Bell Digest v931214p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
Organization: Lankhor Mhy and Associates
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 14 Dec 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk

X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


From: (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <>
Date: 13 Dec 93 07:44:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2629

Steve Gilham points out:
>If [the Invisible God's] worship provides no standard Divine Magic,  
>and the worshippers are sorcerers, not priests, there is no obvious 

>reason why DI should become available.
I guess I can see why you reasoned this way. I had felt that DI was  
an attribute of Godhood, not Divine Magic. I can see why a campaign  
might want to deny DI to Malkioni, but I certainly permitted it. 

By the way, the Invisible God's magic users are technically termed  
Wizards, not Sorcerers. "Sorcerer" is usually a term of opprobrium in  
Glorantha, while "Wizard" implies beneficence (at least to the  
Malkioni). Note that the Brithini magicians are definitely Sorcerers.

Steve Barnes adds:
>if Malkoni get DI, do they have a form of Divination?
Certain Saints provide fortunetelling-like powers, and I suppose  
there's probably a College of Magic that teaches a Divination-like  
spell. And of course, the wizards can summon demons from the vasty  
dark to ask 'em questions. 

Joe Lannom requests:
>What I'm most curious about are the [Praxian] oases... most of them  

>I've described as being your typical scrub/arid "truck" stop.  Lots  

>of people passing through, but not many who live there, hence no  
>real structures.  Can anyone give me some information on them like  
>their  history, why they're named what they are, any cult  
>affiliations that are specific to certain oasis (I know they're all  
>holy to Eirithra).
Okay, essay time. 

In Prax & the Wastes, there are really two types of Oases, though  
these are not distinguished (much) on the old Nomad Gods map. Some of  
these sites are true oases, while others are ruins, remnants of the  
Godtime. You can generally tell by looking at the name or other  
hints. I don't have time to go into each individual site right now,  
except to mention that Ex, the Monkey Ruins, and the dead place ruins  
are just ruins, while Horngate (frex) has a permanent human  

The Ruins are each very different from one another, but all pretty  
much share the same mythic origin (once-civilized remnants). Baboons  
now haunt the Monkey Ruins. Sog's Ruins are a God Learner remnant  
from when the coast was further inland. It is now badly infested with  
broos and worse. Ex is mostly underground (it was a city in the  
Godtime, and when the Block came bouncing over the world to slam into  
the Devil, it bounced atop Ex, leaving the city flattened and all its  
people dead. Other ruins have other weird histories and inhabitants.  
Most ruins have a water supply and green plant population, because  
the former city had originally been built in such a place. Ex is one  
of the few exceptions to this general rule, and has nothing really to  
offer anyone except for hungry undead and the faint possibility of  
finding a Golden Age artifact. 

The Wastes don't really have Ruins, unless you count the special  
places in the Tunneled Hills or Krjalki Bog. But as you wander the  
Wastes, you might find oases.

The Oases all have different mythic origins, but are quite similar  
once you get there. They generally have a small cluster of buildings,  
a permanent source of water and, depending on the amount of water  
available, farmland or at least skullbush trees. Sometimes even date  
palms if you're close enough to the coast. 

It is rare to find an oasis without some nomad group in control.  
Thus, when you show up there'll be Impala bucks, or a High Llama  
family band, or (if you're unlucky) a herd of Morocanth with their  
chained slave-things. The nomads may stay a season, or a year.  
Eventually they move on (or are moved on by a stronger group), but  
even if they leave of their own accord, they are soon replaced. 

The oases each have a permanent human population who live in the  
houses, tend the skullbushes, palms, and farms. These Oasis Folk are  
treated as slaves by the nomads. Racially, they are quite  
generalized. The God Learners claimed that the Oasis Folk descended  
from Genert's Golden Age people, but that centuries of cross-breeding  
with the nomads has produced the present batch. They are certainly a  
spiritless lot, willing to take all the abuse the nomads can shower  
down. Any youth or maid showing backbone is soon killed, adopted by a  
nomad clan (rare but not unheard-of), or runs away to become an  
adventurer (if he or she is near enough to Pavis or some other  
out-of-nomad-country site). Most such kids have a high percentage of  
true nomad blood in them. 

Though the Oasis Folk are slaves, they are treated as publicly-owned  
slaves, rarely murdered, and hardly ever taken away from their oasis,  
even by the Morocanth. They are too useful as horticulturalists and  
in other tasks, such as keeping the water supply unfouled,  
maintaining the buildings (which the nomads often appropriate), and  
further stuff too lowly for an animal rider to contemplate.

The child of an Oasis Folk woman and a nomad man is considered an  
Oasis Folk. It's rare that the nomad ever sees his child anyway. The  
child of a nomad woman and an Oasis man is considered a nomad, with  
rank similar to that of her mother. The latter is an uncommon  
occurrence, though. 

