From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 25 Mar 1994, part 2
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
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From: carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: The Jrusteli
Message-ID: <199403250337.AA21496@panix.com>
Date: 24 Mar 94 17:37:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3406
ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham) writes:
R>What I meant was not that Gloranthans didn't know that they were baddies,
>but that they didn't know much about the details, and certainly wouldn't be
>quick to accuse anyone of God Learner tendencies since they'd have no idea
>what those tendencies were.
Oh. Yeah. In my games, some people call anyone who acts strange and
who knows unusual magic "God Learner", the way the superstitious of
Earth used to call anyone odd a "witch". They do not, in fact, know
anything about the GLs, but that doesn't stop them from making
accusations.
Remember, the anti-GLs are *proud* of being ignorant.
I've just received my copy of the _Glorious Reascent_. Was Arraz
mentioned in any previous source? I don't recall him. To me,
introducing a new brother for Yelm at this point is like having the
murderer first appear ten pages before the end of a mystery story.
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From: jesper.wahrner@hts.ct.se (Jesper Wahrner)
Subject: Roleplaying Mostali
Message-ID: <2d921cb2@hts.ct.se>
Date: 24 Mar 94 19:05:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3407
SP> One way I explain to my players how to roleplay or understand
SP> the various Elder Races is: Trolls = the Id. Dwarfs = The Ego. Elves
SP> = The Superego. While this isn't exactly a perfect description,
SP> players and GMs running such characters in accordance with that
SP> description are more often right than wrong, in my experience.
I think that this is fine with trolls and elves, but I'm not so sure
with dwarves. I feel that roleplaying an orthodox mostali would be
very much like roleplaying an intelligent robot in a SF-game. It should
be able to relate to areas within its own sphere of competence easily
but be bewildered when confronted with something outside of it, even if
this is a nominally trivial thing such as boiling water. The ideal
orthodox mostali would lack any personality of its own (two different
mostali with equal skills would behave in the exact same manner in any
given situation), but this ideal mostali would be rather rare if it
exists at all since the machine is broken and the world imperfect.
The various heresies might, of course, be less "robotic" though
this need not be the case. (And in the case of some of them they might
even be more so.) An individualist that is not broken, might pick
up a few interests outside of his daily chores and thus develop
competence in different areas aside from those needed in his work,
but he would still be at a loss when trying to deal with anything else.
I picture an openhandist merchant dwarf as someone who has undergone
a corporate personality training and respond to communication from
prospective traders in a set way, smiling all the time, and ending
every discussion with "Have a Nice Day!" no matter how ridiculous this
sounds.
Apostate dwarves are different of course. The broken dwarves have to
pick up knowledge and behaviourpatterns that are alien to normal mostali.
If they survive the first few years they might come around to behave
rather normally. I think that certain human behaviour would remain as
alien to a mostali as dragonnewt behaviour is to humans though. I'm
thinking specifically on such things as humour, irony and sarcasm. The
practice of using metaphors in language might be so too although a bright
apostate or specifically trained ortodox might get around to master this.
No dwarf understands humour and responds to sarcastic statements as if
they were statements of fact or outright lies or misunderstandings.
Well, this is how things works in my campaign anyway...
Yours,
Jesper
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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Horses (and zebras) of the Sun; God Learners
Message-ID: <199403250749.AA10477@radiomail.net>
Date: 25 Mar 94 07:49:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3408
Sorry for putting this in the Daily, but at RQ-Con, I promised several
players in my "Horses of the Sun" scenario a copy of the PenDragon Pass
rules. I think I lost an address or two -- I have Jim Z and Gilbert P, but
I think I got another one, with a drawing. If you asked me for a copy, and
haven't gotten it, please e-mail me. Also, if anyone has Elistina's sheet,
I need a copy so the scenario can be run in Australia.
BTW, I'm interested in getting all the Grazer info from Home of the Bold,
for use in the Grazelands supplement I'll probably be writing. Does David
Hall or Brandon B have all of it to send, or should I get it from
individuals (thanks, Roderick!)?
I remember at one time being told that zebras weren't ridable, and could
only answer that Glorantha wasn't Earth. Well, a friend sent me a clipping
showing a woman standing next to her saddled zebra. Zebras aren't horses,
however: "When he gets a sweet, for example, Val [the zebra] will scoot it
close to a horse in the stable next to him and share. Even though horses
are in the same equine family as zebras, they would never share, Seferovich
[the owner] said, but rather hoard their food."
Bryan Maloney said
>The Godlearners are the "Godlesss Commies" of Glorantha. Nobody really
>knows what or who they were, but they were evil, and they did strange
>things and asked too many questions and made too many strange things.
The God Learners died nearly 600 years ago. The name today probably has as
much connection with the actual people as the term "vandal" does today.
There are probably more clear and present dangers for suspicious people to
be associated with -- if a God Learner showed up in Sartar, he might just
as easily be accused of being a Lunar Empire spy.
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From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9403250805.AA24900@aft-ms.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 25 Mar 94 08:05:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3409
Ahh.... another bit of Gloranthan trivia...
Where's my RQ Companion... Snip Snip, Paste...
----8<-----------------------------------------------------
> The Kitori tribe is a fine example of "Good trolls". This
>tribe, which lives in a large forest in northern Heortland
>(can't recall the forest's name) is part human, and
>part troll. The most popular god in the tribe is Argan
>Argar. They have both a troll queen and a human chieftain,
>who make joint decisions on matteris of import. They claim
>to never interbreed, "unlike foul Tusk Riders", despite
>scandalous and ribald accusations. Some folks say Urrgh
>the Ugly was originally Kitori.
