From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 21 Jan 1994, part 2
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Morocanth eating humans
Message-ID:
Date: 20 Jan 94 11:08:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2841
Allan Henderson in X-RQ-ID: 2790
>Subject: morokanth don't eat people
>I am afraid that I must disagree with Mr Peterson on the issue of
>morokanth eating people, he says
>> it's not "cannibalism" to eat a
>> human if you're a morokanth -- a social faux pas at worst.
>I believe that the Waha covenant will apply more stronly than breaking
>it to be considered only a faux pas. In Borderlands there is a
>description that morokanth put a herdman than may be a person out to
>live on grass for a week if they thrive then they eat them, if they
>don't then presumably they convert then to herd men and then eat them.
>The important point is that they change them to herd men first.
>The borderland write up of morocanth is very good.
I too think that to eat a sentient Praxian is more than a faux pas for any
Morokanth. Note that I say Praxian, i.e. a sentient member of Waha's
covenant. Non-Praxians are fair game, in all probability also Sun Domers,
Pavisites, Pol Joni and Oasis people (although the latter are more useful
as life herd members, i.e. they can be "milked"). Non-Praxians first have
to prove (individually) that they qualify as human and not as herd beast,
from a Morokanth point of view.
>The praxian nomads know about herd men, but although they know the
>difference between herd men and humans it is still a good excuse to
>raid another tribe. I doubt if any initiate or above in Waha would even
>consider a herd man to be human, certainly no closer to human than an
>ogre is.
In Pavis "mock-pork" (i.e. herd man) is one of the common meats in the
market. One wonders: do the Sartarite-, Sun Dome- or Lunar-descended
citizens know or care?
>Ogres, herd men, humans they all look the same but they come in three
>distinct flavours (so to speak), only one of which is edible :
>ogres being vile chaos creatures are not fit to eat
>humans are forbidden to eat
>herd men, god actively encourages the eating of these stupid creatures
With humans defined as those people living on the herds (either by herding
or hunting). Those humans who eat grain ("just another word for grass,
really") show clearly that they are herd men an may be eaten - again,
from a Morokanth point of view.
>> I find highly colorful nonhumans far more interesting than the
>> usual D&Dish "humans in a furry suit".
>I agree, but breaking the convenant of Waha, and eating people turns
>morocanth into "monsters, but without the thumbs". Having them as an
>alien tribe with morals and strict social structures allow them to be
>feared through ignorance yet respected for their independant culture
>by the PCs.
Not more than the cannibal cult. If you ask any non-Morokanth Praxian,
he or she will happily agree that the Morokanth are monsters, and probably
add the story how they cheated when Waha let the peoples and herds draw
lots.
How do the pygmie tribes of Prax and the normal-sized humans (I know that
Bison and Rhino riders tend to be larger than Sables or Zebras, but the
difference is neglectible compared to Impala or Bolo Lizard riders) interact
and interbreed? I mean, do slave female humans among the Impala get
impregnated, and counted as tribe members afterwards? and vice versa with
slave female pygmies among the human tribes? And can the "sodomy" between
humans and herd men produce offspring, and will that be man or beast?
Geoff Gunner in X-RQ-ID: 2791
>Doesn't the taboo against cannabalism stem from the ability to emote with what
>you're eating ? With humans there's also the problems of disease transmission,
>but between species this shouldn't be a problem.
>SO the question boils down to: Does species 'A' have the cultural makeup to
>empathise, and feel uncomfortable, about eating 'B' ?
>Thus - Trolls will eat everything.
> Dwarves eat ritual enemies 'Elves - not life as we know it'
> Morocanth - I can see them in private eating other races, but as they
> make a bigger effort to fit in than Trolls, public acts
> of sentinent consumption are probably rare. But really they
> don't give a damn. Just keeping up with the Jones's.
In the Biturian Varosh tory about the visit of the Paps the Morokanth are
numbered among the races of darkness. The way I understand this, eating
sentients is a darkness trait, most blatantly expressed in trolls and giants.
The ogres seem to be men of darkness in this respect, too, but then the chaos
era was known as darkness.
