From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 17 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID:
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: appel@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon D. Appel)
Subject: Index: White Wolf
Message-ID: <9311160942.AA29168@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Date: 15 Nov 93 17:43:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2337
This is a fragment from the White Wolf Index that I recently prepared.
If you'd like to get the whole index, either ftp to soda.berkeley.edu
(where it's available in the /pub/rpg-index directory), or send mail
to almanac@erzo.berkeley.edu with the command 'send rpg-index white-wolf'.
Shannon
FROM
THE WHITE WOLF INDEX
VERSION 1.00
[issues 2-37]
RUNEQUEST [Chaosium, Avalon Hill]
Adventures:
The King Beneath the Hill, by Graeme Davis (1) #26 pg 66-78
Cults:
Bagog, by Greg Stafford and Sandy Petersen (2) #22 pg 22-25
Donandar, by Greg Stafford and Sandy Petersen #18 pg 36-38
Lodril, by Greg Stafford and Sandy Petersen #20 pg 18-24
Mostal, by Greg Stafford and Sandy Petersen (3) #15 pg 37-42
Yelm, by Greg Stafford and Sandy Petersen #16 pg 22-28
(1) A generic adventure with RuneQuest conversions supplied
(2) A RuneQuest III version of the Cult of Bagog which originally appeared
in CULTS OF TERROR (Chaosium 4014)
(3) Nearly Identical to the Cult of Mostal which appears in ELDER SECRETS
(Avalon Hill 8588)
---------------------
From: sullivam@mlc.lib.mi.us (Mark Sullivan -- Michigan Library Consortium)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily
Message-ID:
Date: 15 Nov 93 22:49:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2338
Clay Luther on Interjecting Some Real World Tidbits
>Athens mustered about 10,000 men against the Persian 250,000. The
>Athenians used phalanx tactics, the Persians just kinda ran across the
>battlefield, I guess. The Athenians lost 200 men. The Persians lost
>several thousand and retreated.
The ancient sources for troop strengths are often wildly inaccurate
(especially when it comes to the opponent's numbers). For example if the
Persians really had 250,000 men at Marathon if we assume a formation with
a depth of 25 men and a frontage of only 0.5 meters per man that gives a
frontage of 10,000 x 0.5 meters or 5 kilometers. If the Athenians were in
Phalanx formation there frontage is probably not even 1 meter per man but
assume 1 meter per man. To cover the same frontage they would have a line
only 2 men in width. Not very likely. Does anyone know how wide the
plain at Marathon was/is? Note that we can play the same game with how
long will the Persian marching column be.
Ancient sources often contain similar wide disparities between victor and
vanquished. Modern versions often uncritically rely on the original
sources. Perhaps Nick Brooke, who I see is an historian and *not* an
accountant, could comment on this as well.
--------------------
Sandy Petersen
>For my next magical trick, should I give some more Pamaltela data,
>or some of my information on the Wastes?
Well, I was going to say that while I have enjoyed the Pamaltela data (and
would like to see more) more information on Prax would have more utility
for my campaign needs, however [since my next Daily just arrived] I see
that you are already giving out some Praxian information. Have you begun
excavation on your stuff in storage? ;-)
---------------------
David Dunham on tribes:
> Sartar's tribes include the following:
> Amad [Located at Amadhall in North Sartar, I presume.]
> Aranwyth
I am unfamiliar with these next four; can you provide additional
information?
> Bachad
> Balkoth
> Balmyr
> Cinsina
> Colymar
> Culbrea
> Dinacoli [Don't know these either.]
> Ducks
> Dundealos [or these]
> Enstalos [ditto]
> Kheldon
> Kultain [unfamiliar with these]
> Lismelder [I recognize these now, thanks to you and Nick.]
> Locaem [but not these]
> (Maboder is now extinct) [well mostly]
> Malani [I recognize these guys.]
> Princeros [But not these]
> Sambarri [nor these]
> Telmori [But I remember these. My what big teeth you have!]
