From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 09 Apr 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: stuff
Message-ID: <9404081633.AA13568@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 8 Apr 94 03:18:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3558
Alex F. comments:
>But note that if you're a 15 year old, trying to join a religion
>other than that of your parents', your chances aren't great.
I don't think many 15 year olds try to join religions other
than their parents'. This would be as abnormal as seeking a career
other than your parents'. Note that even in the 20th century, in
which the norm is that children do not follow in their footsteps,
career-wise, the VAST majority of children follow their parents'
religion, at least until they've moved out (and usually even then).
At a minimum, instead of following their folks' faith, they adhere to
no faith at all.
I say this knowing full well that my own church is largely
composed of converts -- but not many of them were converted at the
age of 15!
re: female broo
Lewis mentions that he believes all broo are born male, and the few
female broo are the result of: broos changing sex via dark elf magic
or females turning into broos via chaos features or various spells.
This argument is very convincing to me, but I would add a couple more
ways to become a female broo: 1) a regular male broo might get a
chaos feature making him hermaphroditic, 2) I think that a broo
spawned from an entirely female species (such as harpies or dryads,
frex) has a fighting chance of being female itself.
Lewis also seems to believe that a female broo gives birth in
the same violent manner as a non-broo. I think a female gives "birth"
in the broo manner only when serviced by a male broo.
>Female broo are quite a fun concept as they are very sought after by
>male broo as any offspring will be TRUE BROO!
What is a "true broo"? In any case, remember that broos can
inseminate even MALE victims, so a female broo is not needed for this
special use -- male/male broo sex would presumably also produce pure
broo offspring.
However, it is my opinion that broos rarely, if ever, engage
in sex among one another, whether hetero- or homo-. In fact, I doubt
very much whether broos appeal sexually to each other.
But I agree with Lewis' concept that female broos are highly
oversexed critters. Greg and I once had a discussion along these
lines (unsuitable for publication). The conclusion was that neither
of us could imagine a worse fate for a Gloranthan male than being
captured by female broos.
James asks (with reference to games):
>Where are the "large cities" of the Wastes?
First off, James -- my name is spelled PetersEn. For future
reference. The only large cities in the Wastes would be Pavis, the
Paps, and any contact the nomads had with Teshnos and the Iron Forts.
However, the nomads travel in LARGE groups -- bison riders in packs
of thousands, so the nomads have no trouble at all getting enough
players for a rousing large-scale game of Polo, Bison Rush, or Calf
Tossing. It's the hapless boondock peasants in Lunar Peloria that
can't get 18 folks together for a game of rounders.
In a long and fascinating discussion defending the Malkioni against
being somehow morally inferior to the theistic cults, Joerg sez:
>Don't get me wrong, I don't say that all theistic priests are
>bastards.
Ah, and let's not forget about theistic priests who worship
GODS who are bastards -- like Eurmal, Gagarth, Storm Bull, etc.
Clearly, the fact that someone is a theist gives him no moral
superiority over a Malkioni.
It feels a little funny to be arguing on the same side as
Joerg, but this has been an interesting discussion to me. Esp. since
I'm sure the great majority of theists believe just as Gary Robinson
and Guy Hoyle have written.
One more point in defense of the ol' Invisible God -- all his
wizards are SUPPOSED to be good, and this holds true for all his
sects except the Brithini (the Vadeli, of course, are not Malkioni).
Of course, there's plenty of bad wizards anyway. But a theistic
priest of a bad god, such as Zorak Zoran, gives you no such
assurance.
>I don't see Sartarite Hill barbarians as organized pike formations,
>else the Sun Dome Templars wouldn't be special units in Dragon Pass.
Some tribes might fight in ranks with spears, like the Greeks
before the advent of the Macedonians and the development of the true
sarissa-armed phalanx. The Sun Dome Templars might just be the only
guys with the discipline to have taken the already-familiar
spearfighting techniques to their logical extreme. This is sensible,
because it doesn't force the Sun Domers to have invented pikefighting
out of nowhere.
