From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 25 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID:
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: MAB@SAVAX750.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK (Mystic Musk Ox)
Subject: Females + Pronunciation
Message-ID: <9311240913.AA01343@Sun.COM>
Date: 24 Nov 93 08:14:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2421
>I feel that Glorantha is probably the most accepting of females
>of any roleplaying world made. Look at the various pantheons
>and arrays in GoG.
---------------------
>> Chaos: Females are equal or superior to males in every cult except
>> for Thed, since broos are almost all male.
>> Lunar: as with Elf, females are not only wholly accepted, but most of
>> the Lunar religions worship female gods. Annilla, Arachne Solara,
>> Orlanth: These guys have tons of outlets for females. Not only is
>> there an entire earth pantheon effectively barred to men, but none of
>The most interesting area for these women would probably be down in the
>Holy Country, which, like the Lunar Empire, is sadly underrepresented in
>background materials.
Hm. I can't help feeling that the fact that there are many female deities
has not much to do with the way women are treated in the world. There are
many examples of female goddesses from Earth, and cults that only women
were allowed to join, but that doesn't mean that those women had power.
Usually they were of the 'female mystery' type i.e. 'women are strange and
different and therefore dangerous' or of the 'women on pedestals' type
where they were venerated for abilities e.g. childbirth or work in the home.
However the fact that you can venerate a stereotypical idea strangely seems
to have little effect on the way you treat the real object - thus women still
had no real powers - Greece for example had very powerful female deities
Hera, Aphrodite, Athena, Demeter, et cetera, but in reality women had no power
at all to decide their fate, and were regarded as property.
As far as I know there have been NO examples of matriarchies on Earth. On
Glorantha of course, it might be different, but I suspect that the changes
this would bring about to the structure of the societies would be much
greater that the 'stick in some weird gods and a few spells' approach.
there have been some cultures that traced matrilinear descent (best example
I can think of at the moment being the Picts and the Irish), but that is
purely a way of ensuring that the children have at least half the family
blood in their veins, and the males still held the power in those societies.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Shite' : Is pronounced to rhyme with 'height' or 'light'
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: Runic Sorcery: Done already
Message-ID: <9311240921.aa16105@uk.ac.ed.castle>
Date: 24 Nov 93 09:21:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2422
The concept of runic sorcery has been mooted a bit recently on the Daily.
I seem to remember a rules set for this in a Digest a while back. The idea
was that each rune would have an associated skill, with the Law and Chaos
runic skills being used in place of intensity. It seemed to me to be at
least partialy based on the Ars Magica system, which is ok by me.
I think I have a printed copy somewhere, but not an electronic copy. Perhaps
it is lurking somewhere on soda?
I liked the orriginal concept, but it needed further development to be useable.
Simon Hibbs
(Please mention my name in subject lines.)
---------------------
From: sullivam@mlc.lib.mi.us (Mark Sullivan -- Michigan Library Consortium)
Subject: Wintertop, military org., PharAOh, etc.
Message-ID:
Date: 24 Nov 93 05:48:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2423
Steve Gilham [height of the Block]:
Nice! Your explanation was much more concise then mine.
-------------------
Allan Henderson:
> I know that 12Km sounds a lot but Mt. Everest is 8.9Km high and
> humun beings can climb that without Oxygen in tanks. If life is
> designed to go up that high (or spends a lot of time
> acclimatising) then life on earth can live up to 21,000 feet.
> Nothing else lives at this altitude so there is no need for
> people to go to this height. In reality the problem of oxygen is
> normally superceded by the problems of extreme cold, and very
> high winds.
It sounds like a lot cause it *is* a lot.
Everest is 8.85 km or 29028 feet (1990 World Almanac).
Wintertop's 12 km is 39,372 feet.
(That's like piling one of the tallest peaks in the Pyrenees
on top of Everest.)
Altitude record for Class C-I, Group II--Turboprop Airplanes
is 15.549 km.
Thus the difference between Everest and Wintertop is about
the same as the difference between Wintertop and the Turboprop
airplane altitude record.
21,000 feet = 6.4 km which is just a bit over half the height
given for Wintertop. It still seems that oxygen is going to
be as much of a problem as wind and cold.
> Which bring me to how to make an adventure of players climbing
> Wintertop. This is a fantasy world so let the player climb to the
> top without worrying about oxygen, which they can do very little
> about.
I liked your ideas on climbing Wintertop, but I think oxygen should
be a problem. One solution: use controlled Sylphs to provide
breathable air.
---------------------
Paul Reilly:
> We've been using forty-nine man units in our campaign for more
> than ten years... my comments on army organization are based on
> what we did, long before SUn County came out. Seven seems a more
> logical base for the Lunar organization than eight.
Except that it does not allow you to evenly divide files so as to trade
depth for width in a formation. Note with 8 man files one can divide into
two short 4 man files or (for the truly desperate) into four 2 man files.
