Bell Digest v940118p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 18 Jan 1994, part 1
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk

X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest
format.

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


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From: pearse_w_r@bt-web.bt.co.uk (pearse_w_r)
Subject: RQ/Tekumel Questions
Message-ID: <9401171020.AA25002@Sun.COM>
Date: 17 Jan 94 10:20:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2807


I've now read Sandy P's RQ/Tekumel rules, in conjunction with the 
DeluxeRQ III rules, and I have some questions, if anyone would be kind
enough to help me with them.  Of course I may be missing 
the obvious, as a newcomer to playing RQ, so all input welcome.  I tried 
rolling up a starting character, and got stuck.  This is where...

MAG is presumably Pedhetl.  But what is it used for?  Everything seems
to use 'Magic Bonus'.  I'm deeply confused about how the magic system
works.

Is sorcery the only type of magic in RQ/Tekmel?

Magic Bonus - how can this be less than zero?  (Character Generation
section 2)

Character Generation section 4 - what is the sorcery stat?  And what 
is the INT+POW-20?

Something is missing from the paragraph about speciality weapons like
the 'Whispering Death'.

In the magic rules, reference is made to the five basic magic skills.
Intensity, Duration, Range and multispell are detailed later.  What is
the fifth one?

What starting spells do you have?  Do you memorise chosen spells, and
if so is it INT related as in RQIII?

On a different note:

What do you do about monsters?  I know the Tekumel Bestiary is in 
print, so presumably it can be adapted with a bit of initiative.

All input gratefully received.

Roger Pearse

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From: boliv@marin.unit.no
Subject: Rough Guide of Boldhome
Message-ID: <9401171446.AA03170@mkws2.marina.unit.no>
Date: 17 Jan 94 16:46:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2808


  I was not among the lucky guys who reached the RQ-con
last week-end, so could there be one of them who agrees
to send us, the unlucky, a copy of the "Rough guide of
Boldhome" that was given to the players during the convention ?

Thanks in advance, Olivier

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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: RQ-Con Report Day 3
Message-ID: <199401171802.AA04038@radiomail.net>
Date: 17 Jan 94 18:02:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2809

As other days, I got up and ate a leisurely breakfast, and missed the first
session.

Greg Stafford gave an entertaining summary of English history in general
and William the Marshall in particular (William was apparently a model for
Lancelot when the Arthurian legends were actually written down), as well as
Thomas Mallory (who I'd never known was a knight who kept getting arrested
for raiding Church property, and wrote Morte D'Arthur in prison).

The RuneQuest Renaissance session generated the variety of discussion you
might expect. Best new idea I heard was that Borderlands (or something like
it) be the next release after RQ4/Glorantha.

The auction appeared to generate a great deal of money (maybe the con will
break even?). A 1st edition White Bear Red Moon sold for something like
$110. I left after Griffin Mountain went for $70 (and many other items were
over $40).

The only RQ game I played was a "sticks & shamanism" heroquest, which was
quite enjoyable.

Crab dinner with Sandy Petersen was a mild disappointment (oops, you can't
get whole crabs in winter), but we did hear about the broo who'd mated with
a cast iron stove (and could open a door so you could see the fire in his
belly), and why most broos are goat-like (goats graze on higher hills than
sheep, and are less tended), that Danfive Xaron killed Teelo Nori during
the ritual to bring back the Red Goddess (which is why she has no cult),
and that the Jrusteli had mined the Block, and about the Jrusteli-caused
Hungry Ghosts/Cannibal Cult in Kralorela.

BTW, in the local paper, the Sun(!), was the headline "Huge Raid Closes the
Block."

David Dunham * Software Designer  *  Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net
(on the road in Denver)


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From: ngl28@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: "VARIOUS FROM SATURDAY
Message-ID: <5690*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 17 Jan 94 20:12:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2810

Nils Weinander in X-RQ-ID: 2801

>1.	Golden Mokato is specified as the centre of the second age
>	Eastern Sea Empire which 'ruled half the seas', but according
>	to various accounts of the world history the God Learners
>	ruled the seas and coastal areas. In the east they even
>	overthrew the Dragon Emperor of Kralorela for a while. I
>	can't figure a good compromise for this. Suggestions?

Easy. The God Learners ruled over the seas north and west of Magasta's 
Pool, up to the Kralori coast, and on the Pamaltelan coast up to the Maslo 
Sea. The lands beyond were visited (maybe), but never part of the Empire of 
the Middle Sea. (Even though Kralorela was ruled by a band of God Learners, 
it never payed respect or homage to the Jrusteli emperor.)

