From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
Organization: Lankhor Mhy and Associates
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 06 Jan 1994, part 2
Message-ID:
Precedence: junk
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From: eosgg@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
Subject: A foul commie plot ...
Message-ID: <9401052124.AA08015@raesp-farn.mod.uk>
Date: 5 Jan 94 21:24:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2736
re: tiphareth@aol.com's plot - sorry, that would never go down with the motley
crew I play with. They'd be smart enought to query the information - Orlanthi
sending weapons to chaos creatures ? Very suspicious. I'd have to do some
vicious manipulation into getting them to attack the caravan, and afterwards
they'd never forgive me. If I wanted to get them into trouble the 'vendetta'
would be best - characters casually kill 'a', who's bugging them, but 'a' has
a big brother/mother/family who rush out to avenge 'a', but get knobbled by
the party again, so the leige lord/clan/etc of 'b' steps in to put down this
sort of thing. You can keep this one up for months, it's one of the most basic
plots there are (read 'Njal's Saga' for a great example), and the players get
to do lots of killing (which is what they're *really* interested in - forget
this pansy _Role-Playing_ concept- for wimps ! )
On Pam's 'N. American Indians' considering slaying a captured opponent to be
an honourable act - isn't there something as well to do with how much pain the
enemy can stand ? I got the impression that for a lot of tribes on the N.E.
coast warfare was THE most important thing in your life - everything else was
subserviant to it, you being measured by the number of enemies you had killed.
Errr ... a bit off the point of 'sacrifice' being evil (And remember the Druids,
a fine and honourable body of men as you could wish not to meet). Evil is,
after all, in the eyes of the beholder, same as madness, beauty, etc.
What should be the yield of a sacrifice ? Two approaches;
1) all MP's are available if a sucessful ceremony skill is made
(or 1/10th POW if enchanting ?)
2) You're summoning a Demon, which will need a certain number of MP's in
order to appear.
Anyone ever seen anything official on this ?
Jeff Okamoto says:
`If they choose the "Light Side" and protect, then they are [in the manner of]
Arkat.`
You have to be kidding ! Arkat laid waste to how many countries ? Definitely
of the 'purify by fire' school of thought. And (although the events are lost
to Gloranthan history) what evil did Gbaji do ? Called the 'deceiver', not
the 'destroyer', after all. IMHO Gbaji was the good guy, but Arkat, being the
winner, rewrote history (A vaguely related point; try finding a reference to
Satan early on in the Bible. Apparently Lucifer started out as the guardian
to the gates of Heaven, but got a very bad press deal).
And Arkat wasn't above a little amorality himself (definition - 'absense of
morals' - how many cults, with different moralities, did Arkat join ?)
Arkat was as much a Heroquesting environmentalist as Saddam Hussein is the
Desert EcoFreak.
A long time ago I mentioned a 'SpiritQuest' I'd been contemplating. Using many
of the excellent suggestions that have appeared on the digest, three victims
were subjected to the horrors of an unplanned quest. They seemed to enjoy it
(or at least get very involved and frustrated, which is just as good).
A brief summary for the interested (I apologise for the length; long letters
are a Very Bad Thing).
Players: Orlanthi Female, Orlanthi Male, Humakti Male, all initiates of
local spirit of the valley (only ones in party).
Dream: from their wilderness stead the characters hear a womans voice.
Exiting stead, find themselves in town square at night with Ernalda statue.
Volunteer to continue; told to find the golden sheaf.
Town does clever fade, being replaced by springtime forest (it was midwinter).
Meet talking shadowcat, who has been told to guide them.
Guided to a clearing with single stalk of wheat (golden in sunlight).
Take it, vigourous dispute involving semi-arrow-tranced elves (5 in number).
Use wheat as a compass for direction.
Meet Fox, who laughs at them, says 5 is a *very* symbolic number, with a
Chalana Arroy healer they could all go REALLY interesting places.
Arrive at neat and orderly village in high summer, downtrodden villagers and
a bunch of (5) warriors armed with spears and hoplite shields.
Vigourous discussion regarding merits of spear vs. sword; Spearwielders defeated
and leader captured.
