From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 18 Feb 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: rowe@soda.berkeley.edu (Eric Rowe)
Subject: Darkstar = Darkfoil ?
Message-ID: <199402170906.BAA17632@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: 16 Feb 94 17:06:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3121
Sandy says...
> DARKSTAR: this is a small annual flower which blooms at
>night. The special feature of Darkstar is that the flower glows when
>forces of Darkness or Chaos draw within 50m or so, and glow brighter
>the nearer or the more powerful the force is. The plant can be used
>as a sort of "early warning system" by elves.
> It is highly popular among broos, who pick it to use the
>flower for a convenient light.
This is just another name for DARKFOIL yes? It is a plant growing in
the garden (big rubble) that does the same thing.
eric
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From: jclannom@mathlab.mtu.edu (Joe Lannom)
Subject: Stasis/Law and Dwarves
Message-ID: <9402171406.AA19881@mathlab.mtu.edu>
Date: 17 Feb 94 14:06:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3122
|> Any theories on why Mostal has Stasis not Law? Because the World Machine
|> is a broken system, perhaps?
|>
Yes, its broken, thats what all this change is coming from. If the machine
was working properly, the same thing(s) would be happening in the same
order over and over again as the world machine does its thing, whatever the
world machine's "thing" is. Law represents the predicability of the errors
that the world machine generates, as well as the parts that are functioning
properly. Statis is non-change... their perfect world would never
fluctuate and always be the same... no wonder some of them go bonkers and
run around being non-productive.
It'd be great if the world machine was actually a printing press that spit
out RQ gaming materials The self referential paradoxes that would
generate would probably make a dwarf dance with glee, the geeks.
Sorry, got carried away...
joe "maybe it makes gummy dwarves" lannom
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From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Digest
Message-ID: <9402171552.AA13209@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 17 Feb 94 03:52:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3123
Joerg, my toughest critic, asks:
>So Wareran means "looking like descents of Warera"?
Boiled down to its crudest essence, that's what I think. However, I
also think that Warerans all come from a common source, though the
Warerans themselves do not. The fact that they have "different"
origin stories fazes me not at all -- 'tis my belief that these
different origin stories do not actually imply different origins, but
are the same origin story seen from a different point of view, or are
different portions of the same story.
>Ok. So when and how did the Hsunchen attain the Man Rune?
(they say) at the time of their differentiation from the beasts.
>What are the different "flavours" of this Rune for the major races?
Wareran = storm. Kralori = sky. Agimori = Earth. Veldang = Moon.
>Why did the Hsunchen adopt the flavours, too?
They had no choice. Here are four theories about the Hsunchen.
Some God Learners said that the Hsunchen "origin" myths are
really adoption myths by the beasts seen backwards. In other words,
the Hsunchen evolved into kinship with the beasts, thus gaining a
common ancestor. Presumably at one time (according to this theory)
they were just ordinary humans, who then sought this method of
survival in the Darkness.
The Agimori said that the Hsunchen are attempts by the beasts
to emulate mankind and so survive through the Darkness. The Hsunchen
are Protectors of the beasts, and as such are a sort of "fairy" folk.
Their surface resemblance to the Agimori is because the beasts
naturally tried to imitate the noblest type of human.
The Kralori, who have the most Hsunchen in their territory of
anyone and so ought to know, say that the Hsunchen were created by
miscegenation between humanity and beast. If the humans in a
particular land were Kralori, naturally the Hsunchen would be, too.
This theory also explains why there are no Veldang Hsunchen -- the
perfectionist Artmali Empire would not have allowed such behavior.
This theory is not necessarily incompatible with the Agimori one --
the beast ancestors may have attempted to imitate humanity by
cross-breeding.
Some other God Learners said that humanity naturally evolved
independently everywhere it was found. The land itself, no doubt
influenced by the Land Goddesses, determined the type of person to
appear in that region. Thus, in the Kralori Empire, and around it,
people were of the Kralori type. This last theory also explains why
in the borders of regions, where the land's "influence" is mixed, you
find mongrelized humans, such as the Pentans, who show both a Kralori
and a Wareran kinship. This theory is popular among some modern
Theyalan thinkers.
