From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 16 Nov 1993, part 1 Message-ID:Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) Subject: re: RQ Daily Message-ID: <9311151835.AA00580@idcube.idsoftware.com> Date: 15 Nov 93 06:35:13 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2326 Sandy Petersen re: Illumination The internal attitude within the Lunar Empire is ostensibly such that both Malia and Chalana Arroy are acceptable goddesses for protection against disease. Obviously, in rural areas this may not hold so well. Also Malia initiates, as a member of a "Dangerous" cult, must be licensed. This also applies to other dangerous cults such as Humakt and Issaries (the former because their members can have geases forcing them to distrust certain races or cults; the latter because they could have any rune spell through Spell Trading). The Malia licensing is more stringent than Humakt or Issaries, though. Nick Brooke sez: (re: a ct by me that Rightarm Island in a DP-type game should provide the ability to control the tides) > That's a Blue Moon speciality, and incidentally one that would be > *really* dangerous against flat, low-lying Esrolia. I'd give any > such power to the Lunars; the Rightarm special is the navy, which > is going to be better than those cruddy Corflu triremes. This is a cogent point by Nick, and one that forces me to reconsider. The reason I suggested tide-controlling here was because in the old MASTERS OF LUCK AND DEATH game there was a guy called the Master of Tides living on an island out in the bay, and if you allied him, you could control the tides. Maybe he should still be there as an exotic. How about this: the Lunar Blue Moon guys get the power to control the tides as an exotic magic power, and so does the Master of Tides. If the Pharaoh manages to ally the Master of Tides, then he can use his power to cancel out the Blue Moon effect when invoked. > Think of the Lunar navy as like the Romans in the Punic Wars. I think the Lunar navy is amazingly inferior to the Romans in the Punic wars. Not only do the Lunars not have any but river sailors in their nation, but I don't think they have any competent oceangoing shipbuilders. All their seagoing vessels are doubtless purchased or built under contract. And most of their sailors are probably mercenaries, too. This is good for RQ, of course. It means that a Lunar expedition of any sort (including mercantile) has to hire skilled outsiders (i.e., PCs) to work for them. re: Tax Collection in the Lunar Empire The Red Goddess, as deity of freedom, lets all local organizations operate in just the same fashion as they used to do. However, the central bureaucracy does have inspectors who periodically assess the various provinces and realms (tax districts) and assign a tax value. So long as the proceeds from those provinces are equal to the assigned value, the Red Emperor doesn't care how it's governed. If the receipts run short, the Tax Demons are sent to visit the ruler of the area. Excuses and reasons for lack of payment can then be presented to the Demons (so far, the Demons have not been particularly understanding). Of course, it's more complicated than this, because there are empire-wide organizations to check up on potential shortfalls. The real purpose of the Tax Demons seems to be to keep the Dart Competitions from harming the empire's finances. David Dunham sez: > I too have always been bothered about the Greek shift from what > looks like bronze to linen. This might have been done for non-combat reasons. The classic hoplite is one of the best-armored characters in world history, but most armies that succeeded him in history had less stuff. The Romans, for instance, wore metal armor on their torsoes, but their helmets were a lot smaller and they lacked leg armor. Of course, the Romans had to march all over the place, carrying their crap on their back. And they had to move pretty fast once they were on the battlefield, too. One reason for the Greek shift might have been the fact that the Greek citizen-soldiers had to pay for their own damn armor. Since you don't fight very often (with luck, never in your lifetime), why spend so much on the stuff? At least one source of mine states that a major reason for the abandoning of armor in the 15th and 16th centuries was the fact that the cost of armor was deducted from the troops' pay. If you were an armored pikeman instead of a musketeer, this probably preyed on your mind. And since the cost of armor was going up ... > I'd like to correct myself. Clearly, Babeester Gor provided the > Shield of Arran to