(Message inbox:72) Return-Path: somewhere!appel@erzo.berkeley.edu Delivery-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:49:31 -0800 Received: by soda.berkeley.edu (5.65/KAOS-1) id AA02761; Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:49:28 -0800 Received: by erzo.berkeley.edu (5.67/LUCK-AND-DEATH-1.1) id AA07292; Wed, 10 Nov 93 01:24:11 -0759 Resent-Message-Id: <9311100923.AA07292@erzo.berkeley.edu> Received: by erzo.berkeley.edu (5.67/LUCK-AND-DEATH-1.1) id AA07234; Wed, 10 Nov 93 01:12:49 -0800 Received: from Sun.COM by soda.berkeley.edu (5.65/KAOS-1) id AA00517; Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:23:19 -0800 Received: from snail.Sun.COM (snail.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22381; Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:21:20 PST Received: from Holland.Sun.COM (isunnl) by snail.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24596; Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:21:07 PST Received: from glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM by Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1e) id AA28593; Wed, 10 Nov 93 09:20:54 +0100 Received: by glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23767; Wed, 10 Nov 93 09:16:38 +0100 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 09:16:38 +0100 Message-Id: <9311100816.AA23767@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> From: RuneQuest-Request@glorantha.holland.sun.com (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@glorantha.holland.sun.com (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@glorantha.holland.sun.com (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 10 Nov 1993, part 3 Precedence: junk Resent-To: appel@soda.berkeley.edu Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 01:24:10 -0800 Resent-From: Shannon AppelStatus: O --------------------- From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) Subject: re: RQ Daily Message-ID: <9311092153.AA22746@idcube.idsoftware.com> Date: 9 Nov 93 09:53:27 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2257 Sandy here again. A couple of days ago, David Cake asked me to look over a clever-written guide to the Doraddi he plans to send to TotRM. Since my players spent many years (over a decade in game time) in Pamaltela, much of it in Doraddi territory, I thought I'd propound some of the stuff I used. Some of it was to be in Pamaltela pack (*sigh*). THE MEETING CONTEST When two bands of people meet for the first time, a Meeting Contest is always gone through. If you already know someone in the other band, however, you don't do this -- only the first time you meet strangers. Of course, as a highly nomadic people, the Doraddi go through a lot of these in a year. In the Meeting Contest, first one band proposes a contest. Then the other band proposes a contest, too. Each band selects their champion(s), and they go at it. The band proposing a contest gets to determine all the rules going along with it. Anything is game for a contest -- knot-tying, running a race, tug-of-war, jumping, etc. Combat is exceedingly rare though -- to demonstrate weapon prowess, they generally shoot at a target or hunt down some small fast animal. The contests are also usually fairly short, and the whole affair is over in an hour or two. If one band wins both contests, then the other band must grant them something. The winner can, in theory, ask for anything, but if they ask for something unreasonable, the other band can obviously refuse. The Meeting Contest shows some of the basic facets of Doraddi culture. Note that each band proposes its own contest. Because of this, the outcome of 90% of Meeting Contests is a tie, each champion winning his own contest. Hence, both sides generally feel good about the outcome. Also, because the contests are fun, when the Doraddi meet strangers, they are pleased and excited. The first experience with the strangers is like a sports event, both sides cheering their heroes and mingling with one another. After the Contest, the two groups are generally friendly, if not friends. On the rare occasions that one band wins and gets a boon, they usually pick something that will flatter the other side ("Please tell us why your women are so beautiful." or "Let us have an armslength of that lovely red cloth that adorns you so wonderfully.") WOMEN AND MEN AND MARRIAGE (This particular marriage custom is not universal, but it is fairly common, and it sure brings culture shock to Genertelan PCs in a hurry.) When a man reaches marriageable age (15-25), he usually marries a woman at least 40 years old. She knows how to handle a young sprout like him, has plenty of money, and a nice home. She's a good cook and can teach him many things. Most youths agree that older women make better lovers, too. When the man gets older, his wife ages too. Eventually she dies or retires to an oasis. At that point, he's free