How's that, Joerg? Enough theorizing for ya?
>Why did the God of the Silver Feet be an Air God?
Because Issaries is the ally of Orlanth and shares his cult
philosophies, and vice versa. His worshipers even come from the same
culture (at least nowadays). I contend you don't need the storm Rune
to be associated with the storm gods. I certainly think that if an
Issaries priest wandered into the Lunar empire, he'd be viewed as a
possible subversive, even as the Yelmalio jerks in Biturian Varosh's
tale chose to view him, an Issaries priest, as a Storm-worshiper.
Pamalt is an Earth god because he heads up a council largely
composed of Earth gods. He is associated with the earth.
>>[I said] Yelm is a highly benign god -- much more so
>>than the unreliable Orlanth.
>To his descendants, only. Maybe include Dayzatar's offspring, but
>I wouldn't include Lodril's, or Aether's other children.
Wow, apparently you, Joerg, have swallowed the Orlanth propaganda
hook, line and sinker. See here, Yelm is the most generous deity in
the universe -- every single living creature on Earth (except trolls,
maybe) depend on him for survival, and he provides it to all without
cost and in most cases without even gratitude on their part.
The proper Yelm ruler is fair and just to all, NOT just to
his followers. Many Yelm tales give cases in which a Yelm king ruled
in favor of an outsider over one of his own kin, because the outsider
was right, and his kin wrong. Orlanth would never ever do such a
thing.
Why do you say that Yelm is not benign to Lodril's kids? He
takes upon himself the burden of being always perfect, always just,
always responsible, and Lodril worshipers get to have orgies and do
pretty much what they like. When a Yelmite adjudges a Lodril, I'm
sure he takes the Lodril's social caste into consideration. For
instance, a Yelm worshiper who commits adultery is no doubt branded
or even killed. A Lodril worshiper may only be publicly embarrassed
-- and if the act occurs during a fertility festival, it's probably
not even considered a crime.
---------------------
From: staats@MIT.EDU (Richard C. Staats)
Subject: Joining in the discussion about the form of Time
Message-ID: <9402171633.AA22912@MIT.EDU>
Date: 17 Feb 94 16:29:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3124
Greetings!
It seems that Time would not exist without Chaos. You can view
Chaos in Glorantha as a primal form of entropy. Before Chaos, Glorantha
was a world where the laws of thermo-dynamics did not hold. Glorantha
was fundamentally changed by the infusion of Chaos into the world, and
now Glorantha balances on a thin line between being consumed by entropy
or slipping back into the non-sequential, point changeless universe of
the Godstime.
The ongoing struggle of the lawful and chaotic factions by the
mortal minions helps to maintain the proper balance (or keep the balance
of the two forces within acceptable bounds). Now, Law and Chaos are not
opposites, but the entropic properties of Chaos and the point changeless
nature of the Godstime *are* at odds. In my campaign, illumination is
the insight that both Chaos and the pre-Time world are part of and
essential for the existence of Time and a sequential based world.
Sorcery was probably possible before Time, but sorcery took a
different form. For example, things like duration and range, etc. would
not be relavent before the advent of Time. We know that there were
Brithini prior to the Dawning.
I have a cult in my campaign that seeks to maintain the balance
between the ``natural order'' of the gods prior to Time and the force of
primal Chaos. I have rarely had a player character in this cult; it
works primarily behind the scenes and is by nature secretive. Whether
this balance cult is a heretical misunderstanding of the ``true'' nature
of the world or has the real insight into the mechanism of how the
universe operates is subject to debate.
Have to run!
Hope this finds all in good health and spirits!