Yum. (oops)
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: guy.hoyle@chrysalis.org
Subject: MOSTALI & MAL
Message-ID: <9401201015.A5739wk@chrysalis.org>
Date: 20 Jan 94 09:15:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2842
Has anyone noticed the strange similarities between the religions of the Dwarfs
and the Malkioni?
1) Both revere a god who does not personally interact with them (Mostal for the
Dwarfs, the Invisible God for the Brithini and other Malkioni)
2) Both use sorcery rather than divine/rune magic
3) Both believe (apparently with some validity) that they will not age or die
naturally if they follow the tenets of their faith exactly, and do not question
the validity of their dogma.
4) Both practice a caste system that, in its purest forms (e.g.the Brithini,
Octamonic Dwarfs) is absolutely inflexible.
5) Both cultures are isolationist (perfectly true of the Brithini, but not so
true of the Hrestoli; true of most Dwarf sects)
6) Both are plagued with heresies and internal schisms.
My hypothesis is that the Invisible God and Mostal the Maker are one and the
same being, worshipped in similar fashion by two different cultures. Anyone out
there agree? Disagree?
Guy Hoyle (aka Mulborth)
guy.hoyle@chrysalis.org
PS I'm going to RQ-CON II! Try and stop me THIS time! Hahahahaaaa!
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From: apbanut@aol.com
Subject: Dwarf Food
Message-ID: <9401201224.tn232384@aol.com>
Date: 20 Jan 94 17:24:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2843
>Dwarfs & Elves: true, these guys eat one another (and trolls, too),
>but only at special ceremonies or else when it is unbeknownst to them
>(dwarf canned food). I wouldn't call them cannibals despite this
>obscure secret ritual.
Still spreading viscious romors about the Dwarves? Canned dwarf food is _NOT_
precessed humans, dwarves, and elves. It is merely resembles that in form,
but is actually much lik
e spam, made from various animals.
-Dwarven Public Relations Department
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From: eco0kkn@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
Subject: Lunar paperwork cost boldhome
Message-ID: <9401201758.AA23444@cabell.vcu.edu>
Date: 20 Jan 94 17:58:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2844
Alas, I must concur with John Medway and others woh say that the
bumbling lunar bureaucracy caused the loss of Boldhome.
I playe d Harvar Ironfist, the Duke of Far Point (raised to Prince of
the FAr Place during the game).
After hearing a rumor that my firm allies, the lunars, were having or
anticipating some trouble with the woad boys in the next few days, I
arranged for myt cousin, who commmanded a large army unit in the
south, to send about 300 of his men on "extended patrol" toward
Boldhome, where they might be useful if things started getting bad.
Well, to no ones surprise, things did start getting bad. The city was
sealed, and martial law declared by the Lunars. In conversatoin with
Gordius the Provost, I offered to bring those loyal men into the city
to help calm things down. Gordius said that sounded fine, but he
wanted to run it past his generals first.
With rioting in the streets, I naturally felt that I had to take my
forces to the Sun Temple, where I could no go wandering off to llook
for a lunar general's permission. Time passed, the REbellion broke
out in earnest in the city, and precious moments flew by. (Time was
accellerated in the game, so a whole week could pass in the evening
of the game.) Finally a general happend to pass the Temple of the
Sun, and I got permission to have the gates opened for the 300 LUNAR
TROOPS outside.
Lo an dbehold, as the gates opened and the unit started marching in,
skybulls and tribesmen swarmed out of the hills to attack the gate,
and the city had to be sealed up again before the troops could enter.
If they had been let in earlier, I doubt that the bad guys would have
been out there.
The reall high point of th eevening for me was when Hwalthippus,
Lunar Guardian of the Flame of Sartar, offered me a tour of the Flame
Altar in exchange for the paltry sum of 2 "super" Lunar coins. (HE
apparantly had some bad gambling debts outstanding.)
Hwalthippus saw me as a strong ally, sonce I had been seeking his
approval and sponsorship into Yelm and Moonson Imperator, so I
suppose he thought I was a good choice for a tour. What he didn't
know is that Harvar has the blood of Sartar through a distant
realtive, and also believed that an ancient prophecy suggestted that
Harvar might be able to unify Sartar personally.
