From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
Organization: Lankhor Mhy and Associates
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 08 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID:
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: raphael@research.canon.oz.au (Andrew Raphael)
Subject: Herd Men, Morokanth, & Murder
Message-ID: <199401071055.AA02851@mama.research.canon.oz.au>
Date: 8 Jan 94 08:55:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2748
sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) writes:
>I've read articles by Morokanth-sympathizers who claim that the Morokanth
>only eat "herd men" and regard it as murder to eat a "real man". IMO,
>any aversion the Morokanth might have towards eating humans is minimal.
>It's obvious that the only difference between a herd man and a "real man"
>is a Rune spell: why waste the spell?
Religion. I think that Waha's Covenant forces morokanth living under it
to make a careful distinction between herd men (who lost the toss) and
humans (who won the toss). Assuming that sable riders don't eat bison
riders, then no morokanth initiate of Waha or Eiritha would eat a human
without risking apostasy. No sable rider would eat a morokanth either.
A herd man can thrive on a prairie grasses in the Wastes, where a
human cannot. It's a fixed-INT creature so you could make it a familiar.
You can awaken it as an allied spirit, use a herd man's hand in a Ball Of
Tails, worship Eiritha (Herd Man), etc. It's very different from a human.
It's an anthropomorphic bison. I'll bet they taste different to humans.
(Uz know! ;-)
Morokanth that don't worship Waha or Eiritha are another matter. I think
the social conditioning that applies to humans would apply to them too,
& cannibalism might be as rare amongst morokanth as amongst humans in
the same society.
Sure, there's a Waha Rune spell that turns humans into herd men.
That's part of the magical ecology of Prax. I think it should work on
Wareran humans only. No Kralorelan or Agimori or Veldang was party to
Waha's Covenant, so I'll bet the spell doesn't work on them.
The "ghost disease", kuru, eliminated religious cannibalism in the
PNG tribe it affected. Otherwise, they'd still be eating their dead.
Kuru was the human equivalent of BSE, or mad cow disease. If you want
to simulate this in Glorantha, use Brain Fever & Shakes.
---------------------
From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Chaos and Trollkin
Message-ID: <9401071355.AA08337@Sun.COM>
Date: 7 Jan 94 12:54:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2749
Ref: X-RQ-ID: 2746
1) Tusk Riders and *some* undead are NOT Chaotic, just Very unpleasant.
2) The degeneration of trolls started long before the Curse of Gbaji.
Trollkin were the result of this curse (that's why it is also known as
the Trollkin Curse). Gbaji is known as Womb Biter by the Uz as especially
hated (they have no doubt that Gbaji == Chaos).
Most Mistress race trolls were born in Godtime and quickly became
immortal, those who were born after the Dawn generally followed in their
footsteps.
I am uncertain as to whether Dark Trolls appeared during Godtime,
but I doubt whether the large troll armies which are described in TrollPak
were composed entirely of Mistress Race Trolls. Anyway since time began
Mistress Race Trolls have become rarer and Drak Trolls relatively more
abundant, although Trolls as a race have dwindled over the years.
Great Trolls were a half successful attempt by Crag Spider to recreate
the Mistress Race. They are relatively recent.
Surprisingly Trollkin may prove to be of benefit to Trolls as they
provide a plentiful supply of warriors, workers and food. Thus, preserving
Trolls from untimely deaths.
3) I once ran an encounter for my players (generally Orlanthi and Praxians)
when they can across a scene of carnage with about 100 dead broo and other
chaos monsters strewn about a patch of the Wastes! Investigating further
they came across a band of about 10 dead trolls (most in lead armour).
When they approached they heard groans from a big female who appeared to
be relatively unharmed (except for some blood where the lead skirts of her
armour had been torn away). The party approached cautiously only to find that
one of the male trolls who they thought was dead (he was covered with blood
and wounds and his leg was severed!) staggered to a sitting position and
growled at them (he had about 2 HP and 2 MP left). One of the party understood the darktongue "Keep away, chaos lovers, or die horribly".
