Bell Digest v931111p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 11 Nov 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk

X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest
format.

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


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From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Pantheons; seven?
Message-ID: <9311101059.AA12959@condor>
Date: 10 Nov 93 10:59:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2264


____________
Geoff Gunner wrote:

>Colin Watson writes on Pantheons and the mechanics of joining.  

Hm, I think this might have been wrongly attributed...
...but I'll answer anyway, what the hell. ;-)

>Colin, if you
>were a priest of, say, Orlanth, would you want all these farmers coming up to
>you offering you 10% of their time ?  What would you do with it ?  Or 10% of
>their crops ?

Well, it *is* a lot of wealth that they're offering. If I set them to farming
the temple fields it would generate even more... But, in reality I'd probably
send them off to work at the Ernalda temple. She can owe me.
And in return, during times of war, I'd request that all the worshippers
sign up for the local militia.

>Given Orlanthi society, there's not the strong ecclesiastical
>heirarchy of the middle ages when 10% tithe was neede to support all those
>priests and other non-productives (!).

I dunno, I think there are still going to be a fair number of non-producing
types areound. And Priests tend to "need" a better standard of living than
the average farmer, to the extent that they consume maybe 10 times the wealth
of a farmer. So with a 10% tithe you need about 100 initiates to support
a priest. Sounds about right to me.

_____
Henk:

>Don't forget "Battle beyond the Stars"...

I was trying to... |-(
Goes to show: no matter how nice the plot is, it still helps to have a
good GM and reasonable players.
(Decent special effects would help too:-)

___
CW.

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From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Doraddi Kinship
Message-ID: <01H563D4B46E94HIP1@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 11 Nov 93 11:02:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2265

G'day one-and-all,
I've been lurking for a good while (been busy putting issue #11 of ToTRM to bed
as well as preparing to move house in only a fortnight's time from now!).

Sandy's article on Doraddi Lineage prompted me to write in.

The Great Southern Land issue of Tales (issue #11 - due out kinda soonish)
will be covering the topic of Kinship and Lineage in a BIG WAY

John Hughes (Tales resident anthropologist) has written a detailed article
covering kinship and lineage in both Pamaltelan Doraddi and Sartarite
Orlanthi societies.  Look out for "Blood is Stronger than Death" in 
Tales #11!

We're also featuring a lengthy scenario by John and his wife Phillipa
called "Three Women Dancing Dreaming" - which takes the kinship article
and turns it into a scenario which will blow your PC's minds.  Leave your
metal armour and dice at home please!

I look forward to reading more of Sandy's material as it appears on the
digest, and I'm sure you'll all get a lot out of the Pamaltela Special
(Pamaltela is a BIG PLACE and there's heaps of material for another
Pamaltela special further down the track!)

Back to putting stuff in boxes,

Cheers,

MOB

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From: staats@MIT.EDU
Subject: Life, the Universe and the evolution of Glorantha and RQ
Message-ID: <9311101606.AA28035@bolognese>
Date: 10 Nov 93 16:06:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2266

Greetings!

	First off, I am really impressed with the Daily's as of late.  They
have been packed with great material!  Good job one and all!

	I just wanted to voice a defense of Greg and Sandy's position on
changing the "history" of Glorantha.  My perception is that a lot of the
folks who subscribe to the Daily are *long* time RQ players/GM's; I fall
in that catagory too.  Campaigns change over time.  From my own experience,
many of my players have families of their own now and run their own
campaigns.  Some of them have been so kind as to set scenarios in portions
of my fantasy world.  The world has evolved as time has gone on.  I am a 
shameless thief of "good" fantasy ideas and can usually find a place in the
world to interpose a good system or tidbit.  Sometimes that involves a subtle
reordering of some bit of myth or legend, and it is the *little* changes
that cause the biggest stirs.  I try to stay in contact with a fair number
of gamers after they leave the campaign (e.g. finish school, get new jobs,
begin raising families, etc.), and more than once I have heard the statement
"Rich, that isn't how it was when we played; it was different in this [subtle]
way."  The drawback that Greg and Sandy have is that they *published* their
ideas --- for which we are all thankful!  (None of use would know about RQ
or Glorantha if they did not.)  For the typical GM out there, the campaign is
mostly an oral tradition.  Whereas my old players and I can chat about
the differences in the campaign over the years while enjoying dinner and 
talking about kids in college, Greg and Sandy have written legacies which are
subject to scrutiny by us all.