The nomads take all the profit from the oases, and while trade often  
takes place at these sites, it is always between nomad groups. The  
Oasis Folk are considered part of the terrain, but are left enough of  
the harvest to survive, and sometimes even prosper. The nomads give  
the Oasis Folk nothing in return except perhaps protection against  
chaos, if the monsters show up while the nomads happen to be about. 

Jeorg Baumgartner sez:
>So in occupied Heortland the Aeolians may continue worshipping 

>Orlanth the Saviour? Or is this just the Lunar policy in Carmania?
 This is just the policy in Carmania. Heortland is newly-occupied, a  
hotbed of dissent, and in no way comparable to Carmania. 

>Solace: the troll deity of Solace is Xiola Umbar. How do trollish  
>Arkati interpret her role vs the Invisible God?
I assume you mean Stygian Heretics. True Arkati are a different  
kettle of fish altogether and are not in fact a cult at all, but more  
a secret society. More on that in a later posting. 

I believe Stygian Heretics subdivide the Invisible God up into a  
number of different pieces, assigning each piece to a different god.  
Don't confuse the Malkioni jargon of Solace (in which Solace =  
Heaven, really) with the troll talk of Xiola Umbar's Solace (in which  
Solace = comfort and sympathy). 

Geoff Gunner whines:
>That brings up a point that's always bugged me - elementals.  But  
>the RQ cosmology makes no provision for the elemental planes - apart  
>from the elementals, they're never referenced.
RQ cosmology doesn't really have elemental "planes". But neither did  
ancient Greece. There are obviously areas that one element dominates  
(the Sky, the Underworld, the Ocean, the Middle Air, etc.) and  
elementals are no doubt common here. 

The situation is that, IMO, the various elementals of RQ aren't  
related at all. It's just that there exist mindless creatures of  
Darkness, Fire, and Earth, and so we classify them together. There's  
a whole scale of Darkness spirits, ranging from the crudest Shade on  
up to Kyger Litor. The Dehori are examples of more advanced beings,  
but on the crudest level, they're just intelligent shades with spells  
and sometimes other powers. The differences between the various  
Darkness spirits is only one of degree, and the same holds for other  
elemental entities. 

Gorp as a chaos elemental has appeal. No doubt it is only the  
elemental form of the Great Gorp portion of primal chaos. The several  
other types of chaos probably have different representatives for  
their "elemental" type, though these may not be common on the mundane  
plane. The Thed Chaos Spawn spell might be an example of a Void  

Dave Pearton asks:
>1)  What are Slarges?  I've heard references to them as bitter
>enemies of the Dorradi, but I've never seen a description of
>them, their society or their capabilities.

Their stats are described in Creatures of Glorantha, authored by a  
brilliant underpaid Gloranthan scholar. There's a few notes on their  
culture there, but here are a few more for good measure. The Slarges  
are a sort of reptile-men which come in two sizes, Great Slarges and  
Lesser Slarges. The two types alternate generations (i.e., the  
children of Lesser Slarges are Great Slarges). 

Great Slarges are individualists, each seeking to better itself or  
its race in its own special way. One might have as its life goal the  
interbreeding of triceratops with slarges, while another might have  
chosen to destroy all humans south of the Ermag River. Lesser Slarges  
go in packs and are more magical, less individual, and more  

Slarges forge metal (no one knows how), but use a special type of  
metal known to the Tarien Doraddi only as slarge-metal. It hurts for  
a human to touch slarge metal with his bare skin, not as bad as iron  
vs. elves, but bad enough. Slarges herd dinosaurs, or hunt them, and  
have no cities (maybe far to the west?). 

>2) Are the elves and humans in Pamaltela all enemies?  Or are
>there some societies that get along with them?

No. The Doraddi are enemies (which doesn't mean they kill 'em on  
sight, the Doraddi being basically nice folk), but this is not the  
case elsewhere in Pamaltela. In Umathela, the humans along the coast  
(mostly Malkioni) are neutral to the elves, but in the interior  
(mostly Theyalan) are quite friendly, sometimes even subservient. In  
Mirelos and Onlaks the native humans must get along with the elves,  
and many of the natives are forest-living pygmies anyway. 

The Elamle peninsula is a model of harmony and equality. Both humans  
and elves do well there. The Onlaks peninsula, alas, is a site of  
continual war between the species, and open hostility is the only  

>3) Getting there.  I've always wanted to know more about the
>Vadeli?  Why are they universally hated?  They are atheist like
>the Brithini and I seem to remember that they are also immortal
>- what are the differences/similarities?
In ancient days, the Vadeli were traditional enemies of the Brithini.  
The Brithini eventually won most of the wars, and were spread far and  
wide, so their vile tales of the Vadeli duplicity were generally  
accepted. When the Opening occurred, the Vadeli took immediate  
advantage of it, sailed everywhere, claimed they were gods, and took  
tribute until the fraud was discovered and they were ousted, but they  
still have bases along the Pamaltelan coast. But they're not loved,  
that's for sure. 