Orlanth during the Great Darkness, which is > where Wind Lords get the Great Parry rune spell. Maybe Urox was > Orlanth's codpiece? "Codpiece" has a lot of appeal, and I'm sure it is well-documented in Gloranthan sources. It's clear that, whatever else he is, the Storm Bull is Orlanth's bull. One of the heroquests available to Orlanth Rex is to go to the top of Stormwalk mountain and capture a bull from the herd up there (guarded by a giant herdsman and his magic dog). This gives them a sky bull of their very own. If, instead, the Orlanth Rex manages to completely defeat the herdsman, he has Tamed the Bull, and from then on has power over berserks. This is one part of Orlanth's greater heroquest to prove his dominance over his brethren, in which not only the Bull, but Vadrus, Humakt, etc., must be conquered. Peter Michaels sez: > please do tell why Praxpack is probably-not-going-to-be-published. Maybe it WILL be published. It's just that I haven't heard any word on it for a long time. I.e., have not received back the manuscript so I can finish it up, stuff like that. I guess I just assumed AH had lost interest in it. Myself, I'd love to see it in print. Joerg Baumgartner asks: >You regard only the Hrestoli (or later) sects/heresies as Malkioni? I guess my tendency is to refer to all the cultures stemming from the Brithini and accepting worship of the Invisible God along with the basic strata of society as Malkioni. Technically the Brithini are Malkioni, too, but they're so different from the others, I generally exclude them from the category. Like when we say "animal", sometimes we really just mean "mammal". The Vadeli, of course, aren't Malkioni at all. The Waertagi have strong connections to the Malkioni, but once more aren't really Malkioni. Plus they're not really humans. > The Biturian Varosh story about Yelmalion justice (CoP, reprinted > in Sun County) seemed to equalize all Lightbringers. Why else > should an Issaries trader pose as a Storm enemy in a minor Yelmalio > heroquest? In the story it's clear that the Yelmalio are real hard up for a Storm enemy, and they got to do their quest. At least Issaries is an associate of Orlanth. I doubt they'd have used a Chalana Arroy, if she'd been around, though. One of the reasons for the general dislike of Yelmalions in Sartar and the Wastes is their strict interpretation of by-the-letter rules and mores. For instance, they're known as big liars BECAUSE they tell the strict truth. If you ask a Yelmalion, "Can you tell me where the secret hideout is?" He may well answer, "No." though he knows, because he rationalizes that he can't tell or he'd get in trouble. An Orlanthi would be less likely to hide the truth, and forthrightly say, "I'll never tell you, you murdering bastards." The going saying about the Yelmalions is, "Their words are as sweet and as firm as honey." Basically, their enemies feel that to the Yelmalions, truth is so precious that it needs to be doled out. As in many stereotypes, there's something behind this. > But Gloranthan stuff about Ygg's islands ... would be welcome, too The entire intent behind Ygg's Islands is to provide a Gloranthan home for the Vikings Pack. Basically, the Ygg's Islanders are just like Vikings, except their gods have different names and histories. Most of the non-Gloranthan stuff published by Chaosium was given a home somewhere in Glorantha, for the convenience of the house campaigns. This is why Refuge = Sanctuary, for instance. > where in Peloria do we find the descendants of the other interim > rulers the arious Theyalan incursions on Dara Happa (Argentium > Thri'ile, Arkat's Gbaji-hunt, the EWF expansion) drew from Praxian > nobility and imposed on the Pelorian natives? Are (or were) there > Rhino-, Impala-, Bison- and Alticamelus- chieftains become > nobility? I know for a fact that there is at least one Lunar dynasty of nobles who traditionally train bisons to ride. However, they're good Lunars, and only the Irrippi Ontor sages in town know why that dynasty has that custom. I'm sure there are other traces of such activity. Peloria acts a little like China to its conquerors -- most are eventually assimilated. Only (some of) the horse barbarians and the Sable Riders of Kostaddi have avoided this fate. The Sable Riders survived because they had the Hungry Plateau nearby to keep their traditions alive. The horse barbarians used the same tricks as the Manchus (keeping a deep gulf alive between conquered and conqueror), which is why they kept getting ousted. > (Sandy said) the Wolfrunners are generally unfriendly to the other > Sartarite tribes, they