	The longer a campaign runs, the more subject it is to changing.
I shudder to think what differences a large audience would find between
my campaign in 1979 and the current edition of it.    ;-)
Greg's Glorantha started out as an imaginary exercise long before there even
was a RuneQuest.  Most readers find subtle differences in Tolkien's world
from his first stories to the last as well.  He was just clever in that
Tolkien described these differences as the natural chaos (small "c" type chaos)
inherent in passing on the legends of Middle Earth.

	Greg, Sandy, Frank, Lynn, Ken, et.al. keep up the great work!

	In service,

	Rich

	


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From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9311101657.AA24306@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 10 Nov 93 04:57:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2267

Geoff Gunner asks:

> if you were a priest of, say, Orlanth, would you want all these 

> farmers coming up to you offering you 10% of their time ?  What 

> would you do with it ?  Or 10% of their crops ?

You bet I would. "Work on the temple crops every Thursday, Olaf." I'd  
say, and assign other farmers other days, thus I could keep the crops  
going, support myself, my family, and various shrines. If I had  
enough guys to take care of the crops, I could ask Olaf to guard the  
temple once every ten days, or to take a special part in a worship  
ceremony that required a week or two of preparation.

10% of a farmer's crops is a highly valuable commodity. If it is  
grain, you can store in a warehouse (like the ancient Egyptian  
priests did), if it is wine, you can store it for decades. If it is  
live animals, you can add it to your own herd. 


Greg Fried asks:

> Is the name 'Hungry Jack' an ironic take-off from the pancake mix 

> brand-name?

I don't know. I never made that particular connection myself, not  
being a big flapjack mix purchaser. But "Jack" is the perfect name  
for a pumpkin, anyway.

Rune Level Responsibilities: a personal note

In my own campaigns I have normally had one or two Rune levels (out  
of 5-8 players) at a time. (Counting shamans and acolytes as Rune  
levels.) As time progresses, I have not had the number of Rune levels  
grow, because the players tend to retire such characters regardless  
of cult. They don't do this because I impell them, rather it seems to  
happen because the characters tend to want to take on more  
responsibilities, eventually acquiring a sort of social conscience.

The classic case of this was the lengthy Exiger adventure. This  
episode was loosely based on the Seven Samurai. The players fought a  
(game) year-long campaign against the villainous Exigers, finally  
winning and freeing all the poor Menial farmers from their tyranny.  
And also training the farmers to fight on their own behalf. During  
the fight, one player got very attached to his Sword of Humakt,  
Harmast Nightblade. During the campaign a group of the younger  
menials had been initiated into Humakt (Harmast was the first "true"  
Humakti they'd seen -- the Exigers worshiped Humct) and started  
calling themselves the Harmasti. At the end of the campaign, the  
party got ready to head down into the mysterious plains of Jolar, and  
suddenly Harmast balked. "I've got to go back!" he cried, "I can't  
leave my people without a leader." and the player promptly retired  
Harmast from active play. This was a difficult decision on his part,  
especially because he'd just started Heroquesting with that character  
(he used the Quest For Ten Strikes to eliminate one of the Exiger  
leaders), and I the GM was clearly grooming Harmast as potential Hero  
material.

Dave Dunham asks:

> how far can you see the Block?

Hmm. I always assumed you couldn't see it from Sartar, but I never  
really considered it before. It seems to me that, since the Block  
produces no light of its own, and is (I think) over 100 miles from  
Boldhome, the haze in the air must block it from view except maybe  
from high mountains on a very clear day. I've seen mountains that  
were over 50 miles away over flat terrain on a very clear day in  
Utah, but they were mighty empurpled.  


re: NEXT TIME I WRITE

I should have said, next time I expound at length. I won't have time  
to write up the Jmijie stuff today. Perhaps tomorrow or Saturday.  
Sorry all.

