From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
Organization: Lankhor Mhy and Associates
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 08 Dec 1993, part 1
Message-ID:
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes)
Subject: Time, Nysalor
Message-ID: <199312071005.CAA17517@mail.netcom.com>
Date: 6 Dec 93 18:05:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2576
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
>Anyway, how do you know that Divination to Nysalor won't work, unless you try?
I can't find my Cults of Terror, but I remember that it was quite
clear that Nysalor couldn't be contacted thru ordinary rituals, and
did not provide Rune magic. Checking the new write-up in Dorastor,
Chaosium has decided to be a bit more vague, suggesting that some
believe the god is still worshipped in secret, although most believe
the god was destroyed.
-steve
---------------------
From: ngl28@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: "GERMAN RQ CON ANNOUNCEMENT
Message-ID: <5637*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 7 Dec 93 13:27:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2577
Deutsche RuneQuest-Gesellschaft e.V announces:
RuneQuest CON '94
The German RuneQuest-Society invites to the German RuneQuest convention '94
in Herdecke (that's right south of Dortmund, or about 60 km east of
Duesseldorf or Cologne). It will take place on Pentecost, 21st to 23rd of
May, in the Jugendbildungsstaette Wittbraeucke.
Events so far:
- Cthulhu life roleplaying game
- "Der Grosse Troll" (the big troll): a quiz for real RQ and Glorantha
experts. (In German, I don't know whether there will be an English language
version. I'll ask.)
- lectures and discussions
- game rounds for RuneQuest, Cthulhu etc.
If YOU have other ideas or want to offer additional events, note on your
participation form (which I can forward to people who email me) or email me
directly.
Participation fee:
73.- DM for adults
62.- DM for pupils, students etc. (with a copy of a document that proves
this)
Included will be several meals:
Saturday: Tea/coffee in the afternoon
Sunday: Breakfast, Lunch, Tea (no supper)
Monday: Breakfast, Lunch
We offer no supper because prices would increase by 14.- DM. There will be
possibilities to dine out of house, I am told.
There will be 42 beds, but a (not too high number) might get a place to
sleep with our local members. Those who book first will get a place in the
house. This offer is only valid if the places inside the house are booked
out. There will be a reduced participation fee if this happens.
To participate, write directly to
Lars Thoms
Haferkamp 37
58039 Hagen
last registration date is the 14th of February, 1994.
Questions either by surface mail to Lars, or via email to
joe@sartar.toppoint.de
Con language will be German, but enough of us speak sufficient English to
play and discuss RQ etc. in English. If we have enough registrations from
abroad, we'll be able to organize English language events. Guest hosted
game-rounds and events are welcome, too.
I'll try and get my Dragon Pass extension maps finished by then, and give
some of the areas test runs. We'll also try to get a combined Dragon Pass/
Nomad Gods session going.
I'll host a workshop concerning Free INT magazine and its future development.
I might also offer the opportunity to try a modern sports bow, to
demonstrate some of the bugs in the rules for archery, if the weather ad
terrain allow so.
Additional meetings on a private base might be arranged beforehand. Are
there similar plans for Convulsion '94?
I'll keep you informed about the developments.
Joerg Baumgartner
Please reply to joe@sartar.toppoint.de, since this account is buggy - see
Tuesday's daily p.1. :-(
---------------------
From: ngl28@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: CARMANIA
Message-ID: <5646*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 7 Dec 93 13:56:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2578
Carmania questions:
These were similar to the ones I asked when researching the Aeolian
Church.
Invisible Orlanth:
Genertela Book tells us it started as a spirit cult which was led by one of
the Taloned Countess' sons, a half brother to the leading cleric of the
Carmanian heresy, Brostakang Archmoor. I seem to remember that they tell a
tale how Orlanth conquered the Invisible God.
I was told that they were not just another "Stygian" heresy.
The Carmanian heresy write-up was in the RQ4 sorcery draft 1.0, and (as far
as I remember) disputed by some.
