From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 26 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID:
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
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From: scn/G=Neil/I=A/S=Harold/O=Siemens_plc/OU1=Congleton@mhs.attmail.com
Subject: Climing skill (esp. up Wintertop)
Message-ID: <9311250850.AA20631@Sun.COM>
Date: 25 Nov 93 08:44:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2434
>Are there any climbers out there who would like to give an
estimate of
>how far you can climb on average before making a mistake
(fumbling) and
>finding yourself dangling unintentionally from a rope?
I'm not an expert on climbing, having only started last April,
but I certainly find that a *proper* climb with a rope,etc. will
not be that far: unfortunately, 10m is not unrealistic, or am I
just that bad :-(
Really it all depends on the severity of the climb. I can
sometimes climb 50m without a problem, but not get 10m up without
a problem. I would like to think that I have at least a 50% climb
skill in th real world, but would I like to try WinterTop: not
with my meagre skill.
A further problem is that most climbers practice reguarly, which
would not always happen in Glorantha.
WinterTop Flora and Fauna
Would I be correct that the sides of WinterTop are more or less
smooth: climbable(?) but certainly no where for animals to roam
around? I imagine that there is a gateway to the God Plane on the
top, but I can't see any encounters with non-flying animals on
the way up (the climb will get you first anyway!)
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Mountaineering; =20
Message-ID: <9311250928.AA26080@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 25 Nov 93 11:28:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2435
(Colin Watson):
>These are great ideas which make mountaineering a lot more interesting than the
>standard climb rules suggest: "Make a roll every 10m" is fine for short climbs,
>but it is tedious for long ascents (not to say deadly - even the best climber
>would fumble every 1000m or so).
>I think shifting the emphasis away from random dice rolling is a great idea.
>BTW Are there any climbers out there who would like to give an estimate of
>how far you can climb on average before making a mistake (fumbling) and
>finding yourself dangling unintentionally from a rope?
This is the approach to take. The % skill system
does not scale with larger time intervals. Skill
percentages must be used as gradual skill levels
at longer intervals, and indicate progress.
I'd use the skill in two ways: First, determine
general skill level of the party as the lowest
climbing/mountaineering skill of any single
member. This determines nominal progress per
day, if the leader rolls a normal success.
Half progress if the leader fumbles, and require
individual skill checks for all party members.
A normal failure would deduct 25% or so, while
a special/critical success would add 25%/50% to
progress.
Never should the daily dice roll result in 'sudden
death'. You should at least be two or three dice
rolls away from anything really disastrous...
This would apply to any skill resolution over longer
periods, not just mountaineering...
Those =20s looked hair-raising, didn't they?
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
---------------------
From: GE92AMR@ccs.edge-hill-college.ac.uk (ADRIAN M RUSSELL)
Subject: RE:SHIELDS and ARMOUR
Message-ID:
Date: 25 Nov 93 13:43:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2436
In our runequesting we have allowed multiple shield parries at a
deduction of 20% on skill after the first. Though different to how I'm
used to playing, this seems to work quite well.
I've thought about armour and its ability to absorb damage without
affect, one suggestion would be to allow armour to be damaged by
blows of over double its AP. I think this would provide a certain
amount of realism especially where 'hard' armour is concerned as
rents and dents would make the armour not only less affective but
also less comfortable. The x2 factor would also stop armour being
completely useless. Think of all those repair spells players would
have to use.
I've got a problem with armour enchantments. If a body area is
armour enchanted this would suggest that a critical hit has no 'gap' in
the armour to bypass ----'help'---
I have a player who loves to play the Trickster, given that it is hard
to collect a wide range of Trickster spells due to the nature of shrines
it would follow that it would be hard to regain any of these spells. I
have allowed this player to regain any divine spells at any Trickster
shrine as they are all linked in the 'divine' sence. What does anyone
think of this?
--TRICKSTER EATS--
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From: eosgg@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
Subject: Matriarchies, Magic, and starting campaigns.
