From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 28 Oct 1993, part 4 Precedence: junk --------------------- From: staats@MIT.EDU (Richard C. Staats) Subject: Resurrection Message-ID: <9310252031.AB04506@MIT.EDU> Date: 25 Oct 93 11:30:33 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2111 Greetings! Just a couple of random thoughts about issues in the RQ Daily lately. On resurrection . . . I got the feeling after reading a couple of replies to my posting about resurrection that several readers had gotten the impression that I do not allow resurrection in my campaign. I *do* have resurrection available in my campaign; it is just *costly* to get ahold of in terms of both finances and subsequent responsibilities to the Chalana Arroy cult. Even from a strictly gaming standpoint, resurrection is a good thing. Sometimes players can have incredible strings of bad luck, and they lose a PC through no fault of their own. In these cases, resurrection is a good, viable option --- just make sure the PC "pays" an appropriate price for the resurrection. Reference "the power to destroy is the power to create" . . . no, not really. For example, a martial artist might know a great deal about the physiology of the body in order to be able to more effectively disable an opponent, but on the other hand, I would not want a random black belt in karate doing open heart surgery on someone, because "he knows a lot about the human body." In the same way, knowing about Death tells one little about Life. About Sandy Petersen's comment on the fraction of Humakti in the population . . . it is quite conceivable that there could be a large fraction of Humakt worshippers. Universal military service is something we see quite a bit even in our own technological world. In a land where there is frequent armed aggression, it is logical that the populous would turn to sources of protection and training. Serving some time with a Humakt company and then returning to till the soil seems like a good way to provide for the "common defense." Korea seems like a good example of a country that works like that in practice. The young men all spend some time in the military, but then they go back and work as laborers in the communal farms or other occupations. Just my $.02. In service, Rich --------------------- From: cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu (Chris Pearce) Subject: Chalana Arroy and Chaos Message-ID: <9310252059.AA02130@nemesis.acs.unt.edu> Date: 25 Oct 93 10:59:07 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2112 Colin Watson writes: BTW, something I've been wondering: is it possible to remove the taint of Chaos from a creature (without killing it)? I can imagine the Stormbull line on this, but was wondering what Chalana Arroy thinks: she seems to vaunt the idea that "all life is precious, but Chaos doesn't count". Why don't CAs protect chaotics and try to cleanse them? Is this feasible? Naiya replies: (Guamata's Vision Spoilers) Colin, son of Wat, you do not understand. To Chalana Arroy, *all* life is precious, all intelligent life even more so. But you raise a issue that greatly troubles me... I have confronted the problems you describe regularly and I cannot be certain I have dealt with the properly. It is evident that creatures of Chaos can refute their natures. Why, the Wild Healer of the Rockwoods is a broo who turned from Chaos and joined the community of those who serve the Lady. And the Cleansed One was a broo who removed his Chaos taint through his piety. However, so many of the creatures of Chaos I have seen--broo and ogres-- seem bent on inflicting suffering and destruction. Chalana Arroy frowns on destructive Chaos, for it reminds her that forces of Chaos slew her beloved son, Arroin. But while she does not extend her protection to those Chaos creatures who destroy, she does not necessarily wish their destruction. Rather, she truly wishes that they would turn from their Chaotic ways. Chalana Arroy can not directly cleanse a being of Chaos--that seems clear. I once thought She could--a young girl who had been impregnated by broo-- was sent to Horngate for healing. I did not go, for I could ill afford the two day journey--Zola Fel had chosen me to help cleanse the river--but I had heard that the Healers at Horngate had treated the girl as if she had been wounded by Chaos. But my recent experience at Horngate seems to contravene what I heard. I recently led an exodus from Black Rock Village to Horngate. Many women of Black Rock had been impregnated by a Chaotic creature. None of the High Healers' techniques could purge the Chaos, and we were faced with a difficult decision: allow the women to carry the children to term or have the Sable shamans abort the children. This was a divisive issue. I would have had the children brought to term. Who is to say that the ogre children, brought up according to the precepts of the White Lady, would not choose lives of peace and harmony? This view was in the minority, however. The other view was complicated by a realization of outside factors. The first was that the recuperation of the villagers proceeds quite slowly, and that some of the women are, well, too addled to be good mothers. Another concern is that the Sables would become angry and that their Storm Bulls could not be restrained. As my closest friend is himself a Storm Bull, I can understand this point of view--Bloodletter is sometimes unrestrainable. I have rambled long without perhaps saying too much of anything. But I can say that that creatures of Chaos can be cleansed of their taint, though not directly by the Lady. And I can also say that while Chalana Arroy has not great love for Chaos, especially destructive Chaos, she is merciful and will not turn away any penitent, peaceful soul. Perhaps one day when I am a priestess, I will go among--but carefully!