Carmanian military (John Medway does his finals?):
Nick proposed heavy cavalry in his summary of the Lunar troops. The (in
Dragon Pass terms surprisingly weak, 4-3-5-X) Queen's Regiment sponsored by
Count Alehandro would be heavy lancers in full chain mail and better.
Syranthir Forefront was expelled by the Loskalmi God Learners around 783.
At that time the Loskalmi and Seshnegi ought to have had reinforced
chainmail available.
Being cut off the Nidan and Seshelan iron supplies, and being a military
expedition only, I don't think the Carmanians were overly inventive WRT
armour design. Early crusaders' chivalry, or if you want to think in
classical comparisons, 6th to 8th century Byzantine Clibanarii or (earlier)
Parthians. Shield designs ought to show coats of arms, among which dragon-
slaying motifs might be popular (see Dorastor, Sir Javinu).
Their foot auxiliary could get tabards with their feudal overlords' coats
of arms, little shield art.
Yara Aranis worshippers:
Naked madmen? Nah, too ineffective for horse-eaters. Halberdiers and
pikemen were the classical response to enemy cavalry, or effective missile
troops like the British longbow-wielding yeomen. Plus pioneers to dig
trenches, install spaniard riders, and okay, light-armed mobile troops to
hamstring the mounts. With sickles, probably. Bolas or lassos would be
sneaky, too.
BTW: Does Yara Aranis offer some Runespell of Extra Arms?
Sylilings: Didn't Nick propose them to be the source for the Peltasts? Not
being Pelorians by birth, I imagine them to be more Pelorian than the
natives, to prove they are not barbarians. Think of late Roman Britain.
Make them standard Lunar legionnaires. Then toss in some barbarian throwback,
maybe horned helmets, to make them look like the rustics playing civilized
they are.
What are Hwarin Dalthippa's insignia, BTW? They ought to be very popular
among Syliling military.
Naked Madmen again: Danfive Xaron fanatics?
Joerg Baumgartner
ngl28@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: The thread that folded itself
Message-ID: <9312071459.AA12969@condor>
Date: 7 Dec 93 14:59:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2579
____
Henk (on The Man Who Folded Himself):
>It made the whole concept of time travel consistant just
>by imposing this one simple rule: If you change the past,
>you spawn a new thread in history, branching off from the
>point in time where the change was introduced.
Does the traveller create the new thread; or is it already there & he
just "chooses" to travel down it? I'd say the latter was more likely, in
which case we can imagine that there would be an infinite number of such
branches. Curiously, such a tree, with an infinite number of one-dimensional
branches would fill out a two-dimensional space (or time;).
>Paradox? What paradox? The two realities co-exist, although
>the time traveller will not be able to return to that
>reality he came from.
It seems sensible because the system stays deterministic.
Normally we assume that we are restricted to moving "forwards" in time.
The model you describe above says we can move forwards or backwards in
time but we're restricted to moving upwards (in a second temporal dimension)
never downwards.
ie. so the past we travel to when we move backwards is not the same past that
we came from when we were moving forwards originally.
It frees up movement in the first temporal dimension because it adds the
restriction of one-way travel in the second temporal dimension. The flow
of events seems more complicated but it's still deterministic. You can't
change the future with this system; all possible futures are already mapped
out; you just pick one by your actions (and I'd question whether this
involves a free-choice).
>And indeed do I see a parallel with heroquesting.
>If we take the model of the bundle of fibers, a
>time traveler will travel back along the fiber he
>currently is on, making a change which results in
>that particular fiber splitting. He then travels
>back to the future along that new fiber to his
>era of origin, which may or may be not recognisable.
At the moment I'm more of the opinion that the HeroQuester *really*
changes the past/present/future. I think each point in Gloranthan time
has its own individual past and future independent from every other
point in time. Usually today's past and tomorrow's past will be
more or less the same (except for the extra day); but if some major
HeroQuesting occurs then tomorrow's past can be genuinely altered to
be radically different from today's past.
