(Message inbox:71)
Return-Path: somewhere!appel@erzo.berkeley.edu
Delivery-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:49:29 -0800
Received: by soda.berkeley.edu (5.65/KAOS-1)
id AA02743; Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:49:26 -0800
Received: by erzo.berkeley.edu (5.67/LUCK-AND-DEATH-1.1)
id AA07281; Wed, 10 Nov 93 01:23:46 -0800
Resent-Message-Id: <9311100923.AA07281@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Received: by erzo.berkeley.edu (5.67/LUCK-AND-DEATH-1.1)
id AA07232; Wed, 10 Nov 93 01:12:48 -0800
Received: from Sun.COM by soda.berkeley.edu (5.65/KAOS-1)
id AA00288; Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:22:06 -0800
Received: from snail.Sun.COM (snail.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA22303; Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:20:12 PST
Received: from Holland.Sun.COM (isunnl) by snail.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA24536; Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:20:00 PST
Received: from glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM by Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1e)
id AA28491; Wed, 10 Nov 93 09:19:28 +0100
Received: by glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA23441; Wed, 10 Nov 93 09:15:15 +0100
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 09:15:15 +0100
Message-Id: <9311100815.AA23441@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
From: RuneQuest-Request@glorantha.holland.sun.com (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@glorantha.holland.sun.com (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@glorantha.holland.sun.com (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 10 Nov 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
Resent-To: appel@soda.berkeley.edu
Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 01:23:45 -0800
Resent-From: Shannon Appel
Status: O
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Immortals, Resurrection
Message-ID:
Date: 9 Nov 93 08:44:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2244
Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 2229
>Subject: Lapsed Brithini, etc.
>Sandy said:
>> Obvious the Brithini have little or no religious paraphernalia of any
>> kind, being the strongest atheists in the world. Anyone who converts,
>> dies. All the Brithini who would have converted did, long ago (and died).
>... and their descendents are the Malkioni peoples of the West. No? That's
>how I'm coming to see Malkion's prophetic mission in the Great Darkness: he
>taught the Brithini an alternative way of living, that involved having
>children and accepting death.
Is this the message of Solace?
>As Paul Reilly said:
>> How would we view a colony of people who bred like flies, only lived to
>> age 5, had babies of their own at age 1 or 2, and whose idea of 'civi-
>> lization' extended to what we would call 'Playing House'?
>I love this comparison. It does, however, necessitate a distinction between
>"Malkion, Ancestor of the Brithini" (husband of 'Britha' and father of the
>caste-ancestors, Talar, Zzabur, Horal, Dromal, Waertag and Menena), and
>"Malkion, Prophet of Solace" (who leads the Exodus / Hajr / Secession of
>some of the Brithini, his followers, to other lands of the West).
IMO this is only a temporal distinction. The first is Malkion before both
the first occurance of death and his revelation from the Creator/Invisible
God, the second is Malkion altered by these events.
>This is at present not supported but not incompatible with what we know
>about the West: I am thinking especially of the problem that the Brithini
>(atheists, no afterlife, no morality, no obedience to Malkion's command-
>ments) claim to be the oldest and best Malkioni. If they mean the *other*
>Malkion, it all becomes simple. And, if the name "Malkion" means something
>like "Father of the Nation" or "Glorious Leader" or whatever to a
>Westerner, it would be understandable that the (later, Ice Age) prophet
>would take this mantle on himself.
IMO the Brithini don't claim to be Malkionists in the sense of following the
revelations of Malkion, but the laws of Malkion (issued earlier, it seems).
Malkion to them is the cultural hero who imported the cast system into the
Kingdom of Logic, but who had to be taught about the Creator. These
teachings obviously failed, because Malkion spread the illogical news of
Solace. They didn't fail completely, because (at least some of) his children
keep the way, most prominently Zzabur.
[Esrolites]
>Joerg's "Ancient Celtic" look
>makes sense if you want them to be close to Orlanthi -- though I would
>steer clear of this as there's Ralian queendoms that work this way already.
Are there? Tell us more! But even if there are similar cultures: what's
wrong with that? In both cases (and in Tarsh as well) Orlanthi culture
merged with an older, matriarchal chthonic culture and produced something
unique in detail, but similar in other aspects.