In village beautiful woman in green dress, golden girdle, looking not dissimilar
to statue in town square.
She asks have they come as liberators ? "Yes".
Asks male Orlanthi is he the one ? "Err.. ummm .. no."
Male Humakti says "I might be". On encouragement from Orlanthi, says he is.
Fox nearly chokes with hysterical laughter. Male Orlanthi realises too late ...
Humakti given kiss of marriage from woman. Party depart village. Male Orlanthi
undergoing much grief and self-chastisement.
Going along a straight path (no curves) arrive back at village ("Huh?") in
autumn. Village much shabbier, but people have a happier air. Invited into
stead on condition that they prove themselves (either by feat of skill or
answering a riddle each [answer to do with each person's cult]). Fox kicked
out of stead. Humakti chooses skill and defeats himself in best of 5 attempts,
Orlanthi fail in riddling and are shown the door.
- then - dream takes on a nasty turn, involving the presence of the ex-God
Thoughtwarper (defeated in Godtime by Yinkin just north of characters stead)
and the shadowcat, said shadowcat getting a severe beating from Thoughtwarper
and only living with party's magic (party at time of fight suffering from
warped thoughts).
Cat and Fox repeatedly say this shouldn't be happening (before and after).
Back on path, trees becoming bare of leaves, find cave with (5) trolls in.
Benefits of healthy living demonstrated forcibly to trolls. Find Mistress
Race troll who informs them the 'way is open'.
Out other end of cave, to find village in early spring (v.windy) looking even
shabbier with the unaesthetic addition of (5) crap Broo. Crap broo explain to
party the merits of a life filled with vile deeds; party barely counter broo
persuasive arguments.
Re-enter village, where big celebration is held, much feasting, Humakti gets to
rejoin woman in green dress and enjoy the benefits of married night-life.
Party leave hall, each in posession of small clay object.
Characters wake up; 4 different opinions of events from the 3 players.
Obvious, wasn't it ? Geoff.
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From: jh42393@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Heidbreder)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 05 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <199401052311.AA28343@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 5 Jan 94 11:11:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2737
please cancel my subscription to Runequest Dailly
jh42393.uiuc.edu
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From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Catching Up
Message-ID: <940106000110_100270.337_BHB31-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 6 Jan 94 00:01:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2738
________________
Human Sacrifice:
Do I have the only copy of Griffin Mountain on the Daily? Read the Chaos
Holy Ground 'scenario' for a set of human sacrifice --> POW gain rules.
Admittedly, there are special circumstances, and this is under RQ2.
I'm reading a new history of the Aztecs and Spaniards, "The Conquest of
Mexico", which seems to be pushing the blame for the obscene number of
flowery deaths in the late empire onto one cihuacoatl, Tlacaelel, who was
(apparently) an obsessive Huitzilopochtli cultist. But I wonder if this
isn't just revisionist Political Correctness on Hugh Thomas' part.
__________
Star Wars:
Not the only one, Pam: 'far as I could see, the Empire was evil because
Imperial officers spoke with English accents and their soldiers wanted to
check peoples' passports. I'd concur on the latter, dissent on the former.
Has anyone else on the Daily ever had to fill out a U.S. visa form?
____________
Yara Aranis:
While I like Sandy's explanation, the 'combined arms' = dragoons pun was
too tempting for me to pass up. But does she have four or six of them?
====
Nick
====
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From: carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Boy, it's hard to think of interesting subject lines.
Message-ID: <199401060114.AA17910@panix2.panix.com>
Date: 5 Jan 94 15:14:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2739
sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) writes in part:
R>I'd like to hereby denounce Jeff Okamoto in front of the entire RQ
>Daily. He's clearly Illuminated himself, and thus is no proper judge
>of whether it is a good or bad influence. I can only point out that I
>know for a fact that in playing RQ, he frequently, without coercion
>of any kind, runs sorcerers.
Well, in my current game every PC uses sorcery. No! You don't need
those torches! It's a different rules set! Anyway, I'm just doing it
for playtesting!
jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway) writes in part:
>...History leads credence to the suppostitions that
>it was Gbaji who walked away from that final battle. Arkat had become
>Gbaji to destroy Nysalor.
