Bell Digest v931116p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 16 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID: 
Precedence: junk

X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest
format.

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


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From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9311151835.AA00580@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 15 Nov 93 06:35:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2326

Sandy Petersen
re: Illumination

The internal attitude within the Lunar Empire is ostensibly such that  
both Malia and Chalana Arroy are acceptable goddesses for protection  
against disease. Obviously, in rural areas this may not hold so well.  
Also Malia initiates, as a member of a "Dangerous" cult, must be  
licensed. This also applies to other dangerous cults such as Humakt  
and Issaries (the former because their members can have geases  
forcing them to distrust certain races or cults; the latter because  
they could have any rune spell through Spell Trading). The Malia  
licensing is more stringent than Humakt or Issaries, though.  


Nick Brooke sez:

(re: a ct by me that Rightarm Island in a DP-type game should provide  
the ability to control the tides)

> That's a Blue Moon speciality, and incidentally one that would be 

> *really* dangerous against flat, low-lying Esrolia. I'd give any 

> such power to the Lunars; the Rightarm special is the navy, which 

> is going to be better than those cruddy Corflu triremes.

This is a cogent point by Nick, and one that forces me to reconsider.  
The reason I suggested tide-controlling here was because in the old  
MASTERS OF LUCK AND DEATH game there was a guy called the Master of  
Tides living on an island out in the bay, and if you allied him, you  
could control the tides. Maybe he should still be there as an exotic.  
How about this: the Lunar Blue Moon guys get the power to control the  
tides as an exotic magic power, and so does the Master of Tides. If  
the Pharaoh manages to ally the Master of Tides, then he can use his  
power to cancel out the Blue Moon effect when invoked. 


> Think of the Lunar navy as like the Romans in the Punic Wars.

I think the Lunar navy is amazingly inferior to the Romans in the  
Punic wars. Not only do the Lunars not have any but river sailors in  
their nation, but I don't think they have any competent oceangoing  
shipbuilders. All their seagoing vessels are doubtless purchased or  
built under contract. And most of their sailors are probably  
mercenaries, too. This is good for RQ, of course. It means that a  
Lunar expedition of any sort (including mercantile) has to hire  
skilled outsiders (i.e., PCs) to work for them. 


re: Tax Collection in the Lunar Empire

The Red Goddess, as deity of freedom, lets all local organizations  
operate in just the same fashion as they used to do. However, the  
central bureaucracy does have inspectors who periodically assess the  
various provinces and realms (tax districts) and assign a tax value.   
So long as the proceeds from those provinces are equal to the  
assigned value, the Red Emperor doesn't care how it's governed. If  
the receipts run short, the Tax Demons are sent to visit the ruler of  
the area. Excuses and reasons for lack of payment can then be  
presented to the Demons (so far, the Demons have not been  
particularly understanding). 


Of course, it's more complicated than this, because there are  
empire-wide organizations to check up on potential shortfalls. The  
real purpose of the Tax Demons seems to be to keep the Dart  
Competitions from harming the empire's finances. 


David Dunham sez: 


> I too have always been bothered about the Greek shift from what 

> looks like bronze to linen. 


This might have been done for non-combat reasons. The classic hoplite  
is one of the best-armored characters in world history, but most  
armies that succeeded him in history had less stuff. The Romans, for  
instance, wore metal armor on their torsoes, but their helmets were a  
lot smaller and they lacked leg armor. Of course, the Romans had to  
march all over the place, carrying their crap on their back. And they  
had to move pretty fast once they were on the battlefield, too. 


One reason for the Greek shift might have been the fact that the  
Greek citizen-soldiers had to pay for their own damn armor. Since you  
don't fight very often (with luck, never in your lifetime), why spend  
so much on the stuff? At least one source of mine states that a major  
reason for the abandoning of armor in the 15th and 16th centuries was  
the fact that the cost of armor was deducted from the troops' pay. If  
you were an armored pikeman instead of a musketeer, this probably  
preyed on your mind. And since the cost of armor was going up ...

> I'd like to correct myself.  Clearly, Babeester Gor provided the 

> Shield of Arran to Orlanth during the Great Darkness, which is 

> where Wind Lords get the Great Parry rune spell.  Maybe Urox was 

> Orlanth's codpiece?