Message-ID: <9311251457.AA27347@raesp-farn.mod.uk>
Date: 25 Nov 93 14:57:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2437
As regards to matriarchies (Mystic Musk Ox) it's true that there haven't been
any major civilisations that were matriarchal. Smaller societies it's a lot
more common, as can be seen in tribal Africa. I think it has to do with the
needs of amassing power; childbirth causes a break in this, so the men have an
advantage.
But the trollish matriarchy doesn't seem unduly unreasonable, so if you have a
STRONG female deity and lesser male deities, then why shouldn't the culture
follow this line ?
re: Misspellings. A very good point - why don't the publishers get a spell
checker or even put some effort into proof reading. 'Sun County' I dimly
remember as being exceptionally dreadful in this regard.
BUT - can you see any of us not buying a product purely because of bad spelling?
Nor me. We're a captive market.
re: The map of Fourth Age Glorantha. Err ... what about the Great Compromise ?
I though time travel was supposed to be a No-No (Heroquesting's more travel to
No-Time). So *HOW* did this wretched document get there ???
To: Ian McCreery, on Starting a Campaign - Go for 'Apple Lane'. Nearly
everyone has played it, there are lots of loose ends for you to create new
scenarios with, it showns nicely a couple of key things about Glorantha ( err..
Ducks ... errr ... Newtlings), and besides, it's *FUN*. That should get you
started off nicely. 'King of Sartar' is THE reference book for Sartar, sadly,
so that's next on your list. 'Gods of Glorantha' you should get eventually
because a large part of RQ is the different cults (as one wise soul said on
the digest some time back, a damn good way of gewtting the right idea about
cults is to get your players to behave as they imagine the god would behave).
After that, it depends on your finances. This is a minimal budget setup,
assuming you want to be located in Sartar. Other people may recommend starting
in Prax, which does have the advantage of a lot more published scenarios.
But it's next door to Sartar, so you could always start in Sartar and force your
players to emigrate to Prax, 'for a crime they didn't commit' !
re: Colin Watson's not making climbing too deadly.
But Colin; if you make it perfectly clear to them that they're in bad trouble
if they go on, and they persist, then let them die. If you don't, won't they
always do the same whenever a similar situation occurs, relying on you letting
them off the hook ? As Allan implied, it's stupidity that kills.
re: David Dunham and Humakti geas #10 - we've always played it that he mustn't
accept any healing; that is, if anyone tries to heal him he gets very angry,
and Humakt possibly does something nasty as his Geas has been broken. Though
not as nasty as what happened to Cuchulain, I hope. But this raises a very
important point:
When does a spell have to overcome MP's in order to work ?
Is it something in the spell which says 'I am an evil spell' ? In which case
the humakti gets screwed when the baddie throws a 'beneficial' heal 1 onto him.
Does the target's spirit detect the effects of a spell, and resist it if it
doesn't like the effects ? Very clever, and (IMHO) not the case. And that
Is it (my favoured-disliked solution) that ANY spell which is not deliberately
accepted by the recipient must make a MP roll ? In which case, watch out for
those high-POW'd characters getting knocked out in battle. It could proove to
be impossible to overcome their MP's to sucessfully heal them. This solution
I feel is the right one, but a decade of being a player screams out in protest.
I remember an old White Dwarf article on 'benign spells' in D&D that
automatically suceeded. They were complete buggers in the right situation
(my fave was 'spiderclimb', letting you climb up walls. Cast it upon an enemy
mage and all his spell components stick to his hands, making spellcasting
impossible. Not bad for a 2nd level spell, with no saving throw allowed).
How have others solved this issue ?
Geoff.
---------------------
From: crawford@explorer.clark.net (D.Schubert)
Subject: Womyn in Glorantha/RQ
Message-ID:
Date: 25 Nov 93 06:47:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2438
[Editorial comment: I deleted 34 quoted lines -HL]
> As far as I know there have been NO examples of matriarchies on Earth. On
> Glorantha of course, it might be different, but I suspect that the changes
> this would bring about to the structure of the societies would be much
> greater that the 'stick in some weird gods and a few spells' approach.