Similar effects derive from the 16 man file.
The 8 man file was the standard hoplite formation in classical
Greece. The Macedonians used 16 man files. The Roman squad
(contubernium) was 8 men.
Ten man files allow more flexibility than seven man files (at least
we can divide to get two 5 man files. But even tens are not as
flexible as eights (or sixteens).
Paul continuing...
>> Seems like the regiment (chiliarchia) is the right size for
>> a Dragon Pass game Lunar regiment. If the Sun County Templar
>> organization is typical of traditional Yelmic military i.e.
>> Dara Happan organization, perhaps the Lunar Army (with its Dara
>> Happan influence) has this same organization. The military
>> mind is typically very traditional and its hard to see a change
>> in the army structure just to get a seven in the TOE. If the
>> army structure is working (i.e. Dara Happan style hopolites
>> [let's make that hoplites]) why mess with it?
> If you look back in my original comments you'll see that I
> believe that the Dara Happan units are still organized in the
> traditional way (of course in our campaign this was decimal, like
> the Mongols, rather than octal.) However the new regiments
> organized by the various Daughters, i.e., Yara Aranis, Hwarin
> Dalthippa, etc. are on the new organization (7's). As you say if
> something is working why change it but I would say that in the
> period during which Sheng Seleris was sacking the Moon the army
> structure would perhaps not be best described as "working" very
> well.
But how do the sevens fix the "problem?" You are now stuck with
a 7x7 block of troops that can't be rearranged without unevenly
dividing the files. I agree that seven is nice for mystical or
mythological reasons, but I don't think it is practical for
tactical reasons. Eight, sixteen, or even ten all work better.
Maybe the sevens should be at a higher organizational level.
With eights you get tactical flexibility and by grouping three
8 man squads under an NCO into a platoon, you can count by 25s
(or 50s or 100s).
-------------------
Henk Langeveld
> Can you get rid of these '=20'?
I don't know. I don't even know why they are appearing.
I'll try something different when I upload and see if it
helps.
>>Pharaoh vs PharOAh
>>A while back it was mentioned that Pharaoh was misspelled
>>PharOAh in old articles. Well the PharOAh is back.
> NO no!
YES yes!
>>River of Cradles page 7:
>>"1616 Mysterious death and disappearance of Pharoah;"
>Can't you read? It says *disappearance*
OK. The Pharoah disappeared. Then where is the Pharaoh?
All this Pharoah/Pharaoh thing is silly. I really wish all
concerned would get a spell checker. There is no excuse for
the continued misspellings. As a side note, it appears to be
spelled correctly in the Old WBRM rules.
[Note that by all concerned I mean publishers who are
charging money for a product. I realize that on the Daily
there will be an occasional misspelling. (e.g. see above in the
quote of my original post--hopolite/hoplite). But if someone is
taking my money I expect them to do some proofreading and spell
checking. Even my spell checker picks out the difference between
Pharaoh and Pharoah.]
Well class that's enough from Mr. Words for today. ;-)
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9311241841.AA15954@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 24 Nov 93 06:41:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2424
Steve Gilham sez, with reference to Glorantha's acceptance of
females:
>I say : just look at the balance on male over female (even
>discounting the gender-free) gods in "Gods of Glorantha"
Okay, let's!
FEMALE: Aldrya, Asrelia, Bagog, Chalana Arroy, Dendara, Eiritha,
Ernalda, Etyries, Gorgorma, Grain Goddesses, Krarsht, Kyger Litor,
Malia, Maran Gor, Red Goddess, Subere, Thed, Triolina, Ty Kora Tek,
Uleria, Voria, Xiola Umbar
Total = 22
MALE: Argan Argar, Donandar, Dormal, Flamal, Godunya, "Horned Man",
Humakt, Hunter (most), Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, Lodril, Lokarnos,
Magasta, Mastakos, "Mostal", Orlanth, Pamalt, Storm Bull, Trickster,
Tsankth, Valind, Wachaza, Waha, Yelm, Yelmalio, Zorak Zoran
Total = 26, of which a few are questionable
INDETERMINATE OR SEXLESS: Ancestor Worship, City Gods, East Isles
Gods, Hykim, Immanent Mastery, Invisible God, Pocharngo, Primal
Chaos, River Gods, Seven Mothers
Total = 10
I deny this shows any kind of preponderance. If you use the
Prosopaedia, you get around 100 male to a little over 70 female
deities. Compare this to any other gaming world. Tekumel has 4 female
to 16 male deities. In the D&D pantheon book, the proportions are
even worse.
>I say : just look at the post-hoc rationalisation about the "King
>of the Trolls" in Sazdorf.