> Torkani [Are these guys in both Torkan's Vale and at Torkan's Last fort?]
> Tovtaros [Don't recognize them.]
> Tres [or them]
> Vantaros [These are in Aldachur aren't they?]
> I left out one tribe: the Pol-Joni are considered Sartarite.
I think that the Pol-Joni are Praxian independents, rather than a Sartar
tribe. I also didn't notice any Tworidge Tribe (from the Dragon Pass game
counter and the Fort of the same name on that game map and the map from
RQII's Trollpak map of Dagori Inkarth). Is one of the above another name
for them?
Any information that you can provide regarding location, tribal strength,
unusual Cult affiliation, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Also, if
possible, please source your references, i.e. a particular publication,
house campaign or whatever.
Mark
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 16 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9311160943.AA05667@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 16 Nov 93 11:43:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2339
You should all have received three copies of part 1
for today. One copy with
Message-Id: <{RQD@Glorantha>
and two with
Message-Id:
in the headers.
You should only have received a single copy of parts two and three:
Message-Id:
Message-Id:
Henk Langeveld
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 10:20:54 +0100
> From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
> To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
> Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
> Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 16 Nov 1993, part 1
> Message-Id:
> Precedence: junk
---------------------
From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance)
Subject: Runes
Message-ID: <01H5DB8W0YSI007DSK@UG.EDS.COM>
Date: 15 Nov 93 20:56:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2340
>>Elements (obvious)
>
>This becomes less obvious with RQ3, where a Light rune seems to
>have crept in
This was in RQ2 (Cults of Terror) - Light & Heat were
"sub-elements" of Fire/Sky - as can be seen the runes are similar
in form; Cold, Ice (and the later Shadow) sub-elements of Dark;
similarly Dust/Malign Earth as a sub-element of Earth.
>Sea - Also mentioned in Troll gods. Is this just the Water Rune
>by a different name?
probably - one of the kennings of the primal water deity was "Sir
Sea"
>Is there a definitive list of Runes & meanings & symbols?
>Should there be?
One came around on the list near the beginning of the year
>I myself am not too happy about seeing new runes popping up all
>over the place.
>It all smacks of the way AD&D went with the
>quasi-pseudo-demi-meta-elemental
>plane of warm-shadowy-gunk-stuff...
One has to exercise taste & restraint, certainly. I'm surprised
not to see Thunder and Lightning sub-runes of Storm (the latter a
hybrid w/Fire/Sky as per Lightning Boy's being a fire spirit
captured by storm)
>Oh, and I forgot the Law rune, which wasn't in the original RQ2
>listing unless I'm much mistaken.
True
>Shouldn't Law and Chaos be powers rather than forms?
This would sit uncomfortably w/ Statis/Mobility and
Harmonmy/Disorder, which occupy nearby semantic territories
---------------------
From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Shields
Message-ID:
Date: 16 Nov 93 14:09:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2341
Greg Fried here.
Graeme, Colin:
I allow a players to make a 'general' shield parry roll instead of trying to
parry a single attack. If this roll succeeds, the shield then covers the
appropriate areas during that round, adding its AP to those areas. This
seems to me to be what happens in massed combat, by the way, since we've been
discussing hoplites and the like. Criticals will still by-pass the shield.
I could see an argument for reducing the AP of such passively employed
shields by a fraction (say, 3/4 value).
---------------------
From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Rune Sorcery (continued)
Message-ID: <9311161528.AA24381@Sun.COM>
Date: 16 Nov 93 11:35:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2342
Continuing to Jabber on about Rune Sorcery (Ref: Colin Wilson)
Simple answers:
1) Hunger is the new name for the Undead Rune (Krasht is not undead, but is
VERY Hungry and undead hunger for life).
2) The Grey Sages say that the winds carry sounds to your ears. The obvious
proof of this is the Wind Words spells, whereby an orlanthi may be specially
aided by the winds who work overtime in carrying any sound to him/her.
