From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 02 Nov 1993, part 1 Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 30 Oct 1993, part 1 Message-ID:Date: 1 Nov 93 06:24:22 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2162 Graeme Willoughby on Extension in X-RQ-ID: 2142 > I was looking in the Dorastor book the other day and among the gross >monsters I noticed that one several (Platewalker in particular) have got large >value extension spells - 18 points worth as I recall. I wondered just how long >this would last and came up with the following table which I present for your >delectation and amusement. >This means that extension is one of the best spells in the game! You don't >need that gross an NPC Rune Preist to have 20 points of Rune Magic given that >they have to have 10 points to start off with. I'd imagine that every cult has >at least one spell that it would be useful for the preist to have permanently >up. That is, the preist casts the spell with a 15 pt extension at the beginning >of each year and spends the next fortnight recovering the extension spells - >unfortunately they can't recover the one that they're extending though - how >sad! Then they have that spell up for the whole of the year. Obviously this only Don't know what the rules say, but I'd rule that Extension can't be regained either until expired or dispelled. A while ago in the sorcery discussion somebody stated or suggested that all long-duration spells lasted only until next holy season, when all but the strongest magic expired. One reason more to visit the temple during this time... >Anyway I think you get my point - having a large value extension is *so* useful >and *so* cheap,for such a powerful effect, that every Priest should be >accumulating it, if they have access to it, and most cults do. I'd say that to pay one point of POW to reusably double spell duration doesn't seem too expensive. One of the results of the sorcery debate went along this line, too. >Comments please! I have no problems with low-powered spells kept up for a long time. The thing begins to stink if too powerful spells are kept up too long. This applies to sorcery as well as to extended divine or spirit magic. Earlier this year Greg Fried suggested to limit castings of divine magic through a resistance roll. Something like POW vs. sum over all points in the spell (i.e. 1+2+3+4...) to succeed, with reduced effect by the number the roll missed, the rest of points either not cast or burnt off without effect. BTW, what effect does extension have on spirit magic under RQ3-rules, and how about extending sorcery (as some "Stygian" sorcerers might be tempted to do)? Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2145 >Hello all. Sandy again. >Greg Fried sez, re: cities >> Refuge: something like Sog City in small, Brithini ruling a normal >> populace. That was me, replying to Greg. Genertela Book, page 52, says explicitly ".. is a Brithini outpost which continues its tenuous existence using the old caste systems of Brithos." >Refuge was created to be a direct copy of Sanctuary, so we could use >the Thieves' World module in Glorantha. I thought of the rulers of >Refuge as Malkioni, not Brithini, but your information might be more >recent than mine own. There was an article in a French magazine showing a map very similar to that of sanctuary, and some beautiful air views of the city and the southern reaches of the Storm Mountains. What disturbed me most in that description was the tetrahedron cathedral to the Invisible God - elsewhere the Brithini are described as atheists, merely acknowledging, but not worshiping the Creator. The text says that the Refuge Brithini are considered heretics by other Brithini (of Talar Hold, in God Forgot, close to Casino Town?). It has a nice Trickster legend as founding story, which explains its epithet "City of Thieves". Too all Sactuary devotees out there: I could imagine the Brithini much in the role of the Beysibs, from Volume 4 on - a very caste oriented people foreign to the native populace. The Rankans would be replaced by the Lunars, and the Ilsigi would be the Heortlendings. Of course, the arrival of the Beysibs might lie in the future, them being Waertagi. Opinions? [Re: Colin Watson] >Loved your reasons for Lay Membership. So did I, but when I asked for the benefits of Lay membership I meant the spiritual and magic ones. Colin gave a very good one with "peace of mind/heart", but I'm not quite satisfied with that. Religious activities on Glorantha is a form of magic, and the participants wouldn't do so if they wouldn't receive a very real magical benefit. Lakes in Sartar: The Dragon River (the River of Creek Stream River) in the Second Age led through a stretch of lakes in the flats which are now occupied by Upland marsh and the Donalf flats. Delecti corrupted the lower ones, but the description in KoS on page 183 indicates that at least in the Second Age the lakes stretched far further north, almost until Dwarf Mine. Nick Brooke aka Temertain in X-RQ-ID: 2148 >BTW, there must be something in that old Lhankor Mhy saying, "the pen is >mightier than the sword(s)". After all, how many of them got away alive? There's Death, Truth and Law in there: | \ / | vs. ^ \ / T | T /_\ | Not oly the only truth, but also the only law the Humakti accept is death -- -- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de --------------------- From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail) Subject: DIs (& Divination) Message-ID: <199311010750.AA09141@radiomail.net> Date: 1 Nov 93 07:50:10 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2163 >From: graeme.lindsell@anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell) > Aside on DI's: I'm becoming increasingly disturbed at the way gods >devour their worshippers souls for divine intervention. Perhaps DI >should take sacrificed rune magic instead: that is what the god has >real control over IMO. So a priest who asks for help is no longer a priest? While it may be a game mechanic designed to limit frivolous DIs, it does abstract the "get me out of this and I'll make great sacrifices at your altar" request. On a related topic, I've found that the number one question asked in Divination seems to be "What does the Big Nasty want to do." My standard answer: gods can't read people's minds. David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net --------------------- From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland) Subject: Hurray! Message-ID: <9311010947.AA01328@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM> Date: 1 Nov 93 11:47:30 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2164 Visited Amsterdam with a foreign guest. Had the opportunity of dropping by at the American Book Center. They had two copies of Dorastor. Got something to read this week. They still have two copies of RQ3 Standard Edition... And a lots of copies of River of Cradles. --------------------- From: J.Ditton@vme.glasgow.ac.uk Subject: Who am I? Message-ID: <_1_Nov_93_11:35:07_A108D0@UK.AC.GLA.VME> Date: 1 Nov 93 11:35:07 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2165 I'm having a lot of difficulty getting mail from people. Assume whatever address is above is the correct one. You SHOULD be able to put S.Phillips in place of J.Ditton above. Thanks all. Sam Phillips. --------------------- From: J.Ditton@vme.glasgow.ac.uk Subject: Varmandisaga.. Message-ID: <_1_Nov_93_12:08:07_A10940@UK.AC.GLA.VME> Date: 1 Nov 93 12:08:07 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2166 Hello all. Sam Phillips here again.. * Well, the plans are going well. My clan are finding out who they are. * Nick, thanks for all the kind words. Apple lane: Apple lane is Colymar or at least Gringle Goodsell is. Did Gringle not sit on the High Council around 1613. Perhaps it is Gringle's importance that keeps Apple Lane from doom. Tribal Initiation: Where's the priest? * ISBN's. Oops, came from home without the list. Sorry folks. * Sartar Map. Yes.. Yes.. YES! * RQ-Adventures.. Anyone have a Snail Mail address for this. It *was* posted i believe. Where do I send the cheque.. * Nick again. RE: Do you join Storm Bull at first initiation? This is something that I have been worrying about. I think I mentioned that one of my players, when rolling his character, wanted to join Ernalda. (Blatant power playing if you ask me - I wouldn't let anyone be initiates of Orlanth you see) I said *no*. He wasn't an initiate of Orlanth so wasn't an *adult*. As a child he had no status with anyone. Non-adults can't carry weapons - how would they join Storm Bull? Only Adults can do adult things - buy fags, drink beer, go with Ulerians, join the moonies, become a beserk... Personally I see nothing wrong with two power sacrifices. For each one you get cult skills, cult spells *and* faith, freinds & family. Power sacrifice is just to represent devotion, a magical emotional tie. I would assume a year or two between each initiation (when rolling experienced characters) even if the young character had been eying up a god for years. They would only want proven adult members of society. I believe it was yourself who said they had no need for missionaries. (or was it Sandy?). So a young Orlanthi would find the right god eventually, no need to rush into anything. * Adam. I would like a copy of your disk. Where do I send the cash? * David Cheng. First, I don't believe I ever thanked you for sending me the RQ-Con brochure. *Thank you*. I drooled over it. I can't wait until the day. I will sit at home and astrally project (after a few beers I can do anyhing $*) Sartari? Grazers?.. The people round here call themselves Scottish. The Historical types call them Scots. The English call them Scotch which is what the Americans call a drink which we call 'Whisky' and the Irish call 'Whiskey' and I call 'another of the same please, cheers!'