Rich
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Sorcery Before Time, and unrelated stuff
Message-ID:
Date: 17 Feb 94 17:43:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3125
S. Manning in X-RQ-ID: 3112
>In X-RQ-ID: 3110 Nick writes
>>Yes. Elemental/evolutionary sequence. Five elements plus law and chaos to
>>make up Time. Law as the first (Creation) and last (Compromise) steps in
>>the mythological development of Glorantha. The Cosmic Compromise sets up a
>>set of rigid parameters within which the gods can exert their influence. If
>>you hold to the Sorcery = Science argument, Science is only possible within
>>Time, once Nature is fettered within the bounds of the Compromise. One of
>>the best supporting arguments for my theories of the late development of
>>what we now call Malkionism...
With Zzabur being the "Hero" or "Deity" "worshipped" to gain magic powers?
>No.
>I for one do hold with the sorcery = science argument,
Western wizardry, which originated in the Kingdom of Logic. Eastern sorcery
would be philosophical rather than scientific/empirical.
>but I don't think that
>Nick is correct in thinking that scorcery is only possible after Time. Firstly,
>sorcery was invented by Malkion's son Zzabur, which was before Time.
Invented, or found? Or was it a natural ability of the people of the
Kingdom of Logic which Zzabur took and refined?
>Secondly,
>I don't even know what the Malkioni say about the Cosmic Compromise, which
>doesn't really seem to effect them as it is pretty much a theistic concept
>concerning the power of the gods being limited.
The Malkiioni surely appreciate the power limits for the "False Gods",
another proof of the superiority of the Invisible God.
But then, early sources (1st Age/pre-RQ3) tell us they worshipped Malkion.
Arkati (who originated in the First Age) had no problem with Stygian worship
of deities and simultaneous Malkionism. Neither had the Carmanians'
ancestors in Loskalm. Only the "Return to Rightness" djihad in the early
Second Age manifested monotheism, and suppressed dissenters like Syranthir
and his followers, or the Dark Empire. The Serpent Kings of Seshnela
practised Earth and Ancestor worship, and built temples to Orlanth and
Magasta (!) in Hrelar Amali.
>Thirdly, related to these two
>points, wizards do not need gods, only their own skill, so anything effecting
>the gods wouldn't have much of an effect on the Malkioni.
Only on their Saints, which does little to affect a wizard, but a lot to
farmers and warriors (later including knights).
>However, if you want a little
>bit of science in this argument, then for some time now I have toyed with the
>theory that Time is akin to an order parameter that appeared when the World
>went through a phase transition, from a state of high "potentiality" to a state
>of being. What do I mean by this? Well, to be honest, I am a little vague on
>these ideas myself, but before Time everything seemed to have a lot of
>potential (see GoG, the monomyth),
>in the sense of capacity to be or do, which to the theists would be
>manifest by the gods being free. After Time, the world seemed to "crystallise",
>things are now what they are and the gods are "confined". Man is nearly all
>being, so was relatively uneffected by the transition, as sorcery would be, as
>the laws of Nature would not, of course, change. A real world example is
>crystallisation; the high-temperature liquid phase looks very different to the
>low-temp. crystal, but the phyics doesn't change in the transition, even though
>different methods are required to understand them.
>I apologise for this being
>somewhat speculative, but any thoughts on it?
The Malkioni would say that the greater deities of nature (Yelm, Orlanth,
Magasta, Subere, Ernalda) are erroneously worshipped natural laws, and
the "minor aspects" are local phenomenons of nature (such as Storm Bull).
I don't quite take the crystallizing concept, but maybe I've been into
crystallography too deeply. Time is a constant flow of events, with a
lineal and a cyclical component effective in the Mundane Plane. The lineal
component makes sure the protagonists in the events change over time, while
the cyclical component makes sure that certain patterns of events reappear,
such as the seasons, or the large scale changes which mark the ends of the
World Ages.
I like the concepts of Being and Doing, but to me it looks more like the
Compromise assured the deities their Being in exchange for their ability of
Doing. Those who Do are the mortal (including the unaging) dwellers of the
Mundane Plane, who are less assured of Being than the deities.