Soooo.....With just me & him up there, & my thanes guarding the only
entrance, I tried to invoke the Flame. It didn't quite work, but it
worked better than for Terertain, by most accounts, and Hwalthippus
tried to Sunspear me, but it didn't kill me. Lunar soldiers arrived &
carted me off before the Provost....
...who stood up from his conference with the Royal Librarian and a
Lunar Scribe (who was in my employ) and congratulated me on the good
news that the librarian had found evidence that I was indeed of Solar
descent, and that I could therefore look forward to joining th ecult
of Yelm. Provost Gordius shook my hand, congrats all around, and then
I startyed telling everyone who would listen just how important it
was that Hwalthippus be brought here ASAP.
Once Hwalthippus arrived at the Lunar HQ< I mentioned how unfortuante
it would be if the Provost found out that he was taking money to let
sons of Sartar up on to the Flame Altar, and from there things
smoothed right out.
Various Lunar military types camse by, and were uniformly surprised
to see me out on the balcony at my ease, rather than in the jail.
INfact, while waiting for everything to smooth out, I concluded my
fealty arrangements with the Ambassoador of the King of Tarsh, who
apparantly hadn't heard anything of my stunt, or at least wasn't
worried about it!
That was the most fun for me. The interesting side effect of the
attempt was that suddenly, I had much higher status in the rebel
community, which needed to figure out what I was up to. The getting
released part really confused them.
Gret fun for the whoel weekend. My congratulations to DAvid Cheng et
al. and the whole Home of the Bold bunch. I look forward to Hthe West
was One, which I hope will be lacking in any particular bias one way
or another. It seemed pretty clear that HotB was intended for the
Lunars to lose. It makes a better story that way, after all.
Boy, sorry for all the typoes. My hands are freezing & I'm in a
hurry!
M>|<
---------------------
From: eosgg@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
Subject: General Waffle
Message-ID: <9401201821.AA19960@raesp-farn.mod.uk>
Date: 20 Jan 94 18:21:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2845
RQ Con sounds really good. Shall sulk for ages now. Want one in the UK. Bah.
bit of Trivia - Sandy exclaims 'by gum'. Now this is the stereotypical
exclamation of the Yorkshireman - is there something in Sandy's history that
he's hiding ? To his aquaintances - does he wear a flat cloth cap and braces,
and favour black pudding ? Dead giveaways. The truth will out.
Anyone going to write up the sum body of knowledge imparted from the Con ?
All those little secrets revealed in the Lore Auction ... drool drool.
Geoff.
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From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9401201826.AA01312@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 20 Jan 94 06:26:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2846
Here's a tidbit for everyone to use. In Chaosium-published Gloranthan
documents, we always followed this format -- a "lunar" is a coin. A
"Lunar" is a person or an adjective.
Alex (last name?) opines:
>I don't think IO [Invisible Orlanth] is a Lunar/Healed cult at all:
>I reckon it's entirely a Carmanian Thing.
I concur. It's not unique to Carmania, though. There are similar
cults in Maniria and Ralios (the Aeolian Heresy). It probably crops
up wherever Orlanth and Malkioni live nearby, with slight differences
between various groups. But I agree that it's certainly not a Lunar
thing. Let's not forget that the Malkioni are as anti-Lunar as they
can be, considering that they lack a common border. In fact, the
Malkioni and the Orlanthi are probably the two most anti-Lunar
religions in Glorantha, so Invisible Orlanth is not particularly
pro-Lunar.
>Any bets on whether 1st/2nd age Carmania had Yelm/IG worship
>combined in this way?
There was no 1st age Carmania. They were refugees from Arkat's Dark
Empire (I think) who came west to escape the God Learners and set up
their empire atop the hapless natives. The Dara Happans couldn't stop
'em because they were busy with the EWF.
Alex goes on to enquire:
>At least one city of the DH tripolis, or at a pinch, some other
>solar city in Peloria which has been lunarised.
