From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 27 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID:
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9311262127.AA00398@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 26 Nov 93 09:27:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2460
re: Gloranthan women and their place in society.
I don't think there's any Gloranthan societies in which men are
equated with women in all social aspects, but I don't believe there
are any Earthly societies in which this is the place, either.
Mystic Musk Ox sez:
>There are many examples of female goddesses from Earth, and cults
>that only women were allowed to join, but that doesn't mean that
>those women had power.
But it certainly doesn't DISPROVE their power. Among trolls and elves
female supremacy is taken for granted. Among dwarfs, gender appears
meaningless.
In the Lunar Empire, the example of Jar-Eel, Hon-Eel and the many
lunar "marriages" arranged to conquer neighboring tribes combine, I
feel, to show that women are important. Among the Orlanthi barbarians
it is less clear, though certainly women are regarded highly. At
least in Esrolia, the women definitely rule the roost. At least one
major Sartarite rebellion (Starbrow's) was undertaken at the behest
of a woman, with no puzzling or lack of fervor over the female
instigation.
Among the rather male-oriented Praxians, all female animals and most
other belongings (90% of the beasts) are considered the property of
the wife, not the husband.
Clearly in Glorantha, as on Earth, there is a tendency for men to be
the highest-ranking leaders (most countries have kings and emperors
instead of queens and empresses). Despite this, females aren't
oppressed or downtrodden in many Gloranthan societies. If you also
recall that almost all RQ writers, gamemasters, and players are male,
the extent of female power in Glorantha is pretty impressive.
And that's all I'm going to say on the matter.
re: Climbing mountains
In my own campaign, when mountain-climbing was needed, I just had the
players roll their Climb skill a very few times, increasing the
danger of a failure, and making everyone roleplay out the rescue of
whomever had utterly failed. I tried to add additional skill rolls,
too, making them Jump precipices, Devise solutions to problems, etc.
This seemed to make the mountain journey more than a pile of D100
rolls.
Dave Dunham asks:
>What's the meaning of Humakt Geas #10 "accept no magical healing at
>all?"
I think it's pretty clear. You can only heal naturally, through
Chaotic regeneration, or via healing potions. Naturally, this sounds
like a fairly dire Geas, and it is. My own suspicions are that the
only Humakti that choose this Geas are those that plan to die in the
battle, or those that are old and retired and plan to fight no more
forever (and who want to give their son/heir a keen magic sword).
>Can his allied spirit cast it?
Yes, but he'll have broken his geas and his sword will thenceforth
shatter until he undergoes the appropriate repentance.
>What happensn if he's unconscious and it's cast on him?
He'll have broken his geas and his sword will thenceforth shatter
until he undergoes the appropriate repentance. He may be angry or
grateful at the casting, depending on whether he is pleased that his
life was saved or upset that his geas was thus shattered.
Graeme Lindsell asks:
(Thanks, by the way, for reminding me that it was Prince Snodal who
killed the God of the Silver Feet.)
- could the devastated Fronela Snodal saw in the book be the result
of the Ban itself, which we know inflicted great destruction on the
region? Could the atlas have been a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Not an unreasonable speculation. This doesn't necessarily
eliminate the possibility that the Closing might have sunk all of
Fronela beneath the ocean without the Ban.
- Killing a god for mundane advantage is a markedly God Learnerish
act. Could the Loskalmi have some GL knowledge?
You bet. Remember that the GL Empire had lotsa contact with
Loskalm. Also, it was only a few specific things that the GL's did
that were expunged forever from the world (though most of the GLs did
'em and were likewise expunged). GL influence lives on.
- Though some people say predictive magic is impossible in Glorantha
due to the effects of Time, obviously the Gods and Heroes who are
outside Time can see the future with ease.
There's lots of predictive stuff in Glorantha -- the
prophecies of the Hero Wars, for instance. The important thing is
that these prophecies are not foreordained.
Ed Wallman asks:
>I have never seen anything in print on the length of time between
>tides other than to say they occur now and then and what happens.
>Could someone give a description of this?