Ok, here's my peace offer: The Esrolites are the parallel to Alternate Earth
Egyptians where the invading Sea Peoples managed to take the lower Egyptian
regions instead of being repelled (around 1300 BC).
I liked the Minoan parallel offered today, too.
Steve Gilham in X-RQ-ID: 2230
>Subject: Re: Resurrection
>I would guess those substitutions to be respectively necessary
>(since Ginna Jar isn't worshipped) and easy (since Flesh Man ties
>up with Daka Fal, in whom all mortals are supposedly
>involuntarily initiated). But by that reasoning, the subject of
>the ritual would have to be a Solar cultist, and probably not
>just an Elmali either!
I agree with Thom that the active roles of the LBQ ought to be played by
cultists (better: Rune Lords) of the appropriate cults. Of course the CA
Resurrect version of it would leave out certain parts not relevant to the
resurrection, and in less demand of a Rune Lord, but the more magic, the
better.
Elmal wasn't slain by Orlanth, so the recipient wouldn't take his role. Yelm
the Emperor, a relative (uncle) of Orlanth, was, and his role is teh passive
one.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: MOSTALI & OTHER STUPH
Message-ID: <9311090900.AA01737@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 9 Nov 93 11:00:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2245
John J. writes:
>MOSTALI & OTHER STUPH
>Cool. Mostali with mechanical eyes grafted onto their faces. Kinda Borg-ish.
>You will be assimilated (into the World Machine ).
>>> an electromagnetic sense (or rather its Gloranthan analogue) would be more
>>> appropriate. The dwarf sense would adapted for underground rather than the
>>> completely different ambient signals above ground.
>Much better idea. Maybe the eyes were added as a response to intrusions and
>having to deal with outsiders?
My dwarfs are sensitive to all kinds of vibrations: the only good
movement is 'Static' movement. Their whole body is a walking
seismograph, with the sensitivity to higher frequencies increasing
as you get closer to the head, which can `see' any kind of radiation.
Maybe the `eyes' would reflect the type of dwarf. I imagine them
as having no pupils at all, just this plain, maybe faceted, disc of metal.
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
---------------------
From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: More magic variants
Message-ID: <199311090945.RAA04162@melomys.cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 9 Nov 93 09:48:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2246
I wasn't really sure wether this should go to the rq4 list or here, but it
seemed to big a change to RQ to leave there. So here it is, suggestions welcome
OPTIONAL RITUAL MAGIC RULES
Here are a couple of ideas for the enchanting rules, that are not
really anything to do with the Studies system, but are real neat. I
would like to stress that these should not apply only to Sorcery. Perhaps
they should apply to all ritual magic, actually, not just enchanting.
Some of them have been floated before, and should be considered again.
NB: the Studies system is my own sorcery draft that I just posted to the rq4
list.
The Law of Contagion
Perhaps items that have some part of the affected person incorporated
within the enchantment do not need to make a resistance roll, but always
affect that person (barring Countermagic, etc.). This enourages paranoia
about hair, fingernail clippings, etc. but does not make it an
everpresent danger (not a combat tactic). Things with less powerful links
(favourite clothes, favourite items, footprints, maybe even signatures)
work to a lesser extent, allowing a bonus to the attackers magic points
for resistance roll purposes.
Perhaps more importantly, it may be possible to cast a spell at someone
who is not visible, but is within range of the spell, using such a
contagious focus. This one really throws things open to all sorts of
troublesome attacks - though no worse than Sense projection allows, really.
SIMILARITY
Bonuses to attack with ritual should also be given on the basis of some
form of similarity. I would imagine that similarity is an important part
of normal ritual magic, so no particular bonuses for using candles as
part of light spells, etc. as this is probably the sort of activity that
the generic ceremony covers already. But a few special cases are worthy
of merit.
A representation of someone probably holds some power, either a bonus to
magic points to overcome them, or an increased chance to cast spells that
affect them. The bonus would depend on how good the representation is -
perhaps either half the artistic skill of the creator, or perhaps the
amount a skill roll is made by.