All the cities in Peloria are more or less lunarized. It's the Way.
>The White Moon cult. ("But what are these guys _on_?")
The White Moon, I believe, is more of a belief than a cult. I don't
think that anyone is getting magic power from worshiping her. (I
personalize the White Moon as "she" because the other two moons are
female. I don't swear to be correct.)
>Lunar cult of justice. (No jokes from you unwashed barbarians,
>please.)
I don't think the Lunars have a cult of justice. Or if they do, it is
Yelm. Remember that they are technically the god of freedom, and
whatever previous customs and social mores existed in an area are
supposed to remain after Lunar domination, though no doubt
liberalized through the Goddess's influence (no more automatic death
sentences for chaotics, frex).
>Pelorian solar military cults. (i.e., not Elmal/Yelmalio.)
Yelmalio, of course, is not a central Pelorian cult, but is only a
fringe religion. Okay, here's my list of Pelorian non-Lunar military
sects: Lodril (very popular), Polaris (=Pole Star), Golden Bow
(associated with the Pent nomads, but certainly not discarded by Dara
Happans), Yelm (The Warrior is one of Yelm's aspects), Yelorna
(specialized). I imagine that most Pelorian warriors worship Dendara
or Lodril. The Dara Happans are not a militarily-oriented people, and
war gods are not as prominent in their pantheon as among the barbaric
Orlanthi.
>The Dayzatar cult. Any subcults, particularly of a monastic bent.
I have a complete writeup of Dayzatar (buried in a hard-to-get
place). I don't think he has any subcults -- heroes and spirits that
want to get associated with the distant uncaring sky do so by contact
with Ourania, his more-accessible spouse.
The entire Dayzatar cult is "particularly of a monastic bent". The
basic requirement for membership is that you must have reached Chief
Priest status in an acceptable solar cult and be ready for
retirement. You retain all your former magic and can pray to regain
its use, should you cast it, but you cannot sacrifice for any more
non-Dayzatar magic. You are in effect no longer a member of your
former cult(s). Dayzatar has no "associate" cults in the normal sense
of the word -- any cult whose Chief Priests can join Dayzatar are
considered to be "associates".
Dayzatar teaches three specialty spells (I may have the names
slightly off, here, but the effects are proper): Summon Shanasse,
Dismiss Clouds, and Compell Truth. These spells are stackable and are
remarkably hard to cast -- your chances of success are equal to the
number of points you are trying to cast. Hence, if you are trying to
cast a 10-point Summon Shanasse, you have a 10% chance of success.
Plus your magic bonus, if any.
Dayzatar isn't really a PC-type cult.
re: Humakt/Death
Just to throw more fuel on the fire, I know that Greg is a
Humakt-basher from way back and likes to annoy the cult's adherents
in play.
Newton Hughes points out:
>I thought the Borderlands books implied that all the Praxian tribes,
>not only Morocanth, kept and ate herdmen. Outsiders visiting a
>nomad camp would naturally mistake the herdmen for slaves.
This is technically true. However, think of the practical problems
involved -- herd men will enormously slow down your herd and probably
thrive on different plants than the rest of the beasts (I know they
can eat plains fodder, but impalas and bison eat different plants --
why should herd men be different?). It's obvious to me that most
human tribes don't keep herd men around any longer than they have to.
And I still adhere to my belief that most Praxians find eating herd
men about as appetizing as most Texans seem to regard sushi. (Not to
mention the fact that it's entirely possible that a given herd man
used to be a "real" person -- maybe your mother!)
---------------------
From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Correction
Message-ID:
Date: 20 Jan 94 18:58:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2847
Greg Fried here.
I have an error to confess, just to set the record straight. In the minis
events, my side won only once (our Yelmalions defeated a clan of
cattle-thieving Orlanthi and broke our way through to their lands to exact
retribution). The Tekumel battle was technically a draw -- our side was
winning unti a bunch of S'su showed up and attacked my legions by surprise.
We took care of them quite handily, but the enemy took advantage of the
situation. I did get the dart-throw prize though, since as a novice, I had
done respectably.
