From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 22 Nov 1993, part 1 Message-ID:Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance) Subject: misc Message-ID: <01H5IZA7YBOI0077EP@UG.EDS.COM> Date: 19 Nov 93 22:18:55 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2383 Height of Wintertop >>It's not that tall, only 4000 ft above the sea [King of Sartar >p.184]. > >Correct, but... >The incredible peak towers 12 kilometers into the air and is >visible from hundreds of kilometers around. [Glorantha, >Genertela Book, p. 61] I'd got the impression that the 4000' figure was the *base* of Wintertop, i.e. the height of the col of (the real) Dragon Pass. Or maybe I was just trying to rationalise the two figures together. Certainly Orlanth's Mother deserves to be more impressive than the little hills dotting the British Isles. Runic ramblings... >>> A friend of mine had some insight into this. He drew an >analogy between >>> the Chaos rune of Glorantha and the Radiation rune of the >real world... > >Hmm, superimpose Chaos and Truth, and it's visually fairly >close. Dark & Truth even closer... >>I don't think most Theyalans would recognise a Law rune if they >saw one. > >Glad that you raise the subject. Of late I have been wondering: >What *is* the difference between Law and Stasis? Law seems to be the best you can do to make the Stasis rune with the linework from the Harmony rune. But then I'd also say the Issaries rune is really a sub-rune of Harmony. --------------------- From: awr0@aber.ac.uk (Adam Reynolds, 3rd Year and worried....) Subject: Request Message-ID: <9311201729.AA29997@fronta.aber.ac.uk> Date: 20 Nov 93 17:29:55 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2384 Did somebody say they were handling the American Runequest Adventures fanzine delivery into the UK? Could this particular person please mail me an address to write to and the cost! Thank you Adam Ps: Allow me to be the first "May I wish all of you a MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR !" naaaaaaaa, knew I'd make you scream! --------------------- From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes) Subject: shield design Message-ID: <9311202031.AA05704@Sun.COM> Date: 20 Nov 93 20:11:20 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2385 John Medway asked for shield design ideas. Do you know what a triskelos is? It was commonly used on Greek shields, you can see it in vase paintings (the archeology museum in town here has an original). It is basically a mobility rune, with the spiral arms taking the form of legs, ending in sandaled feet and the thighs meeting at the center. Boggles: a Boggle is a disorder spirit. Beyond that all I know is (others') apparently unofficial speculations. There apparently is a strong resemblance to Toon characters. Prax questions: I would like to know more about Tada (beyond the info published in Griffin Mtn). Also, how big is his tumulus (to re- iterate David Dunham's question)? Artifacts of Tada's are carried around by Praxian shamans and priests; what's the relationship? About Jaldon Toothmaker: He was born in a bison rider's tent, accord- ing to the Pavis book. What's he doing riding a horse (albeit skeletal) and leading Pol-Joni in Dragon Pass? I'd like to know more about the Rubble, while you're taking questions. A lot of stuff there has just enough description to be baffling, not enough to be useful. While reading the Aeneid I came across a reference to a Horn Gate, which Aeneas used to get out of the Underworld. Any resemblance to the Gloranthan Horn Gate? --Newton --------------------- From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au Subject: Prax Questions Message-ID: <01H5KNKEQSBC96VO8X@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> Date: 21 Nov 93 21:08:15 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2386 David: >1. How hated _are_ horses? (Would a band of Praxians attack someone just >because he rode a horse?) Yes! (Unless there's more of you than them, you're under the walls of Pavis, or whatever) 2. If Praxians see someone riding their herd animal, do they automatically assume it was stolen? The Bison Tribe believe that all bison in the world belong to them as a natural right, which gives them free reign to take bison from anyone. Of course, just like the above question, it all depends on numbers and the