The ancient Vadeli came in three varieties: Brown, Red, and Blue.  
(Note: Zzabur's Blue Book is bound in Blue Vadeli skin. Think about  
it.) By the Dawn, the Red and Blue had been wiped out. At the end of  
the Closing, islands south of Brithos were discovered that had some  
Red Vadeli on them. The Vadeli claim that the Blues will return  
someday soon. 

The Brown Vadeli were the Farmer caste. The Red are the Warrior  
caste. The Blue are the Ruler caste. All three can use whatever  
sorcery they like, and have many special spells appropriate to caste.  
Some think that the reason the Brithini hate them so is because of  
the obvious advantages of the Vadeli system as compared to their own. 

Colin Watson sez: 

>Are the Spirit Plane and the Heroplane/Godplane actually the same  
>plane? I thought otherwise.

No, they're not the same plane, though the two meld into each other  
at many points. Nysalor can be met on the Heroplane, which is where  
the Red Goddess met 'im. In loose usage, the Spirit plane is  
sometimes thought of as part of the Heroplane, because it's somewhere  
that normal folks don't go. 


Subject: subscribe
Message-ID: <9312131015.AA16470@Sun.COM>
Date: 13 Dec 93 10:13:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2622

Subj:	* Unsubscribed Graeme Willoughby

Via: UK.AC.IMPERIAL; Sun, 12 Dec 93   3:51 GMT
Received: from Sun.COM by with SMTP (PP) 
          id <>; Sun, 12 Dec 1993 03:52:34 +0000
Received: from snail.Sun.COM (snail.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) 
          id AA00830; Sat, 11 Dec 93 19:52:19 PST
Received: from Holland.Sun.COM (isunnl) by snail.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) 
          id AA22156; Sat, 11 Dec 93 11:14:07 PST
Received: from yelm.Holland.Sun.COM by Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1e) 
          id AA15748; Sat, 11 Dec 93 20:14:05 +0100
Received: by yelm.Holland.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA02177;
          Sat, 11 Dec 93 20:14:29 +0100
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 93 20:14:29 +0100
Message-Id: <9312111914.AA02177@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
To: (Graeme Willoughby)
From: RuneQuest-ReQuest@COM.Sun.Holland.Glorantha (RuneQuest Digest Editor)
Subject: * Unsubscribed Graeme Willoughby
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 576
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@COM.Sun.Holland

    Your subscription to the RuneQuest list was cancelled.

    To Resubscribe send mail to RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
    with the line


    in the subject line or body.  (You can in fact resubscribe by including
    this message in a reply.)

    You can request a subscription to the less frequent Digest
    by sending 

    SUBSCRIBE digest address full name

    to RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM

    But be warned that the Digest does appear rather erratically...


From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Doom
Message-ID: <9312131135.AA03570@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 13 Dec 93 13:35:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2623

This is not related to RQ or Glorantha
in anyway, which is exactly why I post this, as
some people asked what the project DOOM!
was that Sandy kept referring to.  

Please keep followup out of this list.

This announcement just appeared in the 

    { Since this game has been eagerly awaited, I've decided to go ahead and
    post it. There are 49 total parts. I will post 20 today, 20 tomorrow, and
    10 on Sunday. See for a list of ftp sites if
    you are too impatient. -Doc}

    DOOM is a fast-moving virtual reality game
    in which you are plunged into a brutal 3-D
    world.  To escape alive, you must outfight
    legions of grisly fiends and solve DOOM's 
    lethal puzzles.  You play a space marine 
    equipped with a variety of weapons and 
    technological artifacts, but in the end it
    comes down to who's tougher: you or them.
    Note:DOOM portrays graphic violence and 
    may not be suitable for younger children
      386 or better, VGA, 4 MB ram     DISK1/1

I guess it's not quite my type of game, but then
again my 386/20 2M notebook doesn't really measure
up to the specs.

Henk	|	Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[]	|	My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"


Subject: Prax
Message-ID: <>
Date: 13 Dec 93 15:32:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2624

Peter Michaels here.