--the broo and ogres and spread the word of harmony... -- Chris Pearce -- cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu How do you say delicious? How do you say delovely? How do you say delectable, define? How do you say - deGORgeous? How do you say dewith-it? How do you say Delite? --------------------- From: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller) Subject: Re: Rune Lords (from RQ-playtest list) Message-ID: <01H4L1TZ3NC29I593X@wharton.upenn.edu> Date: 26 Oct 93 17:25:23 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2117 From: WHARTN::MILLERL "Loren J. Miller" 26-OCT-1993 09:39:53.08 To: IN%"rq-playtest@marketing.wharton.upenn.edu" CC: MILLERL Subj: RE: Rune Lords David Dunham(via RadioMail) > It was probably me who wrote it. I have yet to look up the references, but > I have a hard time accepting that the requirements to become a Rune Lord > have much to do with the requirements for running a clan. (The "gentle" > Vastyr mentioned as the Varmandi leader in PB:G probably isn't a rune > lord...) Of course the rune lord requirements have a lot to do with the chief position. Remember that the chief is a *war* chief, so the Orlanthi skills (weapons, oratory, and survival skills) have a lot to do with the chief's success. The day to day business of individual families is decided by the family head (usually the seniormost male) while interfamily disputes are the purview of the clan council. Only if a dispute results in bloodshed or murder is the chief at all likely to take action, and probably not even then. > Besides, rune lords of Humakt (for example) aren't really acceptable clan > leaders (whether or not they've severed kinship ties). Right, but what about a rune lord of Gustbran the Smith? Humakt isn't the only cult that could have rune lords as living embodiments of the god. We already know that Waha priests and/or lords are the natural chiefs of their tribes, and that you must have royal blood to join Yelm Imperator. It's a small leap from that to assuming that the rune lord's natural function is that of a sacred, true king. whoah, +++++++++++++++++++++++23 Loren Miller internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu "Enough sound bites. Let's get to work." -- Ross Perot sound bite --------------------- From: s.phillips@gla.ac.uk Subject: Varmandisaga Message-ID: <27_Oct_93_10:58:53_A106BB@UK.AC.GLA.VME> Date: 27 Oct 93 09:58:53 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2118 Hi from Sam. Hmm.. The daily does seem a little slow. Have we hit exam season or something? (The continuing Varmandisaga) * Sorry for asking a few obvious questions yesterday (eg Lunar Tax). I went home and re-read Kos again. It's funny, every time a read it - more becomes clear. There was loads I couldn't remeber seeing before. I guess you can only take so much in each time. * So now my Varmandi Clan has a fort at the end of the valley and a path running through it. I haven't decided what is in the fort yet but I doubt it is the Lunars. They are taxed heavily (how much 'heavily' is I still to be decided. * I am still unsure about Orlanthi worship. The availablity of an Orlanthi priest for such things as tribal initiation and High Holy days seems to be a problem. Although not directly touched on in Kos I got the feeling that priests would be hard to find. Orlanthi temples have been closed down in all cities apart from Whitewall. And if the Lunars can close them down I'm sure they would close down all of the smaller temples they could find. Where would the priests go? If I was the Lunars I wouldn't let them go free - they would just set up another temple. Escaping wouldn't be easy either - without temples where would you teleport to? I could see rouge priests setting up secret one-off temples and Orlanthi sneaking off on mass to worship, hoping the Lunars don't find out until it's too late. * What is Larnste's table apart from a large flat topped mountain? What are the cinder pits? What is in tarndisi's grove? Anyone know where around the Dragon's Eye Tink is? * More about 4033: Re-reading KoS this all becomes clear as well. Gosh! Poor old Minaryth - for it was he who wrote all those kind letters. * Ducks: Would all Sartar tribes have taken part in the slaughter? The Colymar are said to have been the least co-operating of all the Sartarian tribes. Please someone - say they didn't do it!.. Cheers, Sam. x --------------------- From: awr0@aber.ac.uk (Adam Reynolds, 3rd Year and worried....) Subject: Greetings People Message-ID: <9310271133.AA19137@uk.ac.aber.fronta> Date: 27 Oct 93 11:33:04 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2119 Peeps may have noticed that I put in an offer for a disk containing all the RQ material I had placed together. It did not mention shipping it world wide The price I mentioned was 2 quid for UK sending, add 50p for Europe and 1 pound for rest of the world. If anybody would like to contact me via phone the number is 0633 876288 (Evenings and not this week as I'm not there). The disk will be 3.5 HD PC compatible only. Adam Signing off for the next 2 