From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 30 Nov 1993, part 1 Message-ID:Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried) Subject: heroquest Message-ID: Date: 29 Nov 93 09:14:22 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2474 Greg Fred here. After a longish lull, I must GM my sporadic pseudo-Gloranthan campaign, and I would very much appreciate feedback from any of you on something I have never run before: a heroquest. This is a tricky one too, because the PCs are not the initiators of the HQ -- they are being drawn into it as ritual adversaries (as I have been led to understand is natural in HQing -- you attract the appropriate opponent). Understand in all of this that I have succeeded in keeping my players almost ENTIRELY ignorant of Gloranthan material not IMMEDIATELY appropriate to their characters (who are from a remote and primitive society to boot). They have only heard oblique whispers about heroquesting. If it happens that they are drawn into one, they will get their minds blown at first. And I WANT this to happen! They SHOULD be amazed and that's what I'm shooting for in the roleplaying. So... skim through what follows if it interests you to give advice, and advise me on making the HQing experience as good as possible! The immediate plot background is that the PCs have journeyed far from their remote tribe to seek aid from a tribe of Agimori. In my campaign, the Agimori are even more clsoely tied to Lodril and volcanoes; my PCs freed a volcano godling on their home island. The PCs found the Agimori near a great volcano, Mt. Bathur, in a mountainous region. Bathur warms the land immediately around him and allows the Agimori to survive in this clime. While the PCs were negotiating with the Agimori, an army of trolls appeared and challenged the Agimori to battle, on pain of surrenduring certain treaty rights (this is all connected to previous plots the PCs have gotten embroiled in, but this is not immediately important). The PCs were sent by the Agimori to defend a strategic pass. While on duty at the pass, the PCs and their Agimori companions saw saw strange blasts of snow and heard loud noises on a nearby glacier. Unable to venture out into the cold, the Agimori sent the PCs out to scout the glacier, known as Hrelk's Glacier. The PCs discovered a band of trolls at some exotic task on the glacier, and attacked. That's where we left it last time -- the PCs charging into battle (against trolls, whom they've never fought before -- the dumb yahoos!). This is what the PCs don't know: The trolls are led by a troll priest of Himile. He is trying to create a gollem out of the ice of Hrelk's Glacier to send against the Agimori, since he knows how vulnerable they are to cold. He knows that he must heroquest to complete this task, and he hopes to attract ritual opponents to himself in a way that he can most effectively control. The myth the troll wants to interact with is the following: before Time, in the wars against chaos, Lodril sent one of his sons, Bathur, up to the surface to scour a region clean of Chaos. Bathur did his father's bidding and now stands sentinel over the evil he has subdued. But during the Dawning, in the last epoch before the gods withdrew from the world and so fought to secure as much as they could for their own domains, the gos of Winter and Darkness encroached upon Bathur's lands. The greatest of these was Hrelk, god of a mighty ice-river. Bathur met Hrelk in combat and thwarted his advance. This is known as Hrelk's Demise, and now Hrelk's Glacier halts above the Agimori lands, melting into a lake known also as Hrelk's Demise. The troll Himile priest does not (yet) dare attempt to reverse this mythic fight: he just wants to intervene long enough to grab a piece of Hrelk at the moment he shatters, and bring this piece back to animate his ice gollem. (Yes, this is a smart troll! Himile is a god of troll nobility as I play it.) So, the players will be defeated in battle, but not killed (I will probably have them rendered unconscious by an ice-blast breath weapon the priest has acquired on a previous HQ). They will then be deposited in an ice-cell prison within the glacier, as the troll prepares his ritual..... Elements of the ritual the troll needs to deal with: 1) Someone representing the forces of Heat and Mt. Bathur. Volcano worshiping PCs will do just fine! 2) In the myth, a great, true dragon helps Bathur. The troll wants to pre-empt this as far as possible. He has captured crested dragonewt, and has tossed it into the cell with the PCs. He hopes that if they enter the HQ, the draconic aspect of the story will be limited to this insignificant representative of dragonkind! 