From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 02 Nov 1993, part 3
Precedence: junk
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From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Sharkies
Message-ID:
Date: 1 Nov 93 16:14:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2172
Greg Fried here.
Peter Michaels:
That was me with an island campaign, complete with shark worshipers. Thanks
for the reference!
---------------------
From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Nochet?
Message-ID: <9311011747.AA06481@Sun.COM>
Date: 1 Nov 93 16:11:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2173
In response the the question of how did Nochet get its name?
Here is what I understand to be the story (but I only got it direct from Greg's
mouth so it sprobably wrong).
Back in the early days of RQ Greg was playing a game with the rest of the
Chaosium bunch. The players decided to journey to a city marked on the map
(which was pretty sketchy at this time). One of them asked "has this city
got a name?" Greg replied "Not Yet" (in his standard Califorian accent which
does not come out very well in this medium). AND THE NAME STUCK!...
-----
Lewis
-----
---------------------
From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Ressurrection, Storm Bull weapons and Gaelcon
Message-ID: <9311011747.AB06481@Sun.COM>
Date: 1 Nov 93 16:26:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2174
This article is very late because it was bounced by my system
when I first sent it off. I have finally got around to resubmitting
it and I would like to appologize in advance if you have already
forgotten what we were talking about then.
Ref: X-RQ-ID: 2024 and others on resurrection
If you use the reusable divine magic for initiates (once per year)
and reusable once per season for priests (they get the spells back
on holy and high holy days). Then the great resurrection debate
is fairly immaterial, a priest could cast resurrection 5 times a
year and the odd initate with the spell is not going to greatly
increase the total number available.
In Pavis (with its high population of healers (supported by the
Rubble Casualties Association) there would only be about 25
resurrections available per year. There would be hundreds of
deaths so the chance of non-rune levels getting resurrected is
pretty slim unless they were very popular with CA. I would
suggest that rescuing a healer from Chaos was worth about 1
resurrection, alternatively a standing order of several thousand
lunars a year to the cult might be good for resurrection once
in a lifetime. Of course the best bet is to be an initiate of
CA because as a small cult she needs all the living worshippers
she can get!
Ref: X-RQ-ID: 2025 (Storm Bull cult weapon)
Yes, I agree with the tribal weapons idea. (This was offered by
Sandy as the answer to what weapons Storm Bull would prefer).
But for really special occasions the cult in Prax might have some
Truestone maces and mauls available for wiping out really big,
nasty, tough Chaos. There would only be a few of these mythic
weapons and they would only be loaned to Storm Kahns on special
cult missions.
The Truestone heads of these weapons would typically contain 2d10
points of Storm Bull divine magic. They would ignore all defensive
magic when striking a foe, but it would be impossible to cast
weapon enhancing magic on them. Thus, they bring out the virtues
for which SB is famous for strength, berserk rage and combat skill.
There is also that nice mythic squelchy sound when you get a crush
on the head of a Chaos monster. I would also rule that these weapons
do extra damage to Chaos because they are made of petrified Law.
After all if iron does extra damage to trolls and elves Truestone
should really hurt Chaos. An idea I like is to increase damage
with the number of Chaos features, or to negate defensive chaotic
features (thats why the Devil didn't regenerate, because I know for
a fact that he had that ability and any other useful CFs you care
to mention)...
General Comment.
I have stated before and I will repeat it here that I like the idea
of having to reinact myths (heroquests) in order to cast ritual
divine magic. Thus resurrection gets even more difficult and dangerous.
-----
Lewis
-----
P.S. I have just got back from Gaelcon in Dublin. The Seven Mothers from
Reaching Moon Megacorp crossed the western sea to the lands of darkness
(well have you seen their drinks). They sought and found the light of
inspiration and received illumination. They clustered around the light for
much of the time they were there and hid it from mortal sight. Eventually
however they had to return bearing their gifts of knowledge.
All in all, we had a brilliant weekend and monopolised Greg's time
far more than anyone had a right to. However, it seems that RQ3 is so
expensive in Eire that very few can afford it, so nobody minded too much
about our misappropriation of one of the guests of honour.
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9311011811.AA13488@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 1 Nov 93 06:11:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2175
Sandy is back again.
Charles Gregory Friend sez (in a private letter):
> And thanks for the thoughts on slavery among the Sun Domers. I
> still find it hard to imagine those stalwart, self-sufficient
> people with gobs of slaves going about slavishly, so I guess it is
> correct to think of most SD farmers as peasants and yeomen, with
> slaves mainly concentrated in the homes of the rich as servants or
> perhaps as unskilled labor. But perhaps I have too sanguine a view
> of the SD and really the only Gloranthans who might have truly
> ideological reasons for opposing slavery (maybe!) would be the
> Orlanthi. Hrmph.