"Codpiece" has a lot of appeal, and I'm sure it is well-documented in  
Gloranthan sources. It's clear that, whatever else he is, the Storm  
Bull is Orlanth's bull. One of the heroquests available to Orlanth  
Rex is to go to the top of Stormwalk mountain and capture a bull from  
the herd up there (guarded by a giant herdsman and his magic dog).  
This gives them a sky bull of their very own. If, instead, the  
Orlanth Rex manages to completely defeat the herdsman, he has Tamed  
the Bull, and from then on has power over berserks. This is one part  
of Orlanth's greater heroquest to prove his dominance over his  
brethren, in which not only the Bull, but Vadrus, Humakt, etc., must  
be conquered. 


Peter Michaels sez: 


> please do tell why Praxpack is probably-not-going-to-be-published.

Maybe it WILL be published. It's just that I haven't heard any word  
on it for a long time. I.e., have not received back the manuscript so  
I can finish it up, stuff like that. I guess I just assumed AH had  
lost interest in it. Myself, I'd love to see it in print. 


Joerg Baumgartner asks:

>You regard only the Hrestoli (or later) sects/heresies as Malkioni?

I guess my tendency is to refer to all the cultures stemming from the  
Brithini and accepting worship of the Invisible God along with the  
basic strata of society as Malkioni. Technically the Brithini are  
Malkioni, too, but they're so different from the others, I generally  
exclude them from the category. Like when we say "animal", sometimes  
we really just mean "mammal". The Vadeli, of course, aren't Malkioni  
at all. The Waertagi have strong connections to the Malkioni, but  
once more aren't really Malkioni. Plus they're not really humans. 


> The Biturian Varosh story about Yelmalion justice (CoP, reprinted 

> in Sun County) seemed to equalize all Lightbringers. Why else 

> should an Issaries trader pose as a Storm enemy in a minor Yelmalio 

> heroquest?

In the story it's clear that the Yelmalio are real hard up for a  
Storm enemy, and they got to do their quest. At least Issaries is an  
associate of Orlanth. I doubt they'd have used a Chalana Arroy, if  
she'd been around, though. One of the reasons for the general dislike  
of Yelmalions in Sartar and the Wastes is their strict interpretation  
of by-the-letter rules and mores. For instance, they're known as big  
liars BECAUSE they tell the strict truth. If you ask a Yelmalion,  
"Can you tell me where the secret  hideout is?" He may well answer,  
"No." though he knows, because he rationalizes that he can't tell or  
he'd get in trouble. An Orlanthi would be less likely to  hide the  
truth, and forthrightly say, "I'll never tell you, you murdering  
bastards." The going saying about the Yelmalions is, "Their words are  
as sweet and as firm as honey."

Basically, their enemies feel that to the Yelmalions, truth is so  
precious that it needs to be doled out. As in many stereotypes,  
there's something behind this. 


> But Gloranthan stuff about Ygg's islands ... would be welcome, too

The entire intent  behind Ygg's Islands is to provide a Gloranthan  
home for the Vikings Pack. Basically, the Ygg's Islanders are just  
like Vikings, except their gods have different names and histories.  
Most of the non-Gloranthan stuff published by Chaosium was given a  
home somewhere in Glorantha, for the convenience of the house  
campaigns. This is why Refuge = Sanctuary, for instance. 


> where in Peloria do we find the descendants of the other interim 

> rulers the arious Theyalan incursions on Dara Happa (Argentium 

> Thri'ile, Arkat's Gbaji-hunt, the EWF expansion) drew from Praxian 

> nobility and imposed on the Pelorian natives? Are (or were) there 

> Rhino-, Impala-, Bison- and Alticamelus- chieftains become 

> nobility?

I know for a fact that there is at least one Lunar dynasty of nobles  
who traditionally train bisons to ride. However, they're good Lunars,  
and only the Irrippi Ontor sages in town know why that dynasty has  
that custom. I'm sure there are other traces of such activity. 


Peloria acts a little like China to its conquerors -- most are  
eventually assimilated. Only (some of) the horse barbarians and the  
Sable Riders of Kostaddi have avoided this fate. The Sable Riders  
survived because they had the Hungry Plateau nearby to keep their  
traditions alive. The horse barbarians used the same tricks as the  
Manchus (keeping a deep gulf alive between conquered and conqueror),  
which is why they kept getting ousted. 


