From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 07 May 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
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From: C.PRINGLE@elsevier.co.uk
Subject: RQ Wargames
Message-ID: <_NW-SMF:ED49CA2D0146D620*_@MHS>
Date: 6 May 94 15:45:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3931
Can anyone recommend published rules for fighting Gloranthan
battles and military campaigns? (I.e. where the emphasis is on
generalship/strategy/tactics rather than on roleplaying of the
more usual freelance adventurer type.) I myself have found the
Shieldbearer rules to be very satisfactory, but I just thought I
would stimulate some discussion.
I speak as a wargamer who is also a Runequester. I have always
found ancient-style warfare to be a big disappointment: the troop
types are ever so colourful, but most tabletop encounters are
frighteningly tedious - like chess only less unpredictable. The
intrinsic problem in my view is that all the interesting and
clever stuff depends on what happens before the armies ever reach
the battlefield; and once they are lined up, the commander's
(player's) options are very limited (a: line up and wait for
them; b: line up and charge at them).
The best way to enjoy ancients battles seems to me to be in a
campaign, where strategems and ruses can be employed to the full.
I have therefore been running such a campaign set in Ralios,
by post, with about 15 players around the UK. Each player is a
ruler (Inhuman King of Ormsland; Azruban Ironarm of Delela; etc);
each game move is a year; after a short time for diplomacy, each
player sends me orders for the year (raising/disbanding armies;
invasions; oppression of the peasantry; bizarre megalomaniac
actions, etc etc). Yours truly then sacrifices a weekend plus a
couple of weeknights to sort it all out, a few phone calls for
reaction to other players' moves if necessary, a pile of
photocopying and it's time for the next move.
Military-wise we have now had several wars and have seen armies
of up to 20,000 chugging around. However, the Invisible God (or
umpire) has fixed the rules so that invasions are suitably
expensive to launch, and conquest is often profitless if the new
subjects won't pay taxes or keep rebelling . . . The players have
proved endlessly inventive, eg tactics used to counter
warg-riding cavalry include use of pepper, aniseed, and bitches
on heat . . . (The campaign has also generated a surprising
amount of very fine poetry which I publish in the campaign
newspaper, the Goodword Herald.)
The Shieldbearer rules have served very well, as they are fairly
simple and quick (big advantage) and rely on one main variable,
the "Determination" of the troops fighting. This is what
determines whether they will fight in the first place, affects
how much damage they will inflict on opponents, and decides when
they will give up; and it is very easy to integrate campaign-type
factors (fatigue; hunger; fanaticism; attrition; effects of magic
or exotic attacks . . .).
What are other people's experiences with Runequest-based
wargames? How do you cope with Heroes, Rune magic, regiments of
wizards? Helpful hints welcome!
Chris Pringle
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From: SYS_RSH%PV0A@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com (Scott Haney, AFDS770 Functional Test X2069)
Subject: Gestation and year length
Message-ID: <01HC0G3PX8S09GZH2C@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com>
Date: 6 May 94 06:14:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3932
> I don't think that gestation necessarily changed. It makes it
>simpler to calculate matters for PCs if biological functions are the
>same, despite the year length.
'sides, even though a G. year has fewer days, the days themselves may
be longer than Earth days...which could easily make the number of
days in gestation come out the same for both. :)
--scott
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From: QFF00036@niftyserve.or.jp (QFF00036@niftyse)
Subject: Reusable Restore Health.
Message-ID: <199405061330.WAA09912@inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp>
Date: 6 May 94 13:06:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3933
Kuri here. I got my copy of SiP. Now I (and some Japanese RQers)
have a question about Rune spells Restore Health.
Princess Anderida has Restore Health spells through Spell Trading.
RQ Magic book says "Restore Health (to characteristics): One-use".
^^^^^^^
GoG says "This spell (Spell Trading) allows the priest to trade one
use of any of his reusable Rune spells..."
^^^^^^^^
RoC says Restore Health spells from C.A. are reusable to W.L. and W.V.
Contradiction.
How do you Avallon Hill RQ poeple think of this? Are you confused?
Are there any Errata on the spells?
Regards.