Perhaps you could have the more Lunar/Yelm influenced Sun Domers be
the ones that are accepting of slavery, while the conservatives stick
to their guns and don't truck with human ownership.
The only GENERTELANS with ideological reasons for opposing slavery
might be the Orlanthi (at least the only major culture -- I'm sure
plenty of minor sects concur), but in much of Pamaltela, slavery is
seen as a facet of the Great Darkness, kin to Chaos. The very fact
that there is a god of Slavery in Pamaltela indicates the rareness of
the phenomenon. Genertela has no God of Slavery, because it is
universal. What's the point? Ompalam has won, there.
> Primarily I need some info on the costume and the military of the
> Holy Country and the Grazelanders so that I can have something
> appropriate on the table in Baltimore.
Some other players may have better ideas, but I always thought of the
Grazelanders as High Plains Indians during that one or two generation
heyday when they had horses and weren't being destroyed by the
palefaces. They are pretty much wheeler-dealers nowadays, but I don't
think that would change the costumes of their warriors. I think they
should paint their horses, perhaps even tattoo (brand?) them with
spell matrices and stuff. Some of their horses are magic and should
look different. Their main weapons are those best used from
horseback, lance and bow. There is a contingent of swordsmen, though
-- the Hiia Swordsmen. They are Humakti-derived, but I bet they still
ride their horses.
The Holy Country warriors come from five very different cultures. The
Heortlings are basically Sartarite types, though possibly more
civilized, and with a veneer of Malkionism. Think of them as Saxons
just after the Norman conquest. Hence there are both Saxon shield
walls and Norman (Malkioni) Knights. The Shadow Plateau are trolls,
mostly Argan Argar types, but still trolls. The Volcano people are
from a jungly environment, and are slash-and-burn horticulturists --
southeast Asian highlands, perhaps? Esrolia is a unique society,
woman-dominated and earth-based. I guess when I think of their
Babeester Gor warriors I think either Egyptian or Aztec. Egyptian
does sound too easy.
Say hi to Sean Summers for me. We're pals from way back.
Dave Dunham sez:
> [POW change is a big deal] If for no other reason than in RQ3, you
> have to recompute several bonuses when it changes
Steve Perrin LIKES recalculating his bonuses. He viewed that as a
plus in RQ III.
Graeme Willoughby comments on Extension: I reply
Yes, Extension is pretty amazing when properly exploited. The only
drawback is the fact that the priests casting the Extension don't get
the use of their spell back until it's worn off. So the year-long
Truesword actually costs the priests 16 pts of Rune magic for a year.
Still worth it in some situations.
But you don't need to have one priest saving up 16 pts of Extension.
Just have 16 priests, each with 1 point of Extension. Use Mindlink to
gum the priests together, and spread out the costs.
Colin Watson sez:
> surely only gods associated with Mobility should be able to
> teleport their worshippers and, similarly, only gods with power
> over Death (and maybe healers:-) should be able to bring people
> back to life.
While Gloranthan gods aren't particularly omnipotent, they are
certainly vastly powerful. Say you needed to be moved away from a bad
place. No doubt Kyger Litor would send a cloud of darkness to engulf
you. When it lifted, you'd be somewhere else. Storm Bull might suck
you up in a whirlwind and carry you bodily off. Ernalda might open up
a crack in the earth and swallow you up, spitting you out at the
desired locale. Etc. All the gods can move about quickly and send
messengers, and the messenger can do the dirty work of moving you.
Also, if we stick with the Pantheon idea, perhaps Lhankor Mhy (not a
particularly mobile type of guy) could ask his pal Issaries to move
you somewhere if you DI'd to LM for transport. In return, someday
when an Issaries needed wisdom from heaven, LM would return the
favor. Likewise, any solar or storm cultist might be able to DI to
their god for Resurrection (actually provided by CA). Only if it
seems reasonable for a given campaign, of course.
If DI was really common, I'd tend to restrict it's benefits more. If
it was extremely rare, I'd try to make it as useful as possible.
re: Ward Disease
(clarification) The recipient must only spend 1 POW, no matter how
many points of Ward Disease he receives. Hence it is in his interest
to get as big a spell as possible.
Carl-Johan Lundell sez:
> I have a PC who is one of the refugees from the fallen Malkonwal of
> Heortland. He has banded up with some Orlanthi rebels of Dragon
> Pass. He knows some low level sorcery and often is disappointed
> with, for example, his ability to heal damage compared to spirit
> magic users. Would he consider it heresy to learn spirit magic or
> use spirit spell matrices?
