From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 02 Apr 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: SMITHH@mr.mgh.harvard.edu (Harald Smith 617 726-2172) Subject: games/sports Message-ID: <01HANIWB7TD2PMTZVI@mr.mgh.harvard.edu> Date: 1 Apr 94 02:35:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3483 Hello everyone-- Although the speculation about national/regional sports has been interesting, I think for a 'Bronze Age' flavored world most such sports are extremely unlikely. Since most of the world's population does not live in cities, but in small villages, you are unlikely to have enough people to play sports that require large teams. Most games such as soccer or baseball are urban developments of the early modern to modern world. Far more likely in the villages are wrestling matches (certainly popular in my development of Imther and also IMO in any Orlanthi based culture) or games involving a limited number of teens or young adults utilizing the cultural weapons be they javelins, spears, bows, etc. And in the nomadic areas where most people spend their time looking after the herds or hunting (just surviving day-to-day), you are unlikely to have any sports except at major tribal gatherings (again picturing games or competitions which emphasize the cultural weapons or skills). Instead of transposing earth games, I think we should be starting with the local village/tribal cultures and work up, developing unique Gloranthan games like Shield Push. The games is towns and cities are most likely then enhancements, enlargements, or formalizations of the old village/tribal games. --Harald Smith --------------------- From: jpolk@opus.starlab.csc.com (James Polk) Subject: Sports, Broos, RQ:AiG Message-ID: <9404011440.AA01723@opus.starlab.csc.com> Date: 1 Apr 94 14:40:03 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3484 Ooops, forgot to load my text file. Let me try again! --------------------- From: jpolk@opus.starlab.csc.com (James Polk) Subject: Broos, Sports, RQ:AiG Message-ID: <9404011442.AA01807@opus.starlab.csc.com> Date: 1 Apr 94 14:42:49 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3485 Joe Lannom re: Groups of Broos How about a Scourge of Broos, or a Trouble of Broos? Gloranthan Sports: It seems to me villages cannot support the big team sports of which many people speak. I think wrestling would be popular, and also skill contests relating to local jobs, such as smithing, lumberjacking, and herd raiding. Additionally, in any society which spends 90+% of its time trying to keep themselves alive (Nomads in the Wastes, the RQ 2 Balazarlings), these contests would occur only during special events, such as Sacred Time celebrations. When one spends all one's time trying to get enough to eat, games don't seem very important. RQ:AiG: I would like to ask people to _stop_ speculating on the whys and where- fores until Greg has a chance to tell the RQ Daily world his side. Thoughts about how RQ will die without RQ:AiG seem premature. In fact, from what I have read, RQ:AiG may still be published, albeit after some changes. I see a lot of intense emotion in some of the messages and ask people to give themselves (and others) a chance to calm down before continuing the debate. - james --------------------- From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) Subject: various subjects Message-ID: <9404011625.AA28580@idcube.idsoftware.com> Date: 1 Apr 94 04:25:56 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3486 re: RQ4 MOB mentions that Steve Martin is no expert on RQ rules. This is probably true. However, I am, and I, too had serious reservations about the rules changes in RQ 4. Joe Lannom sez: many sensible things about broos. And also ... >I don't remember exactly where, perhaps in the Borderlands pack >(running that, currently), the broo's reproductive habits are >described. Hmm.In the RQ III Creatures book it mentions that broos can hybridize with almost anything. >Broo, when born, try VERY hard to get away, as they are usually born >to someone/thing that is NOT pleased at being a host for such an >abomination Most animals trot off into a quiet area to give birth, especially when feeling ill. Hence, I suspect many larval broos get away, given that they are quite precocious (able to walk, bite, etc. at birth). Another factor helping the larvae escape is the fact that quite often an entire herd will "birth" at once, since they were all impregnated on the same night by the same broo. I suspect that fairly often, an entire group of several dozen feral broos escape at once to grow up together. My own theory is that most broos do not take long at all to reach maturity -- a year or two, tops, much like a cow or other herd animal. Carl Fink sez: >It was always my impression that Trollball was a parody of American >Football. Of course, Sandy Petersen is reading this, and he sort of >invented it. Why are we speculating? Despite my authorship of (half of) TROLLPAK and long-time defense of and research into trolls I did not invent Trollball.I think Charlie Krank was the chief villain behind this sport. And yes, Trollball is a sort of parody of sandlot football, but of course less violent. Trollball is as much a mockery of trolls as anything. Other sports: Mostali: Human-tossing (modeled after a popular American tavern sport involving the tallness-challenged) Yelmalio: King of the Hill Morocanth: Pin the hand on the human (modeled on a popular Praxian game) Babeester Gor: Kickball (not the version you're thinking of) Uleria: submarine races Broos: Let's not think about it. Carl Fink also sez: >I had always figured