Rune sorcery:
How to relate statistics to runes. We have already agreed on quite a
few stat/rune tie ups, with one exception they were all forms. Therefore I
tried to link statistics to form runes (and used the main eight used for weeks
etc.) Here is a slightly redone list that may bring us closer.
STR: Stasis -- Immobility (& associated with mostali/stone = STR)
CON: Fertility -- Healing, Reproduction, (& ties in with drain spell)
SIZ: Disorder -- Giants, Zorak Zorani great trolls (Sorry!)
INT: Truth -- Knowledge (Lhankor Mhy)
POW: Spirit or Harmony -- Spirit is nice, but harmony is a form.
DEX: Mobilty -- Obvious
APP: Illusion -- Glamour spells et al. (Trolls would agree too)
Damage: Death -- Babeester Gor, Humakt and Zorak Zoran would agree.
Your Dice Rolls: Luck -- Well what else
The GM: Fate -- She who guides destiny!
The last two forms have always been separated from the other eight.
Ref: 2307 (Nick)
Storm Bull might be Orlanth's Hard Hat.
After all the Bullies seem to like head butting with horned helmets...
-----
Lewis
-----
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9311161620.AA01050@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 16 Nov 93 04:20:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2343
Sandy back yet again.
Thom Baguley opines:
> However, big shields really (be)come good when used in formation.
I would say that this statement is spot-on. When I did some research
on the subject of combat in the pre-gunpowder era, I soon discovered
that the tactics and weapons that were best for one-on-one combat had
little in common with the tactics and weapons useful in a mass
battle. A Roman soldier with gladius and shield would have been made
short work of by a Gaul if they'd fought one-on-one. But when 1000
Romans fought 1000 Gauls, the outcome was rarely in doubt. The same
applies to weird weapons like pikes (nearly useless unless you've got
several hundred pals all like-armed). Our conclusion was that the
armament of ancient armies, while interesting and often enlightening,
said little about how a PC should outfit himself.
Pam Carlson asks:
> We've been wondering about how effective defensive magic is vs
> Sunspear. The line in RQ 3 reads "magic is ineffective, including
> spells that act as armor." Does this mean ALL magic, not just
> Protection and Shield? Does it ignore Reflection/Cast Back,
> Absorption, Countermagic, Damage Resistance, and Spell Resistance?
> Also, does "thinnest armor counts" mean the most lightly armored
> location? Inquiring solar minds want to know.
The intent when Sunspear was written up was that ALL magic is
ineffective vs. Sunspear. It's a very special spell, and ignores all
them things you mentioned. Perhaps magic designed specially for use
vs. fire/sky spells might have an effect (like Suppress Aether), if
the GM decides.
"Thinnest armor counts" means the most lightly armored hit location.
The theory is that Sunspear and Thunderbolt are exact opposites --
Sunspear ignores magic, Thunderbolt ignores armor. Take your pick.
johnjmedway states: (re: Fazzur Wideread's fall)
> I thought that his fall was connected with:
> 1) The siege of Whitewall dragging on too long, and
> 2) The Cradle "Incident"
Fazzur Wideread was overthrown through the machinations of jealous
subordinates. It was a prime example of Lunar infighting harming the
Empire as a whole. The siege of Whitewall certainly did Fazzur no
good, but it was probably more important as a lost opportunity -- if
Fazzur had managed to conquer it, he'd have been so strong
politically that Tatius could never have displaced him. The Cradle
Incident harmed him indirectly -- it was the downfall of Sor-Eel,
Fazzur's protege and a noted expert on Prax. Without Sor-Eel, Fazzur
had lost one of his prime supporters.
Colin Watson mentions:
> the Law rune ... wasn't in the original RQ2 listing unless I'm much
> mistaken. Shouldn't Law and Chaos be powers rather than forms?
The Law Rune wasn't in RQ2. It is not a common Theyalan Rune. Law and
Chaos are not Powers because in Gloranthan they are not opposites.
