Bell Digest v940212p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 12 Feb 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

	[Sorry for the delay, disk trouble... -HL]

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


From: (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Handra and Pirates, Grains and Runes
Date: 11 Feb 94 11:49:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3077

Marc Willner in X-RQ-ID: 3068

>In X-RQ-ID: 3058, Joerg gives a description of his ideas of the Wolf 
>Pirates, which got me thinking about piracy on Glorantha in general. I'm
>not sure it could exist, especially if you include the more technical 
>definition of attacking ships on the High Seas.

>It is my understanding that Dormal didn't break the Curse that closed the
>seas, he merely developed a ritual that allowed a ship to circumvent
>it. That means every ship needs a Priest of Dormal to sail. Therefore a
>pirate shop must have a priest to attack another ship, also carrying a 
>priest. This seems somewhat silly, especially since it has been less than
>40 years (assuming a current date of 1621) since the ritual has been
>widespread. Has there been a schism in Dormal worship in so short a time?

Dormal's first voyage led him to Handra and the Three Step Islands. His 
second journey led him to Alatan. The Alatans (Maltans?) learned his craft 
and secret, and built the first pirate fleet after the Closing. If you 
call this a schisma, it occurred in winter 1580.

>Another point is where did the pirates learn the ritual? Did Dormal broadcast
>it to everyone?

For the answer, I can point you to Tales of the Reaching Moon 10, or to 
RuneQuest Companion.

Yes, Dormal broadcasted the ritual to anyone (I think that is how he earned 
the Issaries or Communication Rune), first to his countrymen from Holy 
Country, then to the Alatans, Handrans, Nolosians (Nolans?), Seshnegi of 
the Castle Coast, Loskalmi, Vadeli, and Ygglinga. Other captains spread 
it further to the east, and the Vadeli to the south. Somewhere at the end 
of it, someone must have taught it the Waertagi...

The Ygglinga learned about the ritual in 1583, and about 1600 Orstando 
Black Wolf's rebellion ended in the exodus of his followers and the 
settlement of Three Step Islands. Ginorth in Seshnela might have been 
settled during the cooperation between Vadeli and Ygglinga before 
Oenriko Rock (1594) shattered their might.

>Joerg also mentioned the Handran League. As the originator of the City of
>Handra (for an RQ 1 campaign), I am curious about the source, especially the
>bits about "disowned nobles or merchants" and "leading Handran families".

The only informations I had about Handra are those three sentences in 
Genertela Book ("An important trade city which is the traditional 
halfway stop between the Holy Country and Nolos. Furthermore, it is 
the outlet for trade moving south from Ralios to the coast. The city is 
ruled by a surprisingly democratic coouncil of guilds."), and several 
snippets of more or less educated guesses on the Daily and in private 
discussion concerning the Trader Princes and their Issarian church of 
the Invisible God. Several people made parallels between Handra and 
Venice, so I played that card.

Given its situation inside the river mouth, I even picture it sitting 
in a lagoon and having canals (or if you go for Flandrish rather than 
Italian parallels, Grachts). Some fantastic mix between Amsterdam and 
Venice. Am I right?

>The original Handra is a primative socialist/collectivist democracy and 
>doesn't have nobles, or for that matter, families. I suppose that a member
>of the Merchant "Guild" (the citizens who have the most contact with out-
>siders) might yearn for the luxuries of the rich and decide to abandon the 
>Handran way and join a pirate organization, calling him/herself a noble.
>Of course, without a ship or seafaring knowledge, I'm not sure what use
>the pirates would make of him/her.

The Handran League (if it exists) is little more than a formal treaty 
of friendship between the Issarian ports dotting the west Manirian 

Handra is democratically ruled by guilds. Since you are the originator: 
Who can enter these guilds? Won't Trader Princes from the surrounding 
lands (Pralorela, Bastis, New Coast) have branches of their commercial 
and poitical activities in the most important trade centre between 
Noloswal and Nochet? These were the "nobles", disgraced or dissatisfied, 
who are likely to bribe a captain of their family's retainers to head for 
Three Step Islands.

