From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 14 Apr 1994, part 3
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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From: WALLMAN@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (Close friend of Little Elvis)
Subject: Western Civilization 101
Message-ID: <01HB54HTWRO2003PBP@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU>
Date: 13 Apr 94 17:09:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3631
Because TOTRM says it will have a Malkioni issue sometime soon, I have some
comments on just that. In general, I find the western civilizations to be
much more difficult to use for a game setting than good old barbarian
settings. What follows are some of my complaints, meant not just to
complain but to hopefully get responses that will help me and others who
find western civilization perplexing. I also hope the TOTRM issue will
enlighten me further.
Western civilization is too complicated. Background sources mention Duke
so and so and Count so and so, but exactly what is the organization of the
nobles and their powers are rarely mentioned. I researched some heraldry
for a campaign once, but the whole campaign could have been spent figuring
out why Baron so and so had a boar's head and Bishop so and so had an oak
tree in their heraldry.
Western civilization is stagnant. We had two Malkioni soldiers playing
once and no one could tell them apart. True, better role-playing solves
this, but really, where is there to go in a caste system? Orlanthi can
rise to rune lords, rise to priests, and explore subcults. In earth's
middle ages Europe wealthy merchants would purchase nobility and
priesthoods. Does this happen in Glorantha's west?
Western civilization is too codified. This is sort of like my stagnant
complaint. In earth's middle ages Europe, the great conflicts came from
nobody really agreeing what each other's powers were. Popes claimed to
make kings. Kings claimed to make popes. The Malkioni had much of their
social laws pretty much layed down for them from square one. For example,
does a growing wealthy middle class threaten the nobility in Glorantha?
Western civilization is too monotheistic. Yeah, I know that is the idea.
The problem I see here is that in most of Glorantha conflicts between good
and evil mostly are conflicts between X worshippers and Y worshippers. If
everyone in the land worships the same thing, then good and evil reduces
down to believers and unbelievers. I do not see unbelief being too common
in Glorantha. Do primitive cults pervade western civilizations?
Please enlighten me. My complaints are mainly about pure Malkioni
societies which seem to have great background information when supplied, but
always seem to be full of holes when attempted to be used. IMHO.
Ed Enough about the great Elmal/Yelmalio debate.
Wallman@vax2.winona.msus.edu What about the great Peterson/Petersen debate?
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From: timbee@timbee.rnd.symix.com (Dogs Playing Poker)
Subject: Chariots of the Clods
Message-ID: <9404140340.AA08141@timbee.rnd.symix.com.symix>
Date: 14 Apr 94 03:40:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3632
Subject:Mostakos does Ralios
David Dunham sez:
>There will of course be Orlanthi chariots somewhere in Ralios because I as
>GM will decree so, but I was hoping to find a reason why Orlanth's
>Charioteer is still quite well known. And even has a cult (a small one, but
>worth describing in Gods of Glorantha) that does teach Drive Chariot.
I played a Mostakos Initiate in a campaign (along with Styx, Wachaza and some
other non-normal cults). In this campaign the reason Mostakos was popular
was a matter of status. Several times I was made to carry into battle in my
war chariot pulled by Praxian Bison the local chieftan in spite of my bad
driving skill. Even though my driving efforts resembled a roller coaster
the Orlanthi riding in my chariot still looked better than the Orlanthi
without a chariot. If Orlanth is driven about in a chariot then the big shot
Orlanthi wants to be driven about in a chariot. If your Orlanth character learns
Trident because of combat advantages then when your tribe goes to war you get
to be the lone trident in the sea of spears and whatever else. While the local
Orlanthi are concerned with Orlanthi affairs I was working on bigger and faster
chariots (sort of like a teen drag racer) and getting out and seeing Glorantha
(couldn't be bothered to settle down). A lot of fun to play. Also because a
Mostakos is always on the move they also serve as a source of information from
places they have been.
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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Dragonewts; Mastakos
Message-ID: <199404140611.AA04347@radiomail.net>
Date: 14 Apr 94 06:12:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3633
In the boardgame Dragon Pass, if the Inhuman King is killed, dragonewts
aren't reborn when killed. Since there's no Inhuman King in Ormsland (in
Ralios), does this mean that Ormsland dragonewts don't resurrect? Do they
still have the chance to be reborn as a "higher" dragonewt form? (Or for
that matter, as a dinosaur?)
Alex "uses accent grave instead of left apostrophe*" Ferguson said
>I don't think Mastakos is `obscure', he just happens to be a de facto
>Orlanth subcult. I personally think he has more magic than described
>in GoG, when worshipped in specialised sub(sub?)cults in his roles as
>Charioteer and Runner, usually in the service of some Big Noise Orlanthi.
>His billing as one of the Major Gods of Glorantha takes some swallowing,
>though.
He owns the Motion rune, that's why he's "Major." I'd be interested to see
your subcult ideas, since Mastakos is going to be more prominent in my
chariot-riding Ralios. (According to KoS, he's no longer a Runner...)
Remember that if Mastakos only has shrines, there can't be more spells.
(The fact that he only has shrines does suggest that there are few
chariot-using people in Glorantha.)
* (Since in most fonts an apostrophe is straight, accent grave looks really
silly as a left apostrophe.)
BTW, I've finally found a reference to an Orlanthi charioteer! KoS.169
mentions Orlmarl the Charioteer as Argrath's Movement Companion.
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From: garydj@ditard.dit.gov.au
Subject: Cult Intiation and other stuff
Message-ID: <9403147663.AA766367727@ditard.dit.gov.au>
Date: 14 Apr 94 14:55:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3634
Hi!