Naturlich, it's up to him, whether he considers it heresy or not. I
expect quite a number of Malkioni in the post-Lunar conquest have
taken up a bit of spirit magic. Why don't you let him learn
Neutralize Damage? That's a Rokari spell, and I think at least some
of the Heortland Malkioni are Rokari.
Nick Brooke sez: re: Temertain's assassination
> Oh aye, forty-seven Humakti to take on one elderly Grey Sage?
> That's what they call Humakti "Honour", is it? I am not impressed.
Well, they DID have to fight a whole bunch of Lunar guards, too.
Wow, Nick. I'm highly amused by the fact that you and I achieved
wholly different interpretations of the WBRM data re: who the good
guys are. There's clearly a fascinating culture variance between them
crazed American colonialists and obsessive British imperialists.
I suspect if the farmers have a Rune it's the Man Rune. I don't think
it matches up with a plow, but it seems the best around to me.
Jeorg Baumgartner asks:
> Is there anything contradicting a (possibly short, in God-Time)
> glacial cover of large parts of Glorantha during the darkness?
There is a long and perilous time of glacial cover for Genertela
during the Lesser Darkness, when the storm spirits, Valind, and
Himile rule the world. The time of the glaciers is well-documented, I
thought.It covered most everything but the Chaos Wastes (held back by
Genert in them days) and the Kralori lands (held back by the
Emperor).
re: viking
There's not that much work to do during the summer months on a farm.
Plowing is over, harvesting isn't yet to come. That's why so many of
the Norse were able to get away to go viking. And the fact that a lot
of them engaged in trade is just another aspect of viking. The Norse
raiders would generally trade with towns that seemed strong, and
pillage towns that seemed week. Trading and looting were different
sides of the same coin.
>... the timeline of the Harrek-Box which conflicts with the timeline
> in the general description. Any offers for this problem yet?
Nick adds: > Harrek can't count, or lies about his age.
Or has traveled in time.
> Somewhere, there's an official source which gives the Jrusteli God
> Learners this kind of attitude to the "gods": they are all powerful
> demons, who must be brought into line with the will of the
> Invisible God
I myself see the God Learners as extremely pragmatic. I'm sure that
they changed mind-views as easily as we change our socks, and that
this particular mind-set was useful when they were using Invisible
God theology against a particular deity. They no doubt even sponsored
a Malkioni heresy devoted to thus stamping out the demons, and found
its magic very useful in controlling the gods. But the God Learners
had plenty of god-worshipers among them. After all, their chief
deities were Issaries and Lhankor Mhy.
Graeme A Lindsell sez:
> I'm becoming increasingly disturbed at the way gods devour their
> worshippers souls for divine intervention. Perhaps DI should take
> sacrificed rune magic instead.
It used to, back in RQ I. A priest had the spell Divine Intervention,
which was one-use. Each point in the spell gave you +10% towards the
chances for a successful DI. You had to use all the points at once if
you wanted to try, and if you failed, the points weren't used, but
you couldn't try another DI for the same request. In those days
initiates didn't get a DI, at all, however.
One of the players in my campaigns lost two Orlanthi Wind Lords in a
row to DIs (happened to use up his last point of POW both times. Got
his wish, but then his spirit was Taken By Orlanth). Both times the
other players didn't see it happen. They just saw the intact,
unwounded Wind Lord body laying there when the fight ended. They
concluded that something was wrong with Wind Lords, that gave them a
highly increased cardiac arrest chance, and all the Pamaltelan PCs
told the story again and again.
re: Storm Bull difference between Prax & Sartar
I'm finally impelled to comment on this discussion. I think that the
cult is broad enough to support the two different interpretations of
the cult without needing to change the cult structure or spells.
Perhaps subcults could be different to fit the needs, but I believe
that the Praxian renegage Chaos fighter and the Sartarite brutal
Berserker interpretations of the Storm Bull can coexist with the cult
as it now stands, just as the 98-lb weakling Storm Bull who joined
the cult because Dad made him can be part of the fun.
I believe that both the Praxians and the Orlanthi recognize both the
destructive and the anti-chaos aspects of the Bull, though they may
emphasize it differently. The Praxian Storm Bulls are certainly
destructive enough, and the Sartarite berserks fight plenty of chaos.
It is true that the cults may have been even more different before
the days of the God Learners, when a lot of similar cults were merged
together.
re: Yelm/Yelmalio worship
I think that the Yelmalio dudes are worshipers of Yelmalio, but that
they believe that Yelmalio worships Yelm. I would compare it crudely
to the fact that most Christian churches worship Jesus directly, pray
to him, etc., but technically God the Father is in charge (of course
the Trinity concept messes up some of my comparison, but you can see
what I mean). Certainly at their Holy Day ceremonies Yelm would
figure prominently.
