing until the land is cleansed. Ernalda is neither the Chaos-and-Death-eating Babeester Gor, nor is she gentle Chalana. Politics are not beyond Earth temples. They might even have had one of the darker Earth deities utter a curse of incurability _until Malias grip on the region is released_! >Colin Watson writes: >>I'm afraid I won't be much help in this 'cos I don't like resurrection >>in principle. > Well I'd be inclined to remove it but KoS p255 says that CA healers >are sometimes able to raise the dead (but not every 4 days like the >current rules allow). Since Greg still thinks they can raise the dead >I think the rules should reflect it. Well, after the modification of regaining divine spells I use only a full priestes would theoretically be abe to do this. BUT: a full priestess has a gigantic parish to care for, and to regain lesser healing magic to save several lives will always have priority before an obscure demand to resurrect someone. Note also that the most effective way to resurrect someone is to use Heal Body first, and Resurrect then - this makes six points of divine magic, which could save as many lives! >>For starters, I think it should be in the domain of Death gods (I don't >>see resurrection as healing, I see it as power over Death, so I don't see why >>CA gets it at all). I think Death cults would only use it in *exceptional* >>circumstances. You're right about this if you look at Yelm and the Seven Mothers: both are cults whose deities had a "victorious" encounter with death. Other Death cults could have different versions of Resurrecton, such as Daka Fal's Summon/Incarnate Ancestor and Zorak Zoran's Create Ghost. > I think it was her reason to be on the Lightbringers Quest: she was trying >to discover how to raise the dead. I can see your reasoning concerning >Death and resurrection, but the only _real_ Death God - Humakt _ would >never allow it! And I think her spell is actually a version of this quest. See my separate posting on this. -- -- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de --------------------- From: stormbull@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tim Westlake) Subject: Resurection, swords & Stormbull weapons Message-ID: Date: 16 Oct 93 14:19:31 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2025 In-Reply-To: <9310150615.AA13115@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> mstrong : > Player characters need to fear death (or, in the case of Humakti, > respect it) and too much resurrection spoils this. Absolutly! Have you evere seen a high level D&D game with a couple of clerics or even access to a large temple? Two to three party deaths are to be expected and maybe even more but they would still expect to be brought back at the end of the scenario. Death is not allways final! > To be honest, the same is true of healing. If a there is too much > of it about, players will be less reluctant to get involved in fights > simply because they know that they can get healed afterwards. Agree again, for the above reasons! ----------------------------------- Colin Watson > It makes me wonder how swords ever became popular historically. Well, during the dark and middle ages, they weren't! They were only really used as dress weapons, real combat was done with things like flails and maces as these could effect people in heavy armour (chain etc). It wasnt until the advent of gunpowder when armour became unpopular that swords became widely used as real combat weapons. The holywood image of people in chain beating each other with swords is a bit of a falicy. ----------------------------------- Mike Leseth > Is there a cult weapon for StormBull Anything that can be used to KILL CHAOS!! Aside from that, what ever your tribal weapons are would be my best guess, either that or something big. Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | StormBull@cix.compulink.co.uk | "The reason God was able to create | | Westlake_Tim@Tandem.com | the world in 7 days was that he | |-------------------------------| didnt have to worry about the | | I am not a free man, | _ | installed base." | | I am a Resource! | V @ + | - Enzo Torresi | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) Subject: re: Runequest Daily Message-ID: <9310161615.AA01576@idcube.idsoftware.com> Date: 16 Oct 93 06:15:54 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2026 Hi. This is my first time in the Runequest Daily, so please go easy on me. I heard of its existence on Friday, and originally planned to slink around in the background, reading, but not writing. Alas, I've been sucked into responding on only my second day. And I've written a really long article, too. Gad. Chris Pearce sez: > Do herbivores eat elves? I've heard of it happening during the Winter Sleep of brown elves and pixies. Colin Watson sez: > BTW, is anyone else concerned about how crap 1-H swords are in RQ? You can > get a 1-H spear (which is near identical to a broadsword in game terms) for > a fraction of the cost. The only advantage I can see is the ability to > damage other weapons when you parry: but who ever parries with a 1-H sword? > It makes me wonder how swords ever became popular historically. Shouldn't > they have more AP at least? Hmm. The only real advantages are that swords