> (Sandy said) the Wolfrunners are generally unfriendly to the other 

> Sartarite tribes, they would NOT ally with the Lunars against a 

> Prince of Sartar.

> (Joerg said) So Sandy can be Gregged, too: KoS, p.26: "... the 

> werewolf folk turned against Argrath

Argh! Cut to the quick. Et tu, Joergus? I'm amused that "Gregged"  
seems to be becoming a verb.

> Cragspider's 6-6-6-X might well be uzdo, not uzko. 


I have always assumed that they were uzdo, perhaps with some uzko  
officers. After all, Cragspider invented the breed. She's supposed to  
have the most of anybody. 


>(Sandy said) The great Lunar innovation in combat was that they were 

> the first  people ever to organize magicians into military units.

> (Joerg asks) How come the Exile magicians then?

Because at the time DP was designed, the facts behind this Lunar  
development were not yet clear. IMO, the Exile magicians should be  
dumped, their factors melded into the other Exile units. Or,  
alternatively, say that since they've been forced to live right next  
to Tarsh, and also picked up some tricks from Sartar, that they've  
emulated this style of battle. 


> (Joerg asks -- slaver visible even clear across the ocean) So it 

> (i.e., Masters of Luck and Death) existed? What was its
> distribution? (i.e., how do I get my grubby hands on it?)

Sorry, Joerg. Its distribution was one (1) hand-made copy for which  
the rules are now missing. I just remember some of the units. The  
Mother of Monsters (who has sinced been moved to Pamaltela) was a  
unit in the game, too, and she'd spawn a monster unit every turn, the  
exact type varying with what height the tides were at that night. 


> I'm not so certain whether the Barbarian Horde is Praxian or 

> Orlanthi from Barbarian Town. Any offers?

The Barbarian Horde is a bit like the storm-worshiping Pentans,  
though it's parallel evolution, not derivatory. Their members are  
mostly ex-Praxians or descendants of same, with a few Orlanthi  
outlaws or outcasts. Within the tribe you'll see representatives of  
every Praxian racial type. The deities worshiped are Orlanth, Storm  
Bull, and Eiritha. (Ernalda doesn't get much truck with these guys.)  
They are called the "Bastard Tribe" by other Praxians, not because of  
their personalities but because they mix animals; riding horses while  
herding cattle. Their overall behavior is more Praxian than Orlanthi,  
and they participate in raiding, so you'll find bison, impalas, etc.,  
in a Pol-Joni herd. Barbarian Town is primarily organized for their  
benefit, and is a little like the trading towns that sprang up in  
Cossack territory; i.e., a wild brawling place made up mainly of  
tents and ramshackle huts. Most of the population are transients.

The Pol Joni don't go much into the Wastes, and generally stick to  
the good ground on the border between Prax and Dragon Pass, though  
raiding parties are found everywhere in Prax. From Sartar's point of  
view, the Pol Joni act as a good buffer against the other nomads.  
From the Pol Joni point of view, the Sartarites are a useful source  
of trade goods, and it's good to keep nearby. 


MORE PRAXIAN STUFF

General:

Praxian tribes follow their animals' lives and life cycles. When in  
doubt, pick up a good book on animal behavior and see what it says,  
then try to apply it to the tribe in question. The tribes are  
subdivided into clans (each clan has its own khan) and households.  
The individual counters in Nomad Gods are generally clan-sized. Some  
tribes insert the further subdivision of septs between clans and  
households. 


The wife owns the herd animals and most of the goods of the  
household. The husband owns only his riding animal(s), weapons, and  
spoils of war. A typical well-off nomad, with an average household  
consisting of a wife and 5 "others" has around 50 cows. About half  
the cows are allowed to give birth to a calf in a year. The other  
half of the cows are used solely for providing milk (a condition in  
which they won't get pregnant). Male calves are generally eaten, but  
female calves are usually allowed to grow to adulthood to expand the  
herd. Most nomads ride male animals, since they don't get pregnant,  
and they're often larger than females.  Foreign animals are prized,  
because you can eat them instead of your own animals, thus saving one  
or more of your own calves. Old cows that have stopped given milk are  
also eaten, as are injured or elderly riding animals. Most nomads  
hardly ever eat one of their own tribal animals in its prime -- only  
as a calf or as an old or sick beast or rarely for a special feast.  
Of course, this makes foreign animals even more interesting. 


