From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 12 Feb 1994, part 2 Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: jpolk@opus.starlab.csc.com (James Polk) Subject: Red Moon; Polestar Message-ID: <9402111511.AA20776@opus.starlab.csc.com> Date: 11 Feb 94 15:11:41 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3080 Greetings to All. As a newcomer to Unix, Internet & the RQ Daily, I ask your indulgence while I get used to this medium. ----------------- RQ Con This convention re-awakened my enthusiasm for RQ & Glorantha. After a long association with RQ/Gloranth, I felt depressed over a perceived stagnation. Avalon Hill was (is) not doing its job in publishing sufficient RQ material. Good material submitted for publication seemed to lie abandoned. (The Imtherian material submitted by Harald Smith is a good example.) So I expected to have a fun time at the con, but not to come away with any different opinions. I was completely WRONG! Instead, I was inspired and a number of people, beginning with my wife, are suffering the consquences. My thanks goes to David Chen and everyone else who organized and ran the con. ----------------- Glorious ReAscent This is a fascinating book. I recommend it to anyone with ANY interest in Glorantha beyond their current campaign(s). And speaking of the Gods Wall, has anyone given thought about the Star Goddess (I-25)? Does anyone think it might be Yelorna? Does anyone care? ---------------- The Red Moon David Dunham replied to Alex F's initial questions: >My other worry is this: since within the glowline the moon is always full, >how are days named? Are they named according to which phase _would_ be >visible, which thus varies from Pasha-thing to Pasha-thing? This is why I've followed Nick Brooke's advice, and inside the Glowline, the moon doesn't look full. It is surrounded by a crimson corona, much the same way the Empire is surrounded by the Glowline. (The Glowline counts as full moon for spell casting, but doesn't prevent the Lunar faithful from seeing the phases.) ----- I like the idea of the "crimson corona" within the Glowline. However, I have trouble with the phases of the moon being different in different regions within the Glowline. If that were so, it would make communication within the Lunar Empire very difficult. Think of the difficulties we Americans can have with time zones. (Was that 9 am Eastern Standard Time, Eastern Daylight Savings Time, or Central Time?) Now think about letters written across the Empire. (Were we supposed to meet next week on your Full Moon or mine?) Why would people put up with this confusion? I suggest that one of the effects of the Glowline is to make timing of the lunar phases within the Glowline the same. That way the Moon is the "same (which was misinterpreted to mean "always Full") within the Glowline. Outside the Glowline, of course, the phases would differ according to where one was. This way a balance would be achieved between the constant phases within the Glowline and the changing phases without. ---------------- The White Moon A number of documents concerning the White Moon have recently come into my possession. It would appear these documents are unknown to other Gloranthan scholars, so I have been busy trying to translate them. In the upcoming months I shall try to publish as much as I can, given this is not my regular job. In the meantime, I would be very interested in learning if anyone else has documents concerning the White Moon, and, if so, what those documents say. (I believe David Gadbois recently wrote a comment about the White Moon being similar to the Peace Corps.) ---------------- Pole Star (Light, Movement, Harmony) Nick Brooke has said: "I like to imagine a Polaris-worshipping general having Star-worshipping captains under him. Like his deity, he stands in the centre and directs. They move, obedient to his command and design. This way, "Initiates" of Polaris would in fact worship other stars under his command (that's the ordinary officers). The Rune Lords (Generals) would be the true Polaris worshippers." ----- How would this work? I suggest that such close coordination is unlikely without rune magic. (Unless, of course, these people were Dorsai equivalents.) Also, why should Rune Lord status be restricted to generals? Sandy Petersen has said: "POLE STAR: this is an officer's cult. In my view, this cult has only rune lords, no priests or initiates. It does, however, have lay members, and a Pole-star worshiping officer would normally require at least his non-coms to worship this cult. He has a spell that allows him to choreograph the actions and movements of all of his lay members at once (much as Pole Star choreographs the star dance). I'm sure his cult teaches some sort of Tactics skill." ----- This sounds to me like a Lunar nobleman's viewpoint of Pole Star. I think that Pole Star worship is restricted neither to the military and nor to the aristocracy. See below for some of my