would NOT ally with the Lunars against a > Prince of Sartar. > (Joerg said) So Sandy can be Gregged, too: KoS, p.26: "... the > werewolf folk turned against Argrath Argh! Cut to the quick. Et tu, Joergus? I'm amused that "Gregged" seems to be becoming a verb. > Cragspider's 6-6-6-X might well be uzdo, not uzko. I have always assumed that they were uzdo, perhaps with some uzko officers. After all, Cragspider invented the breed. She's supposed to have the most of anybody. >(Sandy said) The great Lunar innovation in combat was that they were > the first people ever to organize magicians into military units. > (Joerg asks) How come the Exile magicians then? Because at the time DP was designed, the facts behind this Lunar development were not yet clear. IMO, the Exile magicians should be dumped, their factors melded into the other Exile units. Or, alternatively, say that since they've been forced to live right next to Tarsh, and also picked up some tricks from Sartar, that they've emulated this style of battle. > (Joerg asks -- slaver visible even clear across the ocean) So it > (i.e., Masters of Luck and Death) existed? What was its > distribution? (i.e., how do I get my grubby hands on it?) Sorry, Joerg. Its distribution was one (1) hand-made copy for which the rules are now missing. I just remember some of the units. The Mother of Monsters (who has sinced been moved to Pamaltela) was a unit in the game, too, and she'd spawn a monster unit every turn, the exact type varying with what height the tides were at that night. > I'm not so certain whether the Barbarian Horde is Praxian or > Orlanthi from Barbarian Town. Any offers? The Barbarian Horde is a bit like the storm-worshiping Pentans, though it's parallel evolution, not derivatory. Their members are mostly ex-Praxians or descendants of same, with a few Orlanthi outlaws or outcasts. Within the tribe you'll see representatives of every Praxian racial type. The deities worshiped are Orlanth, Storm Bull, and Eiritha. (Ernalda doesn't get much truck with these guys.) They are called the "Bastard Tribe" by other Praxians, not because of their personalities but because they mix animals; riding horses while herding cattle. Their overall behavior is more Praxian than Orlanthi, and they participate in raiding, so you'll find bison, impalas, etc., in a Pol-Joni herd. Barbarian Town is primarily organized for their benefit, and is a little like the trading towns that sprang up in Cossack territory; i.e., a wild brawling place made up mainly of tents and ramshackle huts. Most of the population are transients. The Pol Joni don't go much into the Wastes, and generally stick to the good ground on the border between Prax and Dragon Pass, though raiding parties are found everywhere in Prax. From Sartar's point of view, the Pol Joni act as a good buffer against the other nomads. From the Pol Joni point of view, the Sartarites are a useful source of trade goods, and it's good to keep nearby. MORE PRAXIAN STUFF General: Praxian tribes follow their animals' lives and life cycles. When in doubt, pick up a good book on animal behavior and see what it says, then try to apply it to the tribe in question. The tribes are subdivided into clans (each clan has its own khan) and households. The individual counters in Nomad Gods are generally clan-sized. Some tribes insert the further subdivision of septs between clans and households. The wife owns the herd animals and most of the goods of the household. The husband owns only his riding animal(s), weapons, and spoils of war. A typical well-off nomad, with an average household consisting of a wife and 5 "others" has around 50 cows. About half the cows are allowed to give birth to a calf in a year. The other half of the cows are used solely for providing milk (a condition in which they won't get pregnant). Male calves are generally eaten, but female calves are usually allowed to grow to adulthood to expand the herd. Most nomads ride male animals, since they don't get pregnant, and they're often larger than females. Foreign animals are prized, because you can eat them instead of your own animals, thus saving one or more of your own calves. Old cows that have stopped given milk are also eaten, as are injured or elderly riding animals. Most nomads hardly ever eat one of their own tribal animals in its prime -- only as a calf or as an old or sick beast or rarely for a special feast. Of course, this makes foreign animals even more interesting. During normal times, an Eiritha woman leads the clan. During wartime or other crises, the Waha Khan is in charge. He gets to decide