From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 01 Dec 1993, part 1
Message-ID:
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes)
Subject: Time travel / Prophecy
Message-ID: <199311301006.CAA10516@mail.netcom.com>
Date: 29 Nov 93 18:06:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2490
>From: graeme.lindsell@anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
>
>I wrote:
>>> - Though some people say predictive magic is impossible in Glorantha
>>>due to the effects of Time, obviously the Gods and Heroes who are
>>>outside Time can see the future with ease.
>
> which isn't what I should have said: I don't think they can see
>the future with _ease_. I agree with what Colin Watson said: that
>the gods outside of time can't really tell when their information
>is coming from. I suspect their understanding of worshippers
>as individuals is a bit vague too.
This sounds rather problematic to me. If I use divination to ask
a god where one of his worshippers is, it is standard practice to
recieve an intelligable answer. Clearly, the god is able to sort
this kind of temporal information.
>What heroes can do is encounter heroquesters from the future or past
>(as Ethilrist did in hell, I believe) and communicate with them. One
>could argue (I suspect the God Learners did) that most heroquesting
>is time travel to the past, in that the quester encounters the enviroment
>of his/her god when the god was young.
Don't know about Ethilrist's quest. Anyway, it is debateable whether
it is possible to meet other Heroquesters, when you travel outside of
Time. One interpretation is that a Heroquest is a subjective experience
of past events. And if you do meet another quester, you may percieve
him in mythic terms, and be unable to communicate information that
violates Time.
>>There's lots of predictive stuff in Glorantha -- the
>>prophecies of the Hero Wars, for instance. The important thing is
>>that these prophecies are not foreordained.
>
> I agree. A few months ago someone (I think Paul Reilly) likened
>Glorantha and the Hero Plane to a fibre bundle, with the mundane
>plane being a slice through that bundle. There are a whole lot
>of potential realities in that bundle - whilst there is only one
>mundane plane on Glorantha there are many posibilities and many
>futures on the Hero Plane.
This raises many metaphysical issues. It would seem unlikely
that a heroquester would ever return to the same reality he
left. (My understanding is that a quester changes reality,
rather than departing to a different one).
My current theory is that future events can be known, so long as
they do not violate the laws of Time. So you may know that the
Evil One is destined to be slain by a member of the royal family,
but you cannot know who, when, where or how.
This interpretation also allows for interesting uses of the Fate
rune to create curses, blessings, and prophecies.
>>Big Gloranthan Secret To Be Kept From Your Players: Time-Travel is
>>possible in Glorantha, but only one-way -- to the past. You can't go
>>back to the future again. At least, that's my opinion.
>
> I believe that you can go in both directions, but not predictably:
>the effects you have when reaching your destination could change
>the past and/or future you came from. (You can effect the past
>in Glorantha: Minarian memory removals for instance.)
In the campaign I play in, we have met a heroquester from the future,
although most of us don't know that yet. I believe that due to Time,
there are certain things that he is unable to tell us, or if he did say
them, they would sound so bizarre as to be unbelieveable. The GM has
suggested that he is the Flesh Man equivalent for the coming Hero War
catastrophy.
-steve
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 29 Nov 1993, part 3
Message-ID: <9311301134.AA06199@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 30 Nov 93 13:34:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2491
You write:
>These occasional bounced dailies that repeat who knows how much information
>in the daily are quite annoying. How about judicious use of Sender: and
>Errors-to: lines in the header so that it doesn't happen so often?
>-- Loren
Hi Loren,
You noticed my Summon(rodent) above?
My digest mailers *do* check on bounced mail,
but I forgot to make that check case-insensitive.
Fixed now.
This recent example would not improve by adding Errors-To:
as that is non-standard and an invention by Sun only (I think).
The correct method is to supply a Sender: header, which I do (I think).
If that isn't honoured by distant mailers, that's bad...
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
---------------------
From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Gorp
Message-ID:
Date: 30 Nov 93 13:22:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2492
Greg Fried here.
Graeme:
To hurt, maybe even kill the slimestone gorp, here's one idea. Find a food
the Slimestone gorp cannot resist. Seed a trail with this food. Have the
trail lead to a steeply sloping hill with very rough ground or lots of trees.
Find some way to get the gorp moving fast enough that it cannot present
itself from accelerating down the slope, ripping itself into ribbons on the
way down. The smaller parts would be easier to deal with than the whole unit.
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9311301546.AA05832@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 30 Nov 93 03:46:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2493
charles gregory fried asks (about his projected heroquest)
>So does this sound right?