Joerg asks:
>Does aquiring Thanatar heads make you a broo?
According to the RQ II Thanatar writeup, yes, eventually.
>How frequently will any member of another race (female or male) be
>transformed into a broo by accepting one too many chaotic feature?
>Which chaotic entities spread chaos to unwilling recipients, except
>one denizen of Snake Pipe Hollow, and the dreadful Curse of Thed
>spell?
The Curse of Thed doesn't actually taint the recipient with
chaos, it just harms him for 15 minutes. However, Pocharngo's
Corruption spell does the trick, as does Primal Chaos's Chaos Feature
(10% chance per feature).
In addition, I rather expect that whenever a person has
delved deeply into chaos and been changed significantly as a result,
he is termed a "broo", regardless of whether he possesses the normal
capabilities or features of a broo. I imagine any Thanatar worshiper
who receives the "gift" of horns is considered a broo by most folks,
yet he probably lacks the broo immunity to disease, etc.
>Most promising candidates seem to be Dara Happa for chessish games
>and Vormain for goish games
I suggest Kralorela rather than Vormain for Go. After all,
our version evolved in our version of China, so why not theirs?
Paul Anderson asks:
>where did Modern chess, with its characteristic pieces, arise?
Then Joerg replies
>I think in the crusades, but I cannot say for sure.
I have a book on Chess history locked away somewhere. I
believe modern chess appeared sometime in the early Renaissance. I
know that a late medieval version of German Chess, called Courier
Chess (which I've played with friends and found quite good), still
has the puny one-space-diagonal queens, and the even worse
jump-two-spaces-diagonally bishops. One of the amazing new pieces in
Courier Chess is the Courier, which moves just like a modern bishop.
Not to mention the Man, which moves just like a king (but can be
captured like any other piece). I recommend the fine book CHESS
VARIATIONS: ANCIENT, REGIONAL, AND MODERN for anyone interested in
poaching weird chess variants for any RPG.
The problem with trying to invent one's own games for
Glorantha is that most of the board- and sports-games that ever
achieved any success on earth are actually pretty fun. It's doubtful
that one GM trying to make up new rules for, say, chess, will come up
with anything actually worth playing. Hence I advise theft from
Earthly sources (with obvious Gloranthan variations) rather than
making up one's own games. The players won't know the difference, and
you'll have keen games to mess with.
>The Queen is called something like vezire by Persians
The Queen is called the wazir or vizier by Persians and Moguls. He
represents the king's advisor. Note also that the "bishops" are
titled "ships" by Moslem players. In addition, in Arab chess sets,
all pieces are completely radially symmetrical, to obey the Koran's
proscription against representative sculpture. Thus, the knights and
bishops look quite different from the Western Staunton version.
Chess was evidently originally invented in India, and was
called chaturanga. The original chess game was remarkably similar to
the modern game. There were plenty of differences, of course -- but
the knights, rooks, and kings all moved the same and were in the same
starting positions. There was a four-handed version of chaturanga,
too, which was primarily a gambling game. You rolled dice to
determine which piece you could move. You got the most money if you
captured an enemy shah on his home square with your own shah.
Anyone interested in the rules to Courier Chess or chaturanga
e-mail me for a set.
Nigel Johnston sez:
>Also Gwalynkus is also supposed to have married one of the last of
>the gold wheel dancers. You would have to be pretty weird to marry a
>spinning hoop I think. So either Gwalynkus was deranged, or GW
>Dancers had more than one form, or the author of the history had a
>fetish for strange unions.