The Blue Moon rises up from the north of the sky dome, but ABOVE the
dome, so that no one can see it. It takes a variable amount of time
to rise from due north to the exact center of the dome, where it
falls through the hole there and right down through Magasta's
Whirlpool, which is the only time it is visible (and then, usually
magic is needed).
During the Blue Moon's ascent, the tides rise. Rules lawyers could
roll 2d4-1 for the number of days needed. The tides always fall in a
single day. Hence, Gloranthan tides are quite different from Earthly
ones. Sometimes the tides are stronger or weaker, but always take
multiple days to rise and only one to fall. There IS a cycle to the
tides, and most coastal peoples have it worked out perfectly, and can
predict the tides for as many days in advance as anyone cares to ask.
But for most gaming purposes, 2d4-1 is good enough.
I said:
> In the EWF's wars against the Dara Happan Tripolis, they may well
> have used Praxian mercenaries.
So Nick Brooke asks:
>do you mean the Pure Horse Tribe who inhabited all of Sacred
>Prax during the Second Age, or those animal nomad scum across the
>River in Vulture Country and the Wastelands?
There were plenty of nomad scum in Prax, too. Just because the Pure
Horse people choose to misremember their golden age as one in which
they ruled all ... But I meant that the EWF may well have used animal
nomads.
Geoff Gunner ponders:
>re: The map of Fourth Age Glorantha. Err ... what about the Great
>Compromise ? I thought time travel was supposed to be a No-No
>(Heroquesting's more travel to No-Time). So *HOW* did this wretched
>document get there ???
Big Gloranthan Secret To Be Kept From Your Players: Time-Travel is
possible in Glorantha, but only one-way -- to the past. You can't go
back to the future again. At least, that's my opinion. I personally
believe the Pharaoh to be a hapless Heroquester who has fallen into
the past. I once quizzed Greg on this point, and he agreed. But I
remember another time I talked to him about it, and he felt that
Gloranthan Time Travel should only be into the future! I guess so
long as it's one-way, problems won't arise.
>When does a spell have to overcome MP's in order to work ?
I have always played that this is the case when a player is taken by
surprise or when he chooses not to accept a spell. If he's
unconscious, we play that he cannot resist any spell (except Really
Bad ones that would cause the player to rise up in righteous wrath
should I inflict it on him -- like Pocharngo's Corruption). In
general, our players are trained to yell out that they're casting
Protection (or whatever) when they're behind one of their friends and
casting a spell, so that he'll know to refrain from resisting.
D. Schubert sez:
> I don't agree with you on matriarchies never having existed on
>earth.
Whether or not they ever existed (as you said, still hotly debated),
the fact that every single one of them has been dissolved or
otherwise replaced by other types of societies by the middle Bronze
Age would appear to put them out of the running as viable
alternatives, unless they're boosted with magic (as in Glorantha).
re: Dolphins in Glorantha
The Oslir river is immense, and has dolphins, like the Yangtse and
Amazon on Earth. There are even civilized newtlings that use the
dolphins and other large water-beings to operate small craft.
re: Top of the World
You can also jump to the moon from Top of the World. But you can jump
either way from that place, so I surmise it's shorter than Wintertop
(which as near as I can tell, you can't jump up to from the Moon).
TODAY'S ESSAY:
Is on: Inora, Hyena, and a bunch of tiny little tribes.
INORA, THE WHITE PRINCESS
She is a winter spirit closely related to Himile, and is the
goddess of frost -- the Snow Queen, if you will. In Prax, Inora is
viewed as just another powerful spirit to be contacted for her
benefits. In less arid country, she is regarded as a malign entity to
be propitiated. I imagine that SOMEWHERE in Glorantha she has an
organized cult, but she's pretty minor. She shows up in Yelmalio's
Hill of Gold quest as an enemy to be endured just before the chaos
monsters come. The spell she teaches at shrines (and to the Praxians)
causes all the ground within range to be frozen, and the plants to be
covered with frost. When the sun comes up, this rapidly melts and
everyone enjoys the moisture. In Sartar, her spell causes the
equivalent of an ice storm, and is quite aggravating.