to marry again, though now he's middle-aged. However, now he is a man of position and wealth. He can afford the upkeep of a young, pretty wife. And he knows how to cook, and can teach her. So he marries a girl around age 15-25 and the whole cycle starts over. LINEAGES Every Doraddi has a lineage. The determining laws to lineages seem completely arbitrary to outsiders. Lineage controls who you can marry, and sometimes other things, too. Usually lineage is marked right on your body, with tattoos, scarification, or maybe just special decoration (three green ribbons on the left side of your hair, frex). Only members of certain lineages can be Chieftains in the Pamalt cult, and other cults often have restrictions, too. How Lineage is Inherited: sometimes through the mother, sometimes the father, sometimes the maternal uncle. It's different for different lineages, though mother or father lineages are most common. If a particular lineage relationship is extremely complicated, you may have to go to Cronisper to resolve it (Cronisper in the form of an old wise man at a retirement oasis). For instance, 3-Scar Sweetgrass is one of the simpler lineages to figure out. If either of your grandmothers was 3-Scar Sweetgrass lineage, you are, too, but not if one of your parents is also 3-Scar Sweetgrass. Some lineages are "stronger" than others, as determined by tradition. For instance, if your same-sex parent is Stripe Greenberry, then you are, too. Stripe Greenberry is a weaker lineage than 3-Scar Sweetgrass, so if you qualify for both Stripe Greenberry AND 3-Scar Sweetgrass, you are a 3-Scar. One of the strongest lineages is the Ringtop Wildweed lineage. Anyone born within sight of Sunken Eye Oasis is automatically Ringtop Wildweed. Hence, prospective mothers usually widely skirt this place, because Ringtop Wildweed can only marry their own lineage, and none other. It's considered very restrictive. Of course, parents of a Ringtop Wildweed frequently engage in trickery and bribery to get other folks to have kids there, so their own children will have prospective mates. Sometimes lineages "mix", too, producing something different . If your same-sex parent is Stripe Greenberry, and your other parent is White Whiteweed, then you are always Stick-Nose Spiderweed. Unless you also qualify for some lineage stronger than the latter. How Lineages are Named: most lineages are named after the mark you carry, plus some plant. Thus, Stick Earring Roundbush people wear a stick through their left ear, and are named after the common Roundbush plant. When you die, your lineage plant is supposed to grow on your grave. This really works, but is complicated by the fact that part of the burial ceremony is to scatter the appropriate seeds over the site. Some Doraddi practice cremation, but the ashes are still buried. If you're buried somewhere very unsuitable for your lineage plant (like if a Water Lily person is buried atop a hill), the plant may not appear, but pious old men say that the plant did its best to grow, but was killed before it could reach the surface. How Lineage Affects Marriage: every lineage has a complicated set of relationships with other lineages, forbidding marriage with certain other lineages, usually including your own. (Even if you can marry someone from your own lineage, you're still not supposed to marry a sibling, uncle, or aunt, though. That's incest and is covered by other laws. Besides, your close relatives may not be your own lineage.) For instance, if you are 3-Scar Sweetgrass, you can't marry anyone from your own lineage; nor anyone that has a parent belonging to Blue Circle Squaa, unless that person is also Blue Circle Squaa. You also can't marry Stick Earring Roundbush people down to the fourth generation (i.e., if one of their great-grandparents was Stick Earring, they're out). However, you can always marry someone of any Greenberry lineage, regardless of their ancestry. Generally speaking, lineages from far-off lands are rarely covered in the various proscriptions. Hence, folk coming from far away are welcomed, because they are almost always fair game. An otherwise acceptable non-Doraddi (who naturally has no lineage at all) is often besieged by marriage offers from obscure or undesirable lineages. How the Doraddi Keep Track of All This: That's what the old Cronisper guys at the oases are for. Let THEM deal with the questions. Most Doraddi know the details of their own lineage, and a few other common ones, but for most questions, they use the oases. Certainly before you let yourself get too interested in someone as marriage material, you make sure they're of an acceptable lineage. NEXT TIME I WRITE: Details on Jmijie the Wanderer and the Oases. And more on Doraddi society. --------------------- From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke) Subject: Tens of Thousands of Cheerful Cockneys! Message-ID: <931109224622_100270.337_BHB46-2@CompuServe.COM> Date: 