Bell Digest v931022p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 22 Oct 1993, part 1
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk

The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.

Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
want to submit articles to the Digest only,  contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.

Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:

RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)

---------------------

From: eosgg@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
Subject: More on Humakt
Message-ID: <9310210939.AA26046@raesp-farn.mod.uk>
Date: 21 Oct 93 09:39:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2065

Re: Humakt - there exists the possibility here for some interesting 'desperation
cult' stuff in the Barbarian Belt.  The Orlanth Warrior side is being
suppressed, a crack down on Storm Bull, so all these displaced Orlanthi migrate
towards Humakt.  Here they put heavy emphasis on the 'death' side of the cult,
getting vey mystical (as per the 'Ghost Dance' of the American Indians around
1900's ?).  Lunars start seeing a big increase in Humakt, lots of secret
rituals, conspiracy-like action - they will naturally crack down on this.  The
old Humakti don't like the way that the new membership is going, so have an
internal purge, so a splinter group of dedicated 'Humakt is the Death and Life
of Sartar ( --> harping on about Orlanth Myth-time actions) ' cultists start
doing their own thing ... Something nice to be happening in the background of
your Humakti P.C.'s.  I wonder how Humakt would feel about this ...

re: Colin Watson - Vampires harder to make than a resurrection.
Yep; that's the way it should be.  How hard is it for you to walk across the
room ?  And to make a robot to do the same thing ?  That's the difference we're
talking about.  Divine magic taps into the nature of life, goes with the flow
etc, so is 'instinctive'.  Sorcery is do-it-yourself science.  You have to be
conciously in control of EVERYTHING.  Much harder.

So sorcery (as it is) is much, much harder to get the same result as a divine
(or even spirit), but you've got a lot more fine control over the thing.
I'm trying to introduce a magic fumble table into our campaign, but the players
(quite rightly, too) point out the instinctiveness of spirit and divine spells,
obviating any chance of fumbling.  Pity - we get through a pigfull of Endurance
spells in a game (with 'tiredness' being FP's recoverable over hours instead of
minutes) and I'm eagerly awaiting a decent fumble from one of these.

Geoff

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From: Roger.Nolan@isltd.insignia.com (Rog)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 21 Oct 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <1517.9310210921@incautius>
Date: 21 Oct 93 11:21:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2066

>  According to Robert, this is a Windows file, and can be
>  manipulated under Windows.  I don't know much about
>  Windows; however, I was able to go into it with a text
>  editor to remove the control characters and produce a
>  readable ascii text file.

The whole thing sounds more like NeXTMail to me - damn, I accidentally deleted  
yesterdays digest w'out reading it....

RTF is actually a Microsoft text interchange format, adopted by NeXT for all  
(non postscript) files.

Mr Peterson souuld remember to click on the non nextMail nbutton and not use  
all those fancy fonts and pictures.

---------------------

From: stormbull@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tim Westlake)
Subject: Swords, riddles and tar
Message-ID: 
Date: 21 Oct 93 16:00:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2067


In-Reply-To: <9310210615.AA17438@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Colin Watson : Wednesday 20th

> Well, I guess that about wraps it up for spears.
> Gimme a sword every time. :-)
> (They really do look a lot cooler too, IMO).

as Slaine MacRoth would say, 

Kiss my Axe!

:-)

---------------------------------

Allan Henderson : Wednesday 20th

> Does anyone have good riddles out there ?.

Are you seriously asking for chaos spawned riddles on this list?????
Wheres my axe ...

---------------------------------

For those of us without access to tar capabilities could someone  
explain what was in Sandy Petersens tar file and provide and ASCII 
variant?

Tim

---------------------

From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham  , via RadioMail)
Subject: sticky black stuff; Humakti
Message-ID: <199310211602.AA00191@radiomail.net>
Date: 21 Oct 93 16:02:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2068

>From: timp@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Tim Posney)
>Subject: how to use the tar file that occurred in the digest today

You left out step 0: have a Unix system (luckily, this is a mailing list,
so not all of us have to :-)

>From: eosgg@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
>Subject: Humakti

>Now look at Humakt.  One of most significant god-time acts was severing ties
>with his kin.  That's going to be reflected in cult vows; the humakti is
>expected to renounce all previous ties, whether blood, honour, whatever.
>That gets an immediate thumbs-down from most folks - would *you* throw away
>your pension and medicare ?  So 4-6% humakti ?  Never.