CORRESPONDENCES
The optional rule that I like the most is that there be a bonus to magic
creation for combining form and function. This should be based on the
combination of the rules of similarity and contagion, and also just on
cultural associations of certain things with certain magics. Some of
these are culturally determined, perhaps, but many are not.
Examples
Shackles - bonuses to Dominate
Bird feathers - bonuses to Fly
Body parts - bonuses to Shapechange to that creature
Eagle feater - bonuses to sight enhancing spells.
Sword - directly harmful magic
bridle - Dominate Horse
Culturally specific examples
Genstones, for example bonuses to necromancy for Green Turquise, bonuses
to mystic vision for saphire, bonuses to fire magic for ruby.
Something like this would give RQ ritual magic a much more interesting
and authentic feel, I think. RQ magic suffers a little from being
somewhat flavourless, particularly sorcery.
AUTHORS NOTE
Obviously these are very rough ideas, but I rather like the ideas, and
would like to open them up to discussion (and RQ4/Rules Companion is the
perfect place to introduce them). Obviously these are not wildly original
idea, I particularly acknowledge Ars Magica and Chivalry and Sorcery (the
Swords and Sorcerers sourcebook and C & S Sourcebook 1 particularly). For
an example of the correspondences idea, Ars Magica has a particularly
good implementation (pg 246 of the 3rd edition).
---------------------
From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance)
Subject: Re: DRAGON PASS AND MAPS THEREOF
Message-ID: <01H53GONB6FM005E5L@UG.EDS.COM>
Date: 8 Nov 93 19:44:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2247
>Show of hands of those who play in Glorantha who'd NOT snap up
>any detail map?
so long as they're consistent, of course.
Couple of years ago I considered digitising and rectifying the
existing maps & quickly gave that idea up as trying to reconcile
the different locations of the same landmarks on different maps -
even just within Dragon Pass - was a non starter. And that's
with a flat world with no worries about having to deal with
discrepant map projections!
---------------------
From: eosgg@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
Subject: Pantheons ...
Message-ID: <9311091346.AA25383@raesp-farn.mod.uk>
Date: 9 Nov 93 13:46:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2248
Geoff Gunner here...
Colin Watson writes on Pantheons and the mechanics of joining. Colin, if you
were a priest of, say, Orlanth, would you want all these farmers coming up to
you offering you 10% of their time ? What would you do with it ? Or 10% of
their crops ? Given Orlanthi society, there's not the strong ecclesiastical (?)
heirarchy of the middle ages when 10% tithe was neede to support all those
priests and other non-productives (!).
IMHO the 10% thing needs ditching. Alas, I don't know what to replace it with.
Any ideas, anyone ?
Geoff.
---------------------
From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: pumpkin heads
Message-ID:
Date: 9 Nov 93 13:58:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2249
Greg Fried here, with a quickie.
Sandy,
You confirm that Jack-o-Bears have their origin in Hungry Jack. Given the
whimsical manner in which, as you tell it, ducks had their genesis, I was
wondering if you could confirm another idle speculation: Is the name 'Hungry
Jack' an ironic take-off from the pancake mix brand-name?
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: creation; scenarios
Message-ID: <9311091555.AA18423@condor>
Date: 9 Nov 93 15:55:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2250
_________________
Joerg Baumgartner wrote:
[re new sorcery spells; esp Creation type spells]
>Any magical creation can be of temporal nature only.
A reasonable premise. Is there a Good Reason for this?
>Light and darkness
>are easy, because they disappear when the source is switched off. How
>about the other substances, especially those which can be consumed?
>Will the substance consumed disappear? Tricky with water in the desert
>or air in a grotto bubble. Will the character which has drunk
>temporally created water become dried out after the duration expired?
Well, remember a month or so ago, towards the end of the spirit plane discussion
Paul Reilly posted an excellent theory about the topology of Glorantha:
"I do tend to think that a fibre bundle is a fairly good model for the
Gloranthan universe. The geometry of the bundle is complicated, but one
slice through it is the mundane plane. Now find every fire on the mundane
plane and mark the fibres at those points. Follow those fibres up to the
'God Plane' and you will find that they all run into Aether, the Source of
Fire."