that krarshtkids were fragments of the Maw >squeezed off when Larnste stomped her. Sold. a convincing argument. --------------------- From: PATERNO@D0GS04.FNAL.GOV Subject: RE: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 01 Apr 1994, part 1 Message-ID: <940401105343.4e802067@D0GS04.FNAL.GOV> Date: 1 Apr 94 04:53:43 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3487 MOB says: "I would actually like to practise haruspication on the looney right renascent Thatcherite fascist bucaneers who tried to close our school, very Roman, and could be written into our biology program." It's bad enough to have the RQ:AiG politics cluttering a friendly discussion group. Could we please keep the real-world politics out? Marc --------------------- From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried) Subject: broo-hoo-hoo! Message-ID:Date: 1 Apr 94 17:12:33 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3488 Joe, How about this one: A sphincter of broos. I think that gets the idea across.... -- GF --------------------- From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson) Subject: realities; changing the rules Message-ID: <9404011728.AA12103@condor> Date: 1 Apr 94 17:28:07 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3489 > What's the difference between a reality that was always "there," > but was unknown before you entered it, and a reality called into > being by your attempts to exit your old world? To the participant (RQ character) there is no perceptable difference. But from a external creator's-eye-view, we (the GM & players) know that there are many possible Gloranthan realities out there. For starters, other people's Gloranthas, though different from our own, are equally valid. Also, much history of the past and future has been published. We may not choose to use all of it, but its apparent that our RQ characters *could* experience any of these possible realities if we wanted them to. A character might only be aware of one Gloranthan reality. We (the GMs & players) should at least acknowledge know that there are many. It's not the character's beliefs which shape its reality; if anything its the players beliefs which determine it. For me, the "multiple realities" model provides the benefit of One True World (which basically boils down to objective consistency) but with the flexibility to have Many True Realities. It explains why certain source material (whether published or home-grown) can conflict with other source material. Both source are equally valid depending upon which reality you view from. What more could you ask for? :-) ___ And, if I may, I'll tenuously link this to what Sandy said: > I resort to one of three techniques when I am changing an old rule or > introducing a new one, and the players don't like the alteration to > their game. [...] A fourth technique would be to induct the characters into a mini Heroquest and then tell the players afterwards that the rule-change was a side-effect of shifting to another reality. ___ CW. --------------------- From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) Subject: What to call a group of Broo Message-ID: <9404012148.AA21399@sonata.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 1 Apr 94 11:48:37 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3490 Well, one thing does sort of leap to mind on this: A MOB of Broo. How's that sound, eh? --------------------- From: ECZ5RAR@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Anthony Ragan) Subject: RQ:AiG Message-ID: <9404020027.AA22102@Sun.COM> Date: 2 Apr 94 00:27:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3491 Hi all, (Sorry to post this here, but I don't get the RQ4 group and since the letters were cross-posted here.....:>) Like most of us, I don't know why Greg denied approval of RQ:AiG -- I hope the matter gets sorted out soon and then we can all look forward to the Glorious Reascent of Runequest. :> This crisis gives all concerned a chance to reassess the kind of product we'd like to see so, with the hope of having a bit of influence, let me throw in my two bolgs' worth: 1) Keep it Simple. I love Chaosium's Basic Roleplay system -- I think it's an amazingly flexible vehicle for roleplay. But RQ in its current incarnation (RQ3, I've never seen any draft of RQ4) involves too many clumsy mechanics that get in the way: strike ranks (nice idea, clumsy execution); variable modifiers based on stats that change (a pain to keep track of at tense moments); and fatigue. I'm sure there are others that escape me at the moment. Now, I love tactical options in combat and some measure of realism (if such a word can ever be logically applied to an rpg), but things that involve extensive book-keeping get in the way (IMHO, of course) of the excitement. What I as a consumer would like to see is a simplified RQ based on Basic Roleplay, a la Call of Cthulhu or Elric. (I think Loren proposed something similar as RQ Lite) I don't think anyone will deny that these are elegant games. The more bookkeeping-intensive elements could be kept in an appendix to be added in modular fashion by those who like them. 2) Write the rule book in such a way that those of us who don't want to play in Glorantha will have an easy time adapting it to our own preferred settings. Don't get me wrong, Glorantha is a marvellous setting, just not my preferred place to play. Wouldn't it be possible to have a core rules section and then a section/supplement that explains how to adapt these very flexible rules to the Gloranthan setting? I know some people will scream that "RQ is *nothing* without Glorantha!" I respectfully