Loren Miller in X-RQ-ID: 3071

>Paul and Finula and Nick and I have been chatting off-line and the
>question got to be what kind of grains are appropriate for the various
>Grain Goddesses. Some of the possible grains would be:

>    Millet
>    Barley
>    Oats
>    Wheat
>    Maize
>    Rye
>    Rice

>And some likely legumes and other staple foods that "Grain" goddesses
>might supply would include:

>    Potato
>    Tomato
>    Peas
>    Lima Beans
>    Kidney Beans
>    and many more beans
>    Peanuts
>    Squash
>    Pumpkin

You didn't mention the "grains" mentioned in Gods of Glorantha p.40, 
which also gives a IMO at least partially wrong association with a main 
crop for each Goddess of the Land.

Also include the various sorts of cabbages, turnips, beets and roots.

I would even go a step further and dissociate the Goddess (Spirit) of 
the Land and the Grain Goddess into different aspects, if not different 
deities. King of Sartar gives in its Orlanthi Mythology Esra as the 
Goddess of barley and Pela as the Goddess of Wheat.

I' not so sure that Esra and Esrola are the same function of the Earth 
mother. Esrola seems to be a genius loci and populi, sharing her role 
with e.g. Kethaa and Kero Fin. Esra is the plant aspect only, and the 
obedient wife of Barntar. (Nick states that Asrelia is yet another 
aspect of this. Maybe the harvested crop, which has encountered death 
in the form of the sickle or hoe, while Esra is the bounty on the 
field, yet to be harvested?)

Similarly for Pelora and Pela.

(BTW: Goddess switch: Someone stated a few weeks ago that Ernalda and 
Dendara might have been switched. I think this is highly unlikely for 
several reasons:
- The switch was effected between goddesses of the land.
- This was done in God Learner territory, and through a heroquest. 
Peloria is said to have been virgin land WRT heroquesting in the early 
Third Age (CoT).
- Dendara is neither an Earth goddess, nor a goddess of the land. Her 
association to Pelora/Pela comes from marital duties rather than Earth 

>Since my new campaign will be in Carmania I'm thinking about that area.
>I'd like to say that Pela, who is the Grain Goddess in Carmania, gives
>either Rye or Oats because they're both good northern crops, but in GoG
>Seshna gives Rye and Esrola gives Oats (odd, since Oats are a northern
>crop) and Pela doesn't give any grain at all. Finula votes for Oats (I'm a
>poet!) and Paul goes for Potatoes (and again!) and I like Rye (and again!) 
>because it has the most interesting fungal colonies of any of them.

Pelora's association with maize was started by Hon-eel in the fifth 
Wane, before the main crop may well have been wheat.

Since the Carmanians came from Fronela, the knightly lords may well 
have demanded from their subject populace to grow the grain they were 
accustomed to from their lost homes in Fronela. GoG states that Frona 
is the Goddess of Barley, but somehow the Loskalmi and Jonatings don't 
make that impression to me - they'd grow rye or wheat for human 
nourishment and oats for their horses. Plus diverse roots and cabbages 
as supplementary food for the peasants. Same for the Janubian 

The natives of Carmania might have been partly western Orlanthi, partly 
Pelorians. Since plow techniques determine the ground one can choose 
for soil, and soil determines the best crop, I think wheat for the 
Pelorians and barley for the hillmen is in order. (If the Orlanthi are 
agricultural at all - if Charg and former Worion are similar to Brolia, 
they might be primarily ranchers, not farmers. Another ancient reason 
for trouble between hills and lowland.)

