From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 29 Jan 1994, part 2 Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk Subject: That wacky Solar/Lunar god-bunch. Message-ID: <9401281837.AA22742@keppel.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 28 Jan 94 18:37:27 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2928 john_medway: > According to The GLorious Reascent of Yelm ( Solar mythology - if you couldn't > guess ), the original 10 cities of Dara Happa were quite Solar. That makes sense: but what, for reference, are said cities? All the big 'uns apart from Glamour and Red Fish? > Antirius has been accused of being a Dara Happan analog of Yelmalio. > There *are* some myth patterns in common, but there are as certainly > many which are not. I've just /'d through my mailbox for references to Antirius, and I can't say they help a lot. Anyone care to give us a run-down on this cult? Is he a) a son of Yelm, and b) a god with a similar role to Yelmalio, to wit, a diety of the soldiery? > Alex Ferguson sent me a list of questions on Pelorian cults, and as I > started answering them, I thought the rest of youse guys might like > to see the results, so you could attack my views vigorously in print. Still, I claim First Blow. ;-) > Alex is quite exercised over just what the cult of LUNAR JUSTICE > would be. IMO, not everyone has such a cult. More to the point, who > settles court cases. I have three separate suggestions. This isn't necessarily more to the point at all: if there is someone who fits this role in the pantheon, even at a push, it'd be useful for my purposes to know this, even if judges and court officials often belong to (a) quite different cult(s). > To keep with the Lunar sense of balance -- how about Danfive > Xaron, the only criminal among the mothers? Sick, but not implausibly so. > Or how about using one of the Lunar Examiners? To wit, the Goddess herself being the Goddess of Justice. I can think of no firm reason why not, but I'm not very keen on this option. > the Lunar Examiners for ecclesiastical cases (common > in a theocracy like the Lunar Empire) and civil cases by the 7-judge > council. Or vice-versa. Or varying by region: is it the case that the Seven Mothers are more worshipped in the peripheral regions, or is this truer of YA? > Of course, local systems of justice would prevail wherever > they were already strong. Where they are strong and happen to suit lunar purposes: see Boldhome as a counterexample (local system of Jurors ignored, Solar Is it consistent with what is Known about the Lunar pantheon that there _could_ be a minor diety with a Justice function, at least simply to act as Presiding Spirit in (some?) Lunar courts? Or would such a god necessarily be a big enough Shake that it would already have _necessarily_ have been Known to date? > PELORIAN MILITARY CULTS > POLE STAR: This is my working option, but I have next to no info on the cult. Is there anything squirreled away on him in some obscure location? > GOLDEN BOW: I imagine that only career > soldiers worship him in Peloria, making his cult rather like that of > Yanafal Tarnils. Begging the question... Another topic, just to make this message the absurd length you all know and loathe: Yanafal Tarnils: what _is_ the structure of this cult? I've seen more cult rank titles than you could shake a fist at: Rune Lord, Iron Lord, Sword, you name it. Is this a direct Humakt analogue (Initiate -> Sword), or more complicated? And oes the structure of the cult as worshipped as one on the Mothers differ from the cult as a separate entity? > re: DAYZATAR > > Hm. Isn't Solar rebirth dogma supposed to say you can only be > >_born_ into the Dayzatar cult, having been a virtuous Yelm > >worshipper in the one before? > Sort of. Like many other "previous existence" rules, it works out as > circular logic. Well of course. The point I was pondering was: is it nececcary (or indeed even _possible_) to have a `reincarnation step' between being a Yelm guy, and being a D. guy? > You may claim this is rather specious reasoning -- I concur. There is > some evidence that in the First Age, Dayzatar monks WERE hereditary > only.You mean some Dayzatar doods actually have __sex__! Shocker. I certainly didn't think it should be hereditary: I'd envisaged some sort of entirely abitrary qualification to determine sufficient Holiness. Scouring the land for the Holy Child who'll become the next and cornball stuff like that. Having Dayzatar as a catch-all retirees cult seems dubious to me. Yelm already has Yelm the Elder, and are other Solar cults Ellevated enough to supply the D. cult with members? And I'm particularly dubious about Yelmalio -> Dayzatar... Are they ever worshipped in the same area? Would the D. cult touch Yio with a 18' pike? I repeat my gripe about Hector in _Sun County_ at this point, for all the good it will do. > But now the status is available to any good priest. And the _only_ route to D. membership is this, retirement from a Solar cult? > I was with Greg when we worked out the nature of the Pelorian Earth > religion, and it was clear to us then that Gorgorma had to be the > demon that mothered Yara Aranis. > If that be a "Greg" so be it. It Has Been Gregged. Amen. (As one of the people previously confused as to this point, let me state: It Works for me. And no, I have no idea if this is `really' a Greg or not.) Alex Ferguson. --------------------- From: chaosium@netcom.com (Chaosium) Subject: dcredo