From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 17 Feb 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
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From: s.manning@ic.ac.uk
Subject: Science and Time, SAD elves
Message-ID: <9402161422.AA07000@milli>
Date: 16 Feb 94 14:22:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3112
In X-RQ-ID: 3110 Nick writes
>Yes. Elemental/evolutionary sequence. Five elements plus law and chaos to
>make up Time. Law as the first (Creation) and last (Compromise) steps in
>the mythological development of Glorantha. The Cosmic Compromise sets up a
>set of rigid parameters within which the gods can exert their influence. If
>you hold to the Sorcery = Science argument, Science is only possible within
>Time, once Nature is fettered within the bounds of the Compromise. One of
>the best supporting arguments for my theories of the late development of
>what we now call Malkionism...
No.
I for one do hold with the sorcery = science argument, but I don't think that
Nick is correct in thinking that scorcery is only possible after Time. Firstly,
sorcery was invented by Malkion's son Zzabur, which was before Time. Secondly,
I don't even know what the Malkioni say about the Cosmic Compromise, which
doesn't really seem to effect them as it is pretty much a theistic concept
concerning the power of the gods being limited. Thirdly, related to these two
points, wizards do not need gods, only their own skill, so anything effecting
the gods wouldn't have much of an effect on the Malkioni.
However, if you want a little
bit of science in this argument, then for some time now I have toyed with the
theory that Time is akin to an order parameter that appeared when the World
went through a phase transition, from a state of high "potentiality" to a state
of being. What do I mean by this? Well, to be honest, I am a little vague on
these ideas myself, but before Time everything seemed to have a lot of
potential (see GoG, the monomyth),
in the sense of capacity to be or do, which to the theists would be
manifest by the gods being free. After Time, the world seemed to "crystallise",
things are now what they are and the gods are "confined". Man is nearly all
being, so was relatively uneffected by the transition, as sorcery would be, as
the laws of Nature would not, of course, change. A real world example is
crystallisation; the high-temperature liquid phase looks very different to the
low-temp. crystal, but the phyics doesn't change in the transition, even though
different methods are required to understand them.
I apologise for this being
somewhat speculative, but any thoughts on it?
However, I thought that Nick's elves with Seasonly Affected Disorder was a nice
idea. I am not sure if I have read this anywhere, but a related point is that
brown elves might grow new "hair" each Gloranthan spring (earth or sea season ?)
and then loose it in the Gloranthan autumn.
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From: brandon@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 16 Feb 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <9402161437.AA08322@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov>
Date: 16 Feb 94 14:37:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3113
Sandy writes:
> I don't think of the Dara Happan solar worshipers as
>"stereotyped Uptight Stifflipped Dara Happan Fuddy-Duddies". Rather,
>I think of them as noble Romans or Greek city-staters (who had quite
>a bit of depth in their poetry and plays). Perhaps I see them this
>way because I don't think that clear moral strictures make one a
>worse human being. The Puritanical mode of thought at its worst is
>anti-pleasure and oppressive, but at its best, it is encouragement
>for every man to be his best and to help one's neighbor -- I think
>both types of thought can be found among the Solar cultists.
> Remember that Yelm is a highly benign god -- much more so
>than the unreliable Orlanth. The good Solar king is just as generous
>to his followers as the good barbarian king, and he is a hell of lot
>more fair-minded.
Yes! The same certainty about truth and good that makes Yelm and Yelmalio
cultures rigid and hierarchical also makes individuals strive to be spotless
exemplars of virtue. A Light Son may think of all outsiders as fundamentally
ignorant thieves, but at the same time he tries to be the most honest, upright,
dependable man he can. Some people in every culture are hypocrites, of course,
but the typical devout Solar has the same high standards for his own conduct
as those he applies to others.
Brandon
hierarchical social structure found among
Yelmic and Yelmalio cultures is
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From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9402161458.AA11074@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 16 Feb 94 02:58:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3114
Mike Dawson sez (apparently in reference to a discussion I missed):
>As pointed out by the fellow who noticed that 2 points of Dispel
>Magic knocks down your MP investment in Axe Trance ...
Only if you're an idiot. Any temple defender worth her salt
would make sure to put Shield and/or Absorption on the chosen
defender, too, to halt such attempts. (Both good Earth defensive
spells).
uncle Ken sez:
>Now... Sandy. Was David too harsh in his assessment of the Elf Pak
>manuscript? Would it be sinister to suggest you excerpt a few choice
>bits for the Daily's delectation?