. * Ahah! ANyone notice the deliberate mistake? :X-) Notchet.. Roman type square planned city.. oops! I meant *Furthest*. But you knew that I meant what I meant.. didn't you? Arggh! must go the manfraim is going down in 5mins.. Cheers all Sam. x Not Scotland or Scotchland. --------------------- From: drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng) Subject: Disclaimer Message-ID: Date: 1 Nov 93 15:11:29 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2167 I would like to state, clearly and publicly, for the record, that the term "God Forgoti" was coined not by me, but by Charles Morehouse, the creator of the _Masters of Luck and Death_ game. The utterance Nick refers to was made at the Convulsion playtest of said game. I am deeply ashamed of said utterance, and will not propogate it further. I will now refer to the people of the city of God Forgot as "Malkioni." Not as Brithini, as some are prone to do. While their origins might originally be pure Brithini, certainly a culture such as theirs would be so far from the strict Brithini mores that they could not be commonly labeled. I see a culture driven by greed, where money can buy anything. Wizard and Serf: "You know, I'm not supposed to teach you this magic, but since my mistress has this taste for Falagian Diamonds, I guess we can overlook the rules 'just this once...'" The god of these people is not so invisible; they can hold his shiny image in their palm. I also think that such decadance exists only in the city proper. Most of the countryside of the Left Arm Islands probably just lacks overall spiritual guidance. I do indeed give my blessing on Nick's proposed "Esrolite" interpretation. Once again, I am overwhelmed and envious of his almost transcendental grasp of the magic and culture of Glorantha, and of our own Earth. John Medway: Doesn't Ral Partha make a line of Egyptian Ancients? RQ-Con: 109 Memberships, and climbing. More after this week's two midterms. *David Cheng drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu / d.cheng@genie.geis.com Ask me about RuneQuest-Con! (212) 472-7752 [before midnight] --------------------- From: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller) Subject: AOL Discussion: Prax and American West Message-ID: <01H4SRATCVTE8Y5LA2@wharton.upenn.edu> Date: 1 Nov 93 05:50:11 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2168 America On-line RuneQuest Chat June 9, 1993 Logged by Loren Miller (Ekron) Part 1: Praxians and American Indians PRAXIAN ANALOGS WITH REAL WORLD PEOPLES Ekron: All right, we know that some of the praxians are based on native american tribes. Which ones are which? Koribouros: I never saw the Praxians as analogs of any INDIVIDUAL tribe, but rather a cultural "stereotype." Gray: Anyway, on to Prax and Praxians. Gray: The Beast Riders of Prax... Ekron: Sioux? P Michaels: Iupo! Gray: One point you bring up is interesting actually - some people see these as Indians (the model favored by Peterson) others as Arabic desert nomads, dressed in long robes... Ekron: American indians, right? Not subcontinent? Koribouros: Right Koribouros: Hmm, Arab nomads... never thought about them that way... Gray: What we've seen so far makes them out to be more like Sioux or Crow indians... Ekron: Well, I always thought from the source material that they were arabic style nomads, not native americans Gray: Certainly would give Pavis an interesting flavor. Gray: Shades of Tangiers... Koribouros: I always thought the old cover of the RQ Companion portrayed them well. Gray: That's very Sioux - a bison rider, at least. Ekron: Assuming they are based on Sioux, would you be able to use Black Elk Speaks as source? Koribouros: Why not? Ekron: Or other authentic sioux material Gray: Probably a good start, at least for bison riders. P Michaels: Better to use Oglala Religion by William Powers. It describes in detail social organizations,tribal structures, rituals, and lots else. Gray: Another thing to look at would be the infuence of the animals they ride on their culture... Ekron: Are there camels in Vulture Country? Koribouros: Sure, the alticamellus is pretty close. Gray: I think camels are one of the extinct animal tribes... Koribouros: There are a lot of still-extant tribes out there who ride very odd beasts, though. Ekron: Maybe the bison riders are like oglala and alticamelus riders are like bedouins? Gray: That's not a bad idea, actually. Ekron: What would rhino riders be like? Tuareg, perhaps? Gray: Bison - oglaga, High Llama - bedouin Gray: Taureg sounds good. Gray: Impala might be Crow... G Bailey: Didn't all the tribes learn their ways from Waha? Wouldn't the teaching be the same? Ekron: did they learn all culture from Waha? I don't think so. Gray: No, apparantly there are a number of differences... Koribouros: Well, just becasue they learned the same teachings doesn't mean they would have to implememnt them the same way. Gray: Waha organized them, once they were already extant. Ekron: Are the personalities of beast riders like their animals? Would camel riders spit? Gray: I would think they would reflect them. G Bailey: how about that other great riding tribe, the Mongols? Gray: That's Pent. G Bailey: oops, that's right. Gray: The Pentians seem very much like Mongols. Ekron: I think the Mongols are like the pure horse tribe... and pent Gray: They even border on the Kralori empire... Koribouros: I always envisioned the racial stock of the Praxians to be similar to the Mongols, in appearacne. PRHarmaty: Greetings Gray: Discussing what Pentians and Praxians might look like... With Mongol and Beduin influences... PRHarmaty: I tend to think of Praxians as native Americans Ekron: We were thinking maybe prax has analogs of all the mounted nomads from earth... P Michaels: What about the non-Waha oasis Praxians? Ekron: Who would be the cossacks? Gray: Sables? PRHarmaty: Their