The party negotiated and eventually were allowed to help heal the troll, but
only after they had removed all the Iron from their persons (great trust since
that was most of their weapons and armour). After gaining the trust of the
Kaargs Son (yes, you guessed it) they were honoured to be able to assist
in the birth of a Baby Mistress Troll. The mother was a mistress race and
had heroquested to give birth to the baby. Only the CA healer had a clue as
what to do and the others were told to boil lots of water and drag the dead
broo away. The baby was slightly premature, bought on by the rather strenuous
fight with chaos (the heroquest resisting the birth of the Mistress Race baby).
Anyway, despite the birth being premature and in the middle of the day, Kyger
Litor was able to intervene because All Mistress Race Trolls are born in
darkness and a portion of the Praxian Wastes was covered by Xentha for one hour while the baby was born.
The Mother thanked the party and gave them each a pendant formed from bolgs
which she had biten, fusing them together and imprinting her teeth in them.
Now the party just have to show their pendants to be recognized as *troll
friends* as the teeth marks are unmistakably Mistress Race! Of course, this
does not mean that trolls will bow before them and give them what they want,
but it does mean that they are not eatten, or attacked out of hand and they
can normally stay in troll towns (if they want to and are prepared to pay their way).
-----
Lewis
-----
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Elementals in conflict
Message-ID: <9401071528.AA22500@condor>
Date: 7 Jan 94 15:28:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2750
Here's a rules question which occurred to me in a game last night:
What is the result if the various different types of elementals are
set against each other in combat?
Can they affect each other at all, or are they mutually immune?
Do undines douse salamanders; or do salamanders vapourise undines?
Can a shade extinguish a salamander?... etc.
Can salamanders attack each other effectively?
Clearly the damage described in the monster descriptions is that which can
be inflicted on fragile humans (ie. the PCs). But its quite possible in a
game that duelling magicians might unleash elementals of different types to
attack each other, and I don't think that elementals would be affected in
the same way that human opponents are. Any thoughts?
___
CW.
---------------------
From: okamoto@hpcc101.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 06 Jan 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <9401071656.AA13128@hpcc101.corp.hp.com>
Date: 7 Jan 94 16:56:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2751
> From: eosgg@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
> Subject: A foul commie plot ...
>
> IMHO Gbaji was the good guy, but Arkat, being the winner, rewrote history
Arkat protected the world from the most sophisticated form of Chaos that
Glorantha had yet seen. Gbaji does not destroy utterly (as Kajabor does),
nor destroy physically (as gorp does), nor corrupt one physically (as
Pocharngo does). No, Gbaji corrupts without seeming to corrupt. He corrupts
ethically, spreading anarchy wherever he goes.
> Arkat was as much a Heroquesting environmentalist as Saddam Hussein is the
> Desert EcoFreak.
Arkat set up warriors on the known HeroQuest paths in an attempt to keep
greedy individuals from plundering the Hero Plane. As we all know, the
God Learners did this and destroyed themselves.
Jeff
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ daily
Message-ID: <9401071739.AA14094@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 7 Jan 94 05:39:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2752
Colin Watson sez:
>Sometimes it was an honour to be sacrificed; folks even volunteered.
>This is true of the Celts, tho I dunno about the Aztecs
The Aztecs considered it an honor to be sacrificed, but they still
didn't sacrifice their own people very often. They did play a version
of basketball and the losing team captain was sometimes sacrificed
(In one of my sources it says the entire losing team dies, but I
can't find this confirmed elsewhere -- maybe only very late in Aztec
decadence did this happen). In addition, the winning team got for
their prize all the spectators' clothing (you were supposed to dress
up for a ball game), so the end of a game was a free-for-all, as the
spectators would try to escape while the winning team tried to catch
them and tear off their clothes. Meanwhile the sinister tattered
priests would lurch down into the stand and grab the losers to haul
'em away for bloody sacrifice. What an image.
>In Glorantha I think chaos cultists are as likely to go around
>sacrificing each other rather than outsiders who's souls are pledged
>to other gods already.
