Bell Digest v940207p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 07 Feb 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Red Moon and Glowline
Message-ID: <940205102707_100270.337_BHB4-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 5 Feb 94 10:27:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3030

Joerg recently posted:

> I'll add my worry to Nick's: If the cycles of the moon are made
> invisible by the glowline effect, how does Lunar cyclical doctrine
> enter the populace's conscience? Or does Lunar philosophy actually
> say: "everything goes in cycles, only we can stay up in cycle all
> the time"?

I'll stick by what I believed (and posted) last summer.

The Glowline is not the limit of visibility of the Red Moon, which can be 
seen across most of Glorantha. Sandy, is she visible from the Pamaltelan 
plains? I'd have thought not, with mountain ranges immediately to the north 
more likely than not blocking her from sight (she'd be languishing on the 
obscured horizon). This replaces the peculiar narrative on approaching the 
Glowline in "Cults of Prax".

Within the Glowline, the phases of the moon are visible. There is, however, 
a red "corona" or "moon-ring" or "halo" effect that can be seen around the 
Red Moon, whatever phase it may be in. Thus the Dying and Black moons look 
like a (less dramatic) solar eclipse in the sky, with streaming magical 
energies coming from an invisible black body.

Outside the Glowline, there is no such effect. The Dying or Black moon is 
invisible except as an occluding object; the Crescent moons hard to see.

   [Later] I see David Dunham has just reposted this theory, and
   Greg has more-or-less confirmed it. Ho hum. I'll send it anyway...

The Lunars certainly don't claim to stay "up in cycle" all the time -- the 
Third and Fourth Wanes would disprove any such claim. They claim to be able 
to cope with the changing cycles and bounce back from what others would see 
as defeat, not to be immune from their effects.

If you want your phased map of the Lunar Empire, take a photocopy from the 
Genertela Book (the map with cities is the best for this). Draw a straight 
line from the centre of the Crater through the city of Blessed Torang. This 
is the "Windsday Sunset" line, when the Red Moon goes to Full phase at that 
moment. Fill in the other thirteen lines (roughly 26 degrees apart) with a 
protractor and all due care. The next one clockwise from Torang is Fireday 
Sunrise, and so on around. You will see that in Balazar, Dragon Pass and 
Dorastor it is still true that "Full Moon is on Wildday" -- the phase just 
ends at sunset in Balazar, and begins then in Dorastor...

DON'T let this ruin your games by creating clock-watching, etc. If you're 
somewhere in the middle of a sector, probably the Lunar muezzins only call 
changing phases at Sunrise and Sunset. If you're very near a line, go by 
whatever the largest local town is calling. But players of Lunar magicians 
have had enough problems up to now (e.g. no rule has ever said at what time 
of day the phase changes) that this will hardly add to them.

While I'm on the calendar, 294 is the number of days, Joerg. Make for 
rather a boring Gods Wall, wouldn't it?

Kuri posited:

> I'm very interested in Dragonewts and Dragon Magics.

> I think there must be some non-Dragonewt cults/societies/tribes that
> have Dragon Magics from E.W.F. in Dragonpass/Prax. (Pavis was a Hero
> of E.W.F. so Cults of Pavis must have some)

Well, it's hard to say. The EWF seems to have closed off most peoples' 
access to Draconic powers when it was betrayed by the Dragonewts. Notably, 
the Path of Immanent Mastery (that Jrusteli/Kralori imitation of the EWF) 
was not affected -- must have been talking to different dragons. But they, 
of course, do not belong in Dragon Pass.

On the other hand, we *know* that Prince Argrath is resurrecting the old 
magics of the EWF at this very moment. And I find it extremely tempting to 
have some old shaman wandering around the Storm Hills spouting Merlin's 
lines from Excalibur -- "Look into the Eyes of the Dragon!" and all that.

The problem with Dragon magic is that it's inexplicable. As used by the 
Dragonewts, there is no restriction on the amount that can be cast by any 
individual able to cast it. Just damages their spiritual progression, is 
all. Until RQ gets good enough Personality Trait rules to handle that, I'd 
be very careful about letting Dragon magic out into the hands of players.

I believe Sandy had some rules on trait rolls or changes for Dragonewts 
employing Dragon magic at one point, but cannot remember the gist of them.

If you wanted to have an EWF relict tribe somewhere in the Pass, probably 
cannibalising the Path of Immanent Mastery would get you a workable and 
game-balanced set of spells and powers. I'd be against heavy EWF magics in 
Pavis until someone does something *very big* to reawaken the old city. 
Though since reading Mike Dawson's "Codex" I am becoming more and more 
confident that some such event may be in the offing...

At present the Cult of Pavis has no access to Dragon magic, *as far as we 
know*. But: can it be pure coincidence that the old city was liberated by 
the Dragonewts' Dream? And who can explain *that* particular event?