Message-ID: <199401281923.LAA05516@mail.netcom.com> Date: 28 Jan 94 03:23:15 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2929 CREDO Errata by Greg Stafford Here is a provisional errata (January 26, 1994) based upon questions received from various sources. I am responding in part to questions asked, and answering questions which are already given in the text. Q: Are Patriarchs treated as Bishops? Or are they immune to cards and events that effect bishops? A: See page 6, col 2, 10. Anytime a card says Bishop, it means Bishops and Patriarchs; if Patriarch, it means only Patriarchs. Q: When you draw a new Article and put it on your display, do you put it into any empty slot? Could it be any slot, perhaps bumping another article to a new location? A: Place it in any blank spot. Once placed, Articles may not be moved on the display. Q: What are the wins and losses when a double article (1&2, for example) is passed? A: When a multiple doctrine is passed, it takes up BOTH slots. In this case, everyone who does not have the article loses for BOTH articles on their own display, but whoever's Article was passed collects for only ONE doctrine being passed. Likewise, if the double doctrine is rejected, the holder of it loses only once. Q: When I "Take" a flock, do I rifle through my opponent's hand or just accept his largest Flock? A: Just ask for his biggest flock, and Take it. I thought p 2, col 2, para 10, last sentence, covered this. Q: I play an Event which allows "Seculars May Persecute." Whose Seculars? How many times (once per Secular?) Who chooses what to Remove? A: Persecution is basically an act of revenge. A result of Persecute is exacted only once, not once per Secular. The player who is doing the Persecution exacts his revenge by choosing which cards to Remove. If you failed a Proselytize, for instance, your attempted "target" may Persecute (if he has a secular in that half of the empire). Q: I am holding a duplicate of my own Article, which is Refuted by a Church Father. Can I then replace my lost Article with the one in my hand? A: No. See page 6, col 2, para 5. I thought that you might be able to replace it anyway, perhaps by using your own Church Father. However, the designer and developer were quite adamant on this point. Q: When does the Emperor card come out? A: With the deal. Otherwise, treat him as a Secular in every way, except that it is placed Aside when eliminated so that it can be re-entered with an Event card. Yes, this means that there may be no emperor, which gives everyone quite a hand when they begin to negotiate. Q: The IN THIS SIGN CONQUER card says that the church helped the emperor to a great victory and they can take a single secular from anyone. Does this include the emperor? A: This includes the emperor: Constantine himself would have gained the Emperor card by playing "In This Sign Conquer" on its previous holder. The Emperor is *always* treated as a secular. Q: When one player Takes a card from another's Flock does the losing church have to display all its flock cards, or does the victor have to pick blindly, or perhaps in a "go fish" style? A: We usually stack flock cards from highest to lowest, which makes a lot of work in the game easier. In our games (and per the rules, page two, second column, penultimate paragraph), "Take" means the victor gets to pick the highest; your variant is fun and sensible and does not revolt me as a house rule. (It sometimes worries me that a couple of "One Million Flock" cards changing hands in the last round can effectively decide the game, but as I don't play it for money I'm not too bothered by this). Q: On page 2 of the rules, it says to place the dummy deck of Church Cards on the "Church Deck." But the Card Layout Guide has no "Church Deck." A: Oops, we had used "Office Cards" as a catch-all phrase for "everything in the Church Deck that isn't Flock", and it crept in the final version by mistake. Use the "Office Deck" space for the "Church Deck," and if you keep it covered by a deck of cards then nobody need ever know of our error. Corrections to Text: Page 2, col 1, Step 2. You MUST use as many of the dealt Articles as possible. You may discard only those which have a duplicate Article. Page 2, Col 2, Para 8, first sentence. Should say: It is dealt out equally among the players and... Page 6, col 1, add to end of first Paragraph: "Players must use as many Article cards as possible; only duplicates may be discarded." THE CARDS Correct the following cards to be "Play Immediately." (Regrettably, the software skipped a layout Return line someplace.) Julian the Apostate Plague In West Plague in East Clarification for Regency If the Empress card is in play, the Emperor card goes to whoever has her card. If there is no Empress in play, the Emperor goes to whoever plays the card. -- ************************************************************************* * an eternity of endless space * Omnes rumores sunt veri * * a day of wind and rain * Toto kansoseum non est cognito * ************************************************************************* Chaosium Inc, 950-A 56th St. Oakland, CA 94609 * 510-547-7681 chaosium@netcom.com --------------------- From: mabeyke@batman.b11.ingr.com (boris) Subject: Basmoli?? Message-ID: <199401281939.AA03555@batman.b11.ingr.com> Date: 28 Jan 94 19:39:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2930 Okay, I give up. Maybe I'm overlooking something obvious, but I can't find the reference. In