This leaves al of the eastern seas open for Mokato to rule. From theit 
point of view, certtainly half the the seas, if not more.

>2.	Does anyone have any information/ideas on Vormainian colour
>	magic? Some of the Vormain gods are mentioned in the Proso-
>	paedia in GoG, but what the colour magic is about is not
>	explained.

Little beyond that, and creative speculation.. The colours seem to take the 
role the Runes did in certain other cultures.

>3.	I didn't plan on using the island of Teleos, but I'm curious
>	about the almost total lack of information. Is it a blank land?

Not at all. In King of Sartar there is a brief allusion of Harrek's and 
Argrath's activities there (around p.20), indicating that the unpublished 
Harreksaga has details. There are several other brief allusions strewn 
across material related mainly to other regions, all hinting at fairly 
worked out myths. I'll check my (still growing, and far from complete) 
encyclopaedia for references.

>Now for some other things:

>Arkat/Gbaji dispute:
>I'm definitely on the 'Arkat = good guy' side, but Gbaji at least did
>one good thing: the trollkin curse (yes I am a fundamentalistic
>troll hater :-)).

In the battle of the City of miracles, Arkat and Gbaji finally merged, 
IMHO. In Cults of Terror there is the most detailed account on Arkat's 
wars, and there it is stated that Arkat was not a troll anymore after he 
returned with the broken body of Gbaji. (The trolls say so, too.) His reign 
afterwards had much in common with the early years of Nysalor's reign, so 
whoever returned from that battle, it seems it was the good guy. Let's call 
him Arkat.


Unrelated questions:

Do we know anything about the Galanini from Ralios except the few tidbits 
in "Dorastor Land of Doom", Elder Secrets and King of Sartar, and their god 
Ehilm? And what does a fire god have to do with Hsunchen worship of horses?

Did anyone else stumble about the phrase that Orlanth bathed in the Flame 
or Fire of Ehilm when proving his sincerity before Yelm in the Lightbringers 
Quest? Why Ehilm? Is that just another Sun/Sky/Fire god, like Elmal, 
Yelmalio, Yu-kargzant, Yelm? Is that the sorcerer and false god the 
Brithini and some Malkioni claim him to be? If so, why was he or his flame 
present in hell? Where were Worlath, or Humct?

I'll never understand this solar muck-up of responsibilities. How much more 
pleasing the singleminded contrariness of the Storm deities in legend, even 
though this Riddler Nick Brooke makes me confuse Ragnaglar with Vadrus. 
Anyone there to enlighten (NOT illuminate) me?

Joerg Baumgartner
ngl28@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de

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From: ngl28@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: "HORSES ARCHERS MOON GODDESSES
Message-ID: <5691*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 17 Jan 94 20:13:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2811


Andrew Bean in X-RQ-ID: 2803

>As some one commented on earlier but I would like to reinforce in 
>primitive socities staying at a distance and peppering your opponents
>with bow fire is the work of cowards or elves. Speaking from my experience 
>as a Pentan youth in a campaign I am playing part of my growing-up
>process is going out and slaying a number of my tribe's enemies to
>prove I am worthy of adulthood (I bring back their jawbones as proof).

[nice story about a Pentan's adventures deleted]

That's why disorganized Pent tribes pose no real threat, but are a bloody 
nuisance. They become dangerous when united by a great hero (like Hyalor 
who I suppose led the conquest of Dara Happa before the Dawn, or like Sheng 
Seleris or his lieutenants, the last of whom died in the Nights of Horror). 

>The only people who practice horse archery as a specific skill are 
>Yelmalion Kuschile Horse Archers and they are only a minor hero cult
>of that lot anyway.

And they are Sartarites! Well, Manirians, in all likelyhood. In King of 
Sartar the Hyaloring triarchy of Colymar Clans seem to have been Elmal/
Yelmalio worshipping Orlanthi, who are descendants of Kuschile.