3) In the myth, Hrelk's cause is undermined by some traitorous trolls. The Himile priest als wants to pre-empt this aspect of the story. A value trollkin, Zurthk, has been found guilty of egregious uppityness. His penalty: to be thrown in with the humans as a ritual opponent in the HQ. Zurthk is crucial. He is intelligent and understands what is going on. He knows the myth, and he knows what the priest is attempting to do with him. He knows his only hope of surviving is to convince or trick the PCs into entering into the HQ and then fulfill the ritual function of betraying his own kind -- but the PCs must win. Then he may escape to live as an outcast, outlaw trollkin. SO Zurthk is the PC's ritual helper in the heroquest cycle, who must tempt them into the quest. And the PCs do the same for him! BUt he must cope with the natural suspicion the PCs will have for him. He will give only enough information to keep things moving. Of course, the PCs should wish to replicate the heoric deeds of the volcano godling! I thought the crossing-over to the god/hero-plane might involve leaping off a ledge into a blinding wall of falling, driven snow -- to emerge from a huge snow-drift in the mythtime of the Dawning (David Dunhams suggestion). So does this sound right? What should I include? What kind of reward could the ritual opponent in such a HQ earn? What would the troll's weaknesses be? How can I make this most fun for the players, while at the same time true to the spirit of heroquesting and RQ? Thanks all! -- GF out. --------------------- From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried) Subject: time-bending Message-ID: Date: 29 Nov 93 09:28:27 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2475 GF here again. On the subject of time and prophesy in GLorantha, I have a goddess in my campaign who DOES enable true prophesy; however, this power is deemed Chaotic, for obvious reasons. Moreover, the power, as available to cultists is very limited. Employed as a rune spell, it allows you to intuit the actions of your opponent. In practical terms, this means anyone employing this power gets to hear each of their opponents' statements of intent for a round before undertaking an action. Anyone interested in a write-up of this goddess should write to me personally. GF out. --------------------- From: fkiesche3@aol.com Subject: Beginning RuneQuesters Message-ID: <9311290832.tn68335@aol.com> Date: 29 Nov 93 13:32:23 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2476 Greetings All: I am seeking advice from the venerable RuneQuest sage types here on the Digest. I am (slowly, due to massive overtime problems) developing a RuneQuest campaign. I am a beginning RQ Ref, the players that have expressed interest are all novices to the RQ genre. We will be playing a campaign set on Glorantha. I'm looking for advice on how to start this whole shebang. What is the best way to introduce the massive amounts of information available (background, foreground, social, religion, etc.). How much of the grand scheme (upcoming Hero Wars, etc.) should the players (as, most likely, inhabitants of the small village to start) be aware of? Think back, oh venerable sages. How did you start? Maybe we can come up with something really good to submit to Avalon Hill. I would like to see (as a future product) and good introductory pack for beginning referees and players. One with a good concise background, lots of nifty advice and some adventures that can hooked into existing (more advanced) scenario packs. Thanks for your help! Fred Kiesche (speaking for myself, not connected to any company with ties to the 'net!) (FKiesche3@aol.com) --------------------- From: J.Ditton@vme.glasgow.ac.uk Subject: Lhankhor Mhy Heroquesting Proposed.. Message-ID: <29_Nov_93_13:49:45_A1034C@UK.AC.GLA.VME> Date: 29 Nov 93 13:49:45 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2477 Hello from Sam Phillips ----------------------- RE: Climbing and Fumbles. Don't forget that a fumble doesn't mean death. A combat fumble rarely results in death (in my experience - an enemy's critical is another matter though :-). Getting caught up in a rope, getting your foot stuck for 15mins, going the wrong way and having to re-route, stumbling apon a nest of eagles (, being crapped on by a Gull :-) etc. These are *all* fumbles but none would result in automatic death. Why not just roll