Nick Brooke sez: 


>[lots o' stuff about Lunar troop strength]

Your estimates look pretty good to me. I can't imagine the Char-un  
ever sending 1/5 of their entire population to help the Lunars fight.  
If the Lunars were in that big of trouble, the Char-un would start  
looking to their own backyard. Of course, most of the provincial  
militias would not ever serve outside their home province. I think  
that the "peltasts" you're looking for in the Lunar army are the  
Thunder Delta Slingers. With these guys who use magical slingstones  
to act as skirmishers and missile support, the Dara Happan regulars  
can concentrate on learning to march in step in their massed  
phalanxes. Also, I expect that in Glorantha magic attacks take the  
place of massed missiles to harass and disrupt opposing troops. I  
don't mean powerful magic here, just battle magic, petty attack  
spirits, an occasional initiate wasting his one-use Lightning, etc.

> Did Malkion teach anything about Solace (continued existence after 

> death, anathema to Brithini) or any morality based on not Tapping 

> (Brithini do it all the time)? 


According to the Brithini, no. But then Malkion appeared a very long  
time ago (at the start of the Darkness), and maybe parts of the  
message were ignored as irrelevent by desperate folk seeking only to  
survive till the next dawn.

> Did he believe in and preach the existence of the Invisible God 

> (the Brithini are called atheists)? 


The Brithini admit to the existence of what the Malkioni term the  
Invisible God. But they don't worship him, or believe there is any  
power in so doing. 


> Agreed, (almost) all modern sects of Malkionism derive their 

> teachings from Hrestol's revelation: but I find it hard to accept 

> that before Hrestol the whole population of the West were "pious" 

> Brithini.

Given the speed with which Hrestol's revelation spread among the  
Westerners, I'd have to agree with you. I suspect that many of the  
Seshnegi in those days were what we might term "bad" Brithini: they  
adhered to the basic Brithini mores, but didn't maintain them  
perfectly enough to achieve immortality. No doubt this was a great  
source of worry to them, and Hrestol's revelation a big relief.

Malkonwal was a Brithini city. The fact that the Brithini, today, are  
a cold and repellent folk does not mean that they were always so. The  
Brithini during the Darkness carried the torch of civilization and  
did many important, even ennobling things. The Malkioni still respect  
them for this, in much the same manner as Americans still have some  
respect for the cold, repellent British from whence our culture  
sprang (joke). 


re: Yelm and Chaos

My own belief is that, in general (personal prejudices may always  
override cult ones), Yelm folks feel that Chaos and Darkness are  
equivalent. Storm gods are bad, but at least Orlanth saw the error of  
his ways. This doesn't mean his sins should ever be forgiven, but he  
is one evolutionary step higher than the pond scum Zorak Zoran  
belongs to. Yelm does remember Chaos, and part of his legend is his  
heroic return from Hell, in which he fought off wave after wave of  
loathsome chaos entities (and Darkness, too). And in so doing saved  
Orlanth, who had come all the way into Hell to apologize for his  
sins, and who could not make his way out again. 


---------------------

From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: Tithing
Message-ID: <9311101732.AA11327@Sun.COM>
Date: 10 Nov 93 16:40:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2268

>Geoff Gunner here...

> ...

>IMHO the 10% thing needs ditching.  Alas, I don't know what to replace it
with.
>Any ideas, anyone ?

I think it should be made clear (in the rules) that the tithe is 10% of
silver/gold on the appropriate seasonal holy day. 10% of income is a very
clunsy mechanic. At the moment the position is ambiguous. All except the very
rich or very pious would make sure that most of their money has gone on more
important things. For an ordinary Orlanthi this would be supporting your family
(tools, cloth, food ...). For a Pavic mercenary it might be a drunken binge
(didn't the travels of Biturian in CoP mention this ...). Very stingy Orlanthi
might be visited by the impests.

Thom

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From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: Tithing and time
Message-ID: <9311101733.AB11327@Sun.COM>
Date: 10 Nov 93 16:50:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2269

Sorry my post on tithing got sent before I got around to the time part of the
time and money equation.