Then the temple has to provide them, in a way most temples don't. Instead
of blood brothers you have sword brothers.

>So are you going to find many humakti farmers ?

Quite possibly, older, retired Humakti do farm.

>IMHO there are lots more uroxi than humakti in Sartar.  As blood ties start
>to become less important (ie. towns) you'll find the percentages become equal,
>until in cities there are hardly any uroxi at all. 

This is a good observation.

Actually, due to their lack of kin, Humakti make the best adventurers. They
don't have to worry about what will happen to the family because they might
get killed adventuring. Their family's already lost them.


---------------------

From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes)
Subject: gloranthan art
Message-ID: <9310211807.AA25338@Sun.COM>
Date: 21 Oct 93 18:06:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2069

  It's hard to imagine anybody in the games business I have less
business criticizing than Ken Rolston.  The Dorastor book was great;
the calligraphy on the cover, the interior art, even the gross-out
encounters people were complaining about (actually, after you've
seen Cwm's stats nothing else seems that gross).

Thoughts on Gloranthan Art--
  First, there's an awful lot of it:  all sorts of cultures based on
actual cultures from many different times, all existing at once.
Art traditions that on Earth are separated by time in Glorantha are
separated by space.  In some ways this has similar effects:  where
medieval Europe knew about ancient Roman art, it wasn't aware of Class-
ical Greece; in Glorantha the Loskalmi are much more likely to be fam-
iliar with Lunar art than with Manirian.

  Of course, time only goes one way, but when space is the only separ-
ating factor the influence goes both ways.  The Lunars have a very
syncretic culture and are open to outside influences, and think of the
influences of Fronela and Loskalm:  the idea of Imperial Roman art
influenced by Northern Renaissance styles and technology is too much
for me right now.

  When different art traditions meet you can get some weird effects:
A good example is Gandharan sculpture.  Alexander fought his way to
the Indus and founded a bunch of city-states colonized by Greeks, and
one eventual result was an artistic style that combines 4th century
Greek proportions, drapery, and facial features with Buddhist icono-
graphy.

  In short, you've got all the excuses you need to get away with
murder, when fudging Gloranthan art. (I was thinking of Griffin Mountain
and its maps of the Elkoi, Trilus, and Dykene, lifted straight from a
textbook on Mycenean art.  A purist could argue that they were totally
out of place, reflected a much more sophisticated culture than the
Balazaring pig-tenders, etc., but somehow the maps really look good
there.)  Lift stuff from the art books, mix and match to suit yourself,
and have fun rationalizing it in the end.

--Newton

---------------------

From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: Humakti in Orlanthi Society
Message-ID: <9310211822.AA01685@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 21 Oct 93 18:22:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2070

Sandy Petersen wrote:
>>  Date: 19 Oct 93 05:30:23 GMT
>>  X-RQ-ID: 2052
>>  
>>  Hi everyone! I don't know what the cause of that last garbled
>>  message was, but I'll try to reproduce it as best I can in 
>>  English here. Wish me luck.

So no Auld Wyrmish this time, huh?


>>  re: Humakt & Geoff Gunner
>>  
>>  Humakt is an Orlanthi god -- he is not an alien god to the 
>>  Orlanthi culture. Even though Humakt severed his bloodlines
>>  to Orlanth, he is no enemy. I would expect to find at least as 
>>  ...
>>  larger population. I agree with your supposition that Humakt is not 
>>  just for lost causes. I do think that many Humakti warriors are
>>  loners or clan outsiders, since it is a bit of a break with
>>  the ol' Orlanthi family line. 

No, they're not "aliens", but neither are they terated in a very close
and friendly fashion. At Origins, Stafford mentioned his concept of a
Humakti coming to town - everybody closes doors, shutters, etc. Much as
what one would expect to see as the mythic rogue ronin, or the Clint
"There will be much shooting" Eastwood character comes to town. 

Their purpose and value to society would, of course, be respected. This
does not imply chummy relations, though. Greg also (over?)stressed one 
other thing regarding Humakti: They mean ONE thing. DEATH. This does not 
make them popular at parties.


>>  I like your idea of the drunken unshaven Humakti being
>>  lectured by their Swords. In my own campaign we had one

This does seem appropriate too. Also fits in well with the Toshiro Mifune/
Clint Eastwood as Humakti concept.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  john_medway@zycor.lgc.com  |  Landmark Graphics Corp  |  512.292.2325  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


---------------------

From: DScott@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott)
Subject: Shamanism FAQ
Message-ID: <9310211922.aa24429@post.demon.co.uk>
Date: 21 Oct 93 19:23:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2071

A few days ago Henk was looking for some response for posting the Shamanism FAQ 
(Frequently asked Questions) from the new USENET group.