weeks.... --------------------- From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 25 Oct 1993, part 2 Message-ID: <9310271746.AA10145@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu> Date: 27 Oct 93 17:46:08 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2120 Paul Reilly here, responding to Sandy Petersen. I have to agree with Sandy on several points. In our campaign we base some of the religious aspects on ancient Earth practices (lacking contact with the house campaign) but get the same results - for example, anyone who wishes to cross a river (in a theistic land) sacrifices to the god of the river. Similarly practically everyone participates in fertility festivals, etc. This sort of temporary lip service to other gods is not considered 'bad' as it would be by monotheists. Rather, it is a sort of useful insurance policy. Examples from the ancient world abound and could be provided upon request. WQe find that it works well in our campaigns. Also, I agree about Seven Mothers being a borderlands cult. This is explicit in the old description. Deezola having reusable Resurrect must be from the house campaign; there is little information available on Deezola in published works - we were forced to make up our own version. There is supposed to be a complex Lunar pantheon with many gods that we have never heard of in the published stuff - this was hinted at in Cults of Prax but never followed up on. Plus of course there are many deities such as Hwarin Dalthippa who are oft-mentioned yet little described. Perhaps Sandy could enlighten us on some of these? It would be useful just to know _whether_ certain deities had been worked out yet or could still be developed in the future. More when I have more time, \ Paul R. --------------------- From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke) Subject: Blood of Arroin Message-ID: <931027202533_100270.337_BHB46-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 27 Oct 93 20:25:33 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2121 ___________________ Colin Watson asked: > BTW, something I've been wondering: is it possible to remove the > taint of Chaos from a creature (without killing it)? I can imagine > the Stormbull line on this, but was wondering what Chalana Arroy > thinks: she seems to vaunt the idea that "all life is precious, but > Chaos doesn't count". Why don't CAs protect chaotics and try to > cleanse them? Is this feasible? I seem to recall the Blood of Arroin can be used to purify away a Chaos taint. At least, the folk at the late "Pavic Tales" were very keen on the idea. I don't know offhand if there is a reputable Gloranthan source for this: maybe "Plunder" or somewhere similar. Certainly you wouldn't be able to purge the mighty Crimson Bat with a drop of the stuff -- that's losing all sense of perspective. Also, the Cleansed One was a well-intentioned broo who apparently had his taint washed away in the Zola Fel (cf. that cult write-up for details). This may be part of the purifying/baptismal function of Gloranthan water in myth -- compare with the infamous Baths of Nelat (an inhumane ritual whereby the Chief of an Orlanthi clan had to take a soak in a hot tub every winter; since discontinued as "far too dangerous" [cf. KoS p.168]). In which case, there'll be other bodies of water able to do the same (on a near-miraculous basis -- Zola Fel did it *once* and it's a part of the cult write-up). But Chaos is essentially Anti-Life, without redeeming qualities. Chalana Arroy healers might move heaven and earth to purify someone or something that had inadvertently become Chaos-tainted, but I don't see them going out of their way to cleanse unnatural monstrosities. Purging a Chaos taint should be even more uncommon than Resurrection, IMHO -- and that's rarer than the rules would lead you to believe. 'Cos Resurrection is "natural" compared with Chaos-nobbling. Cheers, ==== Nick ==== --------------------- From: drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng) Subject: RuneQuest-Con Update: Oct 27 Message-ID: Date: 28 Oct 93 03:48:53 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2122 RuneQuest-Con Bulletin #3 ========================= MEMBERSHIP Things are chugging along nicely still. We're over 100 registrants now with people still contacting us for info. Looks good! HOME OF THE BOLD ... is pretty much full. We have started the process of assigning characters (don't call us, we'll call you). If you haven't sent in your registration yet, but would like to play, PLEASE LIST HOTB AS YOUR FIRST CHOICE FOR THE SAT SLOTS ANYWAY. We will labour to make new characters, and who knows how far down into the wait-list we'll have to go. VOLUNTEER NEGLECT I feel bad about neglecting all the people who have volunteered to help out, running games or otherwise. You have not been forgotten. I've got an archive of all volunteer offers; it's just a matter of me organizing everyone as to what they can do. Please don't think you've been forgotten. I will indeed be contacting you about how you can help. CONQUEST GAMES based in Somerville NJ, is our new dealer, replacing the less-than- honest Game Exchange (run by Ron Meischker) of Egg Harbor NJ. Dean Norman, the proprietor, comes recommended. HOTEL RESERVATIONS Have you made them yet? If not, please do so ASAP. I need a good estimate on the bookings, for when I bargain with the hotel. Please feel free to contact me w with any questions, commes, requests for registration info, etc. More soon, * David