disagree. I think that RQ could very well be a successful general fantasy game, with Glorantha being its special, but not only world. Well, that's all I wanted to say.More than anything else, though, I'd like to see this dispute settled and work on RQ4 re-commenced with renewed enthusiasm. cheers! --Anthony Ragan ecz5rar@mvs.oac.ucla.edu -OR- IrishSpy@aol.com Rune Chia Pet of Ernalda, Snotling in Chief --------------------- From: argrath@aol.com Subject: Several threads Message-ID: <9404012027.tn340332@aol.com> Date: 2 Apr 94 01:27:28 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3492 David Dunham asks about the location of Wexten in Ralios. I asked Greg Stafford about this at the RQ Con, and he said it was too small to make the map. Put it where you want it. James Polk says: "As a player, I am quite ready to play these games with a GM who tells me "That's the way fit is because my daddy said so." My character's father is a god, who knows more than the GM's daddy, so my "dagger" can too kill my foes at 50 paces without having to touch them. :-) " I know you're just joking, but there's an important point here. In Gloranthan, Iron is a metal invented by Mostali. Period. There is no periodic table. If there are discoverable and testable rules comparable to physics and chemistry, nobody in Glorantha knows them (or if they do, they're not telling). I fail to see how someone who obviously accepts the power of magic (or else you wouldn't play the game) refuses to accept red blood that doesn't have iron in it. Joerg says: "Hashish, or anything else which makes "drunken", is forbidden to the orthodox muslim as well." Even at the level of generalization you're using ("orthodox muslim," whatever that is), this is less than accurate. The Prophet forbade alcohol. This prohibition was extended in various historic times to various other substances by various groups, but your blanket statement obscures more than it reveals. But hey, it's an interesting argument. Now let's switch sides. ;-) I said, hoping to stir up agitation and foment disorder: >>As for Urox, I believe his emergence as a separate cult is a >>second or third age development. The same with Humakt. Before >>that, they were just what we would call subcults of Orlanth. Sandy said: > My failure to concur with this is unfortunately >un-backed up by any evidence for the Bull. However, I submit >that the tales of Arkat and his betrayal provide strong evidence >for Humakt being a separate cult even at the dawn. Plus Humakt's >own mythology, which places great weight on being separate from >Orlanth. My evidence for this (frankly inspired by the Elmal/Yelmalio split) is as follows (and I'm not deeply attached to the idea, so flame if you must): A WF issue with the Sartar High Council, where Storm Bull was clearly an Orlanth subcult. Theory here: early Chaosium thinking reflects early Gloranthan history. Hey, what the hell. Reference to a first age "Barntar" cult in the same sense that Humakt/Urox are cults. The fact that Zorak Zoran was the major war cult of the First Theyalan Council. Unlikely if Humakt had been around, but it explains why a later-emerging Humakt cult is so anti-ZZ. So two theories from one bit of evidence--very parsimonious! As for Arkat, one of his titles is Humaktson, but does he really do anything Humakti-like? When the Humakt cult was casting around for its history ("we know we left it here someplace"), it naturally seized upon Arkat as a prestigious member. Humakt's mythology certainly does place an emphasis on separation from Orlanth. IMHO, this is a cultural artifact of the cult's own separation from the Orlanth cult. People always put their origins back further than they really are. I note in today's Daily that Nick agrees with me. Well, anyway, it makes an interesting theory for some Lhankor Mhy scholar to propound (and have his thesis rejected for being too God Learnerish). General note: Get a grip, people! This is a hobby, and a peculiar one at that. If you write for it, expect to have none of what you write be published. I have years of my work that hasn't been published, but I keep at it because I enjoy doing it. I suggest everyone do the same, and keep on sharing your ideas. Charles Gregory Fried said something about that poll of U.S. citizens regarding the existence of the Holocaust. It turns out that that poll question was worded in a very confusing double negative, something like, "Does it seem impossible that the Holocaust might not have happened?" When responsible pollsters did another poll, the percentage of Holocaust-doubters dropped rather dramatically, to less than 1% if I remember correctly. In any case, subjectivism is a good way of understanding current cultural phenomena, and not a great tool for historical revisionism. If anything, subjectivists are less likely to engage in historical revisionism than ideologues of any other stripe. Post-modernism is an architectural movement. Spy magazine had a good article a while back debunking the term, and last Sunday's Washington Post had an article with people trying to define the term and failing. One guy accused of being a post-modernist said he hoped he wasn't one. Sandy, I know you like trolls, and I agree that they shouldn't be Barney-ized. One of my favorite troll PC's was a Gorakiki- mosquito cultist who had a bronze mosquito mask with a long proboscis that he used to suck blood out of his victims. In my campaign, a troll hero killed several thousand humans at one time. Cullen Grace: The first part of your message of 31 Mar, 9:24 GMT, was cut off. Can you send it again? --Martin ---------------------