Go for it! I was going to post a few of the articles from the group myself, but 
what do others think. (I'm also not sure about copyright restrictions and 
permissions - any help?)

BTW, the descriptions of spirit work that I have read are very different from 
what people were discussing about the RQ spirit plane.

David Scott

Sandwiches on the edge of time
DScott@Snail.demon.co.uk 158.152.16.30


---------------------

From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance)
Subject: Re: riddles
Message-ID: <01H4CU3L1PXE0040OE@UG.EDS.COM>
Date: 20 Oct 93 18:16:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2073

A number of the Anglo-Saxon ones can be quite scurrilous e.g. 
(and I'm quoting from memory here)

I am what every maiden delights to grasp, for I am long and 
stout and go up and down.  What am I?

(A butter churn)

Stiff and dry I do begin, and soft and wet removed

(a sponge)

Stout and long, I hang by the belt, entering a familar hole to 
do my duty

(a key)

---------------------

From: R1VOLZ@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 20 Oct 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <01H4DQFUTUR09D8NQ4@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Date: 21 Oct 93 13:07:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2074

Graeme Lindsell writes:

> [CA] is a Solar god as well (maybe Pameltelan too). Given the way
>the Lunar Heartlands are presented, I would say there could be a
>great many CA's there.

I would argue that the number of CA initiates and priedstesses would be 
small in the Lunar Heartlands, primarily because the vast majority of 
the people there would worship the Seven Mothers (which has a wide variety of 
Healing magics available).  Most of the people there would likely go to their 
local Seven Mothers temple for healing.  If I remember correctly from 
_Cults_of_Prax_, the Seven Mothers expect this.  Besides, CA is associated with 
Orlanth, who is decidedly persona non grata in the Empire.

> Swords aren't shaped like the Death rune, the Death rune is shaped 
>like a sword! Spears, Bows, Slings are all meant to kill things.

Yes, they are all used to kill things, but bows and spears are hunting weapons, 
used to bring sustenance to many; axes and hammers are glorified tools; even 
flails and daggers have their origin in domestic tools.  The only weapon that 
is truly meant to be used just to spread Death is the sword.  That's one reason 
why it is special to Humakt.

>It has also been argued on this list (by me and others) that he is 
>quite literally the Sword God, that "Humakt" is actually the name 
>of the Unbreakable Sword, once owned by Orlanth.

I wasn't a member of the list when this was discussed, but I would appreciate 
it if someone could send me the files.  In any case, I can't see Humakt as 
"only" the Unbreakable Sword.  Gods are far more than just physical 
manifestations.

> On a more rules related note, I don't like the current Sever Spirit
>spell because it is cowardly: no real Humakti kills at a distance!

Actually, you mean a PERFECT Humakti never kills at a distance.  Being that 
Humakti are not prohibited from using missile weapons (sure, it's discouraged, 
but it's still not *prohibited*), I would argue that Humakt intends them to 
further the spread of Death even from a distance.

Colin Watsen writes:
>Yes indeed! I wholeheartedly agree with this. It really hacks me off when
>people assume that every initiate is going to be a model of their God. I
>think truly pious initiates would be few and far between. 

I have no argument with this.  In fact, I agree wholeheartedly.  I was a little 
confused as to what in my message (if it was my message he meant) he was 
referring to.

Ken Rolston writes:
> I personally am especially proud of the recent graphics in RQ
>materials. I only hope we can continue to improve given our limited
>resources. 

Actually, I always thought that RuneQuest has some of the best art in the 
role-playing game industry.  No cartoons here!

					Roland

---------------------

From: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Subject: Humakt Cult
Message-ID: <01H4DS52ZPY29BWQDE@wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 21 Oct 93 13:22:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2075

I'm speaking theoretically here, and basing my opinions on religious
history rather than the RQ rules, so don't bash me for making rules
errors.

Remember that Humakti are RQ's answer to Paladins from the D&D game,
and the Gloranthan analogue to Templars and Hospitallers and Teutonic
Knights, oh my. They are warriors devoted to honorable death for the
opponent and themself, and they don't have any sense of humor. There
weren't all that many Templars and Hospitallers and Teutonic Knights
in our own Middle Ages. There shouldn't be that many Humakti. So Geoff
Gunnar's <1% number sounds good to me.