>I suppose that if I can't come up with anything better I'll just make up a 
>grain, and say it tastes like Rye but is subtly different (the Carmanians 
>would say it tastes a lot better) but still susceptible to Ergot (which is 
>just too much fun for the GM to ignore). Maybe call it Kury or something 
>like that... Has anybody else worried about this kind of stuff? What did
>you decide?

"Vorala's Kiss"? There is a deity for these purposes.

On another thought: how about secondary runic associations for the main 
grains? (Primary are Plant and Earth, of course.)

Wheat might be the grain associated to the Sun, colour, form and all. 
So would grass (in Pent).

Barley with its "hairy" (sorry, none-native speaker) makes it 
especially subject to wind and Storm.

Rice is obviously associated with Water.

Maize was introduced by Hon-eel and might have Lunar ties. (I stil 
wonder how she could overcome Aldryami animosity to the Lunar Empire. 
She must have been very charming, indeed.)

Rye might be tied to Darkness: For one thing, the bread it yields is 
dark (Germans ought to know), and the second reason is its affinity to 
Ergot. After all, Mee Vorala is a darkness deity...
This would make it popular among Arkati, and probably Carmanian 
overlords (former allies of the Dark Empire) as well.

(Note that there are other mycotoxins prominent on other grains. Yellow 
rice disease must be feared in Kralorela, and the Ignorance people tend 
to get the blame for their darkness ties.)

Oats are traditional horse-fodder among sedentary riders - Orlanthi, 
Galanini and Westerners. Maybe the secondary association is earth, too 
- after all Eiritha is the Beast Mother and combines Beast and Earth.

These are the grains (except for maize, which is Lunar and new and 
therefore needn't fit) usually planted after plowing. Other grains such 
as millet or einkorn are more prominent in horticultural than in 
agricultural societies, such as the native Pamaltelan cultures, or the 
Caladraland natives.

Historically there were cultivated a number of other grains, such as 
dinkel (a traditional grain from Germany), and there are different 
sorts of wheat (which is important in the EEC "pasta war" between 
Italian and German pasta producers, where the Italians use hard wheat, 
the (south) Germans soft wheat).

Another interesting point is summer ripening and winter ripening: who 
does which?
Historically, e.g. the Baltic Sea Slavs already did both, cultivating 
rye for human needs and oats as horse fodder. So might the inhabitants 
of Galin, considered the cultic importance of horses these peoples 

Carmania with its ties to Darkness and Light would do perfectly well 
with wheat and rye, light bread and dark bread. This might even figure 
in their ancient church rituals. Rye ought to be winter harvest only, 
and wheat summer harvest only, taking the appropriate season for 
growth. They might even be known as the winter grain and the summer 
grain by the populace.

--  Joerg Baumgartner


From: MAB@SAVAX750.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK (Mystic Musk Ox)
Subject: elves
Message-ID: <9402111031.AA23152@Sun.COM>
Date: 11 Feb 94 09:29:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3075

>From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall)
>Subject: Elf stuff

>However, do check out Paul Honigmann's ideas on Elf Psychology which 
>appeared in the Digest around October time. (I'm sure someone can provide 
>the volume, date, and time!) These were certainly inspired. 

I can post this again or send it, if anyone is interested...



From: (Kent E. Christensen)
Subject: RuneQuest Materials published by Chaosium
Message-ID: <>
Date: 10 Feb 94 18:31:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3076

        I am very interested in getting my hands on any items published by
Chaosium for RuneQuest.  If you can relay any information you have
concerning this I would be grateful.  I am also interested in geting in
touch with people who play the original game.  Thanks for your help!


From: (Eric Rowe)
Subject: Grain Goddesses and DunDraCon
Message-ID: <>
Date: 10 Feb 94 20:08:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3078

Marc Willner asks...

>Two other matters. Is anyone going to DunDraCon, in San Ramon over the 
>Presidents' Day weekend? If so, I hope to see you there. Second, is there
>a RQ campaign in the South San Francisco Bay area that is looking for
>another player? I haven't played RuneQuest regularly since 1979 and am
>feeling left out.

