From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 22 Jan 1994, part 1
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Horses, Fire, and Deity Ravings
Message-ID:
Date: 21 Jan 94 11:24:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2859
Sandy Petersen X-RQ-ID: 2834
>anti-archery spell:
>How about a ranged Ignite on the bowstrings? It would put the kibosh
>on firing any arrows. Even if the fire was put out right away, the
>string would be weakened and probably snap.
Same problem as usual: How do you coordinate spell attacks to avoid
multiple action against some of the attackers and letting others come
unmolested?
>Joerg Baumgartner sez:
>>The alarm function is more easily obtained by a permanent market
>>spell.
>A market spell is a bad way to alarm your walls. For one thing, it
>takes a LOT of Create Market spells to cover an entire town. In
>addition, if any of your soldiers draw their swords (or bows) to
>attack an incoming foe, they're toast (attacked by the spell, just
>like an enemy).
Sorry, wrong edition of RQ - I happened to have read Biturian Varosh's
description of the troll and morokanth attack on the Paps recently. In
it, Biturian first casts his Market sell for the ceremony. Then, when the
forces of darness attack, he grabs his quarterstaff and fights back the
trolls, without getting any ill effect from his spell. Nor do the temple
guards.
>Joerg Baumgartner wonders:
>>Do we know anything about the Galanini from Ralios except the few
>>tidbits in "Dorastor Land of Doom", Elder Secrets and King of
>>Sartar, and their god Ehilm? And what does a fire god have to do
>with Hsunchen worship of horses?
>Horses are the Beast of Fire. The Galanini date from the First Age,
^^^
I don't believe that. They are beasts of fire, yes, and as such related
to birds, griffons and other celestial animals, but not particularly
associated with fire.
>before the God Learners had carefully explicated that the Hsunchen
>were an early pre-pantheonic stage of development. Unaware that they
>were supposed to only worship their own horse god, as a primitive
>Hsunchen, the Galanini ignorantly worshiped related Sky gods as well.
I don't care what the God Learners categorized against better knowledge
- after all they classified the almost urban culture of the Basmoli
(they built Hrelar Amali, right?) as Hsunchen as well - but I have read
a text (I think in Troll Pak) which stated that the 1st Age Theyalans
overthrew the horse nomads of Peloria with the help of Praxian beast
riders and Ralian non-Sun-worshipping horse riders. These latter can
only be the Galanini.
IMO, the Praxian culture is a Hsunchen Culture with the specific
addendum of riding and herding their respective phylum, and a tradition
of a common earth-mother for the beasts. Waha's covenant is the only
case I know where the cultural hero has left a mark as clearly on his
tribes, but the extremely harsh conditions of Prax and the Wastes made
this necessary.
While we're at it - how comes that Eiritha has no relation to horses in
Prax, when other beasts clearly of the sky - the ostrichs - are one of
her subjects/children. Did she sacrifice that bond (and many others)
when she revived Storm Bull in the (now) Dead Place?
Now what bugs me is that the Galanini turn out to worship the Sun
nevertheless. While even the Orlanthi horse (or rather pony) tale (KoS
p. 223) give the horse a solar connection through Elmal, and while the
Orlanthi seem to have incorporated descendants of the Dara Happan Solar
culture (the Hyaloring triarchy of clans in the Colymar Tribe), I am
somewhat reluctant to believe this Glorantha-wide cultural unity. This
seems like calling the Pelorian inhabitants or Ralian Hsunchen Warerans
after the mermaid mother of Malkion the Prophet/God, from whom the
western peoples trace descent, a God Learner over-simplification of
conflicting myths and history.
>>Did anyone else stumble about the phrase that Orlanth bathed in the
>>Flame or Fire of Ehilm when proving his sincerity before Yelm in the
>>Lightbringers Quest?
>Ehilm, Worlath, and Humct are the old Ralios names for Yelm, Orlanth,
>and Humakt. When the God Learners spread Theyalan civilization world
>wide, the Theyalan names for these gods became the standards. Hence
>Orlanth is named Orlanth practically everywhere that he is worshiped,
>no matter what the native speaker's tongue.
Let me expand this and speculate a bit. Were the Ralian Orlanthi (more
specifically their gods, or at least their worship of them) "awakened"
by Theyalan missionaries around the second century (RuneQuest Companion
- History of the Holy Country p.17, Dorastor - Land of Doom p.5ff, c.f.
Battle of Zebrawood, Cults of Terror p.16 - BTW, "liberating Peloria
from Darkness" by driving off the Sun-worshipping horse nomads), or did
the hill barbarians encountered by the Second Council in the hills
around the upper Tanier River have an Orlanthi tradition predating the
Dawn?
The different names for the major deities (makes me wonder whether
Elmal too is one of these names) indicate a long period of separation,
or the worship of a different entity covering the same function. (Nick
Brooke described the folly of the universal Indogermanic cult of
Diaus-Pitar sometime around August '93. I won't repeat his arguments.)
