From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 16 Mar 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: argrath@aol.com Subject: Race; Heortlings; TEB; ToRM Message-ID: <9403150800.tn26047@aol.com> Date: 15 Mar 94 13:00:50 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3319 Greg Fried writes, apropos of racial consciousness in RPGing: >So what about it: are RPGs an engine of Revolution or Reaction, > or just (a)pathetic Recreation?! Nice pun. I think the question answers itself. Some fantasies are like Tolkien, overtly racist. Glorantha is more of a 1960's/1970's sensibility, with equality of dignity built in, even if not equality of power or technology (by which Americans commonly measure moral worth). joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) writes: >Heortlings. Presumably from Heortland, and untainted by Hendriki >Malkioni practises. Heortlings are the children of Heort, as the name implies. Somewhat vaguely opposed to the Vingkotlings, or maybe the Vingkotlings are a subgroup, or maybe the Heortlings are a subgroup. Anyway, Heortland is the homeland of Heortlings, in the same sense, frex, that Kosovo is the homeland of all Serbs, but most of them don't live there. Anyway, the settlers of Sartar may not have purged all the Malkionism from their religion as much as they thought. Maybe the Aldachuri have a more pure Orlanthi cultus...? >I think the Third Eye Blue family in Apple Lane is very exotic, > and ironsmiths will normally be tied to the cults which provide > "Enchant Iron". Frankly, Apple Lane is a myth in my Glorantha. Spurious. Apocryphal. (Uh oh, now Issaries is going to Confound me for Criticizing Apple Lane.) Third Eye Blue families are the least of it--check out the RQ2-style salamander in the two-sided fireplace. Shoot, Sartarites in my world think you're living high on the hog if you can get most of the smoke to go out the smokehole in the roof! >If TEB smiths were comon, they'd be likely to traditionally be > indented to their place of work and living, simply because of > their Western Origin which tends to make peasant-class > inhabitants stay where the are. TEB spread over Peloria through > Carmania, and these feudal lords will have done their best to > land-bind them either by grants of land or sheer enforcement. Well, as someone who has tried to write a TEB cult, I appoint myself authority on their cultural patterns. What you say is how feudal lords would think, but a feudal lord withOUT a TEB smith would lure one away from his cousin's fiefdom down the road. Thus, TEB smiths would tend to become the original bourgeoisie, accumulating wealth and (therefore) status. Carmanian sumptuary laws probably began due to these guys. I said, >Tales of the Reaching Moon published a Gagarth cult some time >back. Just to clarify, this is the same as Sandy Petersen uploaded to the Daily. And you guys discussing ToRM #11--CUT IT OUT! I think Mike Dawson and David Gadbois are the only people in North America with copies, and it's not fair to discuss it till the rest of us get our copies. :-( --------------------- From: G.KERSHAW@elsevier.co.uk Subject: Tolat cult Message-ID: <_NW-SMF:20B9852D0146D620*_@MHS> Date: 15 Mar 94 13:31:04 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3320 Help! I have recently rolled up an Amazon from Trowjang who I want to play as an initiate of Tolat. Unfortunately the only information I have is that given in the Glorantha pack (ie that the cult is like a combination of Humakt and Uleria, plus some cultural background). Can anybody shed some light on the worship of this god? (BTW we play RQ2). (Duchess Erengazor of Sentanos) --------------------- From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski) Subject: Updated aution info. Message-ID: <9403151825.AA01703@tonto.ptltd.com.page> Date: 15 Mar 94 18:25:28 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3321 I got the stuff from my contact and looked it over to give you a rundown on what exactly is there. This message is going out in the next Daily RQ digest, and is being sent to all bidders prior to tommorrow's mailing. Terms: MINT: "Jeeze, I can't believe the condition!" like new. EXEL: "Wow, that's in great shape!" some creases or marks, but about as good as you can get for something that has been used. GOOD: "It's in pretty good shape." more marks then above, in actual marks or many page tears. But still in good shape and very usable. FAIR: "Not bad." A bit beat up in many ways, but still holding together. POOR: "Hmmm." Starting to fall apart. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RQ2 Rulebook -- Good Cover and pages slightly yellowed, binding starting to fail between pages 12 and 13, but otherwise in very good shape. Big Rubble Box -- Good Map -- Mint Episodes Book -- Mint Guide Book -- Mint Bribery Sheet -- Exel It appears to be missing the players guide (assuming I am reading the back of the box correctly. Box contains 4 pages torn from some source, which may well be the missing book. Pavis Box -- Good City Guide -- Mint Episodes Book -- Mint Insert -- Exel River of Cradels -- Exel (map) New Pavis -- Exel (map) Looking at the "what is in this box" I see no common knowledge book. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's the lot. Those who have bid, feel free to revise your bid. :) -- Burton --------------------- From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 15 Mar 1994, part 1 Message-ID: <9403151841.AA15895@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu> Date: 15 Mar 94 18:41:14 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3322 Paul Reilly here. First part of this post prompted by discussion on the RQ4 mailing list. On Divine Intervention: Let's go back to actual mythology for a minute. I think the Greek myths are familiar to the most people, so I will use them as an example. First, check out the Illiad and the Odyssey: lots of DI, people snatched from battle, etc. - seems to support the RQ 2 DI, useful for escaping, etc. Now an example that is a little more obscure but perhaps more Illuminating. Sisyphus (a smooth operator) is the guy who winds up in the Underworld pushing a rock up a hill; many people know him from this image (which may be repeated in Dante's Inferno.) MOre on him another time. Today, let's look at his brother Athamas. He has two sons, Phrixus and Leucon, and a daughter, Helle. Athamas has a wife, Nephele, created by Hera (Mrs. Zeus) from clouds (in another myth) but he gets tired of her smarmy ways (presumably due to being created directly by a major deity) and goes for another woman, Ino, by whom he has two kids. Hera gets angry at Athamas and lays a curse on him and his House, including the kids of Athamas and Nephele, on whose behalf she was getting angry. OK, the curse works itself out like this: When the crops fail, messengers are sent to get word on what to do from the invariably accurate but often obscure Oracle of Delphi. Ino wants her own kids to inherit, so she trumps up a false oracular pronouncement (by bribing the messengers who go to Delphi) that the famine is due to the supposed incest of Phrixus (Athamas' son) with his aunt. Still with me? The famine, according to Ino's false oracle, can only be stopped by the sacrifice of Phrixus as a sin-offering. Everyone's convinced, so Phrixus gets dragged off to the mountain to die. Heracles happens along and says "My father Zeus abhors human sacrifice!" They're prepared to go through with it anyway, but Hermes is ordered by either Zeus or Hera (stories differ) to send help. Hermes sends a flying winged talking golden ram down to rescue Phrixus. The would-be sacrificers are dumbfounded, and Phrixus climbs on board. His sister Helle is there, and asks him to take her with him. Phrixus pulls her on board and they fly off. However, she gets tired and falls off while they are over the straits dividing Europe and Asia, now called the Hellespont in her honor. The ram flies Phrixus to Colchis (on the Black Sea) and he promptly sacrifices his rescuer in Zeus' honor (some thanks, huh?) and its fleece stays there, prompting the expedition of the Argo some time later. The point is: Gods can send other gods on missions of Divine Intervention, and it can take strange forms. Glorantha may be different due to the Great Compromise. I'd go with the Gods can pretty much do whatever to rescue a worshipper (flying Golden Rams included) but if the DI is to be at all offensive, has to stick within his department as dictated by the Compromise. Note Helle gets offed, I'd say she actually made the POW sacrifice to save her brother and happened to roll exactly her own POW. Oops. Story from Grave's The Greek Myths. ----------------------- Alex writes: > I agree. Worship ceremonies are a bit of a mystery to anyone but Greg at ^^^^^^^ Is this a conscious play on words? >A worship ceremony takes the form of the reenactment of a particular myth: >in effect, is a minor heroquest. Each participant initiate takes the part >of one of the gods involved, usually according to the cult or particular >sub cult they belong to, or at least as close as is possible. How heavily Agree. I like to use India as a model for central Genertela, and this is one reason why: Indian ceremonies are much like this, with temple dramas, and with festivals where people have religious/traditional parts to act out. We are lucky to have a Hindu temple in Pittsburgh that is very kind about letting outsiders attend. The principle of Identification is very important in Glorantha; I will probably post something about this from Finula (which I sent to a magazine and am waiting for a reply on). Rune Lords take this to the extreme, they _become_ their god. (Priests mediate between the people and the god, Rune Lords embody the god in a display of sympathetic magic. More primitive cults will have Rune Lords only in many cases, or rune lords and Shaman priests who mediate between people and the spirits, including Gods. ) >, a cultist could easily be a member (or even priestess) >of three or four earth cults in her lifetime, which is somewhat extravagent >on the POW side under the RQ3 rules. I have played for many years under the assumption that Vorias turn into Ernaldans (or switch to Voria's other Side, Babeester Gor) who become Asrelians (or switch to Maran Gor). Asrelians may switch to Ty Kora Tek. Babeesteri may mature into Maran Gori, thence to Ty Kora Teki. Don't know if anyone ever switch back from Chthonic to Earth; it's rare. The switch to the 'dark' side is often induced by trauma. Rune magic already bought may mature or switch; if no equivalent it may become 1-use or remain as an Associate spell if that is part of the local cult structure. Flowers, for example, can mature into Bless Crops; this can change into Blast Earth. >I wonder about troublesome cases like Barntar and Voriof too, I admit: >My votes for Voriof spells: Find Sheep (1pt spirit), Cry Wolf (1pt rune). I have a Voriof writeup sitting around partially done. It of course included Find Sheep. Voriof the Youth bears the same relation to Orlanth that Voria the Youth bears to Ernalda. Voriof also offers Call Sheep, a rune magic exactly analogous to Call Followers, and which can "mature" into it, if you are lucky enough to be in Orlanth Rex. Young princes are set to watch the sheep, and thus learn to be good providers and protectors (and how to shear their followers, some say). Cf. Tristan, one of the three great Pig-Keepers of Britain. Barntar is a bit troublesome. He is as much or more Ernalda's son as Orlanth's. I have developed his cult a little but have no formal writeup; should do at some point. One thing we know is that adult Orlanthi can 'switch' to his cult, so it's not a developmental stage like Voriof (unless they are