whether it is a time of crisis or not. BISON RIDERS They go in immense herds, as you'd expect. A Bison encampment with only 300 people would be considered small. Even on raids they go in larger groups than the other tribes. They like to do things together, like have big ferocious parties, feasts, and weddings, and they train together to fight in huge masses. During the spring rutting season, the Bison Rider camps are immobile while they mate their beasts and wager on the outcomes of bullfights (between bulls -- not bulls vs. people). During the rest of the year, they're on the move, constantly striving to find areas with enough fodder for their mass of hungry animals. Hence, once each year for a couple months, the Bison Riders must find good grassy ground. Bison Riders are notoriously easy to steal animals from, and hence stolen bisons are quite common in other tribe's herds. This is probably because their herds are so large and mobile, so that stragglers are common. On the other hand, everyone hates being raided BY the Bison Riders, because they come charging down on your flock like a ton of bricks, scatter everything, and grab what they can. When they're gone, you have to spend days or weeks re-gathering your scattered herd, and you never find them all, not even counting the ones stolen by the Bison folk. Those bastards. IMPALA RIDERS Typically Impala folk are found in clan ranging in size from a few dozen to a few hundred, each clan ruled by a khan. An Impala Folk clan keeps together during the winter to breed, make cheese, etc, but with dry weather the bachelors are kicked out of the sept, and so go raiding all summer long. With the onset of winter, they return to the sept. Their animals prefer dry areas, and get sick if they stay too long near a riverbed or marsh. The Impala folk, pygmies all, rarely intermarry with other tribes (who wants kids too big for their tribal animal?). They engage in Strength training quite a lot, so many of them can use Composite Bows (in game terms, they're usually at their Strength Maximum). They're wiry little guys. Impala Riders are detested by the other clans because all summer long those damn kids with their bows have nothing to do but harass other folks, steal cattle, and cause trouble. Also the Impala folks are masters of riding away from you at full speed, firing arrows as they flee, and this is quite frustrating to many of their foes. SABLE RIDERS Sable clans are several hundred people in size, with an appropriate number of herd animals. Each clan is very "nationalistic", with its own history and traditions. One of the results is that every clan has its own special type of system for war (which is why there is such a variety of "tribal weapons" for these guys). They are the most flexible of the tribes, and their animals can survive almost anywhere. They are the closest to an "average Praxian" of any tribe, and you could do worse than pick a Sable Rider for your own PC. Right now, Sables are disliked by the other tribes because they're a bunch of arrogant jerks who have displaced worthier groups from the Paps and good grazing land of Prax. No doubt when the Lunars leave the other tribes will find other, more traditional reasons to hate the Sables. HIGH LLAMA (ALTICAMELUS) RIDERS Clans are subdivided into Septs. Each sept is made up of one or more households, and is rarely larger than a few dozen members. Sometimes it consists of less than ten people. High Llamas don't breed fast, and their owners have very small herds, much smaller than those of other Praxians. Hence the High Llama folk do a lot more hunting and gathering than members of other tribes, who can largely survive off just the milk and meat from their beasts. Foundchild is very popular among this clan. They are the originators and best practitioners of the ubiquitous Praxian sport of hare-sticking, in which the object is to gallop through the desert until you startle one of the Praxian jackrabbits. Then you chase the rabbit, trying to stick it with a lance. If you catch it first, you win. The rabbit often gets away. The High Llamas do best in areas that have trees, and prefer grazing on juicy foliage if possible, disliking rough grass, and often refusing to eat if the proportion of grass to other plants is too high. In the open plains, this can lead to their masters going out and rooting up appropriate plants, then bringing back armfuls of leaves for their mounts to eat. The other Praxians openly sneer at such pathetic behavior and the canard that High Llamas can't even feed themselves is commonly flung at their riders. The High Llama