> there have been some cultures that traced matrilinear descent (best example
> I can think of at the moment being the Picts and the Irish), but that is
> purely a way of ensuring that the children have at least half the family
> blood in their veins, and the males still held the power in those societies.
>
Hmm, I don't agree with you on matriarchies never having existed on earth.
This is a hot debate between anthropologists and I don't think it is worth
getting into here, other than to say that if you
are interested in researching some of the pro-matriarchy theories, one such
book to read is "Women's Evolution," by Evelyn Reed.
I think we can all agree that having an issue of ToTRM devoted to womyn
in Glorantha and on womyn role-players is a great idea. I do find that
Glorantha/RQ is much better than other published role-playing worlds when
it comes to womyn, but this should not be used as an argument
against further discussion/exploration of the subject.
David Schubert
---------------------
From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: Reprinting TotRM
Message-ID: <9311251726.AA15800@Sun.COM>
Date: 25 Nov 93 17:25:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2439
>The reprints have now been officially cancelled due to the lack of interest
>in issue #5. However, MOB has mumbled something to me about putting
>together a "Best of Tales #1 to #4 + #6 + some other new stuff". How's
>about it, MOB?
>Anyway, back to the Home of the Bold 2 grindstone...
>Cheers,
>David
How many do you need to cover cost of reprinting ? ... Maybe there are enough
interested people on the list to make it viable ...
Thom
---------------------
From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: Nomad Gods
Message-ID: <9311251729.AA15874@Sun.COM>
Date: 25 Nov 93 17:27:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2440
>From: fmoll@cix.compulink.co.uk (Frederic Moll)
> Wonderful news for DP Fans... The french version of Dragon Pass
>is out in french stores under the name "La Guerre des Heros". The colorful
>map came in 2 parts with nice counters.
> Sorry for the english-only players, all the names on the maps are
>translated in french !!
> After a quick glance to the rules booklet, I've seen this text :
>"Il est parfois fait reference au jeu Nomad Gods qui sera publie
ulterieurement
>par Oriflam."
> This means that in the future, Oriflam will publish the French version
>of Nomad Gods !!!!
Sounds like very good news ... now if only I could get hold of an English copy
of Nomad Gods ...
Thom
---------------------
From: carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Air, and geasa
Message-ID: <199311251915.AA05202@panix.com>
Date: 25 Nov 93 09:15:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2442
sullivam@mlc.lib.mi.us (Mark Sullivan -- Michigan Library Consortium)
cites Allan Henderson:
R>> I know that 12Km sounds a lot but Mt. Everest is 8.9Km high and
>> humun beings can climb that without Oxygen in tanks. If life is
>> designed to go up that high (or spends a lot of time
>> acclimatising) then life on earth can live up to 21,000 feet.
>> Nothing else lives at this altitude so there is no need for
>> people to go to this height. In reality the problem of oxygen is
>> normally superceded by the problems of extreme cold, and very
>> high winds.
I don't know how I missed this. No, they can't. Humans require
supplemental oxygen to reach the peak of Everest.
R>I liked your ideas on climbing Wintertop, but I think oxygen should
>be a problem. One solution: use controlled Sylphs to provide
>breathable air.
Oxygen? What's oxygen? Oxygen is not a relevant concept in
Glorantha, where Air is an element. We need Air to breathe, not some
imaginary component of that air.
ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail) writes:
R>What's the meaning of Humakt Geas #10 "accept no magical healing at all?"
>Can the Humakti cast healing on himself?
No.
>Can his allied spirit cast it?
No. Or rather, as a Humakti cult spirit it might be capable of doing
so, but wouldn't.
>What happens if he's unconscious and it's cast on him?
He gets really, really angry.
--Carl
---------------------
From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: Climbing Wintertop
Message-ID: <9311251934.AA26919@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 25 Nov 93 21:34:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2443
Date: 25 Nov 1993 17:13:14 +0000
From: Thom Baguley
To: RuneQuest Daily
>From: sullivam@mlc.lib.mi.us (Mark Sullivan -- Michigan Library Consortium)
[...stuff deleted ...]