The apparent continuity of events from second to second, day to day, year
to year (which gives the impression of travelling from the past into the
future) is, in fact, a grande illusion. The Gods required this (apparent)
order to fend off Chaos. Such is the nature of Time.
>Well, we all agree :-) that time travel is not possible
>in Glorantha
That's what I've been arguing all along.
(Hang about. Has someone been messing with my past? ;-)
> so I will not continue this thread.
It was fun while it lasted.
___
CW.
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9312071942.AA18015@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 7 Dec 93 07:42:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2580
Steven Barnes asks:
>What is the "Carmanian Heresey of Malkionism," which apparently
>everyone there practices?
It's complex, but basically boils down to a cynical acceptance of
cult-worship alongside Invisible God worship. The cult-worshipers are
classified into castes according to their cult. For instance. Humakti
(the Carmanian war cult) are considered members of the Knight caste.
Lodril and Dendara worshipers are considered Farmers.
>What is the Cult of the Invisible Orlanth, and what benefits are
>derived from its worship? (I assume it is some kind of sorcerorous
>worship of Orlanth)
It is the Aeolian Heresy in which Orlanth is confused with the
Invisible God. Saint Chalana Arroy, Saint Issaries, Saint Flesh Man,
Saint Ginna Jar, Saint Eurmal, and Saint Lhankor Mhy are part of the
worship. Orlanth's cult is divided into four parts: Orlanth the
Farmer (=Ernalda), Orlanth the Knight (=Adventurous), Orlanth the
Wizard (=Thunderous), and Orlanth the King (=Rex). Orlanth's spells
are crudely mimicked by wizardly equivalents.
>What benefits are derived from Invisible God worship? My assumption
>is that "miracles" occasionally happen for the faithful.
You get to go to Solace when you die instead of remaining as a lost
soul, you get Divine Intervention, you (or at least someone in your
culture) gets just about the full gamut of sorcery (except, of
course, Tap, unless you belong to one of the less-acceptable
Invisible God heresies). You also get to participate in Saint
worship. In worshiping saints, you sacrifice permanent POW over the
course of days or years. When you've sacrificed enough, the saint
becomes your patron, and you can call on him for a miracle at will
(the miracle costs 1 POW, gone forever, but is instant, and acts
before any other type of magic). An example of a Saint would be
Gerlant Flamesword, who costs 3 POW to obtain as a patron, and makes
your sword flame for the next day and night when invoked. Another is
Paslac, who costs 6 POW (I think) to become your patron, and (unless
I misremember) increases your brilliance by (in game terms) making
sure that you automatically succeed on all the next experience,
Research or Training skill rolls you attempt over the next week.
>Western society has four castes: Farmer, Knight, Noble, and Wizard.
>Where do the priests of the Invisible God fit in? Is this one of
>the duties of a powerful sorceror, or is it a separate profession?
Wizards act as priests for most groups. The Hrestoli, however, permit
Nobles to act as high priests in big ceremonies (after all, the
Hrestoli Nobles are also Wizards).
Sam x. sez:
> I remembered that someone(s) connected to RQ had written one of the
>d6 games. I *thought* it was Star Wars... One of us do have a copy
>of Ghostbusters somewhere.I suppose they *could* have thought of it
>themselves - I did!
Except they'd already published Ghostbusters, using the same system.
I felt your job description for Orlanthi shamans was right on the
button. Good show.
Graeme Willoughby gibbers:
>I was reading Dragon(TM) the other day and who did I see reviewing
>some games there but Sandy - come on Sandy, admit you;re a closet
>D&D(TM) freak ("OK - so I do a little Ranger now and then - so what,
>I can handle it")
Wait till you see the big D&D release for next summer, with my name
on part of it. Then you'll no doubt feel well and truly betrayed :}
(face with sheepish smile).
>Can anyone tell me the sories of Orlanth's weapons - all I know is
>what is in the RoC write up of Orlanth?
What is RoC? I can't give you a full version now but here's a brief:
Shield of Earth -- borrowed from Babeester Gor via Ernalda by
"helping" the Earth (and proving himself ruled by his wife)
Cloak of Mist -- Orlanth seduced the female mist spirit (whose name I
forget) to obtain this treasure. She's still friendly to him.