David Dunham re: Orlanthi temple sites.
The poor abused RQ III rules do indeed claim that a temple is a fixed
site, but I personally alter this rule at need when it seems
appropriate, like for a god of mobility like Issaries, whose temple
could obviously be a wagon. Also, a bare and windy hilltop is a fixed
site for Orlanth worship, just not an obvious one for Lunar
vengeance. The priest can still take home his sticks and altar and
hope the Lunars never find out the secret about old Bald Knoll. If
they do, he'll set up a new temple on another hilltop.
---------------------
From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: A load of Old Bull
Message-ID: <931101183507_100270.337_BHB77-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 1 Nov 93 18:35:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2176
_______________
Peter Michaels:
I enjoyed your view of Storm Bulls in Prax as following the old, pre-Waha
ways. This is a neat use of existing material which explains how they can
violate all those Waha-imposed tribal taboos. I had been using something
similar to explain why the Bullies are tolerated at all ('cos they used to
run the whole show, and Waha is a loyal son), but this is even better.
Though I'd not call them "contraries", as:
i) They do have a "code" of their own, which does make sense in itself.
ii) That always makes me think of transvestite shamans, and those idiotic
islanders you meet in Logic Problems who always tell lies (*note) --
neither of which really fits my ideas of the Storm Bull. Bolongo, yes.
Bur "behaving in a way contrary to common sense" seems an accurate
description, so we can let that stand.
> With such major chaos nests as Snakepipe Hollow to the north and the
> Foulblood Woods in Heortland (not to mention whatever broos and other
> chaos-spawn survive wandering in the mountains) surely the unique skills
> and magic of Urox are essential to survival at times.
Or "essential in places". Maybe there are fixed "traditional" Storm Bull
temples near the Hollow and the Print, and Tonaling Greathelm's guys go
roaming around Sartar in between sorting out the rest. Still leaves you
with the tribal structure of big bad Bullies standing behind the King with
their *huge* arms folded and casting menacing glowers... which has nothing
to do with fighting chaos, and is the Bull's main role in Sartarite
society.
Honestly, (until the Lunars came) there's not *that* much Chaos in Sartar.
The reported "Broos at the Big Elm" were probably Poss clansmen upwind of
whoever claimed to have seen them.
> ... if Humakt was Orlanth's Sword, was Urox Orlanth's Shield?
No. He was Orlanth's big brother. The question revolving around Humakt
earlier this year was whether he was ever a relative as such, or just one
of the Five Magic Weapons. No such doubt with the Bull. But you are going
to need a new title to replace "Storm Khan" -- any suggestions?
(*note) These incidentally remind me of the pygmy Andaman Islanders, long-
time favourites of any mythographer wanting a tall story. I am *sure* they
made at least half of their mythology up, it's all so hilarious! (Just my
opinion, sorry if I've offended any pious Andamanese on the Net...).
_____________
David Dunham:
>> Ah. Remember that there's really no such thing as an Orlanth Temple:
>> any bare and windy hilltop will do.
> That's a reasonable interpretation, but not supported by the RQ3 rules,
> which define temples as fixed sites. And casting Sanctify isn't necess-
> arily a solution, since you'd need a way to recover your Sanctify spell.
Interpretation? See the PB:G writeup of Orlanthi Religious Practice:
"Orlanthi ceremonies are usually held outside." Seemed obvious to me. If
it's "not supported by the RQ3 rules", we should change or ignore them.
You could cast Sanctify, step into the Sanctified area, and spend a day
praying, I suppose... Or use annual recovery of Rune Magic in a Sanctified
area on the High Holy Day... Or you could say that by their very nature all
windy hilltops are sanctified on Orlanth's Holy Days... but then you're
opening other cans of worms.
Me, I'm not too bothered by Rune Magic recovery: it takes place out of game
time, and therefore isn't all that interesting. Now, if only we knew
whether recovering Rune Magic was an acceptable use of your 90% temple
time... it makes a *big* difference to the life of a PC priest if he has to
perform recovery rituals for non-social Rune spells (as opposed to
Sanctify, Heal, Bless, Divination etc.) in his own personal time! (I will
admit that I use seasonal/annual recovery of Rune Magic as a way of slowing
down game-time, preventing number-crunching, and generally making my life
simpler).
> (Note that nomads have similar problems with the RQ3 rules, though per-
> haps they time their migrations to be at the holy site on high holy day)
Well, maybe -- but then we're talking about "Generic Praxian Holy Sites",
the old altars from Nomad Gods and the RQ2 Prax Map. Which also don't fit
too well with the existing RQ3 rules. So, as you say:
> I believe the rules should be changed
====
Nick
====