I don't think sex is so important to dwarfs ;) But seriously,
Gold Wheel Dancers, when not doing their magic, take on a more
humanoid form. Pinchining appeared to Urggh the Ugly as a radiant
golden woman then (as I recall) rolled away as a hoop.
re: Pamaltela
The dinosaur population of the Pamaltelan plains is densest
to the west, and thins out to the east. In essence, animal life
becomes more advanced the further east you go. Hence, Jolar life is
mostly stuff like brontops, chalicotheres, rodents, rhinos of various
sizes, mastodons, shovel-tuskers, etc. with a few dinosaurs thrown
in. The Kresh lands, even further east, are largely unknown to the
outside world, but when my PCs traveled through I don't recall them
encountering a single dinosaur. On the other hand, in Tarien, they
actually had to hunt stegosaurs for food or starve to death. As I
recall, the worst threat they encountered in Kothar was a pack of
communally-hunting spiders, each of which was about the size of a
turkey. The spiders killed a couple of Jelmres that were accompanying
the party, and nearly killed some of the PCs.
Nigel Johnston sez vis-a-vis the Kresh:
>I agree that humans pulling them is a bit harder to cope with.
>I decided in the end that the Wagon Master must also be a Kresh
>priest of some sort,
On the other hand, the ground is fairly flat, the wagons
extremely well-kept, and there are more humans per wagon than you
might expect (far more than could ever ride on one).
I'm not sure the Kresh have any priests. But I wouldn't be
surprised if spirits were bound into the wagon or its wheels.
Guy Robinson sez:
>With the Wizard caste possessing the magical power within a
>sorcerous society then in a society that is not too deeply
>entrenched in its ways I believe that they would tend to rise
>to the top.
I don't agree that this is necessarily the case, any more
than in modern societies, the "caste" possessing advanced weaponry
and firepower rises to the top. While there are certainly military
dictatorships around, there are plenty of other forms of government.
Though there are no doubt sorcerous governments in the West, this
doesn't mean that Tanisor, Nolos, Pasos, Loskalm, or any othe major
nation adhere to this particular form of tyranny.
>My complaints about the sorcerer-priests is that they do not
>appear to be offering the people they officiate over a far
>crack of the whip. At least the Rune Cults do offer magic
>to the common man at a reasonable cost.
First off, please call them wizards. "Sorcerer-priest" is
galling to the ear, and is an oxymoron, Gloranthically speaking. A
"wizard" wears white in his robes and performs some priestlike
duties. A "sorcerer" does nothing of the sort and is a loner, a
parasite on society. Probably uses Tap.
Second, the Invisible God cult arguably offers its followers
a better magic deal than the Rune cults. We'll use the caste-ridden
Rokari sect for our example. The ordinary Rokari farmer learns both
Intensity and a number of sorcery spells applicable to his lot. In
what way is he worse off than learning Spirit Magic? In addition, to
get a Rune Priest to cast one of his precious spells is a fairly big
deal. But a wizard can cast his spells again and again, with
comparatively little delay between castings. I submit the wizard is
more accessible to his flock on a daily basis than is a priest, who
must spend much of his time praying in the temple trying to get his
dang spells regained.
Obviously it can be argued whether the Rune spells are better
for a commoner than the wizard's enchantments, or whether Intensity +
sorcery is better or worse than spirit magic. My only point is that
they are comparable, if not exactly equal.
>Joerg mentions the size of the Invisible God's cult but this does
>not guarantee that this cult is authentic.
Huh? Surely you don't intend to say that there is no Invisible God
sect? It's pretty well documented. Plus has existed since the Dawn,
and despite the disasters of the Gbaji Wars and Second Age, it is
still the largest single faith.
>Prehaps the salvation of the Orlanthi will be the mobilization of
>the lands of the Invisible God once the insubstanciality and as well
>as the invisibility of the Invisible God is exposed.
Apparently you're unaware that the Malkioni are hostile to the Lunar
Empire, and see it as a rebirth of the evil Gbaji Empire (which
flourished in the same area and also supported chaos). I submit that
apostate Malkioni who no longer believed in their god would be LESS
hostile towards the Lunars and also less effective.
Sandy
---------------------
From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Games Kids Play...