When Joe Lannom asked for more info relating to Praxian history and place
names, I remembered something I wrote up about the Basmoli.  I originally
came up with the basic myth back in the Nomad Gods/RQ2 days, and have updated
it a bit, following a sort of "who we are and where we came from" outline and
giving it a more oral story feel.  I know I'll probably be gregged on some of
this (particurlarly the Orani stuff, as I had NO info on who he is/was), but
here it is...
Who We Are   
(from a Basmoli warrior) 
 In the beginning Basmol lived far away from here.  He was the child of his
mother Mikyh, daughter of Yanmorla, and his father Yelm, son of Cronisper. 
He was chosen to be chieftain of all the animals in the world.  After his
father was killed, Basmol kept the world alive by separating the weak and
dying from the strong and healthy.  This was how Basmol fought the Bad Ones,
by killing those who could not be healed.  This is who Basmol was.  The
chieftain who kills the sick to keep the world strong.    
   Basmol heard a great cry from far away.  It was Eiritha Earth-daughter,
the herd mother, who was crying "The Bad Ones hurt me and I am dying!  P
lease, come end my pain!"  Basmol knew that he must go and help her.
 Eiritha was asking to die, and said, "You must be careful, for I have many
family members here.  My sisters will fail to heal me.   My husband,
brothers, and children will fight to keep you from me.  You must be careful,
for there are many
 Bad Ones here."
 Basmol said "I do not fear," and he gathered up many of his children and
came here to this place, now called Prax.  This is who we were.  The dutiful
children who followed our fa
 Orani Earthbrother was the first person to fight Basmol in Prax.  Basmol
slew him in the place now called Orani's Mistake*.  Orani's mistake was in
thinking that stopping Basmol was a good thing.  He was wrong.  This is who
Orani was.  The Earthbrother who made a bad mistake and was slain by Basmol.
 While Orani and Basmol fought, Tada Earthson had his people bury Eiritha
alive.  Trapped beneath the earth, Eiritha was unable to send her scent of
fear or her cries of pain to Basmol.  This is wh
o Tada was.  The Earthson who stopped Basmol from keeping the world strong.
 Stormbull Earth-husband was the second person to fight Basmol in Prax. 
Basmol fought him in a great battle which raged across the whole of Prax. 
Their anger was the equal to one another, and neither could hurt the other. 
Basmol heard the cries of Eiritha's children who could not find their mother.
 Their souls walked the world in a bad way, and so Basmol left the senseless
fight with Stormbull and went to end their pain.  Stormbull then hid himself,
and used secret magic to make a son in his wife's buried womb.  This is who
StoIrmbull is.  The Earth-husband who cared nothing for his wife's pain and used
bad magic on her.
Waha Butcher was the last person to fight Basmol in Prax.  Waha learned
secrets from his father Stormbull and from the Bad Spirit Malia.  He used
Malia's magic to weaken Basmol, used Stormbull's magic to kill Basmol, and
then used his own magic to steal Basmol's magic.  He used Basmol's magic to
learn the Peaceful Cut and to make the Covenant of the Eaters and Eaten. 
This is who Waha is.  The Butcher who kill
ed Basmol and stole his birthright.
 The living burial of Eiritha, the unnatural creation of Waha, and the
killing of Basmol, all these things helped to bring Ragnaglar Evil One into
the world.
  This is who we are now.  The children of Basmol who live on without our
family.  This is who we are now.  The children of Basmol who survive in the
land of our enemies.  This is who we are now.  The children of Basmol who
kill all those who brought the Evil One into the world.

*The Praxian nomads say the area called Orani's Mistake got it's name in this
way:  while fighting Basmol, Orani accepted the lion-god's surrender and
turned his back on him.  Basmol then leapt on Orani's back and broke his
neck.  Orani's mistake was in trusting Basmol not to fight.



Subject: Umath and Yinkin/Invisible God DIs
Message-ID: <>
Date: 13 Dec 93 16:39:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2625

Greetings all,
Can anyone tell me anything about the cults of Umath and Yinkin.
Umath I know is Primal Air - so I envisage him as a cult run by Shamen Priests,
with Divine such as Command Slyph - sort of a primative Orlanth.
Yinkin is a feline deity, possibly goddess of Shadow cats and therefore also 
part of the Storm pantheon.
Could anyone add to this, or at least give me references to check out ?
re:Invisible God and DI's.
We have always played that IG had no DI's - after all, he IS supposed to be 
Invisible, his actions beyond mortal ken.


From: (Jeff Okamoto)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 13 Dec 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 13 Dec 93 16:54:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2626

> From: (Colin Watson)
> Subject: Chaos; Elementals
> Since they're so dumb, I guess they must wander the Spirit Plane for rather
> a long time before finding a suitable Mundane place to form a body. When
> their substance is destroyed, their spirits return to the spirit world.

I don't know that elementals willingly/willfully manifest on the mundane
plane until/unless they are summoned by another entity.  Of course, you
could permanently bind one to an object on the mundane plane, but I believe
they are not normally found there.

> From: (Colin Watson)
> Subject: Planes
> So are the SpiritPlane & the HeroPlane/GodPlane actually the same place?
> (I thought otherwise.) If not, what would heroquesters be doing on the
> Spirit Plane?

No, the Spirit Plane and the Hero/God Plane are different.