>I liked your ideas on climbing Wintertop, but I think oxygen should
>be a problem. One solution: use controlled Sylphs to provide
>breathable air.
I think lack of Oxygen on Wintertop would be unaccesptable - aren't mountains
Sacred to Orlanth (especially Wintertop). I would imagine that (given this
elemental association of air with earth) that (breathable) air extends all the
way to the sky. I think that only when you reach the sky might breathing become
a problem ... (maybe you have to be able to breathe fire or aether?)
Thom
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Cosmology and minor matters
Message-ID:
Date: 25 Nov 93 20:05:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2444
Mark Sullivan in X-RQ-ID: 2416
>Joerg Baumgartner on: Mountains, the universe, and everything
>> It would be nice to think of the sky as the upper half
>> of a sphere, and the realms of darkness (i.e. hell, or
>> wonderhome in trollish legends) is the lower half.
>I really liked your idea on the divided sphere. Sky above, Darkness below,
>and Earth/Sea dividing the two. But if Air fills the void between Sky and
>Earth, due to Air's sundering of Earth and Sky, why is there a parallel
>half-sphere below? Air didn't sunder Earth and Darkness. Still I like
>the image too much to give it up.
Where did you think I'd put water? This came between Darkness and
Earth, and to my information still is there...
Where do we get: One half sphere below, Darkness, containing the Lower
World, therein Water, drifting upon that, Earth (with a big hole in the
middle, Magasta's Pool, leading right down to the Lower World), a half
sphere above, Sky, with the Upper World inside the shell, in between Air.
Where both spheres meet, we find the Outer World: Luathela and the Gate
of Dusk, Altinela, Vithela and the Land of Dawn.
>However, I would contend that because of Orlanth's defeat of Yelm and the
>displacement of the Sky by Umath, that Air blocks the line of sight.
>Sight is an attribute of the Sky. In God Time before the birth of Umath,
>sight was not blocked. One could see in a straight line as far as the eye
>could see. Now the power of eyesight is limited due to the defeat of the
>Sky gods by the Air gods.
Runic ties Dart Competiton starting again: the appropriate sense for
Sky is heat sense - of little practical use, like a certain emperor
cult.
>So, how far can one see in Glorantha. I don't know. It probably varies
>based on the relative strength of Sky vs Air on a daily/weekly/seasonal
>basis. "On a clear day you can see forever"?
I liked Paul Reilly's proposal that light rays are as bent as a certain
leading light deity or his rune...
I am not a Yelm sympathizer, am I?
John Medway in X-RQ-ID: 2417
>MOB in X-RQ-ID: 2386
>> David:
>>>1. How hated _are_ horses? (Would a band of Praxians attack someone just
>>>because he rode a horse?)
>> Yes! (Unless there's more of you than them, you're under the walls of
>> Pavis, or whatever)
>Good. I'm counting on that for a scenario.
Hmm. Borderlands "Into Giantland" had the PCs ride on HORSES to the
Hidden Greens and on to Gonn Orta's Pass, and in the oasis scene (with
the greeting contest) they seem to be accepted if they manage to beat
the nomads at their own games.
[me about Yelmalio licenses]
>I don't have the rules here, but isn't there a geas regarding darkness cults
>and/or creatures? Though the ZZ nutcases are kept closely watched, what about
>Annilia? Xiola Umbar? Argan Argar? These exist in some number in the empire,
>and a Yelmalio with any geas regarding them may cause a bit of a problem.
So the Yelmalios keep their mouth shut, and refrain from assisting? Big
Deal, really...
>Then again, especially in Dara Happa, it would always be the trolls who were
>blamed anyway.
Oh, and there Yelmalio's name would be Antirius or something, not Elmal
or so...
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2413
>Joerg Baumgartner asks:
>>In the description of the Silver Shadow Sultanate/Satrapy it is
>>mentioned that the region basks in the silver shine. Does this mean
>>that tne Red Moon is translucent, and focusses the stars' light onto
>>the crater, after filtering out the red glow it sends out?
>>And how high is the Crater, how high above it is the moon?
