From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 05 Nov 1993, part 4 Precedence: junk --------------------- From: S.PHILLIPS@gla.ac.uk (Sam Phillips) Subject: Sources from kids' books - bibliography Message-ID: <9311042237.AA06609@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> Date: 5 Nov 93 00:37:39 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2205 Forwarded message: >Error: no subject >Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 13:29:55 GMT >From: S.PHILLIPS@gla.ac.uk >Sender: J.Ditton@vme.glasgow.ac.uk >To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM >Message-Id: <_4_Nov_93_13:29:55_A10544@UK.AC.GLA.VME> Hello from Sam -------------- Here is the kiddies history booklist I promised. I tend to go for detailed drawings rather than photographs as the illustrators tend to breathe life into the scenes/objects. First, the VIKINGS. Here are my two favourites. Both are historically accurate - I have found no mistakes in either:- * "The Time Traveller Book of VIKING RAIDERS" by Anne Civardi and James Graham-Campbell, Illustrated by Stephen Cartwright. Usborne Publishing Ltd 1977. ISBN 0 86020 085 X. Paperback, large format, 32p. Part of series. Others include KNIGHTS & CASTLES, ROME & ROMANS, PHARAOHS & PYRAMIDS (all inferior). Southern Norway 9th century. Detailed cartoonish pictures are colourful and characterisation is excellent (similar in a way to Asterix without dialogue). Two page spreads are: Earl Knut's Farm, Inside the longhouse, Building a new warship, The raiders get ready, Setting off, Raiding a monastery, A big feast, Cousin Olaf dies, Bjorn Sails to Iceland, Sven goes trading, Bjorn settles in Iceland, A meeting of the thing, A winter Festival. Also has The viking's World (a map), The story of the Vikings (a summary of history), Index and further reading. This is my personal favourite and I consider it to be one of the best children's books around. I found it invaluable for my Vikings campaign. The pictures can be converted into game info wholesale, as can the characters within - Cousin Olaf is especially good. My battered copy has had pride of place until very recently.. * "How would you survive as a VIKING?" by Jacqueline Morley & David Salariya. Illustrated by Mark Bergin. WATTS BOOKS 1993. ISBN 0 7496 1088 3. Hardback, large format, 48p ?8.50. This book is also one of a series. Others include ANCIENT EGYPTIAN, AZTEC, ANCIENT ROMAN, (in) MIDDLE AGES, AMERICAN PIONEER, NATIVE AMERICAN, (on) 18th CENTURY SHIP. I haven't seen any of the others yet. This book is crammed with detail. The pictues are less cartoony and there is more text. No colourful characters but instead many colourful anecdotes: Little stories of 6 frames tell the lives of kings ("Kings are made for honour - not long life"), slaves, clothes cleaning in cattle urine, Viking values (the picture of two vikings throwing an old lady off a cliff is especially good for a laff), washing (with a full page drawing of a Viking on a lavatory & a description of viking warriors blowing there noses into a bowl then washing their hair with it one by one - all good stuff!). I especially like the little details - an ear scoop, metal workers multi-purpose soapstone that produces crosses and hammers - detailed drawings of clothes showing how women's tunics were handy for breastfeeding - A lawspeaker lying in his tiny tent all day to consider a difficult problem etc. This is probably a better resource. Next Castles, hill forts, towns etc:- * "The Castle Story" written and illustrated by Sheila Sancha. Kestrel Books 1979, Penguin Books 1981. ISBN 0 14 00 5747 1. Paperback, Medium format, 224p. May be out of print as I haven't seen it recently. I bought my copy second hand. This is another amazing book. As a gaming resource I cannot recommend it higher. The diagrams are incedible. Nearly every page contains a plan of a castle. Every photograph has had original features and historical people drawn onto them. It also has a lot of text (ie it is mainly text). Whether or not this is actually a kid's book is another matter. The Glossary is good too. I have not seen her other book "Knight after knight" which is historical fiction (no doubt with lots of nice piccies too) but I am looking out for it. * "CITY. A Story of Roman Planning and Construction" written and illustrated by David Macaulay. HarperCollins 1974. ISBN 0 00 192151 7 (HB), 0 00 192157 6 (PB). Paperback, medium format 112p ?4.99. "David MacaulayUs architectural picture books are among the outstanding non-fiction books of recent years" - the Guardian. "Nothing quite compares with David Macaulay's blend of history and architecture" - The Economist. This is another "what can I say" book. It shows the design and construction of an imaginary Roman city, "Verbonia", at the edge of the empire in Persia. "The Romans knew that well planned cities did more to maintain peace and security than twice the number of military camps". It has a city plan, plans of typical "insula", forum, central market, town house, thermae, amphitheatre, theatre, as well as full bird's eye view and