reasons. Roderick Robertson has said: "Let's not forget the other 'domain' of Pole Star, Castle building. In the Redlands, I'd assume that Polarin (Polarisan? Polaroi?) engineers would be much in demand, and specialist units of field engineers accompany each Lunar army to make forts (I assume that the regular Army makes nightly palisades like the Romans). ..." ----- I had not thought about the Engineer aspect of Pole Star. Hmmm... But why does everyone assume the cult of Pole Star is only a military one? Any god called the "General of the Hosts of the Sky" clearly has military aspects. Any god called "King of the Firmament" is an aristocrat. But any god called the "Grandmaster of Dance" is something more than the sum of the previous two. (By the way, the titles in quotes were taken from Wyrm's Footnotes, #10.) I suspect the answer lies in the fact that Pole Star seems to have more ties to strong female characters than other Sky/Light gods. His sister is Ourania, Queen of Heaven. His wife is the goddess of Dance. (I name her Terpsicora.) Yelorna (if she existed/still exits) either guided him down to the earth (during the Great Darkness) or guided the first Star Captains whom he sent. If Plentonius the Wise, Scribe of Khordavu, is to be believed, the Sky/Light gods and their worshippers consider women of much lesser import than men. Yet here is a King who works with his wife, his sister and another female star goddess, apparently in partnership. It sounds to me, the modern scholar, as if the nature of Pole Star changed. And if so, it is probable the change occurred when Pole Star became associated with the Goddess of Dance. (Could the Goddess of Dance be the mysterious Star Goddess (I-25) on the Gods Wall?) Given all this, I posit the worship of Pole Star includes Rune Lords (Star Lords) AND Rune Priests (Star Priests). Their initiates are called Star Warriors and Star Dancers, respectively. Although the cult is small, it is one in which a woman may rise on merit as an equal to any man, at least on the Rune Priest side. (Presumably, this practice would be seen as an unnatural one by some other Solarians.) I suggest that the High Holy day of Pole Star is the week between Godsdays in the Sacred Time. This week is known as High Holy Week, or The Great Dance, during which all of his worshippers celebrate the creation of the Celestial Dance. During this week, the chief Star Priest casts the Ritual Rune Spell known as Great Dance. This spell recreates the Celestial Dance of the Sky by making all local worshippers to move, think and act in harmony and co-operation with each other. Finally, I would like inflict upon you a quote from an old document I translated some years ago. When Yelm returned in fiery splendor, Pole Star and Terpsicora pondered deeply on how they could combine the stability of the old ways with the constant change of the new. After much thought, they marshalled all their powers and created the Celestial Dance of the Sky. In this dance, all beings in the Firmament were given paths to follow. Nothing remained motionless, and yet all returned again and again to the same places. (Even those bodies which appear to remain stationary are not truly so.) Thus was the perfect harmony of the First Era reconciled with the disorder and movement of History. Yelm was so impressed he named Pole Star "Grandmaster of the Celestial Dance". - James Polk --------------------- From: forester@elvis.srl.ford.com (Brian Forester) Subject: Ergot and hallucinogens Message-ID:Date: 11 Feb 94 05:05:08 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3081 > I suppose that if I can't come up with anything better I'll just make up a > grain, and say it tastes like Rye but is subtly different (the Carmanians > would say it tastes a lot better) but still susceptible to Ergot (which is > just too much fun for the GM to ignore). > Loren Miller LOREN@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu Are you refering to the fact that certain molds and funguses have hallucinogenic properties? I don't remember if it was Ergot or something else. I think there was a theory that similarly spoiled grain was the root cause of the Salem witch trials. Perhaps the dark elves have decided to spread a little bit of chemical help to those dour humans. >I also gave them the magic Sphere of Obscene >Agitation which I just made up, which was a glass ball containing a >couch and two small dolls. When you shook up the ball, the dolls >engaged in various carnal acts. > Sandy Petersen A quick thought about the Sphere of Obscene Agitation, perhaps its not quite as useless as it sounds. Perhaps it shows certain couples engaging in various carnel acts. A real handy device for blackmail. I don't know anything about Tekumel but I have gotten the impression that the punishment for various crimes is quite severe and adultry might fit into that category. Brian (forester@elvis.srl.ford.com) "The human race will decree from time to time: 'There