the ongoing "Praxian are/are not Hsunchen" discussion, there have been several references to "Hrelar Amali". Could some better educated Gloranthan scholar please tell me where this is discussed, please? Thank you. ----- (*) ZZ [] (.) @ e K| o8- |> oK <>< )o 3 8 <| Two heads are better than one. Thanatar proverb. Boris |><| +- (| >- .: K * =|= <- (O) ( ) (o) (|) X- --------------------- From: carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink) Subject: GRoY, and Lunar Magic Message-ID: <199401281954.AA17336@panix.com> Date: 28 Jan 94 09:54:15 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2931 malcolm109@aol.com writes: R>I just finished reading the Glorious Reascent of Yelm, and I have to say that >I'm kinda confused. I hope others more enlightened can help me out. R>What confuses me is that while Yelm, Lodril, Lokarnos, Dendara, and Pole Star >are mentioned, the majority of the book is composed of the stories of >countless other gods that we've never seen before. This doesn't bother me, >but I can't tell wether or not all these other minor gods are currently >worshiped in the Lunar Empire or the Triopolis since the ReAscent is a 1st >age source. We don't know. :-) However, Kargzant is still worshipped as "Yu-Kargzant" by the Grazelanders, and (I deduce) the Pentans. What I'd really like to see is the Kralori version of these legends. Does anyone else think that Shargash is Umath and/or Orlanth? After all, Umath is a child of the Sky. jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway) comments on Lunar Magic: R>I don't like it that only a very tiny number of folks have this ability. >This may be a memory failure, but weren't the Seven Mothers allowed these >manipulations in CoP? I'm afraid it's a memory failure. And I do like that only a small number of folk have the ability. --Carl --------------------- From: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller) Subject: hot lead Message-ID: <01H87ZOZEO3M8Y555T@wharton.upenn.edu> Date: 28 Jan 94 10:58:14 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2932 Is "eat hot lead" considered a blessing or a curse by Zorak Zorani? whoah, +++++++++++++++++++++++23 Loren Miller internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu "Enough sound bites. Let's get to work." -- Ross Perot sound bite --------------------- From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) Subject: Humakt Message-ID: <9401282226.AA02188@sonata.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 28 Jan 94 12:26:11 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2933 >I missed this discussion at the Con, but there is one thing you may be >a bit off on. I don't think it's "disregard for death", but instead great >reverence for death, which is the Humakti hallmark. >As you went on to state, ( reworded ) when fated to die, die, when not, don't. >This doesn't mean that any of them look forward to death. It is the heaviest >*duty* of this already fairly heavily duty-bound cult. >Also don't forget that not every cult-member is really all that devout. >Doubtless there are some who joined because of peer, or other social >pressure. The following summarizes my opinions on Humakt/Humakti. It also explains the fact that Yanafal Tarnils is more popular than is Humakt among the Lunars (other than his Seven Mothers status, of course). To wit: 1: It has been established on several occasions that a given deity in Glorantha may have several different aspects, depending on place of worship, local culture et cetera. 2: There are Broo Humakti. 3: Humakt's runes are death, truth, AND death (again). 4: Greg Stafford has stated (for whatever it's worth) that the Humakt writeup in ToTRM is the "kinder, gentler" Humakt of the Sartarites and their relatives. He also states that the prohibition vs. death duels among Humakti may not exist in the Holy Country. Okay, where am I getting with all of this? What a proper Humakti is depends entirely on WHERE that Humakti is (or more, accurately, where that Humakti came from and joined the cult). In the Pavis region, Humakti are basically the US Marshall of the Old West--tough, grim fighters for right and honor, unafraid to deal or be dealt death when the situation demands it, but still adhering to a strict code. In Dorastor, Humakt took a different aspect. There he is DEATH first and foremost, death with honor but DEATH, nonetheless. He is the inescapable and terrible TRUTH of DEATH that haunts all beings and claims all things. I am of the opinion that this aspect is not just Dorastor's but is the more commonly known aspect of Humakt throughout Carmania (Dara Happa). I allow this to influence my Pavis campaign a great deal. The Lunars were quite surprised to find out how similar the southern Humakt was to Yanafal Tarnils. They were used to a terrible, grim being, devoid of mercy, devoid of pity (Lord Death on a Horse???). They did not consider Humakt an "evil" as they would Thanatar, since Humakt and his followers were at least trustworthy, if scary bastards. All of a sudden, they find these barbarians running around making Humakt the epitome of loyalty, honor, courage, justice, etc. Furthermore, Humakti doctrine in the south was a good deal more similar to Yanafal Tarnils doctrine than was the northern Humakt's. The result: Duke Sor-Eel is attempting to recruit Humakti, not necessarily to Yanafal Tarnils, but to the Lunar cause. Anyway, that's a sort of brief on my opinions of the subject. ---------------------