Sounds good to me. The heroquest might be a little underpowered, with
crested dragonewts and trollkin as allies. They might not have enough
oomph to get the ritual going. Hence, the ritual might attract the
"real" enemies anyway This can be good -- perhaps as the ritual
begins, the trollkin can be possessed by a Dehori (manifested by the
heroquest ritual) and the dragonewt replaced by a wyrm or other
appropriate draconic character -- in other words, I suggest that the
troll priest's rulesmongering attempt to subvert the heroquest by
providing the weeniest possible opponents backfire to some degree.
>What kind of reward could the ritual opponent in such a HQ earn?
The easiest thing (and one of the more common HQ awards) is to let
the victor steal one of the loser's abilities, skills, or spells.
>What would the troll's weaknesses be?
Probably the fact that in the actual quest his side lost. This
probably means that he HAS to lose the quest in order to get his
shard of Hrelk. (It is quite a common HQ situation to be forced to
lose a quest, in order to properly complete it -- q.v. Yelmalio's
Hill of Gold quest.) Even Zurthk may not realize that the troll
priest is trying to lose -- this could be the priest's big secret.
The big danger for the priest is that he'll be seriously injured and
unable to complete his quest. So he must lose in the most
ceremonious, harmless way possible. If he loses too badly, the trolls
might be forced off the island, as Bathur's victory over Hrelk is too
strongly re-affirmed.
>How can I make this most fun for the players, while at the same time
>true to the spirit of heroquesting and RQ?
My advice is not to sweat remaining "true to the spirit". Just make
it fun for the players.
Sam Phillips asks:
>[re: Boggles] Are these the same as "bogey men"? ie "Be good, child
>or the Boggles will get you?"
Unequivocably yes. The Boggles are quite rare, and lurk only in the
"disused" corners of Glorantha nowadays, except when one happens to
wander into inhabited lands, to the chagrin and terror of all.
>[Catseye]Why would any Yelmalion want to associate himself with a
>cat? Wouldn't Hawkeye be better?
The function of the spell Catseye is to let the user see in the dark,
just as Yelmalio kept the spark of light going after the sun went
down. Hawks can't see in the dark, so Hawkeye would be a terrible
name. No doubt the spell has some clunky official "true" name such as
OH MIGHTY POWER OF YELMALIO TO PERMIT VISION IN THE GREAT DARKNESS,
but "Catseye" is the rude and crude nickname used by everyone in
preference. I imagine most Rune spells have wordier names than are
given in the RQ book.
Mark Gagnon sez:
>I have read nothing indicating that chaotic and evil deities would
>grant divine magic through the sacrifice of a non-worshipper's life
>(and POW). I would think that a chaotic or evil deity would demand
>that sort of sacrifice
At least two cults in GoG support such sacrifice -- Bagog's Ritual of
Devouring and Thed's Chaos Spawn. Other evil cults requiring same
include Thanatar, Vivamort, and the Cult of the Bloody Tusk. I
further submit that for any temple or shrine to be able to provide
Rune spells to its worshipers, proper worship services must be
performed. Hence each Holy Day (for real bad cults) or at least each
High Holy Day (for only kinda bad cults) a sacrifice must be made, or
NO ONE gets any divine magic at that temple until the next Holy Day
(assuming the proper sacrifice is available then).
re: Gloranthan Time Travel
Time Travel in Glorantha is primarily a HQ disaster -- in other
words, you've had something terrible happen to you, so you are thrown
backwards in time. *dang* It's not an exploited technology.
Graeme Willoughby asks:
>I'd like to continue two recent threads by considering the
>Slimestone Gorp. We have been dicussing the sizes of things and I'd
>like to ask if people think that a SIZ of 10,000 is reasonable for
>this monster.
As culprit behind the RQ SIZ tables, I'll hereby fess up -- the
tables get screwy at high levels, and some new Einsteinium type of
physics is needed. I made a feeble attempt at same by stating that
once each SIZ point equals a metric ton (I think at around 103 or
so), the geometric progression stops. By this scale, the super-gorp
would have a SIZ of 25 million. Which is probably way too big for
even it.
I think the best way is to think of it as a natural force, like a
mountain. I don't think that even an infinite number of Firearrows
could kill Slimestone -- once the outer 10-20 meters of its body were
charred and killed, the interior would be completely inaccessible to
further violence. It could sit there and outwait its tormentors.
Slimestone does 80 points of acid damage to those who touch it. I
suspect it may be unkillable. Maybe a Moonburn could do it.
Frederic Moll asks:
>[re Monkey Ruins] One of my player has spotted this name on the Prax
>map and wants to know more about it ? What info is available about
>it ? Is it a good place for baboon PCs ?