10% of time should be an approximation (probably an upper limit). As with the
other mundane requirements it should be subject to interpretation by the local
priest. I suspect that, for most initiates, this is done on a community basis
... helping repair a temple wall, building a new shrine and so forth
(organizing creches, coffee mornings, jumble sales ...?). Player characters
(usually prone to travelling) will be the exception - running errands, going on
missions, guarding the temple. They will be especially keen to impress their
priest (particular if they are worshipping at a new temple).

Thom

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From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: DI again ...
Message-ID: <9311101734.AB11327@Sun.COM>
Date: 10 Nov 93 17:10:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2270

D. Cheng writes:

>Divine Intervention lacks the strict structure of Rune Magic, 
>however.  The worshipper burns off some POW and says "hey, big 
>guy, help me out here!"  This intervention by the deity, being 
>less structured, is a bigger violation of the Compromise.  To 
>allow this to happen, you've got to sacrifice something: that 
>being POW.  Without the loss of POW, the god couldn't intervene 
>at all.  Otherwise, the gods would be granting their favorite 
>servants all sorts of miracles.

This is my rationale for DI ... the power has to come from the worshipper
because the God is bound by the compromise.

Thom

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From: andy@noc.unt.edu (Andy Mears)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 08 Nov 1993, part 2
Message-ID: 
Date: 10 Nov 93 05:39:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2271

UNSUBSCRIBE


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From: sullivam@mlc.lib.mi.us (Mark Sullivan -- Michigan Library Consortium)
Subject: Comments to Nick Brooke
Message-ID: 
Date: 10 Nov 93 11:11:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2272


Nick Brooke had a lot of good stuff to say:

> Clarifying for David: we generated a half-file of Sun Domer characters
> to run Gaumata's Vision. That was the first time we'd ever played
> SunDomers. 

 (1) What size file do you mean for the Sun Domer's?

If memory serves, Spartan files were 8 phalangists with 3 files + an
officer making an enomotia or platoon of 25 men (the officer was an
Enomotarch).  Two of these platoons (What the heck is the pluralization in
Greek?) made up a pentekostyes of 50 men led by a Pentarch. Two
pentekostyes made up a lochagos of 100 men led by a Lochagos.  Four to six
lochagi (I think thats pl,) made one mora led by a Polemarch (rank =
trireme captains, I think). Several mora (or morai, who knows, why can't
everyone speak a nice easy, reasonable language like American? ;-) ) were
commanded by a Strategoi (colonel or general) and this usually made up a
Phalanx.  Thus the Sun Dome Temple units on the board might be about 1 or
2 morai for your estimated unit sizes in WBRM/DragonPass or 2 to 4 morai
if one likes Sandy's estimate better. 

LEADER          UNIT                   # MEN
file leader     file                       8
Enomotarch      enomotia                  25
Pentarch        pentekostyes              50
Lochagos        lochagos                 100
Polemarch       mora                 400-600
Strategoi       phalanx           several morai   

I *really* like the Sun Domers = Spartans analogy.  That really helps to
get a different martial feel compared to Celtic/Saxon/Viking warrior
Humakti. 

> In our regular games, we all play Orlanthi Sartarites, from the

> Lismelder tribe, Greydog clan, and Hodirson household. (Except for

> Corwen the Humakti, who's a foreigner now, and a couple of clanless

> nithing outlaws in Whitewall). 
     
 (2) Who/what/where are the Lismelder tribe, Greydog clan, etc.?
I am a fairly new subscriber, so if you have already answered 
you could just tell me what Digest it is in and I can look it up.

Thanks for the Lunar Army number crunching.
The premise that only a portion of the Empire's
forces are (or can be) allocated to fight in 
Dragon Pass seems to be a good one.

However, since the Lunar Sable folk have been a 
part of the empire since the Assault on Glamour 
(in 1275 or 1/28 according to an old copy of
Greg's History of the Lunar Empire), I think
that your 20% max mobilization may be too high.
Seems like nearly 350 years of exposure to 
Lunar culture and luxuries may have softened
them compared to traditional Praxians.

Same goes for the Char-un.  Which may help with 
those *52* counters.  ;-)

Re: My Fair Goddess
Great idea.  And I suppose that she will sing
 "The rain in Torang falls mainly on the plain"

 * Mark Sullivan *
 *****************