During normal times, an Eiritha woman leads the clan. During wartime  
or other crises, the Waha Khan is in charge. He gets to decide  
whether it is a time of crisis or not. 


BISON RIDERS

They go in immense herds, as you'd expect. A Bison encampment with  
only 300 people would be considered small. Even on raids they go in  
larger groups than the other tribes. They like to do things together,  
like have big ferocious parties, feasts, and weddings, and they train  
together to fight in huge masses. During the spring rutting season,  
the Bison Rider camps are immobile while they mate their beasts and  
wager on the outcomes of bullfights (between bulls -- not bulls vs.  
people). During the rest of the year, they're on the move, constantly  
striving to find areas with enough fodder for their mass of hungry  
animals. Hence, once each year for a couple months, the Bison Riders  
must find good grassy ground. 


Bison Riders are notoriously easy to steal animals from, and hence  
stolen bisons are quite common in other tribe's herds. This is  
probably because their herds are so large and mobile, so that  
stragglers are common. On the other hand, everyone hates being raided  
BY the Bison Riders, because they come charging down on your flock  
like a ton of bricks, scatter everything, and grab what they can.  
When they're gone, you have to spend days or weeks re-gathering your  
scattered herd, and you never find them all, not even counting the  
ones stolen by the Bison folk. Those bastards. 


IMPALA RIDERS

Typically Impala folk are found in clan ranging in size from a few  
dozen to a few hundred, each clan ruled by a khan. An Impala Folk  
clan keeps together during the winter to breed, make cheese, etc, but  
with dry weather the bachelors are kicked out of the sept, and so go  
raiding all summer long. With the onset of winter, they return to the  
sept. Their animals prefer dry areas, and get sick if they stay too  
long near a riverbed or marsh. 


The Impala folk, pygmies all, rarely intermarry with other tribes  
(who wants kids too big for their tribal animal?). They engage in  
Strength training quite a lot, so many of them can use Composite Bows  
(in game terms, they're usually at their Strength Maximum). They're  
wiry little guys. 


Impala Riders are detested by the other clans because all summer long  
those damn kids with their bows have nothing to do but harass other  
folks, steal cattle, and cause trouble. Also the Impala folks are  
masters of riding away from you at full speed, firing arrows as they  
flee, and this is quite frustrating to many of their foes.

SABLE RIDERS

Sable clans are several hundred people in size, with an appropriate  
number of herd animals. Each clan is very "nationalistic", with its  
own history and traditions. One of the results is that every clan has  
its own special type of system for war (which is why there is such a  
variety of "tribal weapons" for these guys). They are the most  
flexible of the tribes, and their animals can survive almost  
anywhere. They are the closest to an "average Praxian" of any tribe,  
and you could do worse than pick a Sable Rider for your own PC.

Right now, Sables are disliked by the other tribes because they're a  
bunch of arrogant jerks who have displaced worthier groups from the  
Paps and good grazing land of Prax. No doubt when the Lunars leave  
the other tribes will find other, more traditional reasons to hate  
the Sables. 


HIGH LLAMA (ALTICAMELUS) RIDERS

Clans are subdivided into Septs. Each sept is made up of one or more  
households, and is rarely larger than a few dozen members. Sometimes  
it consists of less than ten people. High Llamas don't breed fast,  
and their owners have very small herds, much smaller than those of  
other Praxians. Hence the High Llama folk do a lot more hunting and  
gathering than members of other tribes, who can largely survive off  
just the milk and meat from their beasts. Foundchild is very popular  
among this clan. They are the originators and best practitioners of  
the ubiquitous Praxian sport of hare-sticking, in which the object is  
to gallop through the desert until you startle one of the Praxian  
jackrabbits. Then you chase the rabbit, trying to stick it with a  
lance. If you catch it first, you win. The rabbit often gets away.

The High Llamas do best in areas that have trees, and prefer grazing  
on juicy foliage if possible, disliking rough grass, and often  
refusing to eat if the proportion of grass to other plants is too  
high. In the open plains, this can lead to their masters going out  
and rooting up appropriate plants, then bringing back armfuls of  
leaves for their mounts to eat. The other Praxians openly sneer at  
such pathetic behavior and the canard that High Llamas can't even  
feed themselves is commonly flung at their riders. 