9 Nov 93 22:46:23 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2258 _________________ John Medway said: [answering David Dunham] >> Recent scenarios are heavily geared towards a particular sort of >> character. GV is far better the way Nick ran it, for Sun County >> characters. Nick's also told me that _all_ his players run Sun >> County characters. > In my campaign all of the players are Dara Happans or other Pelorians. > They mix between the pantheons of the area ( Moon, Sun, Earth/Beast ), > but all are of the same culture. We've had several somewhat mixed > parties before, and several monolithic ones as well. The very mixed > party usually seems too much a contrivance, and is often inexplicable, > other that in "we need a thief and a ranger and a ... " gaming terms. Clarifying for David: we generated a half-file of Sun Domer characters to run Gaumata's Vision. That was the first time we'd ever played Sun Domers. After the experience, players said they'd like to try it again. I haven't written anything for us to run, yet. In our regular games, we all play Orlanthi Sartarites, from the Lismelder tribe, Greydog clan, and Hodirson household. (Except for Corwen the Humakti, who's a foreigner now, and a couple of clanless nithing outlaws in Whitewall). A game where everyone has the same aims and expectations is more easily devised and directed, and less contrived, IMHO, than the Chinese Menu approach. But both the Sartar campaign and the Sun County scenario are deliberately extreme cases: parochial and/or xenophobic. I'd imagine any Pelorian, Pavic or Holy Country game could comfortably use the "melting-pot" nature of these places to create a plausible mixed party; I'd leave the hassle of motivating them to stick together down to the referee. Having run both kinds of game, I prefer the more monolithic approach as being a better way of seeing how a people or culture might work. We had loads of neat ideas about Sun Domers out of Gaumata's Vision, which (if playing the old "There was a Praxian, a Sartarite and a Yelmalion" party) there'd have been less chance of developing. But then I'm a culture nut, and enjoy that kind of thing. In the end, I find it's easier to role-play appropriately if the other players are expecting you to send out and react to the same signals as they do, and easier to referee a group if you only have to present things, people and events from one perspective at a time. > A trio of tenuously-related questions about WBRM & Dragon Pass: > What ever happened to Androgeus? That's not really one of the thoughts that keeps me awake at night... A far more important question to my mind is, "Whatever happened to Aristos the Philosopher?" My hero, my role model, the Independent Master of Magic... > What range in sizes is there between counters? I generally assume one infantry unit to be around 1000 men (support: Pavis Lunar garrison) and one cavalry unit to be 500 strong. These assumptions underlie what follows, and are indeed central to it. > What percentage of the total forces of the Lunars do the units in > Dragon Pass represent? A biggie. Hope you don't mind me going on a bit... If we use the late Roman Empire as a model for the Lunars, troop strength from the Heartlands ought to be around 1% of total population. A lot of these will be the Sultanate/Satrapy militia; the rest can join the Heartland Corps. Formerly barbarian Satrapies and Provinces can raise perhaps 5-10%. Tribal barbarian peoples (like the Char-un and Hungry Plateau Sables) will have in the region of 20% of their populace available to fight -- in the event of a full mobilisation only! In the normal course of events, a few "units" would serve with the Lunars under treaties; the full strength would be held back until the homeland was threatened. I'm deliberately leaving any unit associated with the Lunar College of Magic out of what follows. LUNAR HEARTLANDS: say, 1% of 5,600,000 Pelorian/Dara Happan/Lunar types. Gives us 56,000 civilised troops. Let's say, 40 units of cavalry and infantry as local forces between the eight "civilised" satrapies (each Satrap would get 3 inf. and 2 cav. counters, on average); the remaining 24,000 troops could make up 18 infantry and 12 cavalry counters of the Lunar Heartland Corps and various Bodyguards. Total: seventy units. In the game: 6 cav + 4 inf HC, 3 + 3 IB, or 11,500 of my hypothetical 24,000 Heartland Corps soldiers are represented. I'd say add 2 + 2 Sister's Army (another 3,000 troops), and a load more Phalanxes. Then eat some when the Brown Dragon rises, and hold others back as a reserve inside the Empire. SYLILANS: 5% of 400,000 Sylilans gives 20,000 auxiliary types (peltasts and skirmishers), probably mostly footmen (maybe 2,000 cavalry), some of which will be militia or household troops while others will serve as auxiliaries with the Heartland Corps. (The absence of peltasts from WB&RM / DP pains me, and