Lightning Spear -- the captive Lightning Boy (as per Nomad Gods) who
was captured from the Sky Gods and adopted by the Storm Gods.
Boots of Darkness -- stolen from Kyger Litor in the Great Darkness.
>[how] about the Yelmalian Hill of Gold quest.
In the Godtime, Yelmalio (foremost of the "spark" gods left to light
the darkness during the Sun's absence) climbed the Hill of Gold to
greet the Sun. First he met Orlanth, who wounded him and stole his
armor and weapons. Then he met Zorak Zoran, who shattered his limbs
and crippled him (stole his Heat nature). Then he met Inora, who
froze his broken body solid under a mass of ice and left him there.
Yet he endured. Finally pulling himself out from under the ice, he
encountered a horde of chaos parasites that had nourished themselves
on his blood, growing strong and large. Battling off the chaos horde,
he at last made it to the top of the mountain, and there he greeted
the Sun on his return. Symbolically, Yelmalio endured the worst the
world could throw at him, yet he survived. Light can never be fully
extinguished by the forces of evil.
As a heroquest, the Yelmalion must go through five stations: Orlanth,
Zorak Zoran, Inora, Chaos parasites, and finally Greeting the Sun
(the last is actually just receiving the award). As you progress up
the hill (you must make the journey in a single night, so as to meet
the Sun when you get to the top), you are ambushed by an Orlanth
heroquester first, who takes your golden armor and weapons (which you
must be wearing to take this quest). Then, unarmed and unarmored, you
battle a Zorak Zoran Death Lord (typically losing badly) who rips out
your liver and eats it. Etc. It just gets worse and worse. If the
chaos parasites win, you are destroyed forever.
Two benefits are available on this quest. First, you can search for
the magic droplets of Yelmalio's blood laying around on the hill in
crystal form (you get to search for them just before each station of
the quest). Second, if you actually complete the entire quest, you
become immortal. Nothing can kill you any more. Of course, they can
reduce you to 0 HP, at which point you're unconscious. And if they
chop off your head and carry it far away from your body the fact that
you continue to survive is sort of a moot point.
Most Hill of Gold questers don't even attempt the whole quest, but
instead just get a set of golden arms 'n armor and go to the hill to
seek Yelmalio's blood. Eventually a Wind Lord ambushes 'em, defeats
'em, and takes their armor, whereupon the Light Son (or Light Priest)
aborts the quest and goes home, having effectively exchanged a suit
of gold armor for one or more magic crystals.
Slimestone questions:
>1) regarding thousands of spirits attacking it - how do you get
>thousands of spirits to do what you want?
By using hundreds of shamans?
>3) I'd like to agree with Geoff Gunnar - I'm not sure why it has
>80pt acid
To inflict the players with awe and terror.
> - I'm not sure why it's got CON in the hundereds either - what does
>such a huge CON mean - I'm sure it's never going to catch a cold!
It means it gets a buttload of hit points, is rendered effectively
invulnerable to CON-affecting attacks (it takes a lot more failed
Sever Spirits to kill it, frex), and it lets it regenerate from
damage much faster.
>What is an "acid" in Glorantha anyway?
It is a destructive nonflammable liquid. The two classic cases of
acid in Gloranthan mythology are the Baths of Nelat, which are a form
of purification (but if too much of you is impure, you're destroyed),
and the acid of chaos, which is a manifestation of how chaos
dissolves the universe's natural structure.
---------------------
From: carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Carmanians, Humakti, and a Brithini in a pear tree
Message-ID: <199312071950.AA24088@panix.com>
Date: 7 Dec 93 09:50:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2581
akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) writes:
>I'm thinking about basing a campaign in Carmania, and naturally,
>I've stumbled across the near total lack of decent information on
>the Lunars. They don't even provide a complete cult writeup for
>the Seven Mothers any more... So, my main questions are:
>What is the "Carmanian Heresey of Malkionism," which apparently
>everyone there practices?