The High Llama people, with their small septs, might appear  
vulnerable, but are well-defended, since they are almost impossible  
to surprise, with such fine lookout posts. If a High Llama rider  
decides to flee, too, he generally wins the race, as his speedy  
animal with its long legs lets him choose the time to fight. Their  
huge steeds give them quite an edge in battle if they do choose to  
fight. They are naturally hated because of their arrogance. 


BISON RIDERS

Technically, the Bison Riders are one of the Great Tribes, and  
supposedly were as large as any other tribe at the Dawn. Now, of  
course, they're minute. The Bison Riders have no clans (or, perhaps,  
they have but one clan coterminous with their tribe), but have little  
septs. They have tiny little "herds", occasionally consisting of just  
one rhino, the owner's steed. Alone among the Praxian tribes, they  
often keep foreign animals just to milk, rather than to fatten for  
slaughter. They probably eat more vegetable matter than any other  
tribe, but this doesn't  mean they don't like to hunt. They do, but  
their steeds aren't suitable for all hunting styles. 


The Rhino riders are a solitude-loving folk, who generally live in  
small family groups. Both the other Praxians and the Rhino folk  
themselves agree that this is what led to their near-demise, as  
other, better-organized, peoples bushwhacked the Rhino folk and  
overcame them one by one. The Rhino Riders still live in small family  
groups, but they are now organized into septs, and in any given area,  
all the family groups of a sept are generally no more than an hour's  
ride from the next family group, and if a family is raided, the  
avenging Rhino patrols are on the move soon. 


The Rhino riders are still the hardest to beat in a fight of any  
people in Prax, and that accounts for their continued survival,  
despite the limitations of their beasts. 


.......

Next time I write an essay it will either be on the Morocanth or  
Pamaltela. Unsure yet which. 


Sandy

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From: ghoyle@smashland.nelsonville.oh.us (Guy Hoyle)
Subject: QUESTIONS
Message-ID: 
Date: 14 Nov 93 16:42:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2317

This is Guy Hoyle. I7ve just recently returned to the RQ Daily's mailing 
list, so pardon me if I ask something tha's already been answered.

In King of Sartar, Stafford mentions a cult of Vinga, whose adherents are 
women adventurers who have red hair (dyed or naturally). Has anyone found 
out more details? Or speculated? I think she was a daughter of Orlanth.

Also, I used to know where to get back issues of the RQ Digest, but I 
mustnot have the address right. Is it grass-server@wilma.whaton.upenn.edu?
I'm trying to get a list of all the RQ Digest files, and I've been 
putting "DIR RQ*" on the subject line. So far, all I've received is the 
HELP file and several "No such address" messages. Any help (either at the 
address above or in the Digest) is gratefully received.

Glad to be back!
--Guy Hoyle (aka Mulborth)

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From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: Slaves
Message-ID: <9311151049.AA15450@Sun.COM>
Date: 12 Nov 93 17:03:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2318

>Joerg writes:

>Then why feed them to Chaos Horrors like the bat? I know of no incident 
>where Sartarite captives of war were enslaved and carried off to work the 
>fields of Lunar Heartland.

Maybe Orlanthi Sartarites make very bad slaves (I suspect many would rather
die). Better to take/buy your slaves from cultures where slavery is common or
accepted.

Thom

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From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: Shield versus armour
Message-ID: <9311151049.AB15450@Sun.COM>
Date: 12 Nov 93 17:16:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2319

Clay writes:

> It seems
>the shield actually offered more protection than the body armor (presumably
>because it was more mobile).  The spear become longer and they stopped using 
>it for throwing.  [I've never been able to convince my players that a shield
>offers more protection than body armor...a weakness of game systems, I guess,
>or perhaps a left-over memory of D&D...]

I think shields probably do offer more protection than current RQ mechanics
allow for (maybe they should probably offer partial protection to some
locations in melee combat even if a parry fails). However, big shields really
come good when used in formation (especially with little training). They may
also be lighter and certainly cheaper (depending on the available armour). For
one-on-one combat armour tends win out (depending on technology etc.).

Thom