It is a relic of prehistory, a last vestige of the once-thriving
Golden Age civilization that was destroyed in the Gods War. Nowadays,
it is a ruin and spooky place to explore. Yes, there are baboons
there, and "normal" adventuring parties that go there must fight the
baboons, evil spirits summoned by the baboons, and the baboons'
sinister allies. If you have PC baboons in your party, they'd just be
one of the troop -- no doubt they could participate in the big
summoning ceremonies that take place there, learn Baboon magic, etc.
Graeme A Lindsell sez:
>Are you certain that it was the Closing itself that was to destroy
>Fronela?
No.
> is Brithos under the Ban? The description of what Dormal found when
>he searched for Brithos (mists and monsters) sounds similar to what
>explorers of the Ban experienced.
The similarities are not coincidental.
---------------------
From: okamoto@hpcc90.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 30 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9311301616.AA24402@hpcc90.corp.hp.com>
Date: 30 Nov 93 16:16:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2494
> From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
> Really, it's hard to say. A god can be illuminated, yet still take a
> strong anti-chaos stance.
I always felt that "Illumination" was akin to "The Force" from George Lucas's
Star Wars Saga. Being Illuminated, you can either "fall prey to the Dark
Side" and become chaotic, or devote yourself to being an example to others
and/or fighting against the "Dark Side" (i.e., become a Jedi Knight, or
someone like Arkat).
Jeff
---------------------
From: drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng)
Subject: RuneQuest-Con Update #4
Message-ID:
Date: 30 Nov 93 17:02:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2495
RuneQuest-Con Bulletin #4
=========================
It's been a while since I sent out one of these, so here's a quickie.
* Membership is up to 124, and still climbing.
* The Big Bulletin is almost ready to go out in the mail. Everyone who
has registered, contacted us, or subscribes to TotRM from David
Gadbois will receive one. I apologize for keeping you waiting on this;
it is long overdue.
* We've got a bunch of new events. A biggie is something special from
Chaosium. Full details in the mailer.
* I still have to organize what I'm going to do with all of you who've
volunteered. Again, my apologies for taking so long to do this.
For those of you who are going to GM, I'm going to do my best to make
sure you've got your adventure at least 2-3 weeks before the con.
I'll be contacting you. Your patience is appreciated.
* Home of the Bold is being cast right now. For those of you who got in
(79 lucky folks), you should expect a postcard with a very brief
description of your character 'pretty soon.' This will help with
costuming. Your character will be mailed 1-2 weeks later, with your
copy of _The Rough Guide to Boldhome_.
* We will be doing a special Tekumel mailing. A copy of the flier will
be in the big bulletin.
* It's not too late to register. We'll even be taking walk-ins, although
I don't expect too many. I would _strongly_ suggest you
pre-register. There are a good number of you who sounded like you were
certain to attend that haven't registered yet. ~You know who you are.~
More soon,
* David Cheng
drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu
313 East 85th Street, Apt 2C, New York, NY 10028
(212) 472-7752
---------------------
From: pmichaels@aol.com
Subject: Catseye
Message-ID: <9311301246.tn145634@aol.com>
Date: 30 Nov 93 17:46:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2496
Peter Michaels here.
from Sam Phillips
>X-RQ-ID: 2477
>RE: Catseye
>This sounds like a Godlearner name. Why would any Yelmalion want to
>associate himself with a cat. Wouldn't Hawkeye be better?
Quoting myself a long while back:
>The ideas expressed hereafter were developed prior to KoS and the
>Elmal revelation.
> ...
>I feel the Yinkin spell _Identify Scent_ is better suited to the >Brother
Dog cult of Balazar. In my campaign, I give the spell >_Catseye_ to Yinkin
(and so to Wind Lords), and give Yelmalio a new >runespell of _Brighteye_
instead. _Brighteye_ is much like >_Catseye_, except the target can see in
total darkness and his or her >eyes glow with an inner yellow light for the
duration of the spell. I >think this better fits Yelmalio's role as the god
of "Last Light." >After all, how could he survive the Greater Darkness if
his magic >requires his father's presence? I think this change also gives a
>better feel for why Orlanth was not hindered by the Darkness (as >long as
SOME light was left in the world), and adds to why he was so >willing to go
on the Lightbringer's Quest.
Lately, I've been thinking that perhaps there was a connection between Elmal
and Yinkin, and Elmal had access to the _Catseye_ spell, and that when the
cult switched to Yelmalio, somehow the spell remained connected to the god.
Anyone out there have thoughts on this?