Let's think further on it.

If Humakti are that rare, how can they get enough bodies together to
consecrate ground and hold a worship service? The answer is simple.
They don't have to. They just use the local Orlanthi temple, which has
a shrine to Humakt somewhere, even if it is only the sword that the
statue of Orlanth is holding. Let's draw an analogy with the Templars.
They were a holy order of knights with their own priesthood, however
they could go and pray at any Christian church. If they had divine
magic they could recover it at any christian church. As with the
Templars, Humakti will not be able to find dedicated temples in many
places, but they can use shrines in any temple of a ruling deity that
will accept Humakt into its pantheon.

In fact, it would be easiest if Humakt were just a subcult of Orlanth
so that Orlanthi could receive Humakt's gifts (and pay his prices) if
their need was great. Too bad Humakt cut his blood ties so that is
impossible. However, Minlister and Yinkin and Eurmal and Lhankor Mhy
and Chalana Arroy and Ginna Jar and Flesh Man and many of Orlanth's
other friends would work best as subcults. At least, some of them
would.

This is where I get into trouble with the all-or-nothing way that
cults work in RQ. Earthly polytheists will worship any god who can
satisfy their needs, and they're not monogamous at all. They worship
the grain god in the spring and at harvest, the god of fire when the
coals go out, the god of storms when they're sailing, the god of
plagues when they are sick, etc etc etc. The problem is that RQ cults
aren't polytheistic, they're monotheistic. Initiates, who comprise the
vast majority of the adult population, may only worship one god each.

We have one really good earthly example of a people who would only
worship a single god, and who denied worship to any others. The
israelites were a warlike people who worshipped Yahweh, a volcano god,
and conquered many of their neighbors. When they conquered their
neighbors Yahweh would absorb some of the characteristics of their
neighbors' tribal gods, and so he absorbed Adonai and Elohim and a
number of other gods. In fact, many of these other names remain in the
Pentateuch. Anyway, the israelites were one of few earthly tribes to
insist that their own god was the *only* god worth worshipping, and it
was no coincidence that they were extremely warlike. After all, every
battle, every act of violence against an outsider, was a holy act, an
act of worship because it asserted their god's primacy.

I would think that the RQ cult structure would produce just such a
situation. Every initiate would see initiates of other cults as
enemies because they do not acknowledge the primacy of the only god
that matters. Every cult would encourage attacks against every other
cult as a way of increasing the power of their own god, and also as a
way of keeping the minds of cultists on the superiority of their
beliefs.

We know the history of violence in the Mideast, with Jew and Christian
and Moslem, all monotheist cultures, in a boiling pot. Imagine a world
with not three, not ten, but hundreds of mutually exclusive
monotheistic religions. It would destroy itself. Under the RQ cult
rules Glorantha is just such a world.

In my opinion, instead of the present cult system RQ should have
religions based on broad pantheons, which are capable of addressing
*all* the needs of worshippers. People would be initiates in the
religion, and it would satisfy all their spiritual needs and most of
their physical ones. Individual cults would be for fanatics, much like
orders that follow one christian saint or another. But anybody could
ask for the blessing of one of the gods in a religion, with no
requirement to join a restrictive cult.

whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller            internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
"Enough sound bites. Let's get to work."        -- Ross Perot sound bite

---------------------

From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Sandy's weird mail.
Message-ID: <9310212314.AA23267@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 22 Oct 93 01:14:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2076

Mr. Petersen made a mistake, which was aptly
corrected.  Several explanations have now 
appeared and I'd like to leave it at that.

We will now resume our regular programme.

---------------------

From: goroh@fee.unicamp.br (Andre de Oliveira Fernandes)
Subject: GLORANTHAN CALENDAR OFFERED!
Message-ID: <9310212329.AA10379@fee.unicamp.br>
Date: 21 Oct 93 23:31:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2077


	Hi people of the NET!

	This brazilian heroquester here has just typed on Word for Windos the
complete Gloranthan Calendar (the one at Gods of Glorantha pack).
	I've sent it to the upload directory at soda.berkeley.edu , but
I think that only PS files are accepted. appel@soda told me to convert the
files to a ps format, but my WfW can't do it! (or I am too stupid to find
out how make the program obbey me...).

	Can somebody gimme a hand?