HYENA
Hyenas are the main predator of the Wastes, not counting
humans. None of the animal nomads think of them as primarily
scavengers, recognizing them as pack predators that can be quite
dangerous. The hyenas know enough not to harass a party of mounted
nomads, but they'll steal calves at every opportunity. Since they
hunt at night, they are regarded as akin to creatures of Darkness,
and Morocanth tame them in preference to dogs (most Morocanth dislike
dogs and vice versa).
Because hyenas devoured Genert's body, they are accursed, and
their peculiar laughing cry is the sign of their mocking attitude
towards existence. As it happens, their devouring of Genert also
means that their corpses count as "part of Genert", and so certain
Issaries merchants, upon encountering corpses of the Praxian species
of hyena, are sometimes required to take a pilgrimage to the Krjalki
Bog. This is regarded as obnoxious enough that most other
Lightbringers will often kill hyenas on sight.
BOLO-LIZARD FOLK
These people are traces of the lost Golden Age Folk, the
people of Tada. They are proud of their descent. Of course, by now,
they've heavily interbred with the other nomad types. Therefore,
traces of the Golden Age physiognomy are highly valued among these
folk, and are cause for high social rank and desirable marriages.
They worship Eiritha and Foundchild, mostly. Waha is viewed
as an alien god, but Eiritha's usefulness is clear. They don't eat
their lizards, except in emergencies, and live almost exclusively off
hunted prey. They're good hunters, and talented with their bolas. The
stupid lizards lay eggs, of course, and then abandon them. The
Bolo-Lizard Folk carefully mark down where the eggs have been laid,
and then camouflage them as best they can, so that when the eggs
hatch, they can be there to catch the young lizards and try to raise
them. It takes two or three seasons for the hatchlings to attain a
size at which they are able to keep up with the troop, so the owner
of a given egg batch generally takes his beasts up into the foothills
of the Rockwoods to raise the damn things.
Perhaps because of their lifelong battle against their
lizard's instincts (formed when the Wastes were a fertile paradise,
and contrary to common sense nowadays), the Bolo-Lizard folk are
famous for their cynical sense of humor. They are pygmies, like the
Impala Folk.
OSTRICH RIDERS
Probably the puniest tribe in Prax. They're pygmies, and ride
big birds. They eat their birds' eggs, which are laid in fairly large
clutches. Once a year, the birds sit on their eggs and so for that
season (Sea), the tribe is basically immobilized and vulnerable to
large-scale raids. Like many small tribes, they also primarily
worship Foundchild.
BASMOLI BERSERKERS
The plains lion of Prax is now basically extinct. The Basmoli
Berserkers, a Hsunchen people, are in the peculiar position of being
Hsunchen without their animal cohorts. They are fierce hunters, and
mainly hunt the herd animals of the Great Tribes. Always spoiling for
a fight, they are disliked by everyone else. Occasionally the tribe
is able to produce a lion (don't ask), but it is always sterile,
unable to mate and produce more lions. Still, it is a valued
tribesmember while it lives, and it is certainly bad news in a fight.
CANNIBAL CULT
The Cannibal Cult is composed of members of many tribes. They
worship and placate the many hungry ghosts infesting Prax (other
devastated lands with such ghosts also often have a Cannibal Cult
organization). These ghosts are well-known to every shaman -- they
are hungry, and never fed. They are cold, and never warmed. They are
lonely, and never loved. If the Cannibal Cult did not propitiate them
from time to time, they would get so hungry that they rose up and
killed everyone! What matter if the Cult derives actual magic
benefits from their service?
In addition, there is a very Praxian touch to their madness
-- they believe that everyone else got Waha's decision backwards --
they believe that we are supposed to eat People, not beasts. (Hence,
they'll eat Morocanth, but dislike herd-men.) Of course, the
difficulty of getting enough people to eat means they've got to
settle for animals and normal beasts on many occasions.