Now the name Hyaloring seems to suggest Pentan or Dara Happan ancestry 
(I always figured Hyalor Horsebreaker to be Pentan), but during the Second 
council or during EWF times such cultural mingling might have occured. The 
Pol Joni and the Grazers and the centaurs all seem to be descendants of the 
Pure Horse Tribe of Prax, sometimes through the agency of others (Praxians 
casting the Black Net at Alavan Argay which Derik Pol Joni retrieved in his 
heroquest and drew his horse-riding followers from, the Remakers of the 
Dragon Pass Lakes (today's Upland Marsh) and Beast Valley (then Remakerela) 
are more likely to have found volunteers for their centaur project from this 
tribe ("We've found the means to reunite both tribes of Yelm's children, the 
horses and the riders") than from anyone else, and the Grazeland pony breeders 
either descend directly from refugees from Alavan Argay, or from "butchered" 
pain centaurs, or both). 

Maybe Kuschile still was a Pentan...

>My Pentan would certainly regard Horse archery for
>more than one round, as you close, to be cowardice.
but
>[If the Lunars used hoplite
>squares to try and stop this then they probably would be showered by
>arrows until the square broke and the charge would have a chance to
>get in to allow close quarters combat]. 

In the example of your young Pentan initiation fights, there was little to 
be gained from volley and run tactics. The opponents were not a massed body 
of fighters, rather a weak tribe on the march. I agree that agains such 
opponents, chivalry (i.e. hitting them in melee instead of firing) is very 
much in character. After the first failed charge into a body of pikemen, 
everyone but lunatics would employ missile fire tactics against such troops.

>I think this would
>be true for a lot of Gloranthan cultures and will be a big advantage
>to whatever culture eventually shrugs off the cowardice view. Perhaps
>the Yelm cultures were the only ones who became sufficiently advanced
>to do this and they still prefer massed hoplite slug it out fests anyway.

I think this is more due to their shortage in horses (and riding technology) 
in those fat Oslir Valley cities than to preferred combat techniques. 
Yelm's weapon in the contest of arms was the bow, and he lost only because 
Orlanth cheated (sez the Yelm cult).

>As for Yara Aranis she is feared because she is the daughter of the 
>demoness Eater of Horses, one of Pents worse nightmares. The Lunars
>would not be afraid of Mongol horse archery tactics so much as a huge
>massed charge by mounted cavalrymen.

They seemed quite unafraid when facing the Praxian nomads at Moonbroth, and 
also on Sor-eels expedition to the Paps in 1605. And a charge from horseback 
surely looks pale compared to a charge of Bison lancers.

>Anyway I think Yara Aranis
>spells should frighten horses by putting images in the horses minds
>of their ancient fear of her mother. Bit like a befuddle in its ability
>to affect the mind but causing fear. If it is a Rune spell have it area
>affecting; if a spirit magic spell then have it work on one horse at
>a time POW vs POW. It would be used to break up the charge and throw
>the warriors into confusion allowing a disciplined unit of spearmen or
>even ragged militia a chance at cleaning up the disorganised Pent line.

Illusion powers lie in the realm of the generic Moon Goddess in RQ3. Yara 
Aranis _is_ a moon goddess, and might have a specialized illusion power. 
Carnivore odours, coupled with the stench of blood (of freshly sacrificed 
horses?) and images of teeth might well do the trick. As might a create 
ghost ritual performed on the sacrificed horse, to be released on the 
approaching cavalry.
Fear is a darkness emotion, and the Lunars have various darkness ties, 
which would make this fit, too. As creatures of the sky, i.e. light, 
application of darkness must be more terrifying to horses than fire.

>Perhaps the Yara Aranis worshippers do have a role in defending
>the Lunar Settler and educating their militia but considering they 
>are worshipper of a demi-demoness I think they would be more likely to be a 
>mob of feared (by your average Lunar peasant) loonies into much
>bloody sacrifice of their enemies and their horses. [...]
>I can't see her ever being viewed as anything other than a necessary evil.

The Lunars seem to love their necessary evils in the hour of need, which 
occurs about 24 times a day if you live next to horse barbarians. Which 
Lunar peasant knows her mother? All know her father, the benevolent and wise 
Red Emperor (please excuse this Lunar propaganda). And then there are a lot 
more entities in the pantheon to be feared. Anyone volunteer for a Jakaleel 
ritual? For Danfive Xaron? For the Blue Moon (hah, you blew your cover)?

>Remember First Slave 
>was bound by Yara Aranis as she was still a new-born babe. 

Is this from "The History of the Lunar Empire" in one of the early Heroes 
issues?


Very much obliged to David Dunham's efforts in Monday's digest. Too bad my 
modem is defect (this is from my work account). In spirit we're there... 

Joerg Baumgartner
ngl28@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de

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From: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Subject: Carmania sources
Message-ID: <01H7SW69JVS29GVZDC@wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 17 Jan 94 15:49:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2812

Hi Everyone,

Carmanian information wanted...