Thom Baguley in X-RQ-ID: 3115
>CODEX 1 /RQ Adventures 2
>Are there any other UK folks wanting to order a copies of these magazines?
>International postal rates are high and it might be possible to spread the
>burden.
German RQ society has a (too) good stock of RQ-Adventures 1 and 2 reprints
which can be sent in Europe for national fees.
Contact
Ingo Tschinke
Scheevemoorer Landstrasse 33
28325 Bremen
Germany
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall)
Subject: Elf stuff and things
Message-ID: <940217215958_100116.2616_BHJ33-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 17 Feb 94 21:59:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3126
Elf stuff for Ken:
Wow! I forgot. Elves are plants ain't they? Well then, you must talk to "the plant guy", Eric
Rowe. I'm sure he can populate your elf forest with all sorts of interesting plants.
Other things:
Glorious ReAscent. Copies of this will be available for sale at Convulsion '94. Another
good reason to attend!
Codex. This is about to be printed in the UK. Contact Colin Phillips at:
cphillips@blue.demon.co.uk
Tales #11 is about to be published. Hurrah! I hope to be sending them out to UK subbers
during the week beginning the 27th Feb.
I also have available a limited edition "Report on the Fall of Boldhome, 1624" based on
the first Home of the Bold at Convulsion '92. It includes 21 reports including those by Nick
Brooke, David Cheng and Greg Stafford - as well as the Boldhome map and gazetteer from
the Rough Guide. It's 64 pages plus a card cover, and costs 6.00 UK pounds including UK
postage (overseas readers please contact me for a price).
HotB 2 at RQ-Con. John Medway asked me to post a role of honour of the characters and
players. David Cheng and I apologise if we got some names wrong as there were a few
people who dropped out at the last minute and had to be replaced.
Janet Anderson - Berta Featherpenny (Grazer priestess)
Paul Anderson - Romne Sharpsword (Sambari housecarl)
Shannon Appel - Vamastal Greyskin (Sambari king)
Glen Bailey - Toleander Planter ("Head of the Financiers Guild")
Andy Ballantine - Asquai Stormpetrel (Grazer military attache)
Chris Becker - Yesugai Kuckuk (Grazer Cultural Attache)
Tom Beeson - Norpin Hopcherry (Stonemason's Guildmaster)
Maurice Beyke - Egrid the Enlightened (Aide to Harvar Ironfist)
Robert Bisbee - Alfgar Goodspear (Locaem tribal king)
David Blizzard - Corwen (Colymar tribe)
Ron Boerger - Hemrid the Ox (Balmyr king)
Bill Bridges - Lemidus the Scribe (Aide to Gordius)
Nick Brooke - Temertain the Learned (Prince of Sartar)
John Brown - Halthippus the Inspired (Guardian of the Flame Altar)
James B Chapin - Leonidas of Darleep (Lunar Magistratus)
James D Chapin - Dimi Hardhide (Leatherworker's Guildmaster)
David Chapin - Pliny Dropgoode (Reporter)
Diana Chapin - Yrsa Nightbeam (Torkani queen)
Paula Crock - Elspeth Halfbarrow (Earth priestess)
Bryan Davis - Tayang of the Glowing lake (Aide to Subatei)
Fred Davis - Ozymandius Sharphorn (Praxian "trader")
Mike Dawson - Harvar Ironfist (Duke of Alda-chur)
Robert B. Detter - Paravor Sureseat (Poljoni "trader")
David Dunham - Magnyrd the Black (Gordius' spymaster)
Jon Evans - Count Stolwitz (Heroic cavalry commander)