Message-ID: <01HAXVA56I4Y91XZFF@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 9 Apr 94 03:31:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3551
G'day all,
Harold Smith reminisces:
>I remember playing soccer in schoolbreaks with 4 of my friends, regularly,
>using any object durable and soft enough to be kicked around...
I am a primary (elementary) teacher (as you may have gathered from
my description of my class's Roman Triumph a week ago), so I see kids
playing a lot. As Harold recalls and you all probably remember, kids
will make games up out of whatever's at hand, and to fit the space they
have. For example, if it's too wet to use the playing field, kids will
just adapt their game of "football" to fit onto one of the basketball
courts. I've seen kids play "cricket" with a stick because no one had
a bat and on one memorable occasion, cricket without a ball! In all
their games, the rules tend to be fluid, depending on situation, numbers
and personalities. To tie this in to Glorantha, games there would be the
same - one community's rules for "full contact golf" might differ very
much from the next village.
Roleplaying possibilities: If two communities got together to for a game,
there might be much wrangling beforehand as to which rules would be
followed ("when you play on a Greydog field, you use Greydog rules"). Or
maybe there wouldn't, which might lead to interesting disputes on the
field ("sorry, but kicks below the belt are legal in our game of 'Hide the
Sausage')...
Cheers
MOB
[One of the weirdest games the kids at my school have ever devised is
"Teacher Tiggy", where kids will come up to the teacher on playground
duty and say they want to play, then run and hide. If the teacher spots
them, they then *voluntarily* pick up 10 pieces of litter. You might
suspect it was thought up by the principal as a cunning plot to keep the
yard tidy, but no, he's scratching his head over this one too.]
---------------------
From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Jane Patterson
Message-ID: <01HAXW1JC1YQ91XZFF@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 9 Apr 94 03:50:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3552
Lewis's Broo Grass
>Broo Grass (aka Ratslaff's Curse, Disorder Daisy and Bitter-Pretty)
This reminds me a bit of a type of plant we have here in Australia.
In the more fertile areas, it's called Patterson's Curse, as it is a
weed and animals can get sick eating it (though just who "Patterson"
was eludes me just now). However, in the more marginal areas,
and in times of drought, it is called "Salvation Jane" as it
is often the only plant hardy enough to survive and stock can live on
it until the drought breaks. (Again, I don't know who "Jane" was).
MOB
---------------------
From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Gold Wheel Dancers
Message-ID: <940408094017_100270.337_BHL44-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 8 Apr 94 09:40:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3553
Nigel asked:
> Does anyone have any more info on the Gold Wheel Dancers?
Anyone interested can check out my article "Gold Wheel Dancers" (X-RQ-ID
2784) in the RuneQuest Daily for 12 January 94. Though it's speculation
rather than info. Seems a bit soon to arrange a reprint.
I'm pretty sure Pinchining was meant to be a disc, and that hoop reference
slipped in by accident. Unless Gloranthan gold coins are meant to be rings.
Then again, sex with the hoop would be easier...
------------
Guy Robinson's worrying about the tyranny of keeping powerful magic in the
hands of specialists who have been trained to use it to preserve a tranquil
state. I imagine he's also opposed to gun control laws...
Seriously, though, what's so wrong about letting professionals arrange my
unity with the cosmos, assure me of an afterlife, keep my fields fertile,
etc? This D.I.Y. Orlanthi approach always seems a bit of a waste of time.
In civilised parts of the world, we have more efficient and reliable ways
to employ our magic. And, as Guy concedes, the great benefit for the people
is tranquillity.
If civilisation, the rule of law, peace, happiness and prosperity are a
scam, then maybe wizardry is too. To consider it in isolation as a "bad
thing" seems a bit limited: taking magic outside its social context. Sure
enough, Orlanthi will complain that Western/Eastern/Lunar/Mostali/other
types of magic "stultify and restrict" their peasant beneficiaries -- in
Orlanthi lands, they'd be able to run around fighting and killing and
stealing from each other, with divine sanction.