Glorantha is neither Moorcockian nor D&Dish in its essential nature.
Note for instance that the most effective warriors vs. Chaos are
Storm Bull, Zorak Zoran, and boggles. For an interesting mind game,
try classifying various stereotypical Gloranthan cultists according
to their D&D alignment.
re: The Block
For what it's worth, there's cloud cover around the Block whenever
the Storm Bulls gather there. Perhaps this makes it harder to see?
Mark Sullivan asks:
> Can anyone tell me if the Pol Joni were involved in the fighting in
> Sartar during the Lunar invasion of 1602?
I don't think so, but I'm making this statement without a shred of
evidence to back it up. It seems to me that I'd have remembered if
the Pol Joni were in the fight. Unless they fought early on, and then
fled back to the plains when the Lunars settled in for the siege of
Boldhome itself. After all the Pol Joni wouldn't be much use in a
city fight.
Graeme A Lindsell asks:
> Has there ever been mention of what a Tax Demon actually does to
> its victims?
A person afflicted by Tax Demons (they're generally referred to in
the plural, because you don't get just one) is carried off and never
seen again. The assumption is that he is tortured forever in a Lunar
Hell, much like Sheng Seleris, but of course no one really knows for
sure.
> Any ideas why the Genertelan population is so small? With the
> various fertility spells and magical healing I would expect the
> population to be bigger than medieval Europe, rather than less.
Genertelan soil was battered heavily during the Gods War. Pockets of
chaos and two continent-wide disasters (God Learners destruction &
Gbaji Wars) have all done their part. There is also the other side
effects of magic ecology (like the way the Lunars are gradually
ruining their crops) and occasional events like the Nights of Horror
and the Sunburn. In a very real sense, magic has ruined Glorantha. Of
course, magic is also all that keeps them alive now.
My favorite definition of Gloranthan Chaos is: You want the gold. The
troll wants the gold. You are evil. The troll is evil, too. Here
comes a broo. He wants to DESTROY all the gold! So you and the troll
join forces.
Guy (Mulborth) Hoyle wonders:
>SABLE RIDERS
> I don't quite understand why the Sable Riders joined the Lunars
> at Moonbroth. Was it because the Lunar Sables had already embraced
> the Lunar Way long ago? Were they Illuminated? Arne't there some
> Storm Bulls among the Sable Tribes who objected (Any chaos is all
> Chaos!)?
There has always been a subtle connection between the Sables and the
Moon, stemming from the Lunar Sable tribes, the resemblance of a
Sable's horns to the crescent moon, etc. Now, the fact of the matter
is that the Sables also had plenty of connections to the other Beast
Riders, and they could have chosen to go either way. They signed up
with the Lunars because they perceived that they would benefit more
if the Lunars won (with Sable help) than if the Nomads won (with
Sable help). They had a lot more to win than they had to lose, and
made the right choice.
The Sable Riders aren't particularly Illuminated or Lunarized to any
great extent. The few Sable Storm Bulls made pro forma objections, of
course. What you have to understand is that the Praxian nomads are
nothing if not practical. Though they hate and fear chaos, their
tribal leaders have been known to call upon Thed for aid in an
inter-tribal conflict, to hire broos as mercenaries, and to initiate
large numbers of tribal members into the cult of Malia. It's just
part of the game of survival. If they win by doing these nasty
things, then the end justifies the means. If they lose, their enemies
point out that they lost because they called upon evil powers. It's
very much a win/lose situation.
.......
I've gotten mail running almost equally pro-Pamaltela and pro-Wastes,
so I guess I'll keep writing about both subjects. My procedure with
regards to Pamaltela will continue to be essays on various aspects of
life there. However, many people want to know about the Wastes
because they expect to go there soon (or have already been there) --
they want practical information.
> Though I enjoy the Pamaltela information to no end, I'd rather see
> the Praxpack info. This area has the most development, but there
>are too many questions about it.
