From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 23 Mar 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 22 Mar 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <9403220825.AA19155@aft-ms.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 22 Mar 94 10:26:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3372
This should compensate for last weekend's deprivation...
RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 09:15:36 --100
> Message-Id: <9403220815.AA19022@aft-ms.Holland.Sun.COM>
> From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
> To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
> Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
> Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 22 Mar 1994, part 3
> Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland
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From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: RQIII Thieve's World
Message-ID: <9403220831.AA19203@aft-ms.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 22 Mar 94 08:31:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3373
Chris Cooke:
>I just purchased _Thieve's World_ but it appears that it is RQ2 not RQ3.
>Does anyone know where I can get updated information or eratta? Other
>then minor details like Tempus only having 95% sword(surrrre he does:-)
Thieves' World Companion provides RQ3 stats, and also covers the
background of the Beysib.
>It appears to have interesting possibilities. Where on Glorantha would
>a city like this fit? Nochet? Elsewhere? Any ideas on how to get my
>players from Sartar/Prax to it?
>--
There's an interesting town south of Hendrikei named `Refuge'...
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
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From: jdegon@vega.iii.com (Jim DeGon)
Subject: zebra-hide
Message-ID: <9403220951.AA13593@enrico>
Date: 21 Mar 94 17:51:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3374
Eric Rowe asks:
>It seems certain unruly Waha followers in my current campaign have
>taken a liking to Zebra-hide for their first real tent.
Sandy Petersen replies
>Why not just go out hunting and catch some feral zebras?
Unruly Sable Waha followers near Pavis wouldn't think of using wild
zebra-hides with so many despicable Zebra-Riders so close at hand.
The problem is getting _those_ zebra hides without getting killed
in the process.
Jim DeGon
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From: staats@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: RQ 3 Cacodemon writeup
Message-ID: <9403221538.AA28123@milanese.MIT.EDU>
Date: 22 Mar 94 15:38:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3375
Angus and RQ-dom,
There is a write up in ``Eldar Secrets''.
In service,
Rich
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From: james@maths.exeter.ac.uk
Subject: Convulsions dates wanted
Message-ID: <2256.9403221649@maths.exeter.ac.uk>
Date: 22 Mar 94 16:49:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3376
Hi,
I understand that there is another convulsion this year at Leicester again.
What are the dates for this, could someone email me details.
Thanks.
--
James Andrews, Computer Development Officer, Exeter University Maths Dept
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From: mike@rmf41.usace.army.mil
Subject: Reply to RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 22 Mar 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9403221827.AA16654@rmf41.usace.army.mil>
Date: 22 Mar 94 06:27:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3377
> X-RQ-ID: Intro
I got part 1 and part 3 today, was there a part 2 that I didnt get?
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From: SMITHH@mr.mgh.harvard.edu (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: misc.
Message-ID: <01HA9WKLLPC6PMUBRM@mr.mgh.harvard.edu>
Date: 22 Mar 94 08:35:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3378
>Chris Cook asks about Thieves World and how it fits.
I think somewhere in the original set, it mentions that the
Gloranthan location is Refuge, situated at the southern end of
Heortland and northeast of God Forgot on the border with Prax.
Roughly, the Ilsigi correspond to an old native population (God
Forgot refugees, perhaps, or a people similar to the Praxian
oasis peoples); the Rankans to the Lunar conquerors of Heortland;
and the Beysib to the Weartagi. It's a good meeting ground for
Praxians, Sartar/Heortland refugees, Lunars, God Forgot
islanders, and perhaps both Wolf Pirates and Vormain raiders.
There was a supplement put out by Chaosium (Thieves World
Companion?) which updated the work to RQIII, but I don't know if
it is still in print.
--Harald Smith
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9403222022.AA09032@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 22 Mar 94 08:22:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3379
Mike Dawson says:
>There may be many races in a species, but if they can interbreed and
>produce fertile offspring, they are the same species.
The first part of this is true, (a species can contain many
races), but technically, there are many organisms which no one thinks
are the same species which are able to interbreed and produce fertile
offspring. For that matter, there are cases where organisms that
everyone agrees belong to the same species but are nonetheless unable
to interbreed. The whole species definition is rather hazy,
genetically speaking.
But in any case, it's clear that real-world analogies do not
necessarily apply to Glorantha, in which beings that are manifestly
normally incapable of breeding succeed in doing so. For instance, I
imagine that producing a half-elf is more than just a matter of sex
with an elf -- some sort of magic support is needed, too. I don't
know of any cases where troll/human hybrids have been confirmed.
Urrgh the Ugly was accused of being a half-troll, but that may have
just been an insult based on his low APP (4) and equally low INT (4
by RQ 2 rules). The tusk riders are supposedly half-trolls, but are
clearly the product of EWF experimentation and magic.