I think that "volunteer" sacrifices are largely found among the
"good" cults, like the Earth cult blood-sacrifices, or Sun god
sacrifices. Chaos cultists may indeed sacrifice their own, if no one
better is available, but I imagine it is not a great honor -- rather,
they simply grab some screaming broo out of the herd and gut him
there on the stand.
>the best way to screw archers would be with a spell which increased
>the strength of the wind
Probably a poor choice for a Lunar (i.e., anti-storm) god.
Rich Staats sez:
>However well intentioned eating sentients is poor form.
I agree. I think Morokanth do it, and that is the major reason that
they are hated so much by the other tribes.
>There are several races that are interested in sacrifices and
>consuming sentients. Most of the ones I can think of are Chaotic,
>e.g. Tuskriders, Undead, etc.
Tuskriders are not chaotic. Some undead are not chaotic. I don't
think cannibalism and Chaos are necessarily connected at all. Broos
might eat someone, but they are not hated and feared because of their
cannibalistic tendencies, but because they spread disease. Torture
and rape is the broo threat, not being devoured alive. Scorpion men
obviously eat you, but it's more scary than that, because you might
be reborn.
>Just out of curiousity, what was the old Mistress Troll view on
>consuming sentients? They were all immortal.
Until the Sun died and came to Hell, the trolls mostly lived in Hell
and hadn't encountered all that many other individuals to eat. The
Sun's arrival, accompanied by Death, was the first troll curse,
creating the uzko, Dark Trolls, first degenerates from the Mistress
Race. The Curse of Kin occurred at the start of the Gbaji Wars, when
Nysalor cursed the troll race. So they've had two curses.
Trolls clearly delight in consuming other sentient beings. While they
might consider elves to be plants and dwarfs rocks, they eat people,
dragonewts, undead, and Morokanth as well. According to Greg
Stafford, there are special elf rituals held only in utmost secrecy
in which the elves eat trolls and dwarfs (symbolically? I don't
know). And we know that some of the canned dwarf food is made from
rendered down elf and troll (see the Different Worlds Mostali issue),
though this is unbeknownst to most dwarfs. In other words, all the
Elder races eat one another.
TROLL BREEDING:
(Mistress Race = uzuz; Dark Troll = uzko; Trollkin = enlo)
Mother Offspring
Uzuz 50/50 uzko/uzuz
Uzko 50/50 uzko/enlo litter (1d6)
Enlo enlo
Remember, if an uzko female bears an enlo litter, she must refrain
from breeding for a full year to purify herself. Then she can try
again, and is back at the 50/50 chance for an uzko. Otherwise, she is
certain to bear enlo litters from then on.
Look at the progression in the troll breeding rates. What it boils
down to is that once uzuz vanish from a community, they are gone for
good. Ditto for uzko. Ultimately, all troll communities will degrade
into pure enlo societies. This is in the long run, of course, and may
take much longer than the mere 1000 or so years they've been
degenerating so far. But certainly the trolls could use a cure for
Nysalor's curse.
NYSALOR
There's been a lot of Nysalor defense in the Daily lately,
combined with accusations of Arkat being Gbaji and such. While I'm
not saying I disagree with what's being said, I feel that someone
ought to stand up for the traditionalist view. See here, all you
revisionists, just because the old timey guys all said Nysalor was
bad doesn't mean they were wrong. Sure, Nysalor seemed like a good
guy to the guys right there in the heart of his empire, but look at
the other things Nysalor did.
He cursed the trolls so sorely it will ultimately lead to
their extinction. He stuck his allies, the Telmori, with a chaos
curse (no doubt about the chaos here -- werewolves radiate it
openly). He instituted a reign of vampire kings in the West, and his
riddlers spread disease among the Seshnegi and Brithini. The
destruction in Ralios wasn't all caused by Arkat's invading army --
Nysalor's Monster Army was a big part of it, too.