// Kuri (QFF00036@niftyserve.or.jp) //
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From: goroh@fee.unicamp.br (Andre de Oliveira Fernandes)
Subject: MOREDORASTORMORE
Message-ID: <199405061408.LAA22369@diamante.fee.unicamp.br>
Date: 6 May 94 08:08:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3934
I was planning to begin my Dorastor campaign soon (great supplement!),
but I do lack some knowledge you guys surely don't:
1. If the PCs are a mix of races (humans, elves, trolls), how could
they get along? I mean:
. Elves sleep during winter. So are these PCs inactive for a
whole season?
. Trolls are night-active. Can they easily switch to a day-
active life, or would they keep making noises at night (&
nobody else could sleep anymore?)
. What would dwarves eat?
. Could such a party exist (for some time at least)?
2. The Elf hibernation problem: WHO takes care of the poisonthorn
woods during winter? Does all kinds of elves MUST hibernate?
3. About Telmori. Do the Pure ones live among the Cursed Ones at
the (Nangtoli... can't recall its name) Plateau? Are they enemies? Or are the
Pure Ones secretly among the Cursed? If a Cursed One heroquests to get rid of
his curse, would there be a proper God for it?
I WANT KNOWLEDGE! GIVE IT TO MEEEEeeeee....
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From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Stuff
Message-ID: <9405061716.AA04301@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 6 May 94 05:16:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3935
Jesper asks
>How common is the knowledge ABOUT the GL Secret? Not the secret
>itself but the knowledge that the secret ever existed, and brought
>down the God Learners. I've always thought that the Doom Guardians
>were quite efficient in not only eradicating the secret itself but
>also the knowledge about the secret.
As I see it, there are three levels of knowledge of the GL
secret. Or of course of any secret
First, there is Primary Knowledge, at which the individual
actually KNOWS the secret and can use it. This level, for the GLs, is
now completely extinct. If anyone were to discover this, the Gift
Carriers of the Sending Gods would come again. They're still active,
you know. Just like the Closing is still active. It's just that the
Gift Carriers haven't had anyone to pick on for a while.
Second, there is Secondary Knowledge at which the individual
knows WHAT THE SECRET WAS, but not how to do it. For instance, if the
GL secret had been "How to extract purple dye from a sea snail",
anyone who knew the preceding parenthesized phrase would know the
secret at the Second Level. Anyone who could actually extract the dye
would have it at Primary. Obviously, there's a lot of variation here
in the Secondary level -- you might know only that the secret had
something to do with colored dye, or you might know the exact species
of sea snail.
Third, there is Tertiary Knowledge, at which you know only
that there _is_ a secret.
When the Gift Carriers of the Sending Gods came, they
expunged all of the Primary and Secondary knowers of the GL secret.
Secondary carriers who were able to permanently forget their
knowledge before the Gift Carriers came were able to survive.
Today, no human has Primary or Secondary information on the
GL secret. While Primary knowledge is impossible to obtain, I think
that a band of dedicated PCs who worked hard could probably get
Secondary knowledge. I don't think such knowledge would activate the
Gift Carriers. But if the Gift Carriers were ever activated by the
presence of a Primary source, they would then, after eliminating the
Primary, move on to the Secondary sources. I also think that there
are enough clues and entities knowing fragments of the secret to find
out that the GL secret was (Secondary).
I think that most Gloranthans who know the history of the God
Learners have so-called Tertiary knowledge -- that the GL had a
secret and were killed for it. In the same manner, most Doraddi know
that Bolongo's Mask protects a great secret (Tertiary). A few very
wise Doraddi know the secret (Secondary): that there is nothing
behind the Mask, not even a god. And only a few of the most advanced
cases of Bolongo tricksters know how to use that secret (Primary).
Alex Ferguson asks some questions about Pamaltela. Even though not
directly to me, I'll naturally try to respond.
>Grigdom: brown/green.
>Other islands in archipeligo: brown? (Forest, no elves.)
Jrustela is generally dominated by deciduous trees, though
there are evergreens present, especially on the slopes of the dwarf
mountain.
>Vralos: Exclusively brown, or brown/green?
Enkloso and Vralos are the site of Aldrya's Woe, a race war
between Brown and Green elf peoples in the First Age. In general, the
Green elves lost, and are now much less common than Brown. However,
the Green elves are still fairly prevalent in Enkloso, and dominate
some parts. There is no residual hostility between the elf types and
all now regret the war.