situation. A band of bison riders might ask for a "present" in return for letting you use one of their bison, if they are otherwise well-disposed to you. >4. What keeps Praxians in Prax? Is it the Guardian Hills? (The Six Sisters, >seen in Troll Realms, are supposed to contain wards set up by the >Grazers... But they don't seem to have stopped Argrath's allies, or the >raids on Tarsh during the interregnum.) Is it the inhabitants? I imagine >that Sartar is more fertile and full of good grazing, and the Praxians >would want to use it. The Praxian plains and the wastes (once you get past Vulture's Country) contain sufficient grazing for the tribes. There would be two reasons why the Praxians don't move into Sartar/Dragon Pass. First, the terrain and climate does not suit their nomadic way of life, and second, it's better just to ride in and out of place on periodic raids, taking stuff you can't get in Prax (ie. metals, luxury goods) than trying to take over the place permanently. Jaldon Toothmaker occasionally appears to lead the Praxians in to Dragon Pass on great raids, but they are not mass migrations. A mass migration might take place if something happens to the nomads in their homeland (just like the various barbarian movements in the dark ages), but the nomads seem more likely to move east into the unpopulated Wastes than try to crack the tough nut that is Sartar. --------------------- From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway) Subject: scrums, shields, fazzur, you name it Message-ID: <9311210812.AA05379@hp0.zycor.lgc.com> Date: 21 Nov 93 08:12:14 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2387 charles gregory fried in X-RQ-ID: 2325 >> - Once combat was engaged, it was VERY difficult to perform any maneuvers >> with a hoplite phalanx. The general's role and skill would come into play >> only before the troops met toe to toe. The maneuver and tactics are quite intricate, actually. Crush or be crushed. >> - Pushing was very important. (And so those shield push games among the >> Yelmalions are very apposite.) The idea seems to be that the first rank cf. Nick's very appropriate scrum comments. >> tries to wound and/or knock over the opponents, allowing the whole phalanx to >> rush forward. It is then the job of the back ranks to finish off the downed >> foes. A very specific technology evolved for this purpose: the butt-spike. if trampling didn't already do enough. Phalanx Shields: >> What all this implies for RQ, I'm not sure, except that the rules >> developed for individual combat must become irrelevant in certain >> massed combat situations -- realism would not be served by having >> every member of a phalanx roll his Attack and Parry %. Also, a really Attack maybe, parry, no way. The shields were meant to be used as a wall, and as plows, not for knocking aside single blows. RQ Shields: charles gregory fried in X-RQ-ID: 2367 >> The trad-off for using the shield as I described is that you cannot parry >> blows aimed at on landing on areas not covered by the shield. The shield >> just counts as extra armor for those areas covered, provided you make a I'd prefer a more GURPS-like mechanic, here. In GURPS, a shield adds "passive defense" to several locations, automatically. It is also usable for blocking blows. The problem with RQ armor *and shields* is that the system only takes penetration resistance into account, not deflection ability. Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 2329 >> because of the wider territories claimed by city-states in the late Archaic >> and early Classical periods (meaning the army needs to march further, thus >> carry less weight)? From Victor Davis Hanson: >> ... >> : authors have been reluctant to discuss the disadvantages of hoplite >> : arms and armour, but they were many. Heavy, uncomfortable, unbearably >> : hot, the panoply was especially poorly suited for the Mediterranean This is also part of the reason the open-faced helm, and helms with hinged cheek pieces replaced the more closed single-piece ones. Armor left the legs and arms first, then the vital areas where greater mobility was a must. Remember also that much of the role of the leg armor was to ward off missiles, a task easily accomplished by a cloth hung from the bottom of the shield. >> : been poorly trained, and the scythe-wheeled chariots were a complete >> : fiasco, provoking the Romans to open laughter and ironical applause. This is a lovely image. You often don't think of how the troops feel in a battle ( other than good morale, bad morale, routed, etc. ). Joerg Baumgartner in X-RQ-ID: 2356 >> Whitewall had fallen when Fazzur was relieved from the command, and the >> Cradle incident cost Sor-eel's post, not Fazzur's. But, as Sandy pointed out, Sor-Eel was one of Fazzur's cronies and supporters. Though, as you pointed out, previous complaining may have cost Fazzur. >> [...] The emperor was especially disapointed by events in Kethaela, >> which ruined one of his parties. The command sought a scapegoat, and >> Fazzur was relieved from his command." Apparently Tatius and his cronies offered Fazzur up as a sacrifice, got him cashiered, and took over. They got it in the end, though. >> So it was Euglyptus the Fat who was tricked by the Pharaoh's (exotic, >> in DP terms) magic. Looks like. Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 2378 >> 50 x 2 (bright/dark Lunar balance) x 10 (residual DH influence) = 1000. Makes the accounting easier, as well. A legion is a legion is a ... >> Tarshite unit -- as you'd expect, Heartland officers often abbreviate and >> refer to their Native allies as "'shite troops". Are you sure about that 'e'? >> BTW, Chris Gidlow brought round a copy of Chaosium's Credo! yesterday, and >> it looks absolutely beautiful! I am delighted with the production effort >> that went into making this version of the game, and have high hopes that it >> will be appropriately recognised by the vast gaming public out there... >> >> (Hint: This Means You) XO@#! I've been buggin the hell out of a couple of local stores for them to call me as soon as it gets in. Dead silence as yet. Grrr. Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2359 >> Note that, according to DP, if the Bat is killed the Emperor has to >> go through a lengthy (year-long?) ritual to recover it. So it's not >> much of a victory. I suggest that your PCs instead devote their Requiring a year to replace, and probably requiring a fair portion of the Emperor's time during that year is "not much of a victory"? I'd say it would get his attention pretty effectively, of course, your other suggestions (re: killing cult members) would cause much greater harm, and would be *possible*. Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 2370 >> Geoff Gunner mourns his Wyrm: >> > I'll get that bugger Halgrim yet, just see if I don't ... >> >> Two words in your ear: "Grendel's Mother". There's something even nastier, >> even more malevolent out there -- and she's *really* pissed at Halgrim. A couple of questions: 1. Are Wyrms not degenerate forms of Dragon(newt)s? Could he not "come back"? 2. Can Dragonewts & Co. call for Divine Intervention? Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2326 >> Also Malia initiates, as a member of a "Dangerous" cult, must be >> licensed. This also applies to other dangerous cults such as Humakt >> and Issaries (the former because their members can have geases >> forcing them to distrust certain races or cults; the latter because Would Yelmalions have to get licenses as well? >> I know for a fact that there is at least one Lunar dynasty of nobles >> who traditionally train bisons to ride. However, they're good Lunars, >> and only the Irrippi Ontor sages in town know why that dynasty has >> that custom. I'm sure there are other traces of such activity. Which town/city? >> Peter Michaels sez: >> > please do tell why Praxpack is probably-not-going-to-be-published. >> >> Maybe it WILL be published. It's just that I haven't heard any word >> on it for a long time. I.e., have not received back the manuscript so >> I can finish it up, stuff like that. I guess I just assumed AH had >> lost interest in it. Myself, I'd love to see it in print. This ought to be on someone's list of things to publish. If not Avalon Hill's, then maybe Reaching Moon Megacorp or RQ Adventures should consider it. Clark Hobbie-x7513 in X-RQ-ID: 2363 >> I am looking for comments from other people's experience: have you >> found it difficult to find RQ stuff. If yes have you talked to store Store owners don't stock it, or don't stock it in a particularly sell-able way ( i.e. tucked in the back, spines out, underneath Mythus, ... ). This seems too have changed a very little since the new stuff has come out. Special orders come through as rapidly as anything eelse, so it doesn't seem that the problem lies with the distributors. Colin Watson in X-RQ-ID: 2371 >> nice in a sourcebook. Ah, a sourcebook for each cult... I'll keep dreaming. I'd take a sourcebook for each pantheon, or each culture, or anything... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | john_medway@zycor.lgc.com | Landmark Graphics Corp | 512.292.2325 | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: sullivam@mlc.lib.mi.us (Mark Sullivan -- Michigan Library Consortium) Subject: Military Organization Message-ID: Date: 21 Nov 93 07:02:09 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2388 (Nick Brooke) Re: Mythic Military __________________ > John Medway asked: >>> rounding it after reaching the 7x7 basic 'platoon': >>> add one officer, and you can start counting in fifties. >>> Lunar culture is still very Dara Happan >> But what mythic significance translates the units of >> 50 into 1000 (or thereabouts)? > 50 x 2 (bright/dark Lunar balance) x 10 (residual DH > influence) = 1000. > This would mean that each 50-man platoon was paired with > another for what-ever reasons spring to mind... In Sun County, which I just picked up, states on page 45: "Templar units are organized into 64-man units called 'squares' or 'sixty-fours' like the Lunar armies." This quote implies that the Lunar Army uses 64 man units. Is there any particular reason to create a different model for the Lunar Army? A related question, since the Sun Dome Temple organization seems based on (similar to) the Macedonian phalanx organization of file = 16 men 4 files = platoons of 64 men (tetrarchia/Tetrarch) it seems that this similarity would carry on to larger units. 2 platoons = company of 128 men (taxiarchia/Taxiarch) 2 companies = big company of 256 men (sytagma/Sytagmatarch) 4 of these = regiment of 1024 men (chiliarchia/Chiliarch) 4 regiments = phalanx of 4096 men (Macedonian unit name/commander's rank in parentheses.) Seems like the regiment (chiliarchia) is the right size for a Dragon Pass game Lunar regiment. If the Sun County Templar organization is typical of traditional Yelmic military i.e. Dara Happan organization, perhaps the Lunar Army (with its Dara Happan influence) has this same organization. The military mind is typically very traditional and its hard to see a change in the army structure just to get a seven in the TOE. If the army structure is working (i.e. Dara Happan style hopolites) why mess with it? > I reiterate my question of a few days ago: does anyone > know how living near (rich, fertile) Peloria has changed > the Sable Tribe of the Hungry Plateau? Especially since > they became rulers of Kostaddi and took over the City of > Two Towers. Maybe they have become dichotomous. Wealthy, decadent rulers inundated with the luxuries of empire ruling from the City of Two Towers while they maintain a core of tough, hardened warrior/herders on top of the Hungry Plateau. The HPers serve as soldiers acquiring wages to send home (from which the ruling nobility takes a healthy cut, oops just taxes). The Kostaddi rulers may use the HPers as a sort of Praetorian guard (actually maybe more of a Varangian guard) to maintain their control of the lowland farmland. The rulers control the HPers through two means: 1) by the use of bribes, I mean gifts, to the HP clan chiefs consisting of the usual gold, jewelry, et al along with arms, armor, and foodstuffs. 2) by controlling the strategic location of Two Towers they have a lock on trade and can shut off the transport of food which the HPers population has grown to need. All this is merely speculation on my part and has no imprimature. A related question. Not having the TotRM article on Humakt (see whine below), I was paging through my copy of Cult of Prax and I came across: : The Humakti (as they are called) have a rigid intra-temple structure. : They are organized along military lines with the Rune Lord or High : Priest called Captain, and ten Priests or Lords called Centurions, : each Centurion has up to ten Initiates or Lay Members called sergeants. Question: Whose military lines does this derive from. It sounds much more organized than traditional Orlanthi culture. Is it a relic of the EWF or a localized Pavic construct? Is this apparently tens based structure