Remember that the Theyalans in Maniria saw Arkat as a
liberator. The Malkioni (no friends to the Theyalans) saw Arkat as a
liberator. Even the trolls saw Arkat as a liberator. Harmast
Barefoot's original Lightbringer quest was an attempt to destroy the
evil of Nysalor, and he got Arkat in it. His second quest freed Talor
the Laughing Warrior, and he fought against Nysalor, freeing all
Fronela -- was Talor a force of darkness, too?
What of the ship from Pamaltela that arrived in the Second
Age to fight Gbaji? True, they came a century too late, but it is
clear that they recognized Gbaji as a force of evil to be combatted.
After Nysalor's destruction, Arkat retired to rule his Dark
Empire. The Dark Empire was hardly oppressive or harsh -- if Arkat
was Gbaji (a tale originating in Dorastor, by the way, land of lies)
why such quiet and peace after the holocaust wreaked over the
previous 75 years?
I suggest that the story of Arkat/Gbaji/Nysalor is not only
more complicated than the simplistic "Arkat=Good Gbaji=Bad", but it
is even more complicated than the revisionist (still simplistic)
"Arkat=Bad Nysalor=Good" view that some of you now profess to hold.
So there. Nyaah.
---------------------
From: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Subject: Anti Archery Magic
Message-ID: <01H7EHX25D5U8Y4ZHX@wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 7 Jan 94 08:27:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2753
I remember one extremely effective anti-archery spell from an issue of
Heroes magazine, but it was sorcery. The spell was an arrow magnet
kind of spell that attracted arrows that were shot at the vicinity of
the target to the target. So if you cast this spell on a boulder and
then stand on it then arrows shot at you will hit the boulder instead.
I think it redirected the next INTENSITY number of missiles. A Yara
Arani could cast such a spell on her shield and the next INTENSITY
number of missiles shot at her would hit her shield. Using a spirit
magic spell like this the heavily armored YA lancers would cast the
spell before entering arrow range and then charge at the archers,
smashing them once they reached close combat range. Alternately the YA
spell could be a specialized Parry spell that raised shield AP by +1
and parry percentage against missiles by +10% per point of spell. The
parry bonus needs to be higher than 5% because it's only useful
against missiles.
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
"Enough sound bites. Let's get to work." -- Ross Perot sound bite
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Re: Orlanthi analog; GM; eating people; Yara Aranis
Message-ID: <199401072012.AA05116@radiomail.net>
Date: 7 Jan 94 20:12:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2754
>From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
>David Dunham wrote:
>>Orlanthi culture is sort of a cross between Cymric/Celtic and Viking.
>
>I never really saw what was so Celtic about Orlanthi. A Storm God certainly
>doesn't seem very Celtic to me. They're more like Vikings without ships.
I suppose I based this partly on the woad.
>From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
>PS. Nick: Glad to see that there are two of us who own (and have read!)
>Griffin Mountain.
Griffin Mountain is the best roleplaying supplement I've ever seen.
>From: staats@MIT.EDU
>Subject: Eating those poor humans and other rambling thoughts!
> However well intentioned eating sentients is poor form. I cast one
>'yea' vote for calling the Aztecs evil for doing so. The difference between
>casting a Divine spell or not for the Morocanth is the difference between
>eating a sentient and not. I am looking primarily at human motivation here.
That's how I draw the line -- in Griffin Island, the Votanki consider the
bluebuck sacred, and won't hunt it. I think it's because this animal (like
the dog) can talk (even if only to shamans). You don't eat things that can
talk.
Trolls are obviously a different case that kind of breaks this rule, but as
you say, they're not human.
A science fiction (though it reads closer to anthropological fantasy) book
that shows non-evil cannibalism is _Courtship_Rite_ by Donald Kingsbury.
The humans are on a world where the only protein source is humans. (Note
that some people think this is almost the same situation facing the Aztecs,
who packed a whole lot of people into the Valley of Mexico).
>From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
>Dave Dunham sez:
>> Last time you said [Yara Aranis] provided Kill Horse
>I misremembered, When someone else in the Daily said that she should
>Frighten horses, my memory returned like a shot and the entirety of
>her anti-horse spell became clear to me.