Rory,
Didn't mean to frighten you with my idea of conducting the battle of
Moonbroth! If such a thing WERE to be done, I would say that only the
commanders of the forces (say, 4 max per side) should participate, and
I'd make each figure represent 10 (or more) combatants. THe battle
would take place after the LARP (except that maybe some role-playing
would still happen with those traitorous Sable-riders! -- who knows
which direction their line would end up facing!). If the LARP is to
be How the West Was Won (One?), maybe that too would be conducive to a
final battle at the end....? Organizers?
GF out.
---------------------
From: n8448238@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Iza Young)
Subject: RQ/Tekumel
Message-ID:
Date: 20 Jan 94 04:14:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2848
I just logged on to this digest service, so I seem to have missed some
vital information about RQ/Tekumel, like where and how to get a copy. I
noticed that W. R. Pearse asked this very question along with others
(printed yesterday), and I saw some very timely answers, but nothing on
how to get hold of it. I assume it's here on the net and not for sale in
print. Tell me if I'm wrong or right.
On a similar note, it sounds as if rules for Vormainian Color Magic are
available in much the same fashion. Is this true, and how may I get these?
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Shield cover
Message-ID: <9401201759.AA18586@condor>
Date: 20 Jan 94 17:59:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2849
_________
Sandy sez:
>The players in my own campaign soon learned to hold their shields in
>front of their vitals as extra armor whenever archers opposed them.
Heh, this reminds me of the notorious Troll Shield Dance which involves
holding up, not one, but two kite shields while approaching Dwarven defences.
This covers 6 out of 7 locations: just listen to those Mostali minds overload
as they try to track the exposed location with their pesky repeatin' bloody
crossbows... B^)
By convention I allow shield-cover to protect even against missile crits (as
if the shot had been "parried": ie. some of the damage gets through but a lot
of it is soaked up by the shield AP) however I guess others might dispute this.
___
CW.
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: RQ-Con; warfare
Message-ID: <199401202210.AA10968@radiomail.net>
Date: 20 Jan 94 22:10:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2850
First, thanks very much to David Cheng and everyone else involved in
setting up RQ-Con!
I forgot to mention the Dart Competition. They spread a bunch of game stuff
on the floor, and people who had earned throws (I believe by being the
"winner" of a scenario) got to toss a dart from the balcony above. Whatever
their dart hit, they won. The crowd groaned if you hit "Daughters of
Darkness," or oohed and ahed if you hit "King of Sartar."
>From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
>Home of the Bold: Glorious Incompetence and Magnificent Decadence
>
>No, I don't mean David Hall and Kevin Jacklyn, when I say incompetent.
>I mean MOB and the rest of us running the Lunar High Command. We did
>have some flashes of brilliance, such as the great poll tax/vote-rigging
>scam of MOB's and Susan's and mine.
Hey, give me some of the credit for the Lunar High Command incompetence.
While I was pretty good at forcing Orlanth sympathizers to use up their
teleports, I was pretty clueless as to what was going on.
Sandy Petersen said
>Anyway, the point is that standing up and fighting "like a man" is
>not a primitive hold-over, but an invention which is apparently none
>too easy to figure out.
Right -- "primitive" people tend to engage in some sort of ritualized
boasting ("saber-rattling") to prevent a fight (this is well-handled in the
movie "Quest for Fire").
This is probably closer to the idea of counting coup -- both are ways to
prove your manhood without too much danger of anyone getting killed. (In a
PenDragon Pass game, counting coup should gain you just as much
Status/Glory as defeating an enemy.)
>Keegan points out that other
>styles of warfare, like the nomad "shoot 'em and run away" can be
>effective against the Western style.
Which is back to my problem of overly-effective nomad PCs.
>The question is: what defeats horse archers? Historically, I believe
>the answer is fortifications and light or medium cavalry.
Forts will do it, but are hardly an option for the caravan under attack.
Cavalry (in my game) frequently gets hit with enough arrows to stop it
(most mounts aren't armored).
Did anyone else fail to get part 1 of the 20 Jan Daily?