side-on pictures of them being built and lived in. Terrific detail is payed to construction methods. The pictures of the completed town as if from an aircraft are reminiscent of the pictues of Pavis. This is *my* Furthest - should I ever need one. He as also done CASTLE, PYRAMID and CATHEDRAL. I have seen CASTLE and it is splendid (as well as being recommended by The Architect's Journal). I would have bought it if I didn't allready have Castle Story. (I will no doubt though). Finally an honourable mention:- * "THE CELTS" by Julia Drum and Harry Sutton. Illustrated by Peter Kesteven. BBC Watch. Heritage Books 1989. Softback, medium format, 32p, ?3.25. This deserves a mention as it is the only picture book on the Celts that I have found. The detail is pretty sketchy as are the stories. There are one or two nice pictures of Forts and Round-houses in this though. The colurfull Illustrations are nice too. It has the right "Sartar" feel (And is Cheap) but is definetely a Kid's book with a "thing's to make" page. I have not mentioned the books about the Greeks as I have yet to find a really good one. However greek history tends to dpawn glorious adult cofee table books like "Greek and Rome at War" which must be the definitive Greek picture book.. Remeber: If you want to order a book from a bookshop all you need is the ISBN number. (Can you tell I used to work for one of Britain's biggest book orderers). Anyway, hope all that is usefull. --------------------------------------------------------- The continuing Varmandisaga.. * I have had loads of handy hints. Thank's all. To those of you who said be "brave and just do it your way". Yup! That's what I always intended to do *but* I just wanted to pick your brains first. What would be the point of having this list otherwise!.. I now have loads of good ideas and, I think, a better understanding of Sartar because of it. * I have heard a rumour that Beatties (the toy shop) bought a load of gaming (esp RQ) packs and couldn't sell them. They have since been selling them off cheap. 4 or 5 quid a pack! Worth a look if you have one in your area. (Sorry all outside the UK). I am off to get Trollpack for 4 pounds. Hooray! * My stead now has Ducks. They fish my lake and raise brave young Humakti. Bolik, as mentioned in WMFTM in now a slightly foppish Humakti warrior with a large hat. He tends the small Humakti chapel (one of only two stone buildings on the stead) which has stone tablets bearing the names of all the brave rebel warriors who have given their lives so far opposing the Lunar Invasion. His wife and sisters-in-law are the fisherwomen. I have just given them a normal stead and made them full members of the clan. Would they be apart in a seperate area? Could they be members of the clan? * Despite advice I am keeping my lake. It isn't that big (2 by 3 miles) and anyway *I* like it. I still don't see why Sartar doesn't have any. Scotland, Eire, Scandinavia, the Alps etc. are *all* full of lakes. Looking at the map of Dragon Pass in the RQII book there is a lake just beside Boldhome. Where has it gone? * I now have first adventure. Orlanth himself will demand a test from my brave young Orlanthi before they can be Initiated. It will appear as a vision to the Ernaldan priestess and will be in the form of a minor hero-quest. Why? Because these young men and women are to be Heros of the coming Hero-War so of course they will be set tests by Orlanth or other similarly heroic happenings. Anyway, visions are great. Here it is: (If any of my player's are reading this - *DON'T*!;-) Orlanth demands a test which shows mastery of his runes before he can allow you into his fold. To demonstrate mastery of the wind Thunderous demands an eagle's feather and the snout of a boar. To show mastery of mobility Adventurous demands a wild dog's tendon. The king of gods demands the crown of a stag to demonstrate mastery of mastery. Orlanth also demands presents for his kin. For Yinkin, a hunt. For Urox a battle againsed chos. For Humakt a kill. For Ernalda you must return a ring. (I know it is a bit of a nasty mish-mash of mythos. But aren't these things always..?) I'll let you know what these all involved once they're played. The last one (the ring) is obvious. The others will turn out to be more of a suprise. * My Bard up the tree is now a terrible composer. A beautiful singer, but a terrible composer. He always want's to try his compositions out though. * One of my players want's to play a poet. He will document all battles and other notable moments in the lives of the young heros. Orlanth Rex is the god of poets is he not? Would that make my poet a noble? I have said probably. No-one else would be able to write and/or have enough spare time for such fey pursuits. * (For anyone who has a clan map) Is Two-Ridge Milani? * Oh yes. I have been leant a copy of "A Rough Guide to Boldhome". It is absolutely brilliant. I wish it was bigger - but then even if it *was* I would wish it was bigger still. Spensor Marksson. haa-haa! Lots of nice wee things. I especially liked the Lunar text on getting there and surviving