From the beginning, the Sazdorf tribe was intended to be a series of
ever-greater revelations about who ruled the tribe. I submit that the
existence of a secret Queen was always part of the mix, and your
identification of the players' misdirection as "post-hoc
rationalization" is, in fact, incorrect. They didn't even get to meet
the guy claiming to be the "King" for several gaming sessions.
>I say : just look at the actual balance of males & females of
>importance in the Glorantha book.
I saved this for last because it is, in fact, a telling blow. Arrgh,
ya got me! I have no defense. I still stick to my theory that
Glorantha is the "best" of gaming worlds re: females. This doesn't
mean the authors are perfect.
Chris asks:
>Do other people relate anti-Lunar and Cultic activities? What I mean
>is, do you good people have Cultic policies against the Empire that
>could actually become orders to Cult members ?
In my own campaigns, such activities are generally clan-based or part
of a secret society, and not part of the cult itself. I play that the
cult is only a part of society for most Gloranthan people, with some
important exceptions (Yelmalio, frex).
Allan Henderson sez: Lotsa cool stuff about climbing mountains.
Thanks, Allan. This is handy info. I would also like to point out
that in Glorantha, the further away from middle Earth you get, the
more powerful and magic things get. Up too high on Wintertop the
players should expect encounters with ice demons (Hollri) which are
Bad News. Also, since this is the birth place of Yinkin the Cat, you
may meet gigantic shadow cats (say tiger or pony-sized). Not to
mention the sylphs and trolls you'd indicated.
Your article impelled me to give one of the more important reasons
for climbing Wintertop, beyond a number of Heroquests that start or
end here -- if you go up the right (magic) way, it looks DOWN on the
Red Moon, and you can jump over to it.
Anthony Ragan asks:
>So.....who were the Syndics and why did they lay this ban down on
>western Genertela?
The Syndics were a conspiracy located in Loskalm. When Zzabur's
Closing of the seas spread across the world, a Hero (whose name
someone else will no doubt recall, but for me is lost in storage)
found a map of Fourth Age Glorantha. On this map, Loskalm was
non-existent (just a big bay). He realized that Zzabur's spell was
intended not only to Close the seas but also to wipe out all of
Zzabur's foes (like the Malkioni). The hero got a bunch of friends
together and they performed a ritual to slay the God of the Silver
Feet, the deity of communications (in fact, Issaries). This destroyed
all communication between regions of Fronela and instituted the
Syndics' Ban. The good part was that Zzabur's spell could not
communicate itself across the land and apparently rebounded to sink
Brithos instead (small loss). The bad part was the Ban itself, which
is now starting to wear off, evidently as a side effect of Dormal's
breaking of the Closing.
re: Yelmalio troublesome geases
The main Darkness cult in the Lunar Empire is the Blue Moon, which
Yelmalio cultists holding the appropriate geas would no doubt cause
trouble with.
---------------------
From: ianmc@sybase.com (Ian McCreery)
Subject: Newbie Question
Message-ID: <9311241854.AA01988@lakshmi.sybgate.sybase.com>
Date: 24 Nov 93 18:54:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2425
Hi -
I have a question: If I was interested in starting a RuneQuest campaign,
what books/supplements would I need...which ones should I get...??
Thanks
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Mountaineering; =20
Message-ID: <9311241735.AA26383@condor>
Date: 24 Nov 93 17:35:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2426
_______________
Allan Henderson wrote about mountaineering:
>Which brings me to how to make an adventure of players climbing Wintertop.
[...lots of terrifying suggestions for spicing up the climb...]
These are great ideas which make mountaineering a lot more interesting than the
standard climb rules suggest: "Make a roll every 10m" is fine for short climbs,
but it is tedious for long ascents (not to say deadly - even the best climber
would fumble every 1000m or so).
I played a game recently which involved climbing a mountain. The GM had to
work hard to convince us that it wasn't completely insane to begin with.
Then we spent a good hour or so rolling dice to see how the climb went: this
was a big mistake (and the GM realised it) - it was *mind-numbing* up to the
point where somebody would fumble their climb, then desperation would strike
as we attempted to save the unfortunate PC from certain death. It's a bit like
playing Russian roulette (and about as enjoyable). Consequently now I'm
heavily in favour of abstracting climbing rolls as much as possible.
I think shifting the emphasis away from random dice rolling is a great idea.
>In the real world people die every week on mountains because they thought
>they wouldn't need any fancy equipment.
Mountaineering with bronze-age equipment seems close to madness IMHO. I like
the idea of inflicting environmental hardship on the PCs to create atmosphere,
but personally I wouldn't make it too deadly. There's nothing heroic about
dying of exposure (same goes for falling or drowning) so I would tend not
to inflict fatal damage with these methods if I can help it (unless the PCs
have been exceptionally dumb). If PCs are going to die I prefer them
to go out with a bang rather than a whimper. ;-)
>Just when all hope/food/fuel is gone have the players find a snare with a
>mountain hare in it, or an adventure frozen for decades with a pack
>of firewood and an ignite matrix. Most of all give them hope, have the clouds
>part briefly showing them the summit, or a dream of the safe end to the
>journey.