is something at which it is absolutely forbidden to laugh.'" Nietzche --------------------- From: oskaro@rhi.hi.is (Oskar Gunnar Oskarsson) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 07 Feb 1994, part 2 Message-ID: <9402111600.AA01594@hengill.rhi.hi.is> Date: 11 Feb 94 16:00:27 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3082 Hey Game Fan! I just wondered if you'd be interested in some software swapping. I.e. games etc. I especially like games like DOOM, Wolf3D, Spear, Civilization, SimCity 2000 and that sort of "stragety games". But I'm always willing to try out some new stuff. Ps. Do you have (or have seen) OS2 or Chicago? Call me, and we'll do lunch! *** NOT A SPA AGENT *** ====================== oskaro@hengill.rhi.hi.is ================================ FAX: +354-1-14558 Oskar G. Oskarsson Why are BRUNETTES so easy between 3-5 p.m. GMT University of Iceland to get into bed? office phone: 694372 stud.jur. Who CARES??? ================================================================================ --------------------- From: oskaro@rhi.hi.is (Oskar Gunnar Oskarsson) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 07 Feb 1994, part 2 Message-ID: <9402111601.AA01665@hengill.rhi.hi.is> Date: 11 Feb 94 16:01:20 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3083 Hey Game Fan! I just wondered if you'd be interested in some software swapping. I.e. games etc. I especially like games like DOOM, Wolf3D, Spear, Civilization, SimCity 2000 and that sort of "stragety games". But I'm always willing to try out some new stuff. Ps. Do you have (or have seen) OS2 or Chicago? Call me, and we'll do lunch! *** NOT A SPA AGENT *** ====================== oskaro@hengill.rhi.hi.is ================================ FAX: +354-1-14558 Oskar G. Oskarsson Why are BRUNETTES so easy between 3-5 p.m. GMT University of Iceland to get into bed? office phone: 694372 stud.jur. Who CARES??? ================================================================================ --------------------- From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) Subject: re: RQ Daily Message-ID: <9402111637.AA10267@idcube.idsoftware.com> Date: 11 Feb 94 04:36:57 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3084 someone asks (can't be bothered to go back and see who it was): >I imagined someone pulling out an Excellent Ruby Eye and freezing a >whole roomful of people with a few clicks of a button. How would >people play this? In the interest of playability there should be >*some* way to avoid the 'sudden death' effect? In AD&D there would >be a saving throw - signifying that someone managed to duck at the >right moment. How is this handled in RQ (he says, revealing his >ignorance). I assign the deadlier Eyes an innate Power rating, and match it vs. the target's Power. I also let anti-magic spells defend against the Eyes. In addition, certain monsters are simply immune to certain Eyes (you can't Sleep undead, frex). >So there is other material of this sort available? Where can one >get hold of it? I'll let others answer this who are more computer-literate than I. I predict Loren Miller will let you know. Someone (Alex Ferguson?) asks: >Does standing in the shadow of a mountain diminish a lunar magicians >abilities? Does staying underground do so? I play no, allowing the Lunar force to permeate the world. One could probably make a case for Wintertop blocking some of the Lunar power, seeing as it's Orlanth's birthplace, but it doesn't seem to have hindered the Lunars much in their conquest of Sartar. >I think that at least some effects ought to be impossible out of >sight of the moon. The Crater Makers probably can't do anything. Maybe you can't summon the Full Moon Guard either. I would say that if this hinders moon magic, then they should get an extra bonus when within sight of the moon. After all, in most roleplaying areas (i.e., outside the Glowline) Lunar magicians are punier than other magicians 4/7 of the time. Plus it's harder than heck for them to get elementals. >Aw, Sandy, you should have known you can't feed us off with "for >instance". What values does a dragonewt need to master a set of >traits? A sum of 100? or a certain balance? Since none of my players ran dragonewts, I never bothered to specify. In case anyone ever asked (you, frex) my plan was that the dragonewt must get to 100 in each requisite trait pairs before advancing, but that he only dropped back to the next lower "caste" if one of his traits had lowered to a total of 10 or less upon death. This latter number is utterly unplaytested. If a warrior wants to go to noble, he must not only get 100 in all "Noble" traits, but also he must have restored his Warrior traits to 100. In addition, I play that dragonewts do not increase their skills by experience in the course of a single life (getting only one skill increase per life, as it were). This makes for slow improvement, but I have always assumed that it took many years, even centuries, for