>The Silver Shadow sultanate is where the moon blocks out the sun's
>light. Presumably, since the sun circles Glorantha while the moon
>stays still, this is primarily a magic effect. Either that, or the
>eclipse only happens at noon.
Another one for the unresolved moon physics department. I'll put it to
the question of Lunar cycles within the Glowline. But again: in which
height must I expect the Red Moon? In KoS a rogue planet is said to
blot out her Redness's light at Dwernapple, so it must be pretty high.
>The Crater's surface is, in fact, on the moon itself. There's a magic
>connection between the two.
So to scar the moon's face, I just can Fissure the Crater as per Maran
Gor spell? Cute, once the Exiles go into the cosmetics department.
Nick Brooke subjecting Enemies Without Friends in X-RQ-ID: 2414
>> If any adventurer party wants to play a part in the upcoming Hero Wars,
>> quest for these artifacts, and deliver them into the focus of fighting,
>> Sartar.
>Might be stiff competition from that Garrath Sharpsword in Pavis... I think
>he's got pretty much the same idea.
My idea exactly. But since this guy will take a three year break soon,
travelling the ocean, opportunity is better than ever before!
BTW, has anybody (with access to a somewhat detailed version of the
Harrek-Saga) ever thought about doing that Cradle scenario, and then
accompanying Harrek and Argrath on their trip south?
>> And what kind of Malkioni were those from Nochet? How many were there?
>> How important was their bishop in city politics? How important is he
>> now? Is it Nochet where the highest religious authority of the Trader
>> Princes of Maniria lies, or is it Ralios?
>My theory: they're a peculiar old-style sect of pacifist white-robed types
>who live in the catacombs beneath the city and still defend some ancient
>secrets entrusted to them by Arkat the Conquerer at the end of the First
>Age. Their bishop *was* important a while ago, maybe, but is now pretty
>well removed from the official centres of power. I use them like the early
>Christians in Rome ('round about Nero's time): good for rioting against or
>persecuting, and with oodles of secret converts and recognition-signs.
This certainly would have changed with Dormal becoming a major cultural
hero. But then: who pretends to run Nochet, and who does so in reality?
What would a visitor to Nochet experience?
Your picture of Nochet Malkionists fits perfectly into later Second Age
Nochet, when the God Learners had the upper hand, and traditionalist
Malkioni (other than Hrestoli Linealists developing into Rokari) were
forced into hiding. In Third Age Maniria, with all those other Malkioni
around, why should they hide? It's rather the Issarian Church who would
get that medieval Jew stigma of the non-producing, interest-grabbing
merchant drawing all that money out of the land. And the Trader Princes
seem to be well tolerated all over Maniria.
Nochet is the place most likely to meet Malkioni whose believes
drastically differ from each other's, and the bishop would have to be
economically - oops, oecumenically inclined to satisfy all. An
Issarian, to communicate and earn... I'm getting cynical.
>The Issarian sect of the Trader Princes would probably be centred around
>their mercantile hub at Venice -- sorry, that's Handra -- but would be
>pretty decentralised in any case. Not related to the Nochet sect (except
>insofar as they're all Malkioni together, for what that's worth), though
>they'd certainly have trade missions with accompanying church officials.
Venice never was a spiritual centre in Italy.
Malkionist sects regarding each other: I know that the Jonating sect
(seemingly based on Second Age linealist Hrestoli sect, thus differing
from Loskalm) acknowledges the Ecclesiarch from Southpoint (idealist
Hrestoli) as highest religious authority, as do most Fronelan
henotheists ("Stygians" seems inappropriate here, where Arkat never had
been). How so without losing its identity? Or does the distance help,
as it did for Pelagian and Irish sects in Celtic and Anglosaxon
Britain?
Then I have a cameo for you: accompany the Ecclesiarch's legate from
Southpoint to Okarnia, and make sure he or his dignity aren't injured.
For inspiration, get information about legate Germanus' mission with
Vortigern and his Pelagian supporters (Gildas' accusation of Celtic
lords' unholiness, as interpreted in "The Quest for Arthur's Britain",
ed. Geoffrey Ashe).
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de