Naw, it pretty much chewed. Basically, what it consisted of was a
whole bunch of magic elf plants descriptions. Almost any RQ
gamemaster can come up with a selection about as good as Elfpak. Here
is the best plant from Elfpak (IMO)
DARKSTAR: this is a small annual flower which blooms at
night. The special feature of Darkstar is that the flower glows when
forces of Darkness or Chaos draw within 50m or so, and glow brighter
the nearer or the more powerful the force is. The plant can be used
as a sort of "early warning system" by elves.
It is highly popular among broos, who pick it to use the
flower for a convenient light.
>BTW, Sandy, Doom is Evil.
*sigh* glad you like it. id's next game is likely to be fantasy, and
don't be surprised if you spot some RuneQuesty monsters in it.
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From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (T.S.Baguley Thom Baguley)
Subject: General Comments
Message-ID: <9402161729.AA26440@Sun.COM>
Date: 16 Feb 94 17:29:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3115
I've finally caught up with a months worth of Daily's after being distracted by
a few minor things (like trying to write my Ph.D. thesis).
I wish I'd had the time and money to attend RQ-Con it sounded great. Anyway ..
I'll be at Convulsion.
ELF PSYCHOLOGY
Excellent suggestions by Nick and Sandy. I would expect Elves who join non-elf
cults (I forget the CoP term) to have 'abnormal' personalities ... perhaps
frozen at a particular stage. This might explain why the forest tolerates a few
such individuals . They may provide a kind of stability in organization, trade,
war and so on.
THE RED MOON
I've always liked Nick's suggestion re the phases of the moon inside the
glowline. Is this (semi-)official now ...?
HUMAKTI VARIATIONS
All cults vary in emphasis from place to place and person to person. I suspect
Pavis is interesting in having a high concentration of Humakti from several
different regions. As for their attitude to death ... well I've never played
Humakti as suicidal ... the cult has a parry spell (hardly indicative of
all-out suicidal attack). Hunakti might indulge in ritual suicide or kill
themselves to prevent being taken captive or being questioned (they wouldn't
want to lie). Humakti aren't afraid of death per se but they probably are
afraid of an ignoble, senseless or stupid death. Dying on a heroquest is by
definition a noble, holy death ... when my Humakti are ready (none of mine have
HeroQuested) I hope that's the way they go.
IT HAS TO BE BIG ... (RQ4)
Personally I'd like RQ4 to contain as much as possible. If RQ4 were released as
one rulebook and several separate sourcebooks game shops in the UK will
probably charge 17.99 each for them (17.99 was the original cover price of
Dorastor: LOD in (Virgin) Games Centre). If the price is going to be high I
would like value for money. Besides the source books may never get released.
GRoY
How do I get hold of this from the U.K. I have two CA phone numbers but none
have worked. Help!
CODEX 1 /RQ Adventures 2
Are there any other UK folks wanting to order a copies of these magazines?
International postal rates are high and it might be possible to spread the
burden.
Thom
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Namology
Message-ID:
Date: 16 Feb 94 20:46:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3116
Quick inspiration:
Arkat - Arch-Hate?
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Humans, Handra
Message-ID:
Date: 16 Feb 94 21:45:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3117
>From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
>X-RQ-ID: 3109
>Alex Ferguson points out:
>>Coming up with a systematic classification of the Gloranthan human
>>subraces seems somewhat problematic, given the number of wholely
>>contradictory origin myths, not to say the whole of pre-Dawn
>>`history' being a shakey proposition at best. Are these races each
>>of a common `real' origin, or are they classified according to their
>>appearance only?
>I leave questions of "real" origin to clever God Learners and other
>philosophers. The classification is basically appearance only. The
>existence of obvious sub-types such as pygmies (Impala riders, frex)
>also muddles the situation.
So Wareran means "looking like descents of Warera"?
Pygmies and their role in the world seem unclear to me. In King of
Sartar the Little Folk are classified as non-human (in the eyes of
the dragons and Elder Races anyway).
> I don't think that Glorantha follows a cladistic model of
>relationships. That is, just because two groups have completely
>different origins doesn't mean they aren't related now. For one
>thing, they may well have intermixed during the Great Darkness or
>Dawn Ages.
Silver Age is most probable, since after I Fought We Won there was a
sense of common accomplishments which might have overcome racial
borders between men and animals (Hsunchen).
>For another, I see Gloranthan life evolving
>bidirectionally -- not only (as on Earth) along increasingly separate
>paths, but also the unique principle of two separate forms becoming
>more and more similar, until they are the same species.