people, with their small septs, might appear vulnerable, but are well-defended, since they are almost impossible to surprise, with such fine lookout posts. If a High Llama rider decides to flee, too, he generally wins the race, as his speedy animal with its long legs lets him choose the time to fight. Their huge steeds give them quite an edge in battle if they do choose to fight. They are naturally hated because of their arrogance. BISON RIDERS Technically, the Bison Riders are one of the Great Tribes, and supposedly were as large as any other tribe at the Dawn. Now, of course, they're minute. The Bison Riders have no clans (or, perhaps, they have but one clan coterminous with their tribe), but have little septs. They have tiny little "herds", occasionally consisting of just one rhino, the owner's steed. Alone among the Praxian tribes, they often keep foreign animals just to milk, rather than to fatten for slaughter. They probably eat more vegetable matter than any other tribe, but this doesn't mean they don't like to hunt. They do, but their steeds aren't suitable for all hunting styles. The Rhino riders are a solitude-loving folk, who generally live in small family groups. Both the other Praxians and the Rhino folk themselves agree that this is what led to their near-demise, as other, better-organized, peoples bushwhacked the Rhino folk and overcame them one by one. The Rhino Riders still live in small family groups, but they are now organized into septs, and in any given area, all the family groups of a sept are generally no more than an hour's ride from the next family group, and if a family is raided, the avenging Rhino patrols are on the move soon. The Rhino riders are still the hardest to beat in a fight of any people in Prax, and that accounts for their continued survival, despite the limitations of their beasts. ....... Next time I write an essay it will either be on the Morocanth or Pamaltela. Unsure yet which. Sandy --------------------- From: ghoyle@smashland.nelsonville.oh.us (Guy Hoyle) Subject: QUESTIONS Message-ID: Date: 14 Nov 93 16:42:44 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2317 This is Guy Hoyle. I7ve just recently returned to the RQ Daily's mailing list, so pardon me if I ask something tha's already been answered. In King of Sartar, Stafford mentions a cult of Vinga, whose adherents are women adventurers who have red hair (dyed or naturally). Has anyone found out more details? Or speculated? I think she was a daughter of Orlanth. Also, I used to know where to get back issues of the RQ Digest, but I mustnot have the address right. Is it grass-server@wilma.whaton.upenn.edu? I'm trying to get a list of all the RQ Digest files, and I've been putting "DIR RQ*" on the subject line. So far, all I've received is the HELP file and several "No such address" messages. Any help (either at the address above or in the Digest) is gratefully received. Glad to be back! --Guy Hoyle (aka Mulborth) --------------------- From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley) Subject: Slaves Message-ID: <9311151049.AA15450@Sun.COM> Date: 12 Nov 93 17:03:56 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2318 >Joerg writes: >Then why feed them to Chaos Horrors like the bat? I know of no incident >where Sartarite captives of war were enslaved and carried off to work the >fields of Lunar Heartland. Maybe Orlanthi Sartarites make very bad slaves (I suspect many would rather die). Better to take/buy your slaves from cultures where slavery is common or accepted. Thom --------------------- From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley) Subject: Shield versus armour Message-ID: <9311151049.AB15450@Sun.COM> Date: 12 Nov 93 17:16:42 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2319 Clay writes: > It seems >the shield actually offered more protection than the body armor (presumably >because it was more mobile). The spear become longer and they stopped using >it for throwing. [I've never been able to convince my players that a shield >offers more protection than body armor...a weakness of game systems, I guess, >or perhaps a left-over memory of D&D...] I think shields probably do offer more protection than current RQ mechanics allow for (maybe they should probably offer partial protection to some locations in melee combat even if a parry fails). However, big shields really come good when used in formation (especially with little training). They may also be lighter and certainly cheaper (depending on the available armour). For one-on-one combat armour tends win out (depending on technology etc.). Thom