are more convenient to carry and that they can be used to strike directly at a weapon to break it. Not much of an advantage, though. Speaking as one of the major culprits responsible for RQ III, I guess one quick and easy fix would be to decree that weapons damage parrying weapons at the same rate they do when parrying: i.e., spears would never damage your shields, axes and maces would do so on a special hit, swords would always damage the parrying weapon (all this assumes, of course, that the weapon penetrates the parrying weapon's armor). re: general comments on Resurrection My own feeling is that Death represents separation and finality, and life = continuity. Hence, a Death god is the last guy I'd expect to resurrect someone. Graeme feels that it shows "power over Death". I agree, but for that reason feel that it is inappropriate to a death god's priest -- who, in my campaigns, does not profess power over death, but glorifies death's power. I believe the rules state that you lose 1d3 off each non-spirit stat for each full day you stay dead. In my own campaign, I changed this to 1d3-1. The basic problem with easy Resurrection in Glorantha is the paucity of healers. Think of the magical ecology: among the Orlanthi maybe 1% of the population can afford to worship the extremely restrictive and onerous cult of Chalana Arroy (henceforth referred to as CA). Boldhome, with around 10,000 adult inhabitants, has 100 or so CA initiates. In a normal cult environment, maybe 2% of the adult worshipers are priests, Rune lords, or acolytes, but CA boasts more, because A) they receive much of their support from non-cultists and B) they don't tend to be killed off on their way to high rank. On the other hand, most CA cultists (being homebodies) only get POW checks once a year at worship time, or when they wrestle a spell spirit, which means they generally have less Rune magic than priests from more aggressive cults. In addition, CA has a lot of one-use spells, which also lowers her priest's total spell points. By my calculations (available on request), an average CA priest has maybe 10 spell points, with probably 1 Resurrection. I figure around 5-10% of the CA cult are full healers, with reusable magic, which gives us about 7 Healers in Boldhome, or 7 Resurrection spells. Casting Resurrection means 3 days wasted in tedious prayer for the healer, and they have other spells they must cast, too, plus other duties to attend to. I would expect a Healer to be able to cast a Resurrection (plus administer to her other duties) maybe once every 3 weeks under normal circumstances. This gives Boldhome access to around 80-90 Resurrection spells a year. Since she must overcome the target's spirit in combat, and the spell must succeed, too, maybe a third of her Resurrects fail, dropping the total down to 60 or so. In a town the size of Boldhome, given the prevalence of danger, I predict 300-500 deaths yearly. Of course, some 150 of these deaths are due to irreversible old age, which the Healers couldn't be expected to fix, but still, with 150-250 deaths a year to heal, and only 60 successful Resurrections, the Healers practice triage -- they MUST be discriminating about whom they fix, just like Chris Pearce says. Remember that many of the deaths are those of children, whom the Healers would give a higher priority to than a murderous adventurer. The bottom line is that a gamemaster is entitled to limit access to Resurrection to his players in Glorantha, if he wants. This is not intended to denigrate the CA cult in any way -- if anything, her rarity makes her even MORE important on Orlanthi councils. Mike Leseth sez: > Is there a cult weapon for Storm Bull, or can they use any weapon? First, a side note, since the Storm Bull cult has always been dear to my heart. The Storm Bull is god of Destruction, but in the cause of justice. Among the Sartarites, Orlanth is considered to have tamed the Storm Bull, and Orlanth Rex initiates are agreed to be the masters of the Berserks. In most tribe's fortresses, you'll see the king sitting flanked by his guards -- burly berserks, their rage held in check until the king needs such mindless service. Among the Praxians, there is no such limit held over the Storm Bulls. This is one of the reasons that the Wastes are such a bad place to live -- untamed Storm Bulls. This doesn't mean that Praxian berserks are tougher than the Sartarite ones, of course -- it just means that the Praxian ones are not part of the tribal power structure. Everyone who has said that Storm Bulls use their tribal weapons are right on. All weapons are theoretically accessible to the Bull, though where there has been contact with the Lunar Empire, scimitars are often frowned on. Missile weapons are not the main emphasis for most Storm Bulls, for obvious reasons. The traditional weaponry for full berserks among many hill barbarian tribes is two bastard swords -- one in each hand. This is a pretty effective combination, given that they normally fight Fanatical or Berserk, and don't want to impale. But I can't imagine a Storm Khan rejecting an initiate on the basis of his weapons choice, unless it was really egregious (i.e., "My weapon masteries are thrown dagger, singlestick, and Real Large Shield. Can I join the Bull?")