is here remedied). Total: say twenty-two units. PROVINCES: Let's say 10% of 800,000: 80,000 troops. Most of these will be about as good as the Native Furthese. Tarsh, with pop. 360,000, is shown having 7 inf + 3 cav, or 8,500 troops by my reckoning, come the Hero Wars. I'd say the some of the "others" are not mustered for active service (garrison duty inside the Glowline), but that many of them were eaten by the Brown Dragon (the Tarsh Provincials being the bulk of the Provincial Army under Fazzur and his successor, therefore getting the crunch something terrible when Tatius' schemes backfired). CARMANIA: say, 5% of 200,000 Carmanians as knights and heavy footmen, with 1% of 700,000 Pelorians as potential footmen. Gives you (say) six counters of Carmanian Knights, seven of Heavy Foot, and (up to) seven counters of Peasant Militia. Total: twenty units. In the game: Count Alehandro's mercenary "Queens' Regiment" (est. 500 men), plus a load more back home for when the rightful Shah returns (or whatever...). CHAR-UN TRIBE: 20% of 130,000 gives 26,000, or (f**king hell!) *52* counters if they move out... One unit in the Lunar Battalia is named Char-Un, and I'd bet they make up a large number of the Cavalry Corps (total of 10 cavalry units, 5,000 troops per NB otherwise unidentified, though some of these may be classic Dara Happan cavalry or Carmanians). Ever feel Kaufan Destrino's building the Great Wall of Carmania in the wrong direction? SABLE TRIBE: 20% of 40,000 gives 8,000, or 16 counters if the whole strength of the Sables were to move out from Hungry Plateau. Presumably the Antelope Lancers in the countermix represent their contingent serving with the Cavalry Corps at any time. THUNDER DELTA SLINGERS: I dunno. Make up some number. The game has 4 units showing, but I can't work out how well the Lunars can recruit them. BLUE MOON TROLLS: classified state secret. Don't even think about it... The above tedious mechanical number-crunching speculation should give us some kind of framework to work from (or argue about). It seems the Heartland Corps on the board is nowhere near the full strength of the Lunar army, and that a load of "counters" could be mustered from the various barbarian provinces and allies. The fact that they aren't raises questions about how safe it would be to do so... remember how Rome fell, anybody? ("Well, Caesar, we'll just ask our army of Germans to guard the frontier with the Germans..."). Especially, I'd be surprised to see large numbers of Carmanians, Char-Un or Sables committed outside of the West Reaches, Erigia, or the Hungry Plateau. Those are their homelands; taking all the troops away would leave them completely defenceless. Sartar is fortunate to be fighting a war on its home ground, allowing the use of desperation measures to maximise its available manpower. In conversation with Greg, he's said that the countermix for Dragon Pass greatly overemphasises the role of cavalry in the Lunar army. It has lost several infantry counters from White Bear & Red Moon (the Beryl Phalanx, Nest Thieves, Iceland Starclubs, and University Guards). Certainly, any rational observer would expect to see more Phalanxes, and some Peltasts (where did the Silver Shields spring from, eh?). I'd guess this is where the bulk of the "unallocated" Heartland Corps and Sylilan troops should go. I've probably left something important out above, and stress that my assumptions (all stated, I hope) are open to all sorts of challenges. > Hmm, using RunePower, how is a characters *use* of 5 points in an > extension questioned/kept in check if they'll not have enough left > over for SunRipen or some other culturally useful spells? (1) By GM intervention. Same way you'd intervene to stop a Humakti casting a Sever Sword underhandedly or inappropriately. (2) [v. player-unfriendly!] -- assume that not only do normal cult duties take up 90% of a priest's time, they require 90% of his RunePower as well! (Replace with any lower amount that seems reasonable). Or find some way of linking the amount of RunePower a priest has free to cast for his people to their general social prosperity and success (perhaps using some Pendragon- esque yearly die rolls). They should snap out of it after the first famine or tribal/military disaster strikes their followers/flock/congregation... > The common Pelorians and soldiers speak with a Cockney accent, too. Did you think through the implications of this? Well, brace yourself... The story of the Zero Wane is the story of red-headed Little Orphan Teelo, the waif from Torang who won the hearts and minds (and souls) of a mighty Empire. But it's also been adapted as a musical: "My Fair Goddess!" Can Professor Irrippi Ontor manage (as a wager) to pass a chirpy Cockney girl from the streets off as an immanent deity? Will Pelorian society fall for his cunning deception? Surprisingly, yes... Yours, basking in the Lunar Glow, ==== Nick ====