again to see how severe the fumble is. A critical would mean you do something really dramatic ie fall 100 foot and get caught in a tree by your cloak or something. A fumble-fumble would be close to certain death .. but never 100% certain. RE: Oxygen, magic and the way things work. I agree that this is not a valid worry. Of *course* there is air on the air god's most holy of sites. This is similar in many respects to the arguments about how a dwarf sees in the dark. Does it matter? Do the dwarves know? I highly doubt even the God Learners knew how humans see. It can all be put down to magic in the end. And rightly so. We can make an educated guess - "magical light spirits shoot back and forth between the eyes and all the objects they percieve", "Whatever it is Yelm has lots of it and The Red goddess has some of it - but only in shades of red", "It is the *true* gift of seeing into the future", "It requires a compromise between the Orlanth and Yelm for you cannot see clearly underwater - Orlanth *is* involved" etc.. It is often unwise to try to explain these things mechanically only god learners do that - and you know what happens to them... RE: Boggles.. I have never heard of these before. I am intrigued. Are these the same as "bogey men"? ie "Be good child of the Boggles will get you?". Do they only appear in a few places and in large numbers or are they always around like a bad smell, breaking eggs and losing things etc.. RE: Catseye This sounds like a Godlearner name. Why would any Yelmalion want to associate himself with a cat. Wouldn't Hawkeye be better? RE: A FAQ database. (Frequently asked questions). Now here's a thing. Hands up all you who keep a copy of every daily. I am guilty. I have a *large* pile of printouts. If I want to look something up (and beleive me it happens a *lot*) it takes hours. Especially as "I just have to read that article again.. and that one. Oh! I'd forgotten about that".. etc In my humblest opinion, some king of FAQ is needed. Lets face it the daily has tackled all sorts of amazing and interesting topics which when needed, a month later, are to all intensive purposes lost to the aether. I propose .. (Trumpets, stage left) THE RQ ONLINE GLORANTHAN ENCYCLOPEDIA ------------------------------------- (Here is a model that could be used) Most of what appears in the daily seems to be a Question and Possible answers session. Many of the answers are already in encyclopaedic form. It wouldn't be a big step to take the answers and add them to an encyclopaedia. We could even tackle them in order. Or assign letters to individuals (ie Sandy could do all things 'P' ;-) However, I do not propose that we collect large quotes from published sources, rather that we channel speculation and odd snippets overheard in public houses into one useful source. It wouldn't require much maintanence. Each letter of the alphabet could be one file. We could either post our answers to the daily to be collected or straight to it. I don't *think* it would break copywrite. Looking back at a few recent discussions ie The Block, Wintertop, Boggles they would fit this format nicely. Being online it can also easily be changed should it be found to hold any generally agreed inacuracies. More than one answer could be given to one question leaving the reader to decide on the truth. What wouldn't be welcome (in my personal ideal model)? Anything *just made up* ie "a nice cult I wrote last night". Rules additions (unless linked to another entry ie Tides every 2d4-1 days), etc. Anything large and meaty that would be better presented to TotRM. Anything that is easy to find eg Sartar, Pavis, etc (Anything *new* about them would be very welcome esp Sartar ;-). Wherever possible, sources should be included to i) Help further reading and ii) Encourage people who have found something new to go and spend more money on RQ. However, some non-Gloranthan terms found on the daily could be written up in glossary form eg :- Tales of The Reaching Moon: (TotRM) *The* RQ fanzine. ... contact: David Hall@, MOB etc or PenDragon Pass: An unofficial rules system combining Pendragon Mechanics with a Gloranthan setting by D.Dunham, see TotRM #6. or TotRM: Abbrv. see Tales of the Reaching Moon. or Nick Brooke: Wise Oracle who speaks with the Gods. To summon see the RQ daily ;-) we could be as pretentious and pernickety as we want. We could argue for days on what are valid answers. I could be lots of fun. Would we need an Editor?.. probably. Any volunteers? I have seen similar FAQ's and (lyrics) databases etc on other lists. Could it be done with your setup Henk? (should the daily users wish it) or would it have to be sent to another site. It wouldn't have to ftp-able ie you could just "request A-F" to be mailed or similar. I have proposed, any seconders?.. Cheers! Sambo. x Not Scotland but Sartar. ps: Did my post about Vinga and/or the one about Sartar Clan Populations get through. I have a feeling they were lost in (cyber) space. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: brandon@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 25 Nov 1993, part 1 Message-ID: <9311291430.AA27150@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov> Date: 29 Nov 93 14:30:48 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2478 To those discussing whether Wintertop would be climbable without oxygen equipment or equivalent magical help: Why are you assuming that the air gets thinner as you climb higher? The entier space between Earth and Sky is Filled with Air since Umath separated the two; it's no "thicker" down on the ground than it is at he sky dome. It does get colder as you get further from Earth (presumably until you reach the midpoint between Earth and Sky, after which it gets warmer from being closer to Yelm). Remember, Glorantha is flat; Yelm rises and sets only because he has to make his daily trip into Hell; Things fall down because they naturally do, not because the Earth attracts them. The physical laws that rule this world do not all have counterparts on Glorantha, nor should they. Note that this is not to say that climbing Wintertop is easy or low-risk! The cold, lack of food sources, slippery surfaces, high winds, and extreme height of the journey make climbing the mountain a formidable and dangerous undertaking, worse than Everest by far. Remember that Wintertop is preternaturally steep, rising its 12 kilometers from a tiny base - it is more like a spire than an Earthly mountain, and ascending it involves much more climbing than walking. Brandon --------------------- From: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 29 Nov 1993, part 3 Message-ID: <01H5VSW8XJW28WW7PS@wharton.upenn.edu> Date: 29 Nov 93 04:37:23 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2479 These occasional bounced dailies that repeat who knows how much information in the daily are quite annoying. How about judicious use of Sender: and Errors-to: lines in the header so that it doesn't happen so often? -- Loren --------------------- From: markg@engrg.uwo.ca (Mark Gagnon) Subject: Receiving Divine Magic from "human sacrifice" Message-ID: <9311291506.AA22314@engrg.uwo.ca> Date: 29 Nov 93 15:06:54 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2480 I'm curious if anyone has considered the implications of sacrifice: followers of the non-chaotic deities receive spells through sacrifice of personal life force [POW]; I have read nothing indicating that chaotic and evil deities would grant divine magic through the sacrifice of a non-worshipper's life (and POW). Any comments on this idea? I would think that a chaotic or evil deity would demand that sort of sacrifice... Mark Gagnon (markg@prism.engrg.uwo.ca) University of Western Ontario ===================================================================== Ignus aurum probat, miseria fortes viros Fire tests gold; adversity strong men --------------------- From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 29 Nov 1993, part 1 Message-ID: <9311291626.AA04305@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM> Date: 29 Nov 93 18:26:38 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2481 Oh, rats... >--------------------- >From: "PTD::PTDCS2::MAILER-DAEMON@ptdcs2.intel.com"@PTD.intel.com >Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days >Message-ID: <9311290244.utk29062@PTD.intel.com> >Date: 29 Nov 93 02:44:19 GMT >X-RQ-ID: 2471 > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >421 ptdcs2 (smtp)... Deferred: Connection refused by ptdcs2 --------------------- From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) Subject: re: RQ Daily Message-ID: <9311291621.AA03921@idcube.idsoftware.com> Date: 29 Nov 93 04:21:46 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2482 Graeme Willoughby asks: >What defines Chaos? Chaos is something that originates from outside the boundaries of Glorantha, or which is partially such. >when does a given creature become chaotic and register as such on >appropriate senses and spells? If a creature is "naturally" chaotic (i.e., comes from a chaos species, such as broo, ogre, dragonsnail, etc.) then