------------------------------------------------>8---------
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: GRoY - a first thorough look by Joerg
Message-ID:
Date: 25 Mar 94 08:09:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3410
Some speculations about "The Glorious Reascent of Yelm"
Timeline:
1. Interesting fact: counting of years before Time
The Dara Happans had a time reckoning even before Time. So did most (if
not all) of the other peoples. This means that Godtime before the
Compromise cannot have differed too much from Time.
2. Comparison of Kralori Emperors and Dara Happan gods
Dara Happa Kralori
1. The One Aether Primolt
2. Yelm Yelm
3. Antirius Metsyla, Light of Enlightenment
4. Kargzant Shavayah, Emperor of Splendor
5. Shargash Daruda, Dragon Emperor
6. Thalurzni, Balancer of Elements
7. Mikaday, Watcher of the Populace
8. Vayobi, hist. Emperor, reformer of language
"Metsyla was created by Yelm to teach others spiritual truths." Maybe
another component of Yelm the Dara Happans lost track of - in this case
a contemporary of Antirius, as described above - else a contemporary of
Yelm, in this case as well as Shavayah, Emperor of Splendor, a parallel
to Murharzam. Then Daruda must have been Emperor when the lesser
Darkness began - why else look for a different way of life?
Metsyla might have connections with Indarthrad, Yellow Overseer of the
West, Keeper of the Insight.
Thalurzni's epithet seems to indicate the Compromise, although his
actions are mostly directed against the Kingdom of Ignorance under
Basko.
Mikaday and Vayobi can have ruled within Time. Other names of Emperors
are Vashanti (the ninth Emperor?), Shang-hsa the God Learner and
Godunya.
3. Comparison Dara Happan Godtime and Orlanthi and troll myths
Gore and Gash had several encounters with "Yelmalio" on their way
south. Some of these are recorded in Dara Happan history. After the
Thrown Mountains Battle they turned westward and met an alliance of
Green Elves and remnants of the Dara Happan Empire "aided by Yelmalio"
- probably Shargash, under the reign of Antirius, probably before the
flood, else under Urvairinus "the Conqueror" (who lost two of seven
cites in his reign).
Another battle was won by the trolls at the mouth of the Oslir, near
the Dara Happan city of Mernita (destroyed under Urvairinus).
Chaos suspiciously avoided Dara Happa - probably when Dara Happa was
roofed.
In the roofed Dara Happa I recognized much of the Orlanthi myth of
Orlanth and Aroka.
The Blue Tribe (KoS 69) is mentioned in GRoY as the descendants of
Bethegus, living in modern Carmania. In my reading, the monster which
swallowed Heler can have been the dome over Dara Happa which covered
the Blue Dragon (KoS 56) aka Oslir River. Urvairinus had conquered the
warlike Ram people (sheep are associated with Heler, and Heler is one
of the Orlanthi war gods) and stole their deity, the Iron Ram.
(Bethegus links to Annilla aren't mentioned, but likely to have
existed.)
As long as the Dome had not been built, rain could fall free on all
lands. Only when the Iron Ram was used for the northern head of the
Dara Happan dome, rain ceased to fall outside of it. Heler had been
trapped inside the Blue Dragon, or the Oslir River bed.
Orlanth came "out of the north to attack" and ripped the jaws of Aroka
apart (KoS 70) - lifted the north end of the Dara Happan dome - and
freed Heler.
The Iron Ram remained there until the reign of Manimat, when Barntar
brought Heler to Orlanth's stead. (Source: "The Orlanth pantheon")
4. Comparison of ST dates and YS dates
222 ST/ 111222 YS: Ascendency of Khordavu
ca 230 ST/ 111230 YS: Battle of Argentium Thri'ile
extrapolated:
1222 ST/ 111222 YS: new change in Solar deity, new Age (of Nysalor?)
1220 ST/ 111220 YS: Red Goddess born
1232 ST/ 111232 YS: Red Goddess returns from her heroquest with Nysalor
and begins to conquer Dara Happa (from Carmanians), sometime around
this time the Red Emperor must have been born, because he appears as
hero at Castle Blue.
On the whole, YS and ST seem to be about 8-10 years off, which need not
have mythical significance. Viewed in light of these dates, both the
Theyalan dominance and the Carmanian rule over Dara Happa were minor
annoyances, and the Nysalor experiment happened prematurely, although
preparing the way for his reascendance joined with the Red Goddess.
The 1621 ST Dara Happans would most probably say:
"Since 112,222 YS (1222 ST) we live in the Age of Nysalor, and it will
last for about another 9600 years, before the final Age of the world
will begin, lasting 100,000 years."
Miscellanea from the Gods Wall
Umatum is shown displaying a _huge_ genital. A remembrance of
Vadrus/Ragnaglar? "Rebellus Terminus" is applied to all Storm gods
without discrimination, it seems.
Of the "Ten Sons of Lodril" two are female, not counting Mohenjar, or
else one is missing.
Griffon is depicted as female and hostile (Galgarenge, GW2-25), but at
the Wedding contest she claims to have given birth to a son of Yelm -
presumably King Griffon. (Interesting: the claim that King Griffon is
not a true son of Yelm, p.10.)
There are two gods of the club (GW2-24 and GW3-11), a weapon not
commonly associated with either sky, fire or earth.
The goat (GW3-20) seems to be one animal out of many, no bad (brooic)
associations in Dara Happa.
Sagit(t)us (GW3-17) is listed among the gods of the Earth. Strange.
The Solar concept of Justice finally convinced me why the Yelmites
don't view Orlanth as just:
p.5, Footnote 7 says "Justice. So-called, but literally _Denseb_,
''Measured Command of Above,'' or Divine Order"
Orlanth doesn't command from above, but as impartial, chosen judge. He
knows the contestants' problems and claims from own experience, whereas
Yelm takes pride in _not_ knowing the concerns of daily and earthbound
life.
More later.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
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