Note that a "war" in which elves are involved is not fought
anything like a human war. No regiments of elves go marching out with
arrows to impale one another. Instead, the war is like a long series
of one-on-one murders, poisonings, sowing of lethal plants, etc. Elf
wars can last decades, even when being waged against other species
(such as the human/elf war taking place in Onlaks today).
>Enkloso: why are there two large areas in the north-east marked as
>being free of both elves and trees? Are these areas human-occupied,
>or deforested by some natural phenomenon?
Those are technically in Vralos, not Enkloso. I believe these
are the remnants of the so-called "Season Wars" which, as I recall,
are now mostly ended in Vralos, but still being fought in the area
south of Tortrica. The Season Wars are wars which are partially
ecological and partially military. On one side of the war are
civilized humans, either Fonritians or coastal Malkioni. On the other
side are the elves and their human allies (Orlanthi from the river
bottoms). Despite the cleared areas, the elves are generally agreed
as having "won" the Season Wars in the two regions to the west -- the
humans there pay tribute and don't stray outside their boundaries.
>Where is the "border" between the jungles in the east, and the
>forest of the west? Perhaps there really isn't one, since the types
>of trees may be rather similar, there simply being a gradation in
>the climatic conditions.
The "forest" in Dolorofey and Mondoro is rather sparse at
times, and a lot of the land here is rather dry hilly uplands. Where
the Laskal Jungle starts, it's pretty dense rain forest.
>Glorantha is absolutely, positively and with no doubt a Creationist
>world with _no_ evolutionary history as we 20th century "humans"
>know it. There is no point in classifying families in this manner.
Except that, as I've said before, the classification system
which we use today was developed and perfected by people who "lived"
in what they firmly believed to be a Creationist world. The
relationships and similarities between groups were still considered
useful, and of predictive ability. I.e., useful for play.
If we were to agree (for instance) that trolls are relatives
of shrews, this may have useful implications for play. Likewise, if
we instead agreed that trolls are man-shaped insects this, too, leads
to interesting conclusions.
And besides, who says Glorantha has no evolutionary history?
I think that there is plenty of evidence for organic evolution
throughout Glorantha. Look at the gradual development of trolls into
beasties fit for the surface world or the previously-mentioned
Aldrya's Woe of Pamaltela, which is really just a thinly-disguised
ecological succession. The existence of evolution in Glorantha does
NOT eliminate a role for magic, mythology, or Creation.
---------------------
From: 100102.3001@CompuServe.COM (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: Well said Jim
Message-ID: <940506203325_100102.3001_BHJ45-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 6 May 94 20:33:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3936
Jim de Gon in X-RQ-ID 3928:
>Glorantha is absolutely, positively and with no doubt a Creationist
>world with _no_ evolutionary history as we 20th century "humans" know
>it. There is no point in classifying families in this manner.
I quite agree.
Loren in X-RQ-ID 3917:
Loren here...
>Someone mentioned the Godplane and wondered what it was all about.
>Here's my theory. The Godplane is a big wheel.
[Much follows]
I must confess I rather like that. I would think there is all sorts of
potential for using this rationale as the basis of a campaign's 'secret'. I'm
no Godlearner expert - I wonder what they would have made of this?
Regards,
Peter
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From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: GL Secret
Message-ID: <9405062125.AA26756@aft-ms.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 6 May 94 22:25:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3937
Hi Sandy, in the upcoming daily you write:
> Today, no human has Primary or Secondary information on the
^^^^^^
>GL secret.
So, who do?
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
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From: argrath@aol.com
Subject: Jihad! Death to the infidels!
Message-ID: <9405062038.tn239375@aol.com>
Date: 7 May 94 00:38:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3938
Re: Islam, Christianity, and Malkionism
Various people have quibbled with my comparison of the above
three belief systems, and some have even (obliquely) attacked the
whole idea of comparing Malkionism and Islam. Let me correct a
couple of the less informed opinions with some simple statements
which anyone can verify with standard reference works such as,
frex, the Abingdon Dictionary of Living Religions.