Subject: Einstein on the Beach
Message-ID: <>
Date: 6 Feb 94 09:49:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3031

Chris Pearce's sig:

>Chris Pearce --
>I was in this prematurely air-conditioned supermarket and there were all these
>aisles and there were these bathing caps you could buy that had these kind of
>Fourth of July plumes on them that were red and yellow and blue and I wasn't
>tempted to buy one but I was reminded that I had been avoiding the beach.

One of the most mesmerising 6 hours of my life was spent at this opera,
staged at the Melbourne International Festival 2 years ago.  Trevor Ackerly
was the only friend game enough to go, and we had the *best seats* (the
ones the royals get if they ever come).  Thanks for bringing back the

Alex F. writes:

> RQ Con Down Under will be held in Melbourne, the locus of RQ in Oz.  

>>I wonder if it rivals London as Biggest RQ City in the World?  Any guesses
>>or other contenders?

As London the city has almost the same population of our whole country, I'll
go for London over my own fine city any day!

Keep those questionnaires coming, especially Aussie gamers!




From: (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <>
Date: 5 Feb 94 04:04:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3032

Hey, welcome Japan! It's about time we got someone posting from a  
REAL island, instead of these pathetic Aussies and Brits. 

Mamoru Kurihara says:

>I think there must be some non-Dragonewt cults/societies/tribes
>that have Dragon Magics from E.W.F. in Dragonpass/Prax.

All the Dragon-magic using guys in the E.W.F. were wiped out by the  
dragonewts and trolls a little before the Dragonkill War of 1100.  
However, that doesn't meant that some of the dragon techniques were  
not revived in later years. Certainly Argrath uses dragon magic, a  
dragon unearthed itself to start the Hero Wars, and we know that lots  
and lots of dragon magic is still being used in the far east  

re: RQ-Con Australia
>Maybe Sandy could be enticed down? Or maybe not.
For a plane ticket and couch to crash on, I'd put myself at the mercy  
of the Australian folks. However, I understand that a small Con may  
not be able to afford two GoH tickets, and it's clear that Greg would  
be a greater draw. So I'll be completely in sympathy with RQ Con Down  
Under if you guys can't put out for me. 


From: (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Red Moon, chained Sun, and Gloranthan Index
Date: 5 Feb 94 18:04:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3033

Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 3025

>Bryan said:
>> This is why I react with irritation to people who bring up inaccess-
>> ible stuff ... when somebody says "Ah, what about Kubizhansky's work in
>> 1984?" you are permitted to ask in what journal it appeared, what pages,
>> what volume, and then it is usually not too difficult a matter to get a
>> reprint and/or translation. However, when somebody brings something up
>> in such a way on this list, the option is NOT open to me...

>Why not? I'm happy to answer questions about sources, and reprint the 
>relevant parts. Why not try it some time?

While we're a it, I'm still working on a Gloranthan Master Index. If there 
is interest, I can try to upload the current version at soda..., but 
it still is under construction, and some 420 kByte long without any 

How is the copyright infringement situation WRT reprinting out of print 
information on a no-profit base?


David Dunham in X-RQ-ID: 3026

>Roderick Robertson wrote:
>>   I'm not so sure that Kargzant *has* the movement rune anymore - He 
>>was chained by Orlanatus, and the sun no longer careens around the sky. 
>>Perhapse this cut down on other movement abilities of the Nomads (Could
>>the Pentans fly before? Did Kargzant have Teleport type powers?) Gotta 
>>re-read the GRoY to figure out which group had the Bird-Cavalry.

>I derived the Movement rune in part from "Kargzant was a being who was
>never happy in one place," and from the reference to the "Wandering Sun."
>Also, this makes Yu-Kargzant runicly different from Yelm.

>Actually, I think he was chained by Hyalor, but that's speculation. He
>still moved in the sky after being chained.

Why should his descendant chain the sun? Ok, he chained a member of the 
sun's family, the horse.

Who was Hyalor, anyway? Was he a Pentan nomad chieftain, or an 
Orlanthi hero adopted by the solars (my nagging doubt)?

In my unofficial write-up, the Aeolians believe that Yelm is chained to 
his chariot, and that the chariot is stuck in the rails Time laid out.


Greg Stafford (!) in X-RQ-ID: 3027

>I twitched on some of the material in RQD today.

>REgarding the changing moon inside the glowline:
>I regret this statement, and may change it. It began as a game convention for
>WB&RM, and was carried over directly into RQ. But when I visualize the moon
>inside the Glowline, I see it in phases. It is a little weird from directly
>or near-directly below, of course. 
>The most popular theory right now is that a Darkness Sun rotates around the
>crimson orb, casing a shadow upon it. I think this is true, myself.

Once again: How high does the Moon hang? This would (straight movement of 
light assumed, which we know is wrong, 'cause the ways of the Sun are bent) 
tell us where the phases start getting muddled. Given the circular expanse 
of the Silver Shadow Sultanate (Satrapy?), this seems to be the area of 
abnorm phases.