The Cannibal Cult is not without honor -- for one thing, they
can only derive magic power from the body of an enemy. They don't eat
their friends. In addition, the more powerful the enemy eaten, the
more strength they get. For this reason, the Cult naturally
cultivates powerful enemies. Of course, this means that the Cult can
never be very big -- the powerful enemies see to this. Sort of a
self-limiting philosophy.
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Fri, 26 Nov 1993: Adrian Russell: Trickster
Message-ID: <9311260912.AA28204@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 26 Nov 93 11:12:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2449
>From: GE92AMR@ccs.edge-hill-college.ac.uk (ADRIAN M RUSSELL)
>X-RQ-ID: 2436
> I have a player who loves to play the Trickster, given that it is hard
>to collect a wide range of Trickster spells due to the nature of shrines
>it would follow that it would be hard to regain any of these spells. I
>have allowed this player to regain any divine spells at any Trickster
>shrine as they are all linked in the 'divine' sence. What does anyone
>think of this?
>--TRICKSTER EATS--
Trickster is the exception. Allow tricksters to regain spells
whenever you think it's appropriate. At a shrine, whenever they
fall into a heap of dung, what you like...
Being a trickster is *not* fun. They can do what they want, but
the price is high: all others can do what they want with
tricksters; they're outside the law.
I consider Trickster to be a bunch of related spirit cults.
One for every aspect. Initiation into Trickster rarely is
voluntary, nobody with a normal sense of mind would join the
cult of his/her own free will.
But that's the point...
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
---------------------
From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance)
Subject: Re: =20
Message-ID: <01H5R54XT64Y006F1A@UG.EDS.COM>
Date: 25 Nov 93 18:32:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2450
>> Can you get rid of these '=20'?
>
>I don't know. I don't even know why they are appearing.
>I'll try something different when I upload and see if it
>helps.
I believe that this occurs when the route taken by the mail
passes through an installation that insists on 72-column,
no-control characters, text. This may mean IBM. The = comes
where a line break is forced; the 20 I'm not so sure about, but
occasional 09's suggest tabs have fallen foul of EBCDIC
translation.
Sometimes I've had whole digests turn up thus reformatted.
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: climbing mountains
Message-ID: <9311261510.AA19231@condor>
Date: 26 Nov 93 15:10:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2451
_______________________
scn/G=Neil/I=A/S=Harold wrote:
>I'm not an expert on climbing, having only started last April,
>but I certainly find that a *proper* climb with a rope,etc. will
>not be that far: unfortunately, 10m is not unrealistic, or am I
>just that bad :-(
Damn, I hoped you would say you got further than that. :-)
(But thanks for the info anyway.)
I never cease to be impressed by the free-climbers I see on TV. Granted,
they're climbing warm, dry desert cliffs rather than cold, icy mountains; but
to me their fumble-ratio seems much less than 1%...
(Are they HeroQuesting or what?:-)
____
Henk:
I liked your idea for abstracting climb chances for long ascents. Would you
care to put a figure on how far "normal progress" should be?
____________
Geoff Gunner wrote (about deadly climbs):
>But Colin; if you make it perfectly clear to them that they're in bad trouble
>if they go on, and they persist, then let them die. If you don't, won't they
>always do the same whenever a similar situation occurs, relying on you letting
>them off the hook ? As Allan implied, it's stupidity that kills.
Absolutely. But in an RPG you always have a trade-off between Realism &
Heroism. The important part of what you said above is the bit about making
the situation "perfectly clear" to the players. The warning signs to the
players have to be clear and yet subtle. Unsubtle warnings destroy the
atmosphere of the game:
eg.
My GM tempers his games with a degree of realism. Consequently, when his plot
requires us to climb a mountain we approach the task with a certain amount
of trepidation:
"Get real," we say, "We only have bronze-age equipment; we don't even know
what's up there; and besides that, we're not very good at climbing!".
What's the GM supposed to say?
"Don't worry lads, the plot requires that you climb the mountain so I'll
go easy on you *this time*." ??
But subtle warnings can be misinterpreted:
eg.
When the GM emphasises the howling gales; bitter cold; driving snow etc. is
he just building atmosphere or is he intimating: "You're all gonna die if
you persist". ?