Because immediately useful info seems to be what is wished for from
the Wastes, I have decided that the best thing I can do is to answer
questions about the Wastes that players have. Some of these questions
will no doubt impell me into essays about why things are that way.
Hope this is satisfactory.
PAMALTELAN TIDBIT FOR THE DAY
The Prosopaedia in GoG gives a whole bunch of deities all categorized
in the "Pamalt" pantheon. Many of them are in fact not worshiped by
the Doraddi at all. Here is a summary of whom worships these
entities. Deities listed in all-caps are common among the Doraddi.The
other gods might be accessed via the Horned Man, but that's all.
ALESHMARA: household goddess, possessed of some handy spells.
Annilla: goddess of the blues in Zamokil
Aranea: god of spider hsunchen (in jungle) and by some insect-people
Artmal: god of the blues in Zamokil
BABEESTER GOR: she's not called by that name here, though. I can't
recall the actual name they use for her. In dangerground her people
guard the oases. It is considered a great tragedy and an honor if
your daughter must join Babeester Gor, for she will always be useful,
but never be happy.
BOLONGO: their version of the Trickster
CRONISPER THE WISE: old man's god.
CURU: queen of Tarien.
Dehore: accessed via Horned Man
FARANAR: common women's goddess
HORNED MAN: what can I say?
Hykim & Mikyh: there are Hsunchen around the edges of the plains.
JMIJIE: pretty much explained a few RQ Dailies ago by me.
KERAUN: worshiped by oasis folk in dry areas. The Pamaltelans see the
air gods as benign, because storms are good. Accessed by Horned Man
in the tribes, because she doesn't really provide much power.
Lamsabi: not really in the plains at all, only on the coasts.
LODRIL: an important father-god, the Creator. He is rarely-worshiped
but highly respected.
THE LOWFIRES: accessed mainly via Horned Man, but a few real
worshipers exist. Gustbran worshipers work metal in oases, Mahome is
an acceptable alternative to Faranar, and Oakfed is a respected and
beneficial god along the edge of the encroaching jungle.
MWARA: queen of Zamokil. Not worshiped by the blues.
MARAN GOR: known by a different name.
NOMIAMA: queen of Jolar
NORUMA: literally, a god for shamans. He teaches spells that enhance
a shaman's effectiveness.
NYANKA: a mother's goddess providing fertility and growth.
Ompalam: a Bad God in the plains.
PAMALT
RASOUT: the hunter god.
SEDAIA: queen of Kothar. Very important to the Kresh
Sikkanos: a Bad God
TY KORA TEK: known by a different name. Most common in oases.
VANGONO: the major war god of the Doraddi.
YANMORLA: old women's god
In general, the Pamaltelan deities provide few spells, but have hosts
of associates, so that if you worship one god, you get spells from a
dozen or more cults.
---------------------
From: CHARTLEY%ESOC.BITNET@vm.gmd.de (C. Hartley Data Processing Division)
Subject: The Crimson Bat
Message-ID: <9311161653.AA06276@Sun.COM>
Date: 16 Nov 93 16:53:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2344
Hi, this is my first post to the digest so please forgive me if I'm
repeating old stuff or whatever.
In my campaign the PCs have become obsessed with slaying the Crimson
Bat. We are playing (mainly) RQ2 rules and have the Bat details from
Cults Of Terror.
As you all probably know, the Bats' stats are very impressive to be
challenged by a small adventuring party. The group does contain several
Rune Levels but even so...
The proposed method is by poison attack. They figure that by attacking
with poison they can overcome the Bats' ability to Sense Ambush. The idea
being it will know there's something coming but not exactly what.
Of course, they need an extremely powerful poison and I blocked any attempts
to purchase a ready-made potion. However, not to be deterred, they've taken
to questing for any poison ingredients and enhancers available. One
character joined the alchemists guild and devoted himself to poison
making, which the others funded.
I'ld be interested to hear of any Bat/Poison episodes or information
and also general opinions or comments on the above.
Cheers,
Chris.
End of Message