Marc Eyrand - Hulius Hinglesias (Lunar seneschal)
Scott G. Ferrier - JD Brightstone (Jeweller's Guildmaster)
John Flavin - Sarostip Cold-eye (Humakti Sword)
Brian Forester - Blackmor the Peaceable (Colymar king)
Mark Foster - Oleas Quipp (Weaponmaster's Guildmaster)
Paul Gilles - Ormond Sacker-Sigerson (Lunar Advocate)
Mark Gilles - Goram Whitefang (Telmori bodyguard)
Ian Gorlick - Tiberius Augustus Hector (Lunar Sergeant-at-Arms)
Andrew Greenberg - Servizi Interbankeri (Moontown leader)
Paul Harmaty - Old Herb (a storyteller in Geo's)
Paul H. Heinz - Honest Gordon Greenhill (the bookie)
Rhys Hess - Arkator Longspear (Sun Dome Templar)
James Ho - Denis Quailfoot (the best thief in town)
Eric Jablow - Publicus the Punctilious (Aide to Gordius)
Barbara Jackson - Estal Donge (Temertain's consort)
Oliver Jovanovic - Groblob Grinlips (Shady dealer from Troll Corner)
Yvonne Kaplan - Malana Goodnight (Chalana Arroy healer)
John A. King - Torvald Rolfsson (Dinacoli king)
Curtis Lyons - Nimkin Fastcard (Foreign merchant)
Peter Maranci - Sir Tutophet Ixthanin (Knight of Heortland)
Finula McCaul - Terpitia Bosky (Etyries Merchant)
Mike McGloin - Constable Pugh
John Medway - Jubba the Hood (Lunar spymaster)
David Millians - Wertor Orindori (Tarsh Ambassador)
Mark Minster - Alvar Stormsson (Amad king)
Mark Mohrfield - Atticus the Travelled (Tarsh merchant)
Noel Montealegre - Tatius Bracegirdle (Reporter)
Michael O'Brien - Gordius Silverus (Lunar Provost and Governor)
Sue O'Brien - Alcapata Honorius (Tax collector)
Jeff Okamoto - Morak Moran (Head of the Underworld)
Alison Place - Nerissa Bracegirdle (Domestic Servant)
Madriel (Rebecca Bisbee) - Tamera Threeslice (Warrior-woman)
Paul Reilly - Sigilius Doyne (Etyries Merchant)
Roderick Robertson - Subatai of the Silken Tongue (Grazer Ambassador)
Neil Robinson - Antonio Smallheap (Jeweller's Guild apprentice)
Jim Rogers - Flavius Ginnicus (Gin Salesman)
Eric Rowe - Ontorius Threadneedle (Lunar bureaucrat)
Lawrence Schick - Portin Dunbar (Town Crier)
John Schmidt - Constable Dibble
Scott Schneider - Justin Blundar (Praxian "trader")
Michael Schwartz - Thufir Twosword (Humakti sword)
Malcolm Serabian - Aleham Ratsbane (Tarshite Lieutenant)
Rich Staats - Spensor Marksson (Issaries merchant)
Chris Stafford - Clem Beastwood (Bounty hunter)
Greg Stafford - Montague Goodcandle (Royal Librarian)
Michael Strathearn - Tonaling Hardblow (Enstalos king)
Curtis Taylor - Edruf Strongbreath (Malani king)
Kendra Tornheim - Ingie Thickfist (Local tough)
Hans van Halteren - Skalfi Blackbrow (Lismelder king)
John Walker - Ranulf Grimblade (Culbrea king)
Scott Watson - Ivar Quickstep (Cinsina king)
Andy Weill - Tolstoy Arrowroot (Union leader)
Jeannie Whited - Juliana Silverus (Gordius' fair daughter)
Robert Wolfe - Laertes Sciplilies (Stalwart Lunar officer)
Paul Woodmansee - Lergius Cassius (Lunar General)
Mike Young - Previous Horserider (Barman of Geo's)
Cheers,
David Hall
---------------------
From: medisinman@aol.com
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE RuneQuest
Message-ID: <9402172017.tn37362@aol.com>
Date: 18 Feb 94 01:17:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3127
UNSUBSCRIBE RuneQuest