No, it doesn't, you heretic.
R>"Glorantha overview" == ?
R>You mean the old box, here. Right?
Yes.
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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Gloranthan cultures; Yara Aranis
Message-ID: <199401060134.AA17379@radiomail.net>
Date: 6 Jan 94 01:34:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2740
>From: Paul.Baker@mettav.royle.org
>Subject: From: Tom Zunder
>Orlanthi culture is so Californian as to be a caricature
Huh? Orlanthi culture is sort of a cross between Cymric/Celtic and Viking.
Check out King of Sartar, which has the most detail of any work on the
Orlanthi.
>I like to think of many Gloranthan cultures in transition from
>matriarchies to patriarchies.
From King of Sartar: "This [when the Feathered Horse Queen appeared] was a
great time for the Earth Tribe. In Tarsh the goddess controlled the
sacrificial Illaro dynasty, and in Sartar the Orendanae sat upon the tribal
rings of the three main tribes. In Esrolia they were strongest of course,
which was the reign of High Queen Bruvala." Seems like matri/patriarchy is
not necessarily a linear transition in Dragon Pass.
>From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
>I'd like to suggest that historically the best defense
>against cavalry was highly-trained infantry, ideally heavily armed
>with pikes.
In my games, horse nomads tend to have bows, so they just ride around
outside spell range and shoot arrows into the infantry. I don't recall
anyone coming up with real effective tactics against the Mongols, either
(tho someone who's less hazy on history no doubt knows; my guess is
firearms?).
The Lunars introduced caltrops to Prax; they're probably a Yara Aranis
invention. But they're not much good unless you have a little time to
prepare your position.
The Scythians had metal armor, too. It's conceivable that when the Pent
nomads withdrew into isolation after the Nights of Horror, they lost some
of their access to foreign metalworking. But since they can find bronze
lying around, they could surely pound it into armor.
>I DO know what Yara Aranis' two unique Rune spells happen to be
Last time you said she provided Kill Horse (cannot be resisted). Which I
figured to be a 3-point reusable spell (like Sever Spirit).
Note that arrow range is 120 metres for a composite bow (which we can
presume nomads use, since Earth nomads did), and rune magic range is 100
metres... Those darned rules...
BTW, since Yara Aranis is described as Horse Eater, I give her a ritual
spirit magic that lets her worshippers do so. It's probably something like
Bloody Cut...
David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206 783 7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net
"I say we should listen to the customers and give them what they want."
"What they want is better products for free." --Scott Adams
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From: graeme.lindsell@anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
Subject: Human Sacrifice in Glorantha
Message-ID: <9401060326.AA24468@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>
Date: 6 Jan 94 19:29:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2742
Carl Fink writes re human sacrifice in Glorantha:
> Nope. In fact, it's definitely done -- see _Cults of Prax_ for a
>Yelmalion version, and the _Prosopaedia_ for several examples of trolls
>doing it. It just isn't in the rules anywhere.
See also the description of the construction of the Temple of the Reaching
Moon in _King of Sartar_ (I think it's in the saction about Tatius the Dim
in the CHDP). Both willing and unwilling sacrifices are mentioned.
Also we're told that the Lunar Empire has gladiators. Correct me if I'm
wrong, but I think the Roman games evolved from human sacrifice by combat.
I wouldn't be surprised if the origin of gladiatorial games in the Empire
was from Dara Happan customs, since we see the Yelmalions doing something
similar in _Cults of Prax_, and I don't think they copied it from the
Orlanthi.
Here's another vote for calling the Aztecs "evil". They seemed to have a
problem with conspicuous consumption of human beings.
Sandy Petersen writes:
>IMO, any aversion the Morokanth might have towards eating
>humans is minimal. It's obvious that the only difference between a
>herd man and a "real man" is a Rune spell: why waste the spell?
What about the opposite? I'd think a hungry tribesman would probably
prefer to eat a Morokanth before one of his own herd animals.
Graeme Lindsell a.k.a gal502@huxley.anu.edu.au
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