Ok. So when and how did the Hsunchen attain the Man Rune, and what
are the different "flavours" of this Rune for the major races (Fire
for the Agimori, Water for the Warerans? Sky for Easterners? Moon or
Darkness for Veldang?), and why did the Hsunchen adopt the flavours,
too?
>>> [[Sandy] said that the only native Genertelan earth culture was
>>> the Praxian] Waha is manifestly an Earth God
>>Only in the same sense Pamalt is. Or was that the point? This
>>doesn't seem very clear-cut to me, after all, Earth isn't a major
>>runic association of either.
>Pamalt's Rune implies mastery of the beneficent elements making up
>his land. Waha is an Earth God despite his lack of any elemental
>Rune. He is a close associate of the earth goddess Eiritha (if his
>elemental tendencies were strong enough, he would be considered
>Malign Earth, even as she would be Benign). He does the bloody work
>necessary to keep men alive in the plains, commands Gnomes, and is
>associated with general Earth principles.
> Issaries has no Storm Rune, but I think everyone that knows
>of him considers him a sort of Storm god kin. Waha's kinship with the
>earth is stronger than that. Look at Lokarnos -- true, he has the
>Light Rune, but I think that's more a courtesy than anything -- he
>doesn't even have Command Salamander of his own self. Yet he's a Fire
>God (of sorts).
Really? I thought his main association was with the God Learners, with
Tradetalk and Spell Trading and all that. Also: Why did the God of the
Silver Feet be an Air God? With his parentage, Larnste and Harana Ilor,
two Powers only, there are no discernible Storm connections in Godtime
other than the Lightbringers' Quest.
Lhankor Mhy has no elemental parentage, apart from Earth (through Mostal),
either. By marriage he is tied to Dayzatar.
Both seem to have been pushed into Orlanth's camp by the stern and
unforgiving court of Yelm, but have no Air connection whatsoever. The
LBQ description tells that Lhankor Mhy and Issaries met Chalana and Flesh
Man on their Quest, and later Orlanth and Eurmal.
Of course, Orlanth and Issaries are kin through Larnste, father of
Issaries and Kero Fin, as are Orlanth and Lhankor through Ga, mother
of Mostal, Kero Fin, and Umath. But then Yelm and Umath are brothers...
> Remember that Yelm is a highly benign god -- much more so
>than the unreliable Orlanth. The good Solar king is just as generous
>to his followers as the good barbarian king, and he is a hell of lot
>more fair-minded.
To his descendants, only. Maybe include Dayzatar's offspring, but
I wouldn't include Lodril's, or Aether's other children. Maybe Orlanth
is unreliable, but equally to all.
Marc Willner in X-RQ-ID: 3111
>SInce Joerg asked. The Handran "Guilds" are open only to citizens, and
>all citizens belong to a "guild". (Note, the term guild is highly
>inaccurate, as they don't resemble the Terran variety in any way except
>they tend to revolve around a single type of work or product.)
Do I become citizen by joining a guild? Do I join a guild by practising
a certain craft, or am I precluded from exercising my craft because I'm
no guild member?
>It is
>not likely that a Trader Prince from the surrounding area would be a
>member. They would be likely to have embassies or agents in the city, as
>do a lot of other groups (the Ralian citys, Ramailia, the Lunars, the
>Sartarites, the former Holy Country, to name a few).
Aren't there various guilds of traders? Spice, cloth, wine, grain
merchants?
>After all Handran
>ships stole a considerable portion of the overland trade that used to go
>between Ralios and Nochet. Travel by ship is faster and cheaper, and it is
>easier to get goods down the Noshain River than overland to Bastis.
The Issarians would move in at once and seize whatever they can from
any new trade.
>While we are on the subject of trade, what is being traded? I know what
>Handra trades in, selling cloth, both a local linen equivalent and
>imported wool, metal goods, rope and 'naval stores', and dyed goods, using
>dyes found no where else in Glorantha. (It worked for the Phoenicians.)
>They are importing raw wool, grain, and raw metal. What are other places
>producing.
Mournsea snail purple?
Iron will come from the Castle Coast, via Nolos or Ralios; wool from
Dragon Pass; grain from Esrolia; pumice from Caladraland; glass from
Syran; furs and ivory from Ygg's Isles; timber from Pralorela, slaves
from Prax; silk, spice, dyes (other than purple) from Kralorela; dyes
from Teshnos (indigo); wines from all around, etc.
Handran purple would be extremely popular in the Lunar Empire...
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de