relationship with animals is consistant with Indians' respect for their prey animals Gray: I like the idea of using a number of models, myself. Ekron: Foraging societies, like those in Prax, almost always have great respect for prey animals. It isn't unique to native americans P Michaels: I also agree with the multi-model idea. The trick is in uniting them into a uniquely Praxian whole. G Bailey: do they curse like beduins? what would some curses be? Koribouros: Where would the obscure ones, like the Mantis riders, fit in? Ekron: No trolls on earth, sorry. PRHarmaty: Mantis riders??? A joke, yes? Gray: Mantis Rider of Prax - the new John Norman novel... Koribouros: No, there's a few obscure references to them. Gray: Do you mean Bolo Lizard perhaps? Gray: I've never seen a Praxian Mantis reference. Koribouros: It was only a brief mention, in one of the old supplements. PRHarmaty: I've heard about Sartarite 'sheep riding' but I think that falls under sexual deviations. Koribouros: PRHarmaty: Thank you. Gray: Another interesting detail - Praxian knot writing. Koribouros: Knot-writing... an Andean reference. Gray: This is a written language of sorts that seems to specialize in directions, paths and a concept called 'distance from chaos' Koribouros: In ancient Andean cultures, they were used primarily as bookeeping. Gray: What I've seen of this makes it out to be more like Australian aborigine paintings. Basically a language they used before time, and still use now. Ekron: You know most foragers in marginal areas, which Prax certainly is, were driven there by population pressures from outside. I wonder if the praxians really lived there as long as they claim Gray: Yes, apprantly. Ekron: Why would anybody stay that long in a dead place? What is so valuable to them that they don't all emigrate? MarkDragon: Isnt Prax the homeland? PRHarmaty: Prax was not always marginal. The 'population' of the better lans kept them in Prax. Koribouros: Where would they emigrate to? Ekron: Pent? Sartar? Kralorela? The Kingdom of Ignorance? Gray: In the Tunneled Hills, among the statues of the gods, there exists one of the devil herdsmen and his herd of creatures. Ekron: What's a devil herdsman or a devil herd? Gray: OK, ancient Gloranthan myth... There were the tribe of law and the tribe of chaos. The Brithini are the descendants of the tribe of law, the Praxians the tribe of chaos. Tell it to a Storm Bull and he'll cut your head off . Ekron: Is this a recent revelation or did GS tell it to you? Gray: No, unpublished stuff. IrishSpy: Wouldn't they emigrate to Holy Country? (Except for the Lunars hanging around) Gray: Part of the reason they stay there is the Paps. Koribouros: I think the Lunars hanging around would be the problem :) Gray: The Paps are their great sacred ground. That's why they allowed the Lunars to remain on the plains of Prax. Koribouros: Besides, isn't the holy country a mostly farming area? Not neccesarrily a good place for herds. Ekron: I'm just acting as devil's advocate, but... The sahara desert was apparently at one time the cradle of humanity ruined by overcultivation. Do we stay there? Gray: I think comparing Prax and the Wastes to the Sahara is a mistake. G Bailey: I don't Prax is a desert, more like the American plains of the 1800's. Koribouros: ...by legend and example. IrishSpy: Prax strikes me more as the American Southwest P Michaels: Specifically, Prax is mostly chapparel,filled with stands of woody shrub thickets 1 to 4 meters high. Gray: Even the Sahara and Gobi have human inhabitants, nevertheless. Right, I think the American SW is a better model. Prax in particular is considered paradise by the animal nomads. Gray: They call Pent the land of false plenty, because it is only good half the year around. However, the Wastes look much more like the Gobi or Sahara... And many of the tribes live there. PRHarmaty: SW U.S. is too harsh. PRHarmaty: The native Americans thought the great plains were a desert untill they discovered the horse. Koribouros: Of course, that implies that someday, someone will find out just how fruitfull the plains of Prax could be to farmers... PRHarmaty: Agreed. Gray: The area around the Paps is supposed to be incredibly fertile... Ekron: So if someone brought Genert back there might be a land rush? Gray: There are some trying to reassemble Genert. Not doing too well, though... Koribouros: You'd think the Issaries would have at least made some progress by now. Gray: The problem is that there is a lot of opposition. P Michaels: From who? Gray: The Wastes are the home of chaos as well... P Michaels: Where is the growing ground? Gray: In the Krajalki Bogs.... Ekron: Then maybe we should just use native american models for praxians. Navajo, Zuni (for the rituals), Oglala, Crow, Nez Perce, etc... Gray: I think you might look at what tribes inhabit Prax more than the Wastes and model those more after American Indians, and the Waste dwellers more after bedouins and Mongols. With some crossover... PRHarmaty: Sweat lodges, sun dances, et al make great rituals for Praxians. Cleansing body and soul. Koribouros: The Yelmalians might complain about the sun dances... :) PRHarmaty: Who pays attention to the Sun Domers? Koribouros: Hey! I resemble that remark!