I'm glad you added this. Nice to see someone else likes to give their players
a break once in a while.
BTW Are there any climbers out there who would like to give an estimate of
how far you can climb on average before making a mistake (fumbling) and
finding yourself dangling unintentionally from a rope?
And has anyone actually scaled Griffin Mountain in a game? It looks like
sheer folly to me unless you can fly...
_______________________
Henk asks Mark Sullivan:
>Can you get rid of these '=20'?
Hmm, I thought they were gormless-looking smileys for folk with strangely
shaped noses. ;2)
___
CW.
---------------------
From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall)
Subject: Reaching Moon Megacorp and Convulsion
Message-ID: <931124215616_100116.2616_BHJ31-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 24 Nov 93 21:56:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2427
David Hall here:
Praxpak
>This ought to be on someone's list of things to publish. If not Avalon
>Hill's, then maybe Reaching Moon Megacorp or RQ Adventures should consider
>it.
>The German RuneQuest-Society is considering to publish selfmade
>scenario packs (in German language, though). The financial effort for
>such a project is quite high, and one needs a professional distributor.
>I don't know whether Reaching Moon Megacorp can manage a _regular_
>output of sourcebooks and/or scenario packs. I know we have problems to
>get the first thing started...
We'd really like to publish Praxpak! However, I suspect we'd infringe
Avalon Hill's RuneQuest copyright if we did. From my own experience,
getting a publication laid out is the hardest and most time consuming job!
Also getting decent finished scenarios for a pack is very hard work.
UK distribution isn't a problem for us (and luckily there are a lot of UK
RQers). Distribution elsewhere, especially to the USA, is a problem. One
aspect is the physical problem of of literally shifting 1,000 or so copies
of a supplement or book overseas. Distribution of The Collected Griselda
was something of a nightmare!
Convulsion '94. Warning! We only have around 40 places left. Write to the
Tales of the Reaching Moon editorial address for details.
Issue #11 has been delayed "due to technical difficulties". Wyrms
Footprints is much the same. I hope to get #11 out sometime in December,
but as the days slip by I'm not so sure. I can't see WF out before late
January at the very earliest.
The reprints have now been officially cancelled due to the lack of interest
in issue #5. However, MOB has mumbled something to me about putting
together a "Best of Tales #1 to #4 + #6 + some other new stuff". How's
about it, MOB?
Anyway, back to the Home of the Bold 2 grindstone...
Cheers,
David
---------------------
From: fmoll@cix.compulink.co.uk (Frederic Moll)
Subject: La Guerre des Heros
Message-ID:
Date: 24 Nov 93 22:12:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2428
Wonderful news for DP Fans... The french version of Dragon Pass
is out in french stores under the name "La Guerre des Heros". The colorful
map came in 2 parts with nice counters.
Sorry for the english-only players, all the names on the maps are
translated in french !!
After a quick glance to the rules booklet, I've seen this text :
"Il est parfois fait reference au jeu Nomad Gods qui sera publie ulterieurement
par Oriflam."
This means that in the future, Oriflam will publish the French version
of Nomad Gods !!!!
The game "La Guerre des Heros" is published by Oriflam and costs
approximately 255 french francs right now...
Happy RQing...
Frederic MOLL
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail)
Subject: Humakt healing geas; London Calling
Message-ID: <199311242247.AA15760@radiomail.net>
Date: 24 Nov 93 22:47:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2429
What's the meaning of Humakt Geas #10 "accept no magical healing at all?"
Can the Humakti cast healing on himself? Can his allied spirit cast it?
What happens if he's unconscious and it's cast on him?
It looks like I'll be in London on Official Business this Sunday-Tuesday.
I've been informed that I'll have no free time as I'll have to socialize
with people we want to work with, but I might get a chance to say hello to
some of the British readers of this Digest, or at least talk on the phone.
David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net
"I say we should listen to the customers and give them what they want."
"What they want is better products for free." --Scott Adams
---------------------
From: mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au (Mr Robert McArthur)
Subject: see 'da blok
Message-ID: <199311250413.OAA28854@fitmail.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 25 Nov 93 19:13:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2430
Mark Sullivan's mailer, with a dash of AI, says:
>
> The Block is 6562 feet tall; 1.5 x 6562 =3D 9843.
> The square root of 9843 is 99.21; hence the Block's horizon is=20
> 99.21 miles [which for all the klom fans is 158.74 km]. This is
the Block's (interesting we are using capitals for it) horizon =2099.21 miles
:-)
I think you had better do something about your '3D' effect (is that like
in dice for characteristics?) and your '=20'...
Robert