>However, superstitious types in Ralios, confused by the names, still
>worship Ehilm & co., usually by bizarre ceremonies and false dogmas.
>True worshipers of Yelm think of Ehilm followers much the same way as
>the ancient Jews thought of the Samaritans, who followed the same
>faith as the Jews, but did not accept the Prophets, just the Law, and
>had weird primitive addenda to the Jewish way of life.
So we'll find Ehilm worshipers in Ralios and Umathela, of rather
different creed.
>The reference to the Fire of Ehilm in Hell is the scribe's
>unwillingness to alter the name of this ancient event. He recognizes
>Yelm as the true sun god, but the oldest texts call Orlanth's purge
>the Fire of Ehilm so, by gum, so will he.
Sorry, I don't quite buy this.
First, several unrelated scribes agree in reporting Orlanth's bath in
the Flames of Ehilm - the God Learner-tainted description in Cults of
Terror (p.15), the description of the Short Lightbringers' Pilgrimage
in King of Sartar (p. 168) and Argrath's Lightbringers' Quest in KoS
(p.32) all come up with this name. I think it is unlikely that one
scribe's decision can change a name in a culture as widespread and
relying on oral tradition as the Orlanthi culture.
There is no apparent reason to change the sun god's name from Ehilm to
Yelm and not to change the name of his fire, if it was his. If it was
not, then there must be another divine incarnation of Sun and Fire
which was not slain by Orlanth, and thus a proper (because impartial)
judge.
I know this verges on the border of God Learnerism, but do the
universally acknowledged major powers (called Runes, Gods, Mythic
Dragons...) have separate entities, which locally rule over the power
and draw their own powers from this primeval power, or is there one
entity putting on different masks and names when appearing to its
worshippers? I ask this also from a non-Gloranthan perspective, since
on a RuneQuest-game world of my own I have several different Solar
deities and pantheons which have little to do with each other except
occasional conflict.
The same goes for sub-cults. Some lightbringers councils seem to have
two representatives of Orlanth, the leader (of the Rex aspect), and one
Adventurer sometimes called Vingan aspect, sometimes called Thunder
Brothers for unnamed sons (or aspects) of Orlanth.
So the question is: what things do I have to keep in mind when
designing a new cult or deity, be it for Glorantha or a generic
RuneQuest setting? What would be the interactions with existing deities
claiming the same area of expertise? Outright annihilation warfare,
like between Orlanth and the Red Goddess, mutual ignorance, like
between Genert and Pamalt, an alliance, like between Valind and Himile?
Does "possession" of the same Rune/Runic Power unify two entities? Are
Mastakos, Sartar, Ronance, Etyries, Issaries, Lokarnos, Magasta, the
Spirit of Movement, Orlanth, Pocharngo (all holders of Mobility) only
aspects of Larnste, the Mobility Rune's source? Are all deities of
communication and trade only aspects of Issaries, like Sandy said about
the God of the Silver Feet a while ago?
Regards,
Joerg "How to design a deity" Baumgartner
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: ngl28@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: "MORE ORLANTHI CELTS
Message-ID: <5548*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 21 Jan 94 17:15:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2860
A while ago I pposted some reasons why <
Date: 21 Jan 94 16:10:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2861
> From: guy.hoyle@chrysalis.org
>
> 3) Both believe (apparently with some validity) that they will not age or
> die naturally if they follow the tenets of their faith exactly, and do not
> question the validity of their dogma.
This is true only of the Brithini.
> From: eco0kkn@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
> Subject: Lunar paperwork cost boldhome
>
> Lunar soldiers arrived & carted me off before the Provost....
>
> ...who stood up from his conference with the Royal Librarian and a
> Lunar Scribe (who was in my employ) and congratulated me on the good
> news that the librarian had found evidence that I was indeed of Solar
> descent, and that I could therefore look forward to joining th ecult
> of Yelm.
And you have Greg to thank for that. Otherwise you would have been
executed for treason.
Jeff
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From: okamoto@hpcc101.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 21 Jan 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <9401211620.AA27345@hpcc101.corp.hp.com>
Date: 21 Jan 94 16:20:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2862
> From: appel@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon Appel)
>
> Q: "What is the God Learner's Secret?"
And the interesting follow-up is that Nick Brooke does *not* know the
God Learner secret! So everybody, stop bugging him about it!
> From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
>
> Stasis == Law
Incorrect. The Law Rune is a triangle.
Jeff
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From: brandon@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 21 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9401211623.AA10153@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov>
Date: 21 Jan 94 16:23:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2863
> The final fate of the Pharoah was revealed. Apparently, he was
> begining a regular HeroQuest at the start of the MoLaD tournament.
> The Lunar Empire was, of course, aware of this HeroQuest, since it
> occurred regularly, and so Jar-eel was sent to ambush his spirit in
> the Hero Plane. She took the place of one of the Red Guards in the
> Hero Plane (the Pharoah had never known who the Red Guards were
> before, or why they were there), and easily defeated the Pharoah.