Peace, Peter
---------------------
From: cjl@carmenta.se (Carl-Johan Lundell)
Subject: Effects of getting chaotic
Message-ID: <9311301727.AA07243@carmenta.se>
Date: 30 Nov 93 19:27:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2497
Hello all,
On Chaos features:
I led a group of players into Snake Pipe Hollow this weekend. Despite my heavy
emphasis on the extremely powerful chaos felt by all of them in the worm tunnel,
they ventured all the way to the Mother Maggot. They tried a Sever Spirit, a
roll of 06 was close to success (I assumed?). But since it failed, they turned
back and got affected by the chaos (transported away and 3 out of 4 got chaos
features). I gave a 50/50 chance to get either a Curse of Thed or a Chaotic
feature. Two of them got really bad curses and are surely out of play. The last
one got a spell absorbtion feature. The BIG problem is that he is a Storm Bull
initiate. What happen when he gets tainted? Will he do the "right" thing and
commit suicide or will he break the SB bonds and become a chaos follower?
I would appreciate some advice on how to continue this situation.
Regards,
Carl-Johan Lundell
Sweden
---------------------
From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: Humakti geas ...
Message-ID: <9311301800.AA24291@Sun.COM>
Date: 30 Nov 93 17:58:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2498
>From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
>>What's the meaning of Humakt Geas #10 "accept no magical healing at
>>all?"
>I think it's pretty clear. You can only heal naturally, through
>Chaotic regeneration, or via healing potions.
Agreed ... except if the potion is magical rather than natural or medicinal in
its action (difficult to judge given the prevalence of magic).
>Naturally, this sounds
>like a fairly dire Geas, and it is. My own suspicions are that the
>only Humakti that choose this Geas are those that plan to die in the
>battle, or those that are old and retired and plan to fight no more
>forever (and who want to give their son/heir a keen magic sword).
I think this is also very likely (no Humakti I have ever known has taken it).
It may also be popular with illuminated Humakti. By the way, the lottery sword
article in TotRM seemed to imply that the magic died when the geas was broken
or the Humakti died ...
>>Can his allied spirit cast it?
>Yes, but he'll have broken his geas and his sword will thenceforth
>shatter until he undergoes the appropriate repentance.
Of course an allied spirit would be highly unlikely to do so.
>>What happensn if he's unconscious and it's cast on him?
>He'll have broken his geas and his sword will thenceforth shatter
>until he undergoes the appropriate repentance. He may be angry or
>grateful at the casting, depending on whether he is pleased that his
>life was saved or upset that his geas was thus shattered.
I disagree. The key seems to be accepting the healing. If the Humakti accepts
the healing either by seeking it or not resisting it (where possible) then the
geas is broken. Of course there might be compromise positions for a GM to take
such as allowing the Humakti to DI to prevent the healing or allowing an
immediate act of repentence. I think a devout Humakti would probably strike him
or herself in the healed location with their sword (it would seem to be an
appropriate act of repentence).
THom
---------------------
From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: Climbing
Message-ID: <9311301827.AA00782@Sun.COM>
Date: 30 Nov 93 18:26:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2499
>From: allan@tcrystal.gla.ac.uk (Allan Henderson)
>One thing about these clibing rolls is that the majority of any ascent is
>actually walking. I have been to the summit of a great many Scottish mountains
>but have climbed on surprisingly few, and can only think of one where
>climbing is essential. So if players are making an ascent then only have the
>occasional set of climbing rolls.
I've had a similar experience with walking in the Alps in Summer. The big
factors are good weather and knowing a good route. If these were in your favour
I would suggest you'd go several thousand feet up before needing a climb roll.
Many apparently difficult sections on good routes are actually fairly easy if
you go slowly, have good boots and hold tight with both hands. On these kinds
of climbs the dangers come from slipping on loose rocks rather than falling. If
one party member has good climbing skill and a rope you can cope with quite
tricky situations. The trouble starts when you come to places you can't even
imagine climbing up on your hands and knees ...
A lot of people mentioned the poor climbing technology of Glorantha ... I'm not
convinced it is as crucial as you think when you bear in mind the magical
technology of Glorantha:
Flight
Teleport
Mobility (for the boring, flat bits or to combine with jumping)
Glue (imaginative uses for this)
Healing (probably the most uiseful of all)
Bladesharp (for icepicks etc.)
Endurance
Farsee (for finding easier routes)
Strength
Coordination
Cloud Clear
Silence (to prevent avalanches ;-) ?)
These are off the top of my head. Not to mention divine intervention if you are
really in trouble. Healing, in particular, would make a long extended climb
much less risky.
Thom