>I think it is a great disservice to think of all species as the same
>underneath, with different cultures making them differ.
Hear, hear! I agree profoundly.
>Cruelty is GOOD to a troll. Cruelty makes your friends strong,
>Cruelty makes jokes funny, it feeds the family, it preseves order.
>Mercy is a LIE, a false promise.
I agree with this, but I think it may even be deeper than Mike
implies. I think that Cruelty is so natural to a troll that it isn't
even necessarily considered a virtue. It's just part of the way
things are. Trolls are cruel unconsciously, without thinking. It is
the natural thing to do, just like when a human feels an itch, he
scratches. Maybe callousness is a better term for it. I don't think
trolls take pleasure in torture and sadism, for instance (except for
the humor value), they just lack empathy.
In an early Chaosium campaign event, a PC was captured by a
troll. The troll decided to hold the PC for ransom, and proceeded to
eat him limb by limb while waiting for the ransom money to arrive.
The entire time, he kept going on and on about how kind and nice he
was being to the human. "Look!" he said, "I'm leaving you one of your
eyes to see with. I'm such a nice guy. The other trolls call me a
sissy, but I'm really just sensitive." He ate both the guy's legs,
both his arms, one eye, and one ear, taking two weeks to do so.
>Sure, there are plenty of stern, mean spirited cultures in
>humanity's past--but I don't believe there is a one that managed to
>be as MEAN and CRUEL as an ordinary troll is.
I agree that no human culture has been as callous as any
troll culture. But on the other hand I think that an extremely cruel
and twisted human is crueler than any troll (personal discussion with
Greg).
>I'm sure every other species in Glorantha has its own special brand
>of what is rightly called inhumanity.
Yep. But let's not take this into the realm of cultural relativism.
Every RQ player is a human, and humans are (naturally) the center of
the Glorantha universe, the pivot by which all other creatures are
judged.
I think wind children are flightier (pun not really intended
than we are, with as long an attention span as a four-year-old tot.
Elves are dark brooding things, meditating on cold-blooded
secrets that would drive any human mad, were he to be made fully
aware of them. Elves have little or no sense of "self", and death to
them is no more than the loss of a leaf from a tree.
Dwarfs are soulless, emotional as a stone, fascinated by
mind-numbingly dull minutia, and selfish beyond the dreams of the
most villainous human.
Suggestions for the morokanth? (Beyond my belief that they
are perfectly willing to eat sentient humans.)
I think ducks are just somewhat exaggerated humans
pychologically. Perhaps that's why they get along so well with
humans. Making them "alien" removes much of the fun in playing 'em.
Lewis Jardine(?) asks:
>From the Glorantha book in the boxed set we learn about regional
>variations in time of the day and also the calendar. For Pamaltela
>we are merely told that it is made up of 4 seasons of 12 six-day
>weeks and a 6 day holyweek at the end of the year which is analogous
>to Sacred Time.
1) What are the days of the week called?
Stone-day, "Chieftainess"-day, Gata-day, Witch-day,
"Goddess"-day, Pamalt-day
CHIEFTAINESS-DAY: Note that among the modern Doraddi there
are no female chieftains. Nonetheless, this word exists, if only to
refer to this day of the week.
GODDESS-DAY: insert for the word "Goddess" the name of the
local land goddess. i.e., in Jolar it is termed Nomiama-day.
2) What are the week names?
In Jolar, they were just called First-week, Second-week, etc.
No doubt they are called something different elsewhere.
3) Are the seasons spring, summer, autumn, winter or something else?
Yes, along the coasts.
Some people in Jolar call them Rain, Sky, Shadow, and Storm,
corresponding to the first four elements (not counting Earth, which
is omnipresent).
Chris Cooke asks:
>I just purchased _Thieve's World_ but it appears that it is RQ2 not
>RQ3. Does anyone know where I can get updated information or eratta?
Alas, you'll have to do it yourself.
>It appears to have interesting possibilities. Where on Glorantha
>would a city like this fit? Nochet? Elsewhere? Any ideas on how to
>get my players from Sartar/Prax to it?
The city of Refuge at the southern tip of Heortland is, in fact,
"Sanctuary". It is inhabited by the same sort of low-life scum that
are the backbone of Pavis, and includes an "old style" of rule that
is basically Brithini. In the Chaosium house campaign, we just used
the maps and personalities from Sanctuary mostly. The stats were, of
course, not too useful.
Sandy Petersen
---------------------
From: jeffjoh@microsoft.com
Subject: Thieves' World
Message-ID: <9403222102.AA23949@itgmsm>
Date: 22 Mar 94 21:01:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3380
Chris Cooke asked about RQ3 stats for Thieves' World (the original
had only RQ2 stats).