it registers as Chaotic. Possession of a chaos feature is a sure sign of chaos, but you can be chaotic without it. If you have a chaos feature, or have ever had certain chaos spells cast upon you, then you have become chaotic regardless of whether you are "naturally" chaotic. Also, if you have become a Rune level (priest, acolyte, lord) of a cult including the Chaos Rune, you are thereby Chaotic. The following spells from Gods of Glorantha will cause the recipient to become chaotic: BAGOG: Ritual of Rebirth HYKIM & MIKYH: Transform Self (only if tribal animal is chaotic) KRARSHT: none POCHARNGO: Corruption PRIMAL CHAOS: Chaos Feature RED GODDESS: none SEVEN MOTHERS: Chaos Gift THED: Rebirth of Chaos TRIOLINA: Meld Form (if a chaos creature is used) Other chaos spells cause you to register as chaotic only while the spell is in effect (actually, the chaos in the spell is what's registering, not you yourself). In general, you can't become chaotic without taking a "voluntary" step towards it. However, that step need not be very voluntary. In my campaign, I state that your mp's failure to resist Pocharngo's Corruption is prima facie evidence that you have taken that step towards chaos. Greg Stafford has at times opined that you must be actively willing to become Chaotic (but at other times has said other things and in any case hasn't run a RQ campaign for many years to the best of my knowledge, his Gloranthan interests now lying mainly in novelizations). >What makes a God Chaotic - does it have to be tied to the Chaos >Rune? Yes. Though some gods are "associated" with chaos without technically being chaotic. Such as Malia and Seven Mothers. >Why is Nysalor chaotic? He was defined as chaotic by Arkat, and everyone agrees. Even the Lunar Empire doesn't try to argue otherwise (except as sophistry designed to fool ignorant barbarians). Which deities are Illuminated? All the Lunar deities are illuminated (note that the Seven Mothers, as an artificial construct, technically has no "god" within it to be chaotic). Humakt is thought by some to be illuminated, as is Chalana Arroy and Uleria. Don't forget Arachne Solara, who devoured Kajabor. Really, it's hard to say. A god can be illuminated, yet still take a strong anti-chaos stance. Colin Watson ponders: >So the effects of Chaotic features are not magical? Likewise I >thought most healing potions (those that heal Hit Points instantly) >would count as Magic. No? Chaos magic is magic. Chaos features are ways to cheat on the RQ Rules, and are not necessarily magic. It's up to the gamemaster whether a healing potion counts as Magic for the purposes of violating the Humakti geas. If I felt mean, I'd probably say that an "instant" potion was magic, but a slower-acting potion may not be. TIME TRAVEL IN GLORANTHA: I stated that Gloranthan time travel is only possible in going to the past. Colin Watson correctly points out that we are all traveling forwards in time naturally. I was referring, of course, to big jumps in time, which are only possible by going into the Past. If your players go into the past, they are stuck there, and cannot return to the future, except by waiting. No paradoxes exist, because you can go right ahead and "change" that future, which hasn't happened yet. The Gods live in a Godtime which is the universe beyond time. In a sense, it is the universe as it would be if it were still the Godtime. They are pre-time, as it were. Things can happen to change the Godtime, whereupon the Godtime is as if it had always been that way (like the creation of the Red Moon's tower on the Godplane -- this is new, but now has always been there). [I said] >> general, our players are trained to yell out that they're casting >> Protection (or whatever) when they're behind one of their friends >> and casting a spell, so that he'll know to refrain from resisting. [John Medway notes] >Sounds like a good signal for the opposition to let the one who >dropped his shields really have it, or do you let them selectively >resist/allow spells? How does a target know the difference? The player can tell whether the spell is coming from behind him or in front of him, and can usually see the bad guy casting such a spell. He'll know which one to let through. Also, if you call to the guy by name, the enemy generally won't know which person you're talking to, unless they know all your names. But if an enemy is sitting behind you, and can cast his spell on the same strike rank, and knows your name, I would let him zap you with a resistanceless Disruption.