regressing) ---- I do like some of Nils Weinander's Eastern suggestions. I can accept Runes as Basic (The Spike was in the center, after all) or not as you please. The skill based suggestions are good; we run Kralorelan stuff a bit like this but systemless. On the other hand, we don't entirely restrict such things to Kralorela; True Art (rare) is _magical_ in itself; the artist puts a piece of his soul into it, but with no formal enchantment process. This is the basic process from which Enchantment was derived; it is a formalized skill based on enhancing and controlling the natural creative process that artists go through. Enchantment can be painful and unnatural, though. (I suppose Art can also...) >East Isles, which have divine worship and sorcery according to GoG. I have less objection to East Isles magic being described as "sorcery" but feel that as Vithelan offshoots they may practice mysticism. Unsure. Nick Brooke has been writing about the phallus god, and Greg Fried asks: >> rune? Or, an _unconscious_ accident, but a _subconscious_ intention? ... >> _deliberately_ cooking up an array of symbolism like that. >And, if deliberate, it would be _far_ less fun to expose... So the question arises: Why is it that finds exposing the Phallus symbol in Gloranthan myth? Is this deliberate or does he just have a subconscious urge to expose the Phallus whenever possible? :-) - Paul --------------------- From: carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink) Subject: the Jrusteli Message-ID: <199403152046.AA12947@panix.com> Date: 15 Mar 94 10:46:35 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3323 ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham) writes in part: >BTW, I think people are dumping too much on the God Learners. They did do >some terrible things, but they also did good things (e.g. Tradetalk is >handy both for us gamers and for Gloranthans, as are many of their >classifications). But they're wiped out, and probably nearly forgotten. I >doubt most Gloranthans know anything about them. Actually, almost everyone in Glorantha remembers the God Learners with terrible fear. I don't say that they know many facts about them, but almost everyone recalls them as destroyers and desecrators. See, among other sources, the Genertela box. --Carl --------------------- From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) Subject: A Lunar proposal Message-ID: <9403152136.AA09628@sonata.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 15 Mar 94 11:36:17 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3324 The question was raised on the RQIV playtest mailing list as to why, with all their solar elements, the Lunars are all so cyclical. I present the following hypothesis: To submit to the Lunar Way is to, in a way, learn a new magical language. Now, languages do not all have the same features. For example, English is a language with very little inflection, but word order is vital. Other languages can be more fast and loose with word order because they use extensive inflection. English has also dropped grammatic gender, something that other languages still cling to. So, using this analogy, to enter the Lunar Way is to learn to "speak to the world" with a "Lunar Tongue". One of the features of this tongue is its cyclic nature OUTSIDE OF THE GLOWLINE. But within the Glowline, BOOM! --------------------- From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) Subject: Thanks for the restoration. Message-ID: <9403152141.AA09696@sonata.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 15 Mar 94 11:41:54 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3325 I got several copies of my Teelo Norri writeup, thanks. (In fact, I got so many copies that I jumped over quota--but I caught it before the Terminator auto-clamped my account this time.) --------------------- From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham) Subject: initiates Message-ID: <199403152200.AA02687@radiomail.net> Date: 15 Mar 94 22:00:14 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3326 Alex said >"Individuals among the Orlanthi are defined by their age, [...], initiatory >status [...]." >This suggests that 'age' (non-adult, adult, etc) are not necesssarily >coincident with 'initiatory status' (non-initiate, initiate, etc). >Thus it would be possible to have an adult non-initiate. (Or a non-adult >Initiate??) I don't think so. "Initiatory status" means intiate, godi, priest, etc. I'm currently playing a character who's not an initiate of a religion. He's hoping to become initiated soon, so he can be considered an adult (and get girls). This is probably a bit loose, for gaming purposes (he'd probably have to go back to his clan along with a priest of whatever religion he picks to truly be initiated), but I think you can't be an Orlanthi adult without being a religous initiate (or similarly pledged to a Kolating). "More important than simply being initiated,w hich everyone does, is the particular deity to which a person is initiated." To me this implies that all initiates are initiated to a particular deity (or multi-deity cult like 7 Mothers), not to a pantheon. There are no generic initiates. >(PS, is Pendragon4 worth the #16 for the 40 new pages, of magic rules?) Those are about the only changes from the combination of Pendragon3 and Knights Adventerous, but it's a very interesting magic system. It's not strictly appropriate for Glorantha, but the idea that time and place matter when casting spells is taking root in my games. A simple RQ3 version would be to increase the chance of casting spirit magic to POW*6% if you're in your home hearth. Those magic pages will also help your understanding of Pagan Shore, a new supplement which is definitely worth it. It seems that much of Orlanthi culture is derived from the Irish Celts (with many differences, I hasten to add). ---------------------