a dragonewt to advance to the next caste, except under unusual circumstances. Greg believes that many scout dragonewts have been scouts since the Dawn. No wonder the poor things get impatient and mutate themselves into monsters like brontosaurs. However, Greg and I at one time concurred that dragonewts ARE capable of breeding. They, of course, have five sexes, so breeding is pretty slow (there only being one member of the fifth sex in all Dragon Pass). >What stage has which traits? Once more, lacking dragonewt PCs, I didn't figure out all the details. I don't even recall all the dragon magic listed in the Glorantha supplement to RQ. Somewhere I have it all listed, plus some new ones, plus the trait they're all attached to. Sorry, guys. Scout = none (that's why scouts don't have dragon magic, and have to learn spirit magic or sorcery instead). NOTE: a scout mutates himself into a magisaur by getting too interested in spirit magic, sorcery, or (Ourouboros forbid!) rune magic. Any scout that actually becomes an adept or acolyte is certain to become a magisaur next incarnation and then lose his dragonewt rebirth ability -- he's still immortal, and just keeps degenerating, getting more and more magical, and less and less intelligent. Eventually who knows what he'll become? A brontosaurus, I guess. >And what passions pertain to becoming a dinosaur? Triceratops: Lust Carnosaur: greed, stinginess (as opposed to Generosity) Brontosaurs: my own belief is that these are fully-matured magisaurs, but this doesn't mean that a single dragonewt can't become a brontosaur in a single try. I think they're not associated with any one trait, but with the magic ritual which the dragonewts use to try to skip a caste in their growth. This always fails, of course, but I guess there's enough newts willing to try to keep a tiny brontosaur population around. Stegosaurs: pride is my belief (as opposed to Humility). >Nice concept. [referring to the idea that dragon magic is easy but >risky power for humans.] Did this happen to the EWF as well? I think that the "bad guys" of the EWF used dragon powers wrongly, but that the central catastrophe of the EWF was based on something else -- a noble but failed attempt to perform a magic effect that would transform the world. David Dunham asks: >Where did Ethilrist's simple farmers come from? They are his original Black Horse Troop mercenaries, now retired. Presumably they also include his BHT's children and maybe grandchildren nowadays. Marc Wilner >It is my understanding that Dormal didn't break the Curse that >closed the seas, he merely developed a ritual that allowed a ship to >circumvent it. That means every ship needs a Priest of Dormal to >sail. Not so. The ritual is the Open Seas sorcery ceremony that anyone can cast. Since it's sorcery, it can be taught w/o benefit of Spell Teaching or summoning a spirit or anything. And certainly you don't need a priest to cast it, just someone with a little Ceremony and a magic point to spare (which is all it costs). You don't even need Intensity. Every ship must have someone who knows Open Seas. This is not the same has needing a priest -- more on the order of hiring a first mate, steersman, or other specialist. IMO, the vast majority of Gloranthan sailors don't worship Dormal except maybe as lay members. >Another point is where did the pirates learn the ritual? Did Dormal >broadcast it to everyone? Yes. He was quite promiscuous in teaching it. He didn't even set up a cult structure (IMO) to worship him -- that was done after he left. Ferguson (?) asks: >These demon horses and Hell Hounds are a bit of a puzzle to me. They >are creatures of Hell and Darkness, yet not related to trolls. Hell is a big place. There's plenty of stuff there that's not on the surface world, or even dreamt of by mortals. The troll parts of Hell are only one section. There's also the Styx "sea", inhabited by horrendous monsters. There's the Hell "Sky", dull gray with black dots for stars. There's the ghost of the Spike, huge shattered splinters of dead Truestone, still inhabited by some remnants of the Celestial Court (not the Gods, their minions). And of course there's other terrible places, like the "top end" of Valind's Glacier, that wraps around from the north of Glorantha into Hell. Loren Miller sez: >the question got to be what kind of grains are appropriate for the >various Grain Goddesses. They're listed in GoG. For convenience, I'll repeat them (sorry, didn't mean to sound didactic -- what I really mean is that these are my own suggestions, partly based on Greg's advice, which is why I published 'em). Frona (Fronela): barley Krala (Kralorela): rice Esrola (Maniria): oats Pelora (Peloria): corn Ralia (Ralios): wheat Seshna (Seshnela & Tanisor): rye Then there's more, from Pamaltela (with things like millet and peas, frex). Of course, any grain goddess can provide growing magic for any grain, but a goddess's "specialty" gets a slight bonus in growth.