once there. Can I still buy this? Anyway, that's enough for now. Cheers! Sam. Not Scotland but Sartar. Jonstown Lankhor Mhy book ordering dept.. --------------------- From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland) Subject: Re: Lost today's Daily Message-ID: <9311042243.AA11352@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> Date: 5 Nov 93 00:43:54 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2206 There was a problem with the scheduling of the Daily. The current queue of pending messages should now be flushed on Friday morning. This includes all messages since Wednesday. --------------------- From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) Subject: Gloranthan natural laws: geology and optics (again) Message-ID:Date: 5 Nov 93 06:04:30 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2207 One of my main fun activities with Glorantha is to try and explain Gloranthan phenomenons with pseudo-scientific treatises. One of the problems that occur are the geological "facts" delivered in the Snake Pipe Hollow scenario. The different pieces of strata delivered there would take several hundred million years on Earth, and more importantly the area would have to have been overlayed by sea several times, and the sea would have to have evaporated. If I look at Gloranthan history I find it hard to insert this time inside the legends. Of course the rising of Dame Earth out of the Sea may have taken longer than the myths make us believe, and the process may have been interrupted by flooding of parts of the area again, but the making (sowing) of mountains is recounted as action of Larnste when he went over the surface. Then there is the problem of the rivers running in the wrong direction before the destruction of the Spike. In which direction would the sediment have been transported? Why would water have evaporated, when teh sea always procured new water? Where would the minerals come from, if the sea was still fresh water before the chaos intrusion? Minerals picked up on the way upriver? Oh and what exactly was it Heler did in this time? If rain fell down, where did it go? In reality the rivers are fed by the excess rainfall. If in God-time the Gloranthan rivers flowed uphill, a vast amount of water would have collected in the land, with no reason whatever to evaporate - unless Yelm was a LOT stronger those days, and evaporation accordingly stronger. But then clouds would have hidden the fiery eye of Yelm, and precipitation and evaporation would reach an equilibrium again. This is the reason why I have difficulties with the sentence "The surface geology of Glorantha is much like Earth's." on page 8 in the Glorantha book of G:CotHW. When regular science fails, the activities of deities step in. Which deity would be responsible for sedimentation to occur the normal way even though the conditions wouldn't allow that? Would that be an earth deity, a sea deity, or a sky deity? I think this is as much a can of worms as the problem of the line of sight on Glorantha, which was discussed a while ago by several serious Gray Sages and a certain victim of the Red Moon's lunacy named Columbus Mercator. In my opinion we are called to straighten these problems in an imaginative way, so that we enhance the magic of Glorantha. Purely mundane explanations won't work for the world. -- -- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de --------------------- From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway) Subject: Wishes Message-ID: <9311050803.AA00719@hp0.zycor.lgc.com> Date: 5 Nov 93 08:03:53 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2208 >> From: graeme.lindsell@anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell) >> Date: 1 Nov 93 16:15:17 GMT >> X-RQ-ID: 2160 >> >> Chris Cooke writes: >> >I was just given some disturbing news last night... >> >RQ3 is no longer in print! >> >IS THIS TRUE? >> >> I can't say but didn't someone post here a few months ago that >> Avalon Hill's rights to RQ lapse if they let it go out of print? >> Makes it seem unlikely. On the other hand, we can hope! Why are we still wishing for this? 1. Stafford doesn't seem interested in Chaosium doing it again. 2. Avalon Hill and Ken have been doing very well, lately, if a bit slow. On other subjects, re: >> From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) >> Date: 28 Oct 93 22:47:24 GMT >> X-RQ-ID: 2136 >> ... >> Empire. You can derive some info on the personality of these cults >> from the thumbnail descriptions in GoG and CoP. If I had my damn >> stuff out of storage I could download some cult information on these >> dudes on the net if there were interest. *sigh* If I had some ham I >> could have some ham and eggs if I had some eggs. "if there was interest." ? ^^ Hmmm, maybe we should send a party of Lhankor Mhy and Irripi Ontor types to go start an archaeological dig at Sandy's "U-Store-It" shed? Volunteers? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | john_medway@zycor.lgc.com | Landmark Graphics Corp | 512.292.2325 | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------