RQ3 stats for the original Thieves' World characters and the new
appearances all the way up to the Beysibs were published in the
'Thieves' World Companion'. This also contained a nice article on
the various pantheons of gods. I have no idea if this is very
common; it is almost certainly out of print.
Jeff Johnson
---------------------
From: ANDERSJC@howdy.Princeton.EDU
Subject: March miscellany
Message-ID:
Date: 22 Mar 94 21:49:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3381
This is being posted for Paul Anderson, on Janet Anderson's account:
My apologies for not commenting in more timely fashion:
Sandy:
Of course you meant the Visigoths. Sorry I was so slow.
On Yelorna:
The Praxian Unicorn Goddess probably has a Praxian name and myth, of which
"Yelorna" is the closest translation, as Latin writers have always spoken of
Woden (and Thoth) as Mercurius despite the differences between them. I wouldn;t
be suprised to find Pelorian texts speaking of Babeester Gor as 'Yelorna'/
David Dunham:
>Would steel be as much better than iron as iron is to bronze?
I understand that (early iron age) iron is _not_ significantly better than
bronze. It is much cheaper, largely because you don't have to haul the copper
or tin or both from the far corners of the earth, but it does tend to be quite
brittle. After all , this is a low-carbon, no nickel alloy, which is worked not
cast. For unenchanted iron I roll as follows: whenever the weapon/shield would
lose an AP, roll a D100; if the result is <= AP lose that many, otherwise one.
On Runes:
IMHO the Runes are a very useful approximation to the way Glorantha works,
in the same sense that Aristotle's physics, Newtonian mechanics, and classical
General Relativity are very useful approximations to the way our universe
wroks. Like all of these, however, the Rune system is _not_ an exact
description and is erroneous in principle. [People who wish to argue with my
parallel sould do so with me. I do not wish to talk math on the daily.]
According to the Glorantha Pak (I:24), the God Learners discovered the
Runes as patterns in the world, which they then imposed where they were not
already apparent. They assumed that the Runes were a complete Theory of
Everything, which was and is not true. Had they been, the Goddess-Switch would
have worked.
As a useful approximation, Runes should be useful to shamans and sorcerors
alike (especially sorcerors, since the Jrusteli began as sorcerors). Note that
the division sorcery/divine magic/ spirit magic is also a GL construct, and
misleading both in what it lumps together and what it splits: Malkioni
'sorcery' and Eastern 'sorcery' are not the same thing, but a Theyalan priest
can learn some spirit magic. He will have severe difficulties being a shaman,
but it would seem more natural to account them as of the same kind as being
Priest of two different gods.
Martin Crim:
Could you send the H & M cults to us (andersjc@howdy.princeton.edu)?
I will be writing on initiations/ cult memebership in a separate
contribution, but the argument seems to involve five questions:
A What are adolescent initation and cult membership stages under RQ2 rules?
B What are adolescent initation and cult membership stages under RQ3 rules?
C What are adolescent initation and cult membership stages, according to
the literary sources (KoS, parts of Glorantha Pak,...)?
D What are adolescent initation and cult membership stages in Glorantha as
I run it?
E What are adolescent initation and cult membership stages in Glorantha as
you run it?
I have no intention of meddling with how you run Glorantha, although I will
be happyto perquade people. Some contributions are phrased as though this were
a question worth going One-True-World about. There are such questions (e.g., is
there a Lunar Empire) but I don't think this is one.
---------------------
From: argrath@aol.com
Subject: Shadows under Red Moon; etc.
Message-ID: <9403221827.tn30619@aol.com>
Date: 22 Mar 94 23:27:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3382
Lahtinen Antti Jussi writes:
>I greatly prefer the way the elves are described in Elder Secrets
>and 'In Shadows under Red Moon'. The 'shadows tells very much >about the
vronkali, and it does not directly disagree with ES in >any place.
Where can I get a copy of "In Shadows under Red Moon"? I thought I knew of
all the published sources, but this is a new one on me.
David Cheng writes:
>I suggest we abandon all such silly Earth analogues. Elf blood is >green
_because they're walking plants_. Period. How do I know? >Because my uncle
told me, and he's fought and killed elves four >times. They was raiding down
from the Stinking Forest.
>The only such blood metal-typing I would approve of is Mostali. ...
>Trolls obviously have more Darkness [in their bodies], ...
While I try to avoid One-true-worldism, I think the above is a more
Gloranthan view than saying that elves have copper in their blood (even
though copper is the earth metal). We know that objects fall toward the
ground because of the love of the earth for them; all Gloranthan science
works on what are (to our perspective) magical principles.