Lots and lots of us are going.  There should be several good RQ games
being run, and I know the RQ Con 2 committee will all be there at some time
or another.

As to campaigns in the south bay, several of my score of players come
from the south bay and I know there are others in the area looking too.
Maybe I can ease my load and get you a game at the same time.  Anyone
else want extra players?

Loren mentions...

>Paul and Finula and Nick and I have been chatting off-line and the
>question got to be what kind of grains are appropriate for the various
>Grain Goddesses. Some of the possible grains would be:

A plant conversation and I wasn't invited?  Hurumph.

>Since my new campaign will be in Carmania I'm thinking about that area.
>I'd like to say that Pela, who is the Grain Goddess in Carmania, gives
>either Rye or Oats because they're both good northern crops, but in GoG
>Seshna gives Rye and Esrola gives Oats (odd, since Oats are a northern
>crop) and Pela doesn't give any grain at all. Finula votes for Oats (I'm a
>poet!) and Paul goes for Potatoes (and again!) and I like Rye (and again!) 
>because it has the most interesting fungal colonies of any of them.

Finula wins!  I'd say that the main grain of Carmania is the same as
that grown in the Heartland, climatic conditions being similar.  As
everyone surely recalls, the common Pelorian farmer has a saying that
answers your question.  It goes, "The goddess gives us bread and beer
for life and plenty, oats to pay taxes, and cabbage for emergencies."
(p.34 Glorantha)

Another possibility is Barley.  Everyone knows you can never
have too much barley, it grows like a weed in Glorantha.



From: (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: Wind Lord
Message-ID: <>
Date: 11 Feb 94 14:23:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3079

  Paul Reilly, replying to Dave Cake:

>	A player has just qualified as a Wind Lord, and he is also Champion
>of Garhound. I told him that it was inappropriate for him to become a Wind
>Lord just yet, as he has responsibilities (as Champion of Garhound) that 
>prevent him from giving 90% of his time to the cult.
>	Does anyone agree or disagree? I have some doubtsmyself now, as I can
>see that being Champion of Garhound (acting out the role of husband-protector
>of Ernalda) could be seen as a sacred duty that is acceptanle rune-lord 

  I think your opinion in the second paragraph is correct;  it is MORE 
appropriate that the Champion of Garhound, Protector of the Harvest Queen,
be a Wind Lord, than that some random person be it.  Protecting Garhound
is a cult duty.  Then you can segue into other cult duties, based on
Orlanthi myth.  Is this Champion someone who wants to settle in
Garhound and stay married?  Protector of Garhound could make a _great_
campaign.  He could have an Elmal thane, to watch his wife and the town
while he is off questing, etc.

>	Another question - what do Orlanthi do in the Sacred Time? My party,

  I believe thast they participate in the all-important recreation rituals
that keep the universe going.  Even the God Learners didn't monkey around
with these.  (Source: article in Heroes by Greg)

  Sacred Time can lead to some great Heroquest type activities - more
on this another time.

  MNarc Willner writes:
>Another point is where did the pirates learn the ritual? Did Dormal broadcast
>it to everyone?

  Basically, yes.  He taught it everywhere he went.  Now many cultures
have it - it is easy to learn and effective, so it spreads.  This was really
Dormal's only choice - had he kept it a trade secret, the Brithini would
have SQUASHED HIM LIKE A BUG.  (In my opinion).

>(Grazer horses can't mate with Ethilrist's demon horses, it'd be like
 Ethilrist's horses are no more horses than a carved statue of a horse is.
Less so, if anything - they are probably only restricted to the horse 
shape as part of the deal that allowed them to enter the Surface World.

>These demon horses and Hell Hounds are a bit of a puzzle to me. They are 
>creatures of Hell and Darkness, yet not related to trolls and their usual 

  I have a lot of stuff on this, will try to write it up if there is