As a recent Initiate to the RuneQuest Daily, I've noticed
quite a few comments on the difficulty of initiating fifteen
year olds into cults given the tough (for starting
characters) skill tests required.
[I'm sorry about the vague reference, but I haven't worked
out how to do the natty copy and paste from other messages.]
I consider the skill tests are requirements for a
stranger to join the cult. I think the tests would be
treated differently for an adolescent who is presumably well
known to the cult hierarchy (generally the
clan/village/tribal elders).
I ran a campaign for fifteen year olds some years ago. One
of the tests to join Orlanth involved lining up all the
aspiring initiates on the bank of a stream. The stream was
wide, but not deep. The soon to be adults had to jump from
one bank to the other. If they failed, they could try again
or simply wade across. As the candidates were all well
known to the clan, it was not essential they successfully
jump across the stream on their first attempt. What was
more important was the chance to demonstrate their mettle in
front of the whole clan. Thus, the candidates could
repeatedly attempt the jump to show off their courage and
determination. One player decided to dive into the stream
and then try to swim (read: flounder) across. Another got
a tree branch and tried to vault across. For the clan, it
was a chance to take pride in their sons and daughters
as well as the opportunity to enjoy a laugh at their
expense.
In contrast, the Healer would initiate anyone into Chalana
Arroy who would take the cult's vows of pacifism and non
violence. The test to enter Storm Bull/Urox required the
candidate to stand before the Storm Kahn who would swing his
greatsword at the candidate's head. If the candidate
didn't flinch, they were in. The Humakti required a
demonstration of the youngster's ability with the sword. If
a candidate showed aptitude but lacked skill, they would be
taken on as lay members and given the opportunity to develop
their sword fighting prowess.
The point I am trying to make is I don't think it would be
difficult to join a cult within one's own community provided
the candidate is acceptable to the cult. I see rigorous
application of tests being used where the candidate is
unfamiliar to the cult. In this context, I think sponsors
would have an important role to play and may have
responsibility for a new cult member until they become well
known in the community.
On broos...
I find the argument there are no female broos difficult to
swallow. Considering the nature of chaos, I think any
gender would be possible for a broo. I read somewhere, it
may have been in Cults of Terror, that broos are the
offspring of Thed and Ragnaglar and like them, they were not
originally associated with chaos. If so, it would seem
plausible they would retain those features common to all
humanoid races as a basic pattern. The overlay provided by
chaos is likely to change many common features, but unlikely
to completely eliminate whole characteristics such as a
gender. After all, chaos revels in variety.
It's an interesting proposition whether broos can mate with
each other. I agree with the points made by Paul Reilly and
others about the implications of a race who WORSHIP the
Goddess of Rape. It would seem likely they practice rape as
part of their normal "social interaction".
Given they can produce viable "offspring" by parasitizing
stoves and trees [I think impregnating is the wrong word
when talking about broos], I think they would have no
problems parasitizing each other.
Does this mean most of the broos in any plague are carrying
larvae? Can a broo parasitize itself?
Gary James
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Gloranthan names
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Apr 94 07:03:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3635
David Dunham in X-RQ-ID: 3619
> Michael O'Brien (who should talk, naming people after Earthly geography) said
>> However, we don't (or shouldn't) just assume Lunar = Roman, Kralorelan
>> = Chinese etc., nor are such bald assumptions ever spelled out in RQ
>> publications.
>> I just don't think specific terrestrial
>> locations should be mentioned in RQ publications.
> True. But I plan to use pictures of Celtic "cone-houses" and hill forts to
> show the players in my not-yet-started Ralios campaign where they live. If
> I didn't know the Orlanthi had Celtic attributes, I couldn't do this. The
> geographic equivalencies are also handy. It's possible to get photos, and
> it can give you an idea of what kind of vegetation and wildlife you'd find.
> Even if this is wrong, it's better to have a definite idea than to say "I
> don't know."
I could contend that the Orlanthi are a lot like the northwestern Slavs,
only the number of heads they put on a god is lower. This doesn't change
either housing, nor riding, nor chariot habits...
Especially with regard to daily life and everyday habits I don't see a
chance to get rid of Real Earth parallels. Fantasy writers and players
might show ingenuity with regard to weapons, fighting styles, clothing,
gouvernment, names; but I fail to see any fantastic description of
everyday affairs on a different tech-level which did not lean heavily
on real earth examples. (Apart from total spoof, which diesn't help in
a game trying to get about atmosphere or suspense.)
> What's the difference between the Stygian Heresy and the Henotheistic
> Church in Ralios? They're the same thing, depending on who's doing the
> naming, right?
Wrong. At least, if you take a closer look.
Outsiders' names, including God Learner taxonomics, for cultures rarely
justify the nature of the culture they describe. Stygian Heresy is a
derisive term, much like Krjalki in western use of the word (including
anything humanoid but not (western) human, but not stopping there).
Seriously, if there was a church of St. Ehilm in Galin (pushing a pet
idea here), to call it Stygian, which is Greek for Dark, is a joke. Not a
good one.
Also, the so-called Stygian Heresy is about as internally united as
is the Malkioni Church as a whole. The Otkorion Henotheist Church seems
to be the single largest "Stygian" organisation, extending its influence
over large parts of Ralios, the same way the Loskalmi Hrestoli church
influences most of Fronela.
In Fronela, however, there is mention of the Jonating Church, subservient
to Southpoint, but essentially a "Stygian" sect of Malkionism. The 2nd Age
Carmanians were another Stygian sect (here the name applies to about 50% :-)
which must have been in the see of Southpoint before the Return to
Rightness crusaders arrived here, spreading the Empire of the Middle Seas.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
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