1. The development of the doctrine of the Trinity divided the
early church from at least the time of Justin Martyr (d. 165),
who taught that Jesus was both God's own self-expression and a
being distinct from him, using a combination of New Testament and
Greek thought. This "Logos" theology contrasted with folks who
said that the three beings of the trinity were successive stages
in God's interaction with the world and those who said that Jesus
was God's adopted son.
2. The doctrine of the Trinity continues to divide Christians
today. The Orthodox Churches reject the insertion of the word
"filioque" into the Nicene Creed ("the holy ghost ... proceedeth
from the Father _and_the_Son").
3. Between Justin Martyr and the present day, various
entertaining takes on the Trinity have held sway over various
sized groups of people. (This can be verified by playing Credo!,
which is a lot more fun than standard reference works.)
4. The fundamentals of Islam, as the adherents of that religion
came to view themselves as distinct from other monotheists, are
the revelation of the Koran to Muhammad, and the moral laws that
book provides (such as observing the Ramadan fast (Sura 2:139-
145), making the Hajj pilgrimage (Sura 3:90-92), and giving alms
(Sura 9:60, 57:18)).
What does all this dry scholarly stuff have to do with Glorantha?
Well, for one thing, these very ideas have filled millions of
people with pious emotions ranging from joy to hatred. Good RPG
possibilities there.
For another, note the lack of a Trinity in Malkionism and
its central importance in Christianity. Sure, the early
Christians also argued about church governance, monastic
practices, church-state relations, and the composition of the
canon, but the different sects we know from history are known for
their Trinitarian beliefs. Arianism, Monophysitism, etc., are
all labels that refer to beliefs about the three persons of God.
The gnostic denial of the Christ's physical body, the second
century emphasis on the holy spirit as redeemer--where is this in
Malkionism?
Malkionism is about a revelation from the Invisible God to a
prophet, who taught moral laws which are unfortunately subject to
differing interpretations. Sound familiar? And the central
confession of faith in Malkionism sounds a lot like the
"testimony" of Islam or (a little) the Shema Yisrael of Judaism,
not like the trinitarian confession of faith in most sects of
Christianity.
Sure, there are many question marks left to fill in.
Obviously, no Terran missionary religion tried to pigeonhole
people into a four-caste system. But when you're looking for an
analogue to build your vision on, you can look beyond familiar
Western Christianity.
Dogmatically,
Martin
King, by Grace of Orlanth, etc., of Holay, Saird, Tarsh, etc.
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From: devinc@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 06 May 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9405062042.tn239503@aol.com>
Date: 7 May 94 00:42:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3939
The weak, shortlived human-thing called Loren writes a heresy:
"Got it? Now the important thing to remember from this is not that it is
a crazy machine, the most important thing to remember is that it
functions like a rubber stamp that keeps on imposing its pattern on
Glorantha."
Harumph!!
My supervisor, who once served for 1,456 shifts for the great Diamond Dwarf
of Thenestrom, tells me that the fact that you humans use Grower metaphors to
describe the world (i.e. rubber, which is the ichor of plants) shows how you
have become corrupted from eating the raw, unprocessed things that Grow from
the earth.
All true immortal servants of Mostal know that the Godplane IS a machine... a
beautiful, wonderful, synchronized and perfectly harmonic mechanism which
powers and moves that portion of the World Machine that you humans call
Divine.
You can only call this machine "crazy" because of the damage done to it by
Grower when he let Chaos come into the world.
Glimbom
Second Worker, Third Shift
Lattice Works
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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Minaryth; new GMs
Message-ID: <199405070649.AA22029@radiomail.net>
Date: 7 May 94 06:49:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3940
Joerg said of Minaryth:
>My easiest solutions: 1. the write-up in RoC is wrong, or preferedly
>2. the man was initiated into the pantheon, and slowly developed his
>membership
or 3. Minaryth Blue and Minaryth Purple aren't the same person. After all,
the person who wrote that is hardly the one who got partly eaten by the
dragon. I think this is what Greg says.
Neil Robinson said:
>New GMs will find Glorantha overwhelming, to say the least.
True, and I haven't seen anything that attempts to address this. (I wonder
if that's a direction I should take one of my projects...)
But congratulations for starting a Gloranthan campaign! It took me a long
time to feel up to running a campaign in someone else's world, but it can
be rewarding:
>The players were awed by the amount of detail and the flavour.
---------------------