I'm back from RQ-Con and fired up with enthusiasm or something a lot
like it and so was casting about for an area to write about with an
eventual goal of publication. Judging from the talk at the convention
Carmania would be a good place to write about if you wanted to get
published. It is on the edge of the detailed areas so there is some
background but not enough so that you would get gregged at every turn,
and the bare bones of the politics as described in Glorantha:
Genertela sound really wild, there are some great ruins around Castle
Blue that would do with detailing, and the city of Harandash
especially sounds like a great base for a campaign. So I'd like to
start working on it, but I'd like to know first if anybody has any
more detail about Carmania than is found in the Genertela Book. I know
that Nick Brooke is writing a tome on Carmanian myth and religion, and
that the Carmanian schools of sorcery are detailed in the RQ4 draft,
but what else is known? For instance, if anybody knows anything
definite about kinship relations and inheritance in Carmania I'd love
to hear it. Upon those details rest the most interesting adventure
hooks I've come up with. There are plenty of other hooks, but kinship
is so basic to culture and there isn't anything about Carmanian
kinship in GG. Also does anybody has a more detailed map than is in GG
or can they tell me officially where Spol, Jhor, Worion, the Western
Reaches (I don't know where they start and Bindle begins), and
Burntwall would be on the map? One of the first things I plan to do is
make a map, since the layout of the country influences a lot of the
stories that can be told in it.

Thanks in advance!

whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller            internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
"Enough sound bites. Let's get to work."        -- Ross Perot sound bite

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From: prhine@wam.umd.edu (Philip Rhinelander)
Subject: A Lurker surfaces...
Message-ID: 
Date: 17 Jan 94 19:54:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2813

	Hello all, first post to this group. I just got back from RQCon 
and can state that it was absolutly, positivly the best Con I have ever 
attended. As a dedicated RQ/Glorantha nut, I will admit a certain bias; 
I had high hopes for this Con, and I am glad to say that they were 
exceeded. David Cheng, et. al., thank you and I will do my best to make 
it to #2. 
	Ok, as I mentioned this is my first post to this group. I've been 
lurking for a month or so, and know that I *should* post some blasphemous 
heresy to stir up the pot, but I'm just fresh out of heresy this morning :)
I would like to pose the following, however. In the campaign I'm running, my 
party spends a great deal of time away from thier birth lands; i.e. 
Lightbringers in the South Seas, Pamaltela, etc. Now, most are just 
reaching Rune level, and I am trying to figure out how to handle thier 
relationship with thier distant Temples. Do they really need to hop the 
pond back to Genertela just to refresh thier Rune magic? More basic to 
this question (I think) is the question of proselytism; what does the 
Compromise say about the ability of the Lightbringer pantheon to win new 
followers? The Lunar empire has demonstrated the effectivness of this 
approach (but my understanding is that She may not be so tightly bound by 
the Web).  
	Anyway, how do *you* handle characters cut off from thier native 
temples?

PHR - prhine@wam.umd.edu -


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From: appel@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon D. Appel)
Subject: RQ-Con Report I: The Issaries Grand Market
Message-ID: <199401180527.VAA27465@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Date: 17 Jan 94 13:27:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2814

Well, I'm back from RQ-Con, and let me say this: it was a real blast.
David Cheng did an excellent job of putting together a convention that
was well worth the $$$ it cost.  My congratulations and thanks to him.
I've got pages and pages of notes on the convention that I'm going to
try and pass on in the next couple of days.  Here, I start with some
notes on the many goodies that were available at RQ-Con, beginning
with a report on the prices that items went for at auction.

THE AUCTION

As usual, old RQ2 items went for high prices.  I found it very useful
when, last year, a Convulsion attendee reported on the prices at
auction.  So below I've compiled the majority of the auction results
from RQ-Con:

RQ Items:

Apple Lane, First Edition					$7
Big Rubble							$80
Cults of Prax (poor)						$60
Cults of Terror							$100
Griffin Mountain (good)						$70,65,65
Griffin Mountain (worn)						$55
Legendary Duck Tower						$25
Nomad Gods							$185,180
Pavis								$95
Quest World							$31
RuneQuest, First Edition					$50
RuneQuest, Second Edition (good)				$31,30
RuneQuest, Second Edition (poor)				$20
Snake Pipe Hollow, First Edition				$35
SoloQuest							$16
SoloQuest 2: Scorpion Hall					$31
SoloQuest 3: The Snow King's Bride				$12
Trollpak, First Edition						$40,35
Trollpak, First Edition (books only)				$25
White Bear, Red Moon, First Edition				$110
White Bear, Red Moon, First Edition (Rules Only)		$30,30
White Bear, Red Moon, Second Edition				$50
Set of Apple Lane, First Edition, Ballastor's Barracks		$46,29
Set of Apple Lane, First Edition, Snake Pipe Hollow, First
    Edition							$52
Set of Broken Tree Inn, Hell Pits of Nightfang			#30
Set of Militia & Merceneries, Ballastor's Barracks, 		
    Creatures of Chaos						$50
Set of Plunder, Gateway Bestiary, Creatures of Chaos		$50
Set of Plunder, RuneMasters, RQ issue of the Dungeoneer		$50

Special RQ Items:

Home of the Bold, Complete Set					$180
King of Sartar Draft						$16
Log of Sandy Peterson's Campaign				$105
RuneQuest Buttons						$24
Staffordian Maps of Colymar Lands, God Learner Myth Maps, etc	$102
Strangers in Prax Draft						$37
Sun County, Signed						$30

Other Items:

Divine Right							$45,25
Dragon Pass, First Edition					$60
Call of Cthulhu, Third Edition (GW)				$16
Elric Boardgame, First Edition					$19
Lords of the Middle Seas					$9
The Pendragon Campaign						$12
Pendragon Noble's Book						$10
Perilous Encounters						$17,17
RingWorld Companion						$13,12
StormBringer, First Edition					$15
SuperWorld (books only)						$7
Thieves' World							$10

Magazines:

Different Worlds #1						$70
Different Worlds #4,16,18,26,27,38,41,43			$22
Different Worlds #8,9,14,15,17,29				$30
Different Worlds #16,20						$13
Different Worlds #22 (RQ Special Issue)				$50
Different Worlds #24 (the Mostali Issue)			$19,17
Different Worlds #2-21,23-25,27-28				$105
White Dwarf #19,40,51						$22
White Dwarf #14,30,54, Best of White Dwarf Scenerios		$17
Wyrm's Footnotes #5						$54,42
Wyrm's Footnotes #6						$70
Wyrm's Footnotes #7						$60
Wyrm's Footnotes #8						$65
Wyrm's Footnotes #9						$50
Wyrm's Footnotes #10						$60
Wyrm's Footnotes #11						$50?
Wyrm's Footnotes #12						$40
Wyrm's Footnotes #13						$40,23
Wyrm's Footnotes #14						$27

I personally spent nearly $400 at the auction.  Wyrm's Footnotes are
expensive!

OTHER ITEMS FOR SALE

Several other interesting things were for sale at RQ-Con.  Among them:

CODEX #1: The first issue of an interesting new magazine.  It contains
lots of info on Pavis and the Rubble, written by Mike Dawson, Martin
Crim and others.  It's really well done, and I'd suggest that everyone
get a copy.  You can get more information by mailing to:

	codexzine@aol.com

THE GLORIOUS REASCENT OF YELM: A draft of a work in progress, this 82
page book contains Stafford's notes on the mythological history of the
Solar deities.  It's really quite amazing.  I don't know about the
continued availability of tGRoY, but I'm sure it'll be announced here.
If you can get a copy, do.

That's about it for the Issaries elements of RQ-Con.  If I get the
time tomorrow, I'll write up some notes on the Wisdom of the Grey
Sages.

A NOTE ON RQ-CON 2

RQ-Con 2 will be held in the San Francisco Bay Area in January of
1995.  We'll be featuring the latest and greatest LARP out of England,
How the West was Won.  If you'd like to get on the mailing list for
RQ-Con 2, just drop me a line (appel@erzo.berkeley.edu).

Shannon

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From: appel@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon Appel)
Subject: RQ-Con Report I: The Issaries Grand Market (Addendum)
Message-ID: <199401180739.XAA00120@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Date: 17 Jan 94 15:39:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2815

Cleaning out my bag, I realized that I missed one thing on my list of cool
stuff available at RQ-Con:

RUNEQUEST III PERFECT BOUND: The reprint of the third edition rules is
finally available.  It should be out in shops in a week or so.  It's just
a reprint of the 5 RQ III books in a perfect bound, but I thought it was
worth buying just for the convenience factor.  I _think_ it cost $25, although
I don't recall for sure.

Shannon

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