To avoid One-True-Worldsim, let's collect some statements from Gloranthans:

"The moon is always full, she only looks into different directions."
(allegedly said by Icilius Overholy)

"Darkness protects the world from the chaotic glow half the time, creeping 
around the globe of the moon to keep its influence from gathering in one 
place. The glowline thwarts this effort. Because Light has submitted to 
Lunar rule, half the time Chaos emerges unhampered."
(A Dagori Inkarth mistress troll after speaking to Bina Bang)

"Another Crimson Bat, invisible, but even larger, orbits the Red Moon and 
spreads its glow. It is fed Storm gods by the Goddess."
(Allegedly told to Jojo the Bobo during dinner with the Mad Sultan)

"The red glow is the spiritual blood wrenched from the deceived Lunar 
populace. The darkness is where the Void feeds on their souls. If the 
glow stood still, all Lunar worshippers in that direction would lose their 
souls at once. Beware of the machinations of Chaos by the Lunars!"
(From a speech held by Harmast Moonhater, a demagogue in Nochet.)

"The orb of the Moon is a perfect reflection of the nature of the 
Universe. One half glows with Light, the other side of Darkness takes 
it in. As the World hangs in the Void, the Moon hangs in the world. As 
the World is of the Void, the Red Moon is of the World. From the Red Moon 
shall come the White, and once more shut out Chaos and Strife in Celestial 
(From: Lunar Cosmology, confiscated by imperial authorities from a raid on 
White Moonies)

--  Joerg Baumgartner


From: (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Da Moon
Date: 5 Feb 94 18:54:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3034

Greg Fried here.

I have one very simple question.  I forget if in the discussion of the Moon's
phases and visibility several months back we reached a concensus on whether
the Moon is visible as far away as the East Isles.  Is it?  This is of some
immediate significance to me.  My guess is that it is NOT.  It seems sensible
to me that visibility of the Red Moon and worship of the same must be roughly


From: (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Da Harappa and Dragon Magic
Date: 5 Feb 94 19:06:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3035

Chris Pearce in X-RQ-ID: 3021

>A while back I was looking at ancient history and ran across the
>Indus culture. The main cities of the Indus rivier valley were
>Mohenjo Daro and Harappa. I was struck by the similarity in sound to
>Glorantha's Dara Happa.

I had the same impression when I encountered the name first, too.

>People here are always strongly tempted to give Dara Happa an
>Egyptian culture. Could it be that the Great Green Greggie modeled
>Dara Happa after the Indus culture (of which I know blasted little)?

There are a lot of common things I can tell without knowing much 
about Harappa:

Both cultures are situated along the most important river of the region.

Both have strong urban centres from which the surrounding (inferior, from 
their viewpoint) populace is governed.

Both have problems with invading rider cultures (Pentans and Aryans) who 
in the end conquer them.


Mamoru Kurihara in X-RQ-ID: 3022

>I'm very interested in Dragonewts and Dragon Magics.

>I think there must be some non-Dragonewt cults/societies/tribes
>that have Dragon Magics from E.W.F. in Dragonpass/Prax.
>(Pavis was a Hero of E.W.F. so Cults of Pavis must have some)

There are a few.

The cult of Drolgard Dragonspeaker, a (female) Orlanthi hero, might 
still survive. An individual named Orlaront Dragonspeaker, prominent in 
upcoming events in Sartar, might well be a member of this cult.

Then there are the friendly draconic teachers detailed in Elder Secrets:
Forang Farosh residing in Tink, close to Dragon's Eye, 
Scholar Wyrm in a Heortland Lhankor Mhy temple,
and New Wyrmish, a renegade dragonewt active somewhere in Maniria (possibly 
around Ryzel).

There is doubtless evidence for draconic magics in Prax and Pavis, since 
Argrath must have aquired his Dragontooth Runners and his wyvern steeds 
(from the Pavis-Pack Cradle Scenario) somewhere around there.

These magics might not exactly resemble the dragonewt effect magic in 
RuneQuest, but certainly are draconic magic.

There was a large write-up for dragonewts in the dailies around September 
last year, as well as a report on the Dragonewts' Dream.

--  Joerg Baumgartner


From: (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: How to kill the Crimson Bat.
Message-ID: <>
Date: 5 Feb 94 11:46:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3036

Okay, it's actually pretty simple:

1:  Revive Genert.
2:  The great plenty and wealth this will give to outer Prax (the wastes)
    will increase the power and population of the tribes immensely.
3:  Once this has happened.  Summon the great Ancestral spirits and juice
    them up with all the MP and extra POW of the burgeoning populace.
4:  Use this power to summon the Storm Bull.
5:  Sacrifice half the population of the revived garden of Prax to the Storm
6:  Storm Bull then kills the bat.
7:  Remember, during this time, one must keep the Lunar Empire from finding
    out about any of this.