"Plant" is not an Element, like Darkness and the rest are, but it is a
Power. Thus, dead plants gradually lose their plant-ness as they decay and
the Earth element in them becomes dominant (or Water or Darkness for plants
tied to those runes). Elf blood is green when it is fresh, because it has
high plant-ness. As it ages, I imagine it turns brown, revealing the
underlying earth-ness.
This makes funerary rites in Glorantha really appropriate--trolls turn
their dead into darkness, dwarves into stone (at least symbolically, by
entombing), yelmites into fire, Orlanthi into wind (via smoke), and earth
cultists into Earth (via burial). The ultimate honor for a lunar cultist is
burial on the Moon. Return to the Element.
My thanks go to Jesper Wahrner for his outstanding "culture shock" story
about the Humakti in Sog. Well done. I imagine it _was_ a "rather
faithshaking experience for old Baboc."
--Martin Crim (argrath@aol.com)
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: God Learners, initiation, cruelty, etc.
Message-ID: <199403230006.AA21664@radiomail.net>
Date: 23 Mar 94 00:06:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3383
Carl Fink replied to me
> Actually, almost everyone in Glorantha remembers the God Learners with
>terrible fear. I don't say that they know many facts about them, but
>almost everyone recalls them as destroyers and desecrators.
What I meant was not that Gloranthans didn't know that they were baddies,
but that they didn't know much about the details, and certainly wouldn't be
quick to accuse anyone of God Learner tendencies since they'd have no idea
what those tendencies were.
Alex asked me
>I take it means you think initiation into tribe and religion is done as a
>_single_ ritual, then, not merely that both are required for Adulthood?
Or at least two rituals virtually back-to-back (depending on holy days). It
just seems that you're not an adult until you're a religious initiate. I
haven't worked out all the ramifications (e.g. the Lhankor Mhy apprentice).
Mike Dawson said
>there are many reports of trolls and humans interbreeding
I always figured inter-species breeding required magic.
>Cruelty is GOOD to a troll
In my PenDragon Pass, Kyger Litor's virtues are Vengeful, Selfish, Cruel,
Proud, and (of course) Indulgent. These are VERY different from Orlanth's
virtues. (As I see it, pantheon leaders define the culture with their
virtues.)
Angus Laidlaw asked
>Does anyone know if there has been an RQ 3 writeup of cacodemon?
Elder Secrets. See also Shadows on the Borderlands. (A recent issue of The
Wild Hunt has a cult index.)
Chris Cooke said
>I just purchased _Thieve's World_ but it appears that it is RQ2 not RQ3.
I don't think there's an RQ3 version. Chaosium supposedly used the city
Refuge for Sanctuary. You'll find it conveniently located near the south
tip of Heortland, accessible to both Sartarites and Praxians.
Bryan Maloney wonders
>Does RuneQuest Adventures have an email address? If so, what is it?
grendel@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu
Looking at the map of Genertela, I'm struck by the fact that Krjalki Bog
must be a source of water in the Wastes. I'm sure it's a real temptation
for many Praxian tribes -- if you make sure your warriors are extra alert,
you can get good grazing for your herds on its fringes.
BTW, I'd consider it sad if Griffin Island is let go out of print. While
it's nowhere near as good as its predecessor (Griffin Mountain), it's still
a decent campaign (if incomplete) with good handouts. I'm using it for a
campaign and have been basically pleased with it. Is the idea to let all
but Gloranthan supplements go out of print? I thought the advantage of
Avalon-Hill was that stuff would stay in print (unlike Griffin Mountain).
---------------------
From: ABEAN@GEEL.DWT.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Bean)
Subject: RQ Adventures Australian Distributor
Message-ID: <940323140334.20203437@GEEL.DWT.CSIRO.AU>
Date: 24 Mar 94 01:03:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3384
G'day one and all,
In coincidence with David Cheng's rave review on RQ Adventures 3 I am
proud to announce that I am now the Australian distributor for RQ
Adventures. I have issues 1 and 2 at the printer now and will be
distributing them at subscriptions of:
A$16 for 3 issues or,
A$5.50 for the 1st issue to have a look see, and then as above.
All Australians out there who are interested in subscribing please contact
me for further info. or to get my snailmail address to send a cheque. I
will also be at Conquest in Melbourne over Easter (GMing the RQ) if people
want to see me there.
Hoping to be trampled in the rush :-)
Andrew
---------------------
From: jdegon@vega.iii.com (Jim DeGon)
Subject: Cacodemon
Message-ID: <9403230656.AA10848@enrico>
Date: 22 Mar 94 14:56:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3385
Angus asks:
Does anyone know if there has been an RQ 3 writeup of cacodemon?
I believe that this is in Elder Secrets.
Jim DeGon
---------------------