Why can't YA have both Kill Horse (really annoys the leader of the nomads)
and Frighten Horse (to work against the whole horde)?
---------------------
From: nh0g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Nils Hammer)
Subject: Anti-Cavalry Infantry
Message-ID:
Date: 7 Jan 94 14:10:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2755
I once heard of an anti-cavalry technique that seems appropriate for
heroic PCs.
The unmounted warriors work in teams of 2. One has a two-handed sword, and
the other a two-handed shield. The shieldman takes the on-coming lance by parry
or getting run through. The swordsman steps out from behind the shield and
cleaves the horse as it goes by. The rider shouldn't be too dificult to
deal with after
that.
I can't vouch for the history or culture of this trick. It was told to
me by a british
history-reenactment enthusiast when we were in the (US) army 15 years ago.
In Runequest terms we would need to specify what the two-handed shield is.
I imagine that the swordsman could suffer from secondary knockback unless he
is placed just right. This probably would not work in a very tight
formation, so a
charge by cavalry with *perfect* lines having no space between horses might
overwhelm it.
Nils K. Hammer
nh0g@andrew.cmu.edu
---------------------
From: malcolm109@aol.com
Subject: Tarsh Exiles
Message-ID: <9401071925.tn52258@aol.com>
Date: 8 Jan 94 00:25:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2756
I am trying to flesh out the Tarsh Exiles and the Wintertop region for use as
a campaign setting. To that end I have been gathering together all the
published information on the area I can find. I have made a few suppositions
based on the information, and I'd like to throw out my ideas for discusion,
as well as ask some questions about the area to those more knowledgable than
I.
The most deatiled map of the region that I have is the Dragon Pass Game map.
This map shows the exiles area of control, the Earthshaker Temple, the
Wintertop settlement which is classified as a fortress, and the stockade town
of Iristhold. Since the Dragon Pass section of the Glorantha box lists the
population of the region as 35,000, I have assumed that there are a few more
towns in the region along with a number of farming steads. This contradicts
the many statements that claim that the Exiles have stopped farming and rely
exculsively on raiding . While I believe that the Exiles definately raid to
aquire goods, I find it hard to believe that 35,000 settle people could
survive primarily on bounty from raiding.
Since the full Maran Gor write up in tales states that initiates "may not
directly till the soil or heard beasts," I have guessed that many of the
residents of the area are only lay members of the cult. Must men I would
wager are Orlanth initiates, while most women would be initiates of Ernalda,
although the number of initiates of the other Earth cults would be higher
than in other areas. I'm sure that a very large minority of both men and
women are Maran Gor initiates with the number of women cult members far
exceeding the number of males.
Since a female dominated cult rules the region I must suppose that women have
more power in the Exile communty than in normal Orlanthi society. They are
probably in general the dominant sex in the region.
While it's clear that the Maran Gor priestesses and their counsel are in
complete control of the region, I'd bet that there is an Orlanthi ring of
males that aids the priestesses in their rule. If nothing else they could
serve as "kings" for sacrifice to the godess.
I tend to believe from hints given in KOS that the original Tarshites where
pursuaded by the Maran Gor priestesses to practice ritual sacrifice of their
male leaders, and therefore the Exiles being the last remenant of Old Tarsh
and the stronghold of Maran Gor most likely continue this tradition.
Is there any information on the High Priestess available, other than the fact
that she's a VERY heavy woman? What about the TWINS counter in the DP game?
It's my guess that they are a set of one male and one female twins, who are
perhaps the offspring of the brother of the High Priestess. (Based on the KOS
Tarsh chapter which prominently features a male and female set of twin
heroes.)
Also from the KOS Tarsh article I would guess that the vast majority of the
Exiles are members of the Kerofineli Tribe.
Now for some final questions. Does anyone have any information about the othe
DP game named units? The Moon Haters? The Old School? The Baron's Friends?
And who's the Baron? Any guesses?