> Assumedly, Pharoah was then dragged off to the Lunar Hell where Sheng
> Solaris was hidden.
>
: While the pharoah was definately defeated by the Jar-eel (the
:Red Guard) it is not clear at all the he was drug off to a Lunar Hell.
:I prefer that he escaped.
In Phil Davis's world, Lord Frederick, Sword-Priest of Humakt, and I, Draco the
Rash, found the Pharaoh on the hero plane. What we saw was this (abbreviated):
We came upon a man, hands on knees, gazing forlornly down into a tiny puddle
in an otherwise flat, grassy landscape.
"Hello, I am Draco, and this is Lord Frederick. Who are you?" I asked the
stranger.
"I'm the Pharaoh," he replied. We were astonished. The Pharaoh here?
"What are you doing?" I asked.
"Trying to get home," he replied, and motioned toward the puddle.
"Why can't you go?" I asked. "Is it too small for you?" For indeed, it looked
much too small to contain him.
"No, it's large enough, see?" We looked over into the puddle, and saw that
it looked like a huge landscape, seen from a mountaintop. "I just can't get
through it, that's all."
"Why not?" asked Frederick.
"I'll show you," said the Pharaoh, and he jumped into the puddle. Amazingly, he
began to sink into it, and it began slowly to widen and deepen to accomodate
him. Just then, however, a tall woman in red armor with drawn scimitar appeared
behind him. She swung her weapon in a terrible arc, and the man saved himself
from being cut in two only by diving to one side. The warrior vanished as
quickly as she had manifested. The puddle, now vacant, shrank to its former
size.
"See?" He said. "I can't get out in time."
I understood then why even such a powerful man as the Pharaoh was unable to
extricate himself from this place, for I recognized the warrior. "What can
we do?" I asked.
"I don't know," said the Pharaoh.
Lord Frederick, however, did. Motioning to me to stand by him, he took up a
combat position directly behind the Pharaoh. He prayed to Humakt for strength
and for magics to make his shield strong. I did what I could, although knowing
that I was no match for Lord Frederick in combat. Then, without looking over
his shoulder, Frederick said, "Jump!"
The Pharaoh jumped, just as he had before. Jar-eel appeared again with scimitar
drawn, but this time when the blade came whistling down, it was met by
Frederick's redoubtable shield. The powerful blow rocked the Sword, but shield
and man held. Jar-eel swung again with the speed of lightning, but again
the blow was parried. I saw that either stroke, directed at me, would have
cut shield, armor, and body in two, yet I would have taken that stroke if
necessary and stood ready to do so. Frederick's towering strength held up,
however, and I was spared the trial. As the Pharaoh's head vanished below the
surface of the Hero world, Jar-eel vanished and we were again alone.
Brandon
---------------------
From: teneyck@eskinews.eskimo.com (Ross TenEyck)
Subject: Humakt and Death
Message-ID: <199401211747.AA09909@eskinews.eskimo.com>
Date: 21 Jan 94 01:47:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2864
>Shannon D. Appel wrote:
>> To be a hero, you need to be close to your cult's ideals. For some
>> cults, like Orlanth, this is very easy to do. It's a much harder task
>> for others, like Humakti, however. Greg spoke of how close Humakti
>> are to death, but mentioned that he had never seen a Humakt who was
>> _really_ willing to undergo a HeroQuest that simply involved dying.
>> Yet, what would be a better way to meet the ideals of your God?
>The Humakt example has me very puzzled. I don't remember anywhere in the Myths
>where Humakt dies. Surely his role is to deliver death to others rather than
>on himself. I would agree that a Humakt should not be afraid of death. Can
>anyone add anything more of what Greg said to help me understand what he was
>trying to say.
Having played a Humakti, and given this matter some thought, this is my take
on the subject.
Humakt is not saying, "Death is good." Death is *natural*, a part of the
regular order of things. As such, it is neither really "good" nor "evil,"
except in the sense that natural things are better than unnatural (i.e,
Chaotic) things. Neither is Humakt saying that everyone should die. Face
it, this is hardly necessary. Everyone (again, without the intervention of
Chaos) *will* die, eventually.
The point of the Humakt cult is that there are good ways to die, and bad ways
to die; and the proper cultist strives to keep people from dying in bad ways.
Note that "good ways" and "bad ways" can be different for different people.
For a Humakti cultist, and for most other warriors, the preferred way to die
is in honorable combat. Farmers and other such people can quite correctly
die in bed after a long and full life, if they wish.
Bad ways to die include sickness, assassination, and, of course, being turned
into an undead. The last represents the greatest perversion of the natural
order of death, which is why Humakti hate the undead so passionately. If
necessary, a Humakti would find it his duty to kill someone cleanly rather
than allow them to suffer such a fate.
--
------------------------------------=<*>=-------------------------------------
Ross TenEyck | If I hold the sun in my hands, the flesh glows warmly red;
teneyck@eskimo.com | and dusky ruby light beats darkly delicate in fragile
Poet for Hire | lace-work veins; my arms are filled with light... -RT