Anyone wonder why we call them "barbarians"?
------------
David Dunham's discovered the *real* Persian Carmania: isn't it great!
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: pearse_w_r@bt-web.bt.co.uk (pearse_w_r)
Subject: RQ Companion
Message-ID: <9404081056.AA02882@Sun.COM>
Date: 8 Apr 94 12:56:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3554
I recall that in the RQ companion there was a Lankhor Mhy detective
story by Alan LaVergne entitled "The smell of a rat". Does anyone
know if there were ever any further stories by this gentleman, along
the same lines, or even whether this story was aprt of a series,
perhaps in Wrym's Footnotes?
Roger Pearse
---------------------
From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Glorantha ain't Earth
Message-ID: <01HAY3E97GSM91XWU5@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 9 Apr 94 07:24:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3555
G'day Everyone,
I agree with Lewis:
>I would like to express my support for those who have stated
>That Glorantha is not Earth and we should not be so quick to
>transplant things for Earth to Glorantha (frex. games although I
>will forgive the Issaries Trading Sticks game). While Earth
>analoges may be useful for out understanding of how Glorantha
>works, I would hate to see Glorantha cheapened by the wholesale
>transplantation of concepts that occurs in some other FRPGs.
...and Nick:
>I agree that we should avoid "stealing" things directly from this world for
>use in Glorantha.
I note that this is a point brought up in the review of
Dorastor in TALES #11 (I'll quote it here for the benefit of those of
you who haven't received their copies yet):
#The map work and graphics are by AH's new graphic designers, and are
#uniformly excellent, with some deft original touches: the depiction
#of the Tobros Mountains over the ages made me chuckle, and reminded
#me just how un-Earth-like Glorantha is supposed to be. Which is why
#I find one new section particularly intrusive and unwelcome: "Living
#in the World" on p.86 compares parts of Dorastor to various places on
#Earth.
#I have two problems with this: firstly, unless you've been there,
#stating that certain locations are based on terrestrial areas are
#not all that helpful: how many Aussie or European RQers know the
#Housatonic river valley in NW Connecticut well enough to visualize
#it? (Indeed, how many American RQers would?) Secondly, I would be
#reluctant to make such obvious and gross parallels in a publication,
#as it tends to cheapen the uniqueness and originality of Glorantha.
#If the Tobros Mountains are the Cascade Range, then why don't we just
#play our RQ in "Alternate Earth" and be done with it?
##[full review of DORASTOR: Land of Doom in Tales #11]##
I agree with the reviewer's sentiments entirely. I'll relate an
anecdote which brought me round to this way of thinking, with a thud:
When Greg Stafford came to Australia in October 1992, my wife and I took
him up to the Yarra Valley for some wine-tasting and then on to
Marysville, a picturesque town nestled in the mountains of the great
Dividing Range. We went on a hike through the bush up to a
spectacular viewpoint of the mountain range stretching off into
the distance. By then it was late afternoon, and in the golden
glow the mountain ash covered slopes looked even more beautiful.
Taking in the view, Greg said, "You know, this is exactly what I imagine
Sartar would look like". I thought to myself, hey wow, if Greg thinks
so, this *must* be what the hills of Sartar look like, and I am lucky
enough to have shared the same vision. However, I remember 4enthusiastically relating this tale to someone at RQ Con, but they
dismissed it by replying, "Yeah, but that's what Greg says wherever he
goes"!
What do other people think about making direct comparisons between
terrestrial and lozengial locations?
Cheers
MOB
---------------------
From: BURDICKD@ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: RE: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 08 Apr 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9404081134.AA05577@Sun.COM>
Date: 8 Apr 94 11:34:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3556
Please unsubscribe me from the Runequest mailing list. Sorry guys, but
my mailer wouldn't mail to /@glorantha/ any other way. It seems you
don't exist! :)
Dakin
burdickd@prism.ucs.indiana.edu