Cheng drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu (212) 472-7752 [until midnite, New York time] --------------------- From: graeme.lindsell@anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell) Subject: Lots o'comments Message-ID: <9310280355.AA24524@cscgpo.anu.edu.au> Date: 28 Oct 93 18:54:53 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2123 Nick points out the obvious to me: >Of course shamans have access to resurrection! Pretty useless, else. >^^ ^^^^^^ Well, yes. I was just wondering whether the Chaosium had any house rules on how they do it. >Problem is (as always with RQ shamans) that most of the really interesting >and useful things real-world shamans can do have been left out of the rules >as "HeroQuests". (Which makes me wonder why shamans were left in at all, >but there you go...). I suspect the "featureless grey" spirit plane is Shamans are pretty "featureless grey" themselves, come to think of it. The only difference between one shaman and another _as shamans_ is the size of their fetch. Otherwise all their shamanic powers are identical. It's only the cults they belong to that really differentiate them. Anyone got any good, unique shamanic abilities that they want to share, and an idea of how a shaman could get them? >In my head, I don't believe in resurrections. Agreed! >Nobody is going to get much running & shouting joy out of her >[Molanni's] worship. I think you've just insulted every Molanni worshipper alive. Both of them! A question: does the worship of a god give power to that god's enemies? Would (say) Pochango gain most of his strength from everyone's fear of mutating chaos, and their prayers to save people from it? Malia gains some worship out of fear, but this is a slightly different question. >Or, to put it another way: I find it attractive that almost all Sartarites >will be initiates of Orlanth and/or Ernalda, but it seems hard to penalise >players for this by requiring Sartar Storm Bulls to sacrifice 2 POW in >character generation for two separate initiations. I'm feeling around for I think that Chaosium seems to treat POW sacrifice a lot more cheaply than any players I've seen like to, re one use rune magic for initiates, gods eating your soul for DI's etc. To me, POW is your soul, gained at great effort and not to be wasted. Nick: when you return from your exam heroquest, could you tell us more about your MoonDragon rules? i'd like to compare them with David Dunham's Pendragon Pass conversion. >Removing Chaos Taints. I seem to remember some discussion about this a few months ago, that concluded that only heroquests could succeed, and then with the aid of only a limited number of gods. The god's I recall are Humakt (he can use his power to cut ties to slice the chaos - and quite a lot of the rest of you - from out of your soul) and Storm Bull ("Oh, great Storm Bull, please pound the chaos out of me!" is a phrase I fondly recall) Obviously Zola Fel can do it re The Cleansed One subcult >Sandy writes: This is all lay member stuff. I don't think this really helps the issue. Loren's point is that Earthly polytheists would pray to the various gods in their pantheon expecting real supernatural help. We're told that laymembers gain no magical support from the gods at all - they don't have that much connection. (Of course IMO initiates don't get much support either but that's another argument). People worshiped the pantheon, and got the help of the correct god in the appropriate situation, whereas in RQ3 an initiates link to the other gods in the pantheon is much weaker, usually one rune spell that they might cast once in their life. on Jeorg's Aeolian Heresy >Jeorg thinks of the Aeolian Heresy as teaching the Trinity of the >Invisible God: Creator outside of Creation, the Guardian Spirit >permeating Creation (aka Glorantha, Ginna Jar or Arachne Solara), and >Orlanth Lightbringer, the Invisible God born into the world. I find >this attractive. I once thought of a similar, more Hindu Stygian cult, which worshipped The Invisible God Creator, Orlanth the Preserver and Humakt the Destroyer. The triangular law rune is very suggestive of a Trinity: are we ever told that the Malkionists have a trinity? > Malkionist Saints I've always wondered: why didn't you just use the existing rules for rune magic when constructing the Saint's? They seem to be worshipped much like rune gods, and the costs are similar. Primitive Sorcery: Opinions Wanted! (minor spoilers for Shadows on the Borderlands) Sounds like a contradiction in terms, doesn't it? I started wondering about primitive sorcery when I read SotBl and saw the mojos that are used to curse people. These seem to be an example of simple sorcery: magic that comes from the caster rather than spirits or gods. It seems to me that Enchant is a form of sorcery that is available to almost every culture. The RQ3 rules say that sorcery only appears in the civilized cultures, but I'd like to think that even the other cultures have smatterings of the same knowledge, and that it is only in civilized cultures that sorcery becomes organized enough to supplant the other kinds of magic. A few weeks ago people were saying that there are shamans even in civilized cultures, should there be sorcerers (albeit poorly trained ones) in nomadic cultures. Does anyone know much about magic in tribal societies, and whether they distinguish between spirit magic and personal magic? Graeme Lindsell a.k.a Graeme.Lindsell@anu.edu.au ---------------------