I like this idea a lot. I think creation-type spells would work by splitting
a new strand off from an existing cosmic-fibre. Where this new strand
passes through the material plane a new source of Fire (or whatever) forms.
The substance created would not be totally new, it would simply come
from an existing source (which might be some distance away) where the bulk
of the fibre is.
When the spell ended, the strand would tend to snap back into its original
place unless some force held it back, so the creation would "vanish".
In the case of water which was "created": if it was left as a puddle or stored
in a bottle I think it would vanish when the spell ended. However, once the
water is drunk it begins to interact with the creature who drinks it; its
fibres become intertwined with fibres of other substances which effectively
lock it in place; ie the strand is split and twisted into a myriad of lesser
strands which do not snap back into the original fibre when the spell ends,
so the water does not vanish.
>Else we already have the Phantom (...) spells which create temporal
>reality.
Yeah, but Phantom (sense) is an active spell for creating complex things.
I was thinking more of creating simple substances (elements) which did not
require active concentration to maintain.
[re scenarios]
>Well, since the pool of possible authors of a scenario and the
>readership of this list do overlap considerably, how would you design
>such a scenario that is more than just visiting the next door dungeon?
Look at successful game systems...
For investigative scenarios look at CoC: The setting can be fairly generic
eg. in a city, in a Big Old House, on a ship etc.
Ok, we need to know the country; sometimes it specifies a particular city (but
not always); sometimes a particular date is given (again, not always); apart
from that, the background given is minimal except where it directly affects
the plot. Once the GM has a firm idea of where the action is going to take
place he can consult source material for the time/place *if* he feels extra
detail is necessary (which I usually don't).
The important things which are needed in an investigative scenario: NPCs
(names, descriptions, motivations), plot, clues (maybe in handout format),
location details (building floorplans etc), EOSM (optional).
For combat scenarios look at AD&D: Background detail is often very localised
so that a whole module can be transplanted into any campaign. Look at
scenarios in "Dungeon" magazine; they are seldom fixed to a specific campaign
world. A "Book of Lairs" for RQ would go down a treat IMHO. The nearest RQ
equivalent I can think of is "Troll Realms" and even that is a bit specific.
Combat scenarios need: various lead-in options, plot, encounters (NPC stats),
location details, EOSM, reward (optional).
(BTW: EOSM="End Of Scenario Monster")
The important thing IMO is that the scenario should be a discrete unit: it
should not rely on background knowledge; it should include enough background
to run the game (and no more). Above all, a scenario is not a good place to
introduce major new fragments of Gloranthan Lore and should not be used as an
excuse for such (all very much My Humble Opinion). I judge scenarios by the
plot and not by the background (the two *are* separable: consider
"Seven Samurai" and "The Magnificent Seven"; same plot, different background).
Maybe I'm asking for the impossible...?
Gloranthan Lore sourcebooks would allow GMs to flesh-out scenario detail if
they wanted. Sourcebooks could contain sample stats for local militias,
encounters etc. which could be slotted into the scenario. Similarly, sample
floorplans of buildings from different cultures could be included. Using this
info, scenarios could be modified if required and tailored to the GMs own
campaign ideas.
I realise that RQ doesn't quite have the megabucks of T$R corp behind it, so my
ideas are probably wishful thinking. But you did ask.
[Why are combined scenario/sourcebooks the current vogue?]
>The reason is simple: Scenarios that dont have a certain informative
>value for Glorantha lovers might not be bought by them. On the other
>hand pure sourcebooks won't sell to non-Glorantha RuneQuesters.
Cynical but, I suspect, largely correct.
>CW>All we can do is voice our opinions ...
>Wrong. All we can do is write a bunch of scenarios etc. that fit the
>bill, and submit them, or make up our own publishing line, such as John
>Castellucci has with his RuneQuest-Adventures.
Time is a factor... (ie. I wish I had more, to write a perfect RQ scenario :-)
Will AH take notice of material sent to them "on spec"? If so, I'll have to try
to convince my GM to type up some stuff - all he does all day is write RQ
stuff (and very good it is, too).
___
CW.