It's related to the Arkati Heresy -- the Carmanians worship
pagan gods in addition to the Invisible God. They tend to worship
associated dualistic pairs (light/dark). Their society is
otherwise like that of the Rokari with fixed castes and no upward
mobility.
>What benefits are derived from Invisible God worship? My assumption
>is that "miracles" occasionally happen for the faithful.
Not in recorded history. The Invisible God is *invisible*
precisely because He never intervenes.
>Western society has four castes: Farmer, Knight, Noble, and Wizard.
>Where do the priests of the Invisible God fit in? Is this one of
>the duties of a powerful sorceror, or is it a separate profession?
Wizards are also priests.
T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley) writes:
[about Humakti swords and their breaking at funerals]
>This worried me too. However, most Humakti have at least two swords
>(a show sword and a working sword). My Sword of Humakt has maybe a
>dozen or more (she is averse to leaving the swords of vanquished foes
>to rust or selling them for profit). Her iron broadsword would go
>back to the temple armoury and her bronze greatsword would be broken
>over her grave.
A Humakti, at least in games I've played in or run, has one
sword which is "my sword", that person's primary weapon and the
one that glows supernaturally clean and perfect. A true Humakti
would hardly enchant any sword other than "his sword".
Remember that Humakti worship death and endings -- seeing something
fine and wonderful destroyed is their *religious duty*, not something
they'd try to avoid.
Some advice based on the last session of Oliver's game: even if
you're a powerful heroquester, don't pick fights with Brithini
soldiers.
--Carl
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Copyrights again
Message-ID:
Date: 7 Dec 93 20:26:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2582
John Medway in X-RQ-ID: 2553
>Subject: Latest Lhankor Mhy Mission
>At the same time, Greg's started caring about copyright infringements.
>Though he did not know what specifically what materials were involved in
>the collection distributed by Adam "What's 'Copyright' Mean?" Reynolds, he
>seemed to take a very dim view of it. He is obliged to either defend or
>forgoe his copyrights. If we are to do more than merely index existing
>publications, I would think that we would *have* to get his approval, and
>should, anyway.
I take it that as long as the project stays private, no copyright is
infringed. When there will be results for possible distribution, Greg
Stafford will be the first to be asked, of course.
[several systems I never heard about before deleted]
As I said before, I'll participate in the contents' editing. With my
oldtimer system (Atari ST), to ask for the ultimate tool would be too
much, I fear.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes)
Subject: Nysalor correction
Message-ID: <199312072155.NAA13750@mail.netcom.com>
Date: 7 Dec 93 05:55:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2583
Having found my Cults of Terror, I realize I was a bit off.
The only relevant quote I found was under "Associated Cults":
"Since Nysalor is now only a shadow on the Spirit Plane, his
initiates neither get nor receive spells and skills from
associated cults without joining those cults"
The cult write up also states that Nysalor has no Rune Lords
or Priests, making Divination dificult. I'm not sure that a
Divination to Nysalor would be especially usefull though. He
would probably answer your questions with more questions.
-steve
---------------------
From: R1VOLZ@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU
Subject: Yelorna, generic supplements, etc.
Message-ID: <01H67ER90UC29OHX1V@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Date: 7 Dec 93 13:01:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2584
First off, I would like to thank all the people who sent me the info on
Yelorna. If I can find a copy of Big Rubble and convert Yelorna to RQ3,
I may send it in, trusting there's no problem with copyrights.
Which brings me to my question. What is Avalon Hill's policy with regards
to generic, non-Gloranthan RQ3 material? I've noticed that most of the
non-Gloranthan material published is nowhere near the high quality of the
Gloranthan products. The only exception, Griffin Island, is based on a
Gloranthan campaign supplement from RQ2.
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Roland M. Volz | Illegitimi Non Carborundum |
| (R1VOLZ@VAXA.STEVENS-TECH.EDU) | - Never let the bastards get you down.|
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+