The question boils down to: How much heroism (stupidity) do you let the
players away with?
In my case the answer is: Quite a lot.
If the players read the subtle warnings wrongly then I'd rather let them off
lightly than clout them with an unsubtle directive. I'd give them fatigue
penalties; maybe loss of a HP or so; but I wouldn't kill 'em outright (although
the next monster they meet might). That's just how I like to run things...
___________
Nick Brooke says:
>CW> Mountaineering with bronze-age equipment seems close to madness IMHO.
>
>Seconded. Though I belong to the Robert E Howard school of plausibility...
You and me both.
(I've always fancied running some Hyborian RQ. Has anyone tried it?)
___
CW.
---------------------
From: allan@tcrystal.gla.ac.uk (Allan Henderson)
Subject: Mountains
Message-ID: <16930.9311261607@sushi.tcrystal.glasgow.ac.uk>
Date: 26 Nov 93 16:07:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2452
Yo All,
Carl Fink writes -
>I don't know how I missed this. No, they can't. Humans require
>supplemental oxygen to reach the peak of Everest.
No they don't. In 1988 Habbler and Mesner two Austrian climbers got to
the summit of Everest using no supplemental oxygen at all. (Mesners biography,
can't remember the title). Mesner later climbed Everest solo without oxygen
in three days (he is a complete nutter).The oxygen thing on Everest is a bit
of a myth from the thirties. In 1923 Norton climbed to 28,300 feet turning
back only because daylight was failing. In 1905 the Duke of Abrutzi
got to within 150m of the summit of K2.
(Mark Sullivan -- Michigan Library Consortium) writes -
>I would imagine that (given this elemental association of air with earth)
>that (breathable) air extends all the way to the sky.
So, a justification for my "lets just ignore the oxygen problem" at last.
Colin Watson writes -
>Are there any climbers out there who would like to give an estimate of
>how far you can climb on average before making a mistake (fumbling) and
>finding yourself dangling unintentionally from a rope?
It depends what your climbing on, on stairs I can go all day without falling
but on overhanging ice climbs I don't do so well.I suggest leaving the
current rules alone but giving much greater emphasis to modifiers for
the type of terrain. Here are some of my ideas, the modifiers may seem
extreme but probably reflect reality.
Covering Rock Type Incline
Ice -50% Crumbling -40% Very steep +10%
Moss -20% Smooth -20% Vertical +0%
Running Water -40% Hard & Jagged -20% Overhang -20%
Water -10% Good holds +20% Sever overhang -50%
The above are only suggestions, but I'm sure that you get the idea that only
masters should be able to get started on an ice covered granite cliff with
an overhang.
One thing about these clibing rolls is that the majority of any ascent is
actually walking. I have been to the summit of a great many Scottish mountains
but have climbed on surprisingly few, and can only think of one where
climbing is essential. So if players are making an ascent then only have the
occasional set of climbing rolls.
How far away can you see the block ?
Mark Sullivan writes -
>However, I would contend that because of Orlanth's defeat of Yelm and the
>displacement of the Sky by Umath, that Air blocks the line of sight.=20
>Sight is an attribute of the Sky. In God Time before the birth of Umath,
>sight was not blocked. One could see in a straight line as far as the eye
>could see.
I like this it is a neat explanation of the heat-haze/mist that stop people
seeing there beloved holy mountains. Remember that normal visability is
less than 40 miles.
I wrote off these seasons for the following reasons :
FIRE - heat haze also no fire in the Sky since Yelm lost his power
SEA - mist in the atmosphere, also no Sky connection with Sea
DARKNESS - It just doesn't seem right to be able to see far in darkness season
EARTH - Sky and earth are forever apart
STORM - The clouds are all stirred up
I like the idea of allowing people to see all the way to there sacred mountain/
piece of law during the SACRED TIME. Imagine the scene of 50 storm bulls
gathered on a hill top in Sartar at dawn to catch a glimpse of the block in
the red glow of Yelms first light, now that would be magic.