the basis for a Lunar decimal army (via Yanafal Tarnils)? It doesn't seem to me to be very feudal/knightly so I don't know if it fits with Carmanian Humakt/Yanafal Tarnils worship. Nick also mentioned an article in TotRM and said: > I hope we can find some way to reprint it one of these days... YES! YES! YES! I have just sent off my check for a subscription but I am told that virtually all the back issues are unavailable. This must be fixed. How can Gloranthan addicts who did not know to subscribe early enough catch up. Must we be cursed to remain in unenlightened ignorance? [Hysterical Nick Brooke convert to TotRM mode off.] * Mark Sullivan * --------------------- From: JLROGERS@utkvx.utk.edu (Jim Rogers) Subject: Questions, Questions Message-ID: <01H5L9FP3W0I8ZFHHG@utkvx.utk.edu> Date: 21 Nov 93 16:06:44 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2389 RQ Gang, The level (and volume) of the Daily has taken great strides lately, encouraging me to write in with questions / comments. Thanks in advance for the replies. (1) (To Sandy P. esp.) Though I've really enjoyed the Pamaltela stuff (more, more), I've got a general question about Prax: Any chance about seeing postings on the minor tribes of Prax - Zebra Riders, Bolo-Lizard Riders, Unicorn Riders, Agimori, Ostrich Riders (joke?), etc.? (2) (To all you GMs, and pundits, and rules-lawyers) I tried this once before, but persist. GoG states that only a few cults give Lords the 1d10 Divine Intervention - Humakt, Kyger Litor, Orlanth, Seven Mothers, Uleria [why do they have Lords?], Yelm, Yemalio, Zorak Zoran. I can't see the rhyme or reason for this, and is a change from all cults advantage to Lords in RQ2. Any explanations? Justifications? Do you GM with this, or change? (3) (RQ collectors) A friend of mine can lay his hands on back issues of White Dwarf Mag. He's willing to buy the issues that have RQ stuff in them, if he only had a list of which issues had RQ stuff. I know that there was a listing of RQ articles from another mag. (White Wolf?) a couple of days ago. My buddy might be willing to donate his new collection to the RQ Con auction for this info. End of Questions. After reading some of the posts, I'd like to encourage all us RQ-philes to subscribe to _Tales of the Reaching Moon_ . The tribal map of Sartar in Issue # 6, despite the cryptic "missing tribe", is a must for the classic campaign setting. The much expected Pamaltela issue from MOB and the Aussies will hopefully stir things up here about that neglected part of Glorantha (OK, so is Kralorela, and other places too!). For N. America, contact David Gadbois via gadbois@cs.utexas.edu. Cost just went up to $4.00, and worth every one. End of Advert. Interesting to read that some other RQ gangs planned to do in the Crimson Bat. After all, if the assassins can do it in DP, someone must be able to. Our plan included Seal Wound, Berserker, and Teleportation. Many great fumble stories also, but the funniest involved one prospective Storm Khan and two encounters with Rock Lizards - both times he was criticalled in the right leg. Fearless with Vampires, Broos, and even Gorp, he would cower in fear at anything that looked like a Rock Lizard. Thanks, and I'll go back to reading again. Jim R. --------------------- From: sullivam@mlc.lib.mi.us (Mark Sullivan -- Michigan Library Consortium) Subject: The Block and Wintertop Message-ID: Date: 21 Nov 93 19:52:21 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2390 While poring over my recently purchased copy of River of Cradles I noticed on the Common Knowledge section of the RoC map - The Block This giant rectilinear block of rock, 500m on a side and 2km tall... This would seem not to overshadow earthly mountains, but it still ought to be seen from pretty far off. If it is two kilometers tall it doesn't compare with Wintertop's 12 (please say it's a typo) kilometers [from p61 of Genertela Book, GoG]. I mean just how high *is* the atmosphere? That there middle air must go up pretty damn high or those Shakers are breathing with oxygen tanks. Now if the Block casts a shadow that blocks the Red Moon's glow it would seem that the umbra would lie across the Devil's Marsh. What can we deduce, if anything, from this? Maybe Lunar priests are no more likely than anyone else to want to visit the Marsh? * Mark Sullivan * ---------------------