Bell Digest v940516p1

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To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 16 May 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest
format.

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
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---------------------

From: rowe@soda.berkeley.edu (Eric Rowe)
Subject: Pavis Character List
Message-ID: <199405140859.BAA02507@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: 13 May 94 18:59:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4010


Howdy,

On Date: 5 Feb 93 CLay Luthor asked...

>Can anyone submit a glossary of important people in Pavis not
>mentioned in RoC?  For instance, I'd like to know the names and
>thumbnail descriptions of the important members of several temples
>(Lightbringers, esp.).

Sorry this took so long to answer, but it's hard keeping up with the
rapid release of new products.

The following list has every named character from Pavis and the
Rubble.  For my use it is set in about 1621, so people like Arlaten
the Magus have not arrived yet and are not listed, nor are people who
show up and die in the same scenario. The ordering and grouping is
arbitrary, but roughly corresponds to more important people in the
first section. At least more important as a Marriage of Pavis and the
Red Goddess LARP would look at them. Also, the descriptions have short
notes for my reference that can be ignored. After each name is the
faction or political group the person associated with to the best of
my knowledge. Anyhow, since I finally finished it I thought some
people might find it useful.

Pavis Character List:

Banaryos - Lunar - Commander of the Silver Shields(750).
Benderri - Pavis - Son of Pavis, RL, PC, City Council.
Bendrath - Pavis - Pavis RL, PC, lives in real city.
Berene Pavalava - Lunar - Teelo Norri RL, helps poor.
Bilkar - Pavis - PC, Pavis RL, lives in real city.
Bor-eel - Lunar - Sor-eel's half-brother. RL sword.
Broosta - Pavis - PC, Pavis RL, associate of LMhy, married to Fleeter Nemm.
Brygga Scissortongue - Free - PC, Heads C&L Guild, Garhound, Mayor.
Che'enshashan - Ind. - Newtling High Priest of Zola Fel. (che'en)
Chukan Chanteyman - Pavis - Pelorian lutist.  See Chukel the Clever.
Chukel the Clever - Pavis - Master thief.  See Chukan Chanteyman.
Count Eiskolli - Yelmalio - PC, heir to Sun Dome temple holdings.
Count Julan - Lunar - Leader of the Coders. RL YT.
Cyrilius Harmonious - Pavis - PC, Pavis RL, Lunar ally.
Derenx the Handsome - Ind. - Humakti weaponsmaster, RL, Guild head.
Duke Raus of Rone - Lunar - Exiled nobleman, property in grantlands.
Eslas the Tracker - Lunar - Coder. Pentian nomad, 7 moms init.
Faltikus the Good - Lunar - Orlanthi RL, illuminated Lunar puppet.
Fleeter Nemm - Pavis - PC, Pavis RL, sponsor of rubble activities.
Frekor Firmfarer - Ind. - RL Orlanthi, The Rat from badside, lanbril pals.
Garrath Sharpsword - Free - RL Orlanthi.  Weaponmaster.
Gastar the Holy - Yelmalio - Head of Yelmalio mercenary company.
Gimgim the Grim - Lunar - Head of intelligence, spoken word.
Ginkizzie - Pavis - Pavis/Flintnail RL, PC, leader of Dwarfs.
Gomoranx the Wise - Pavis - Ruler of Real City, brother to Bendrath.
Govoran the Magnificent - Free - Orlanthi RL, merc. leader, PC, Garhound.(x)
Hallarax the Singer - Lunar - Heads Riverman's Guild, PC, Heads Imperials.
Haloric Glowbrow - Yelmalio - Yelmalio RL, commander of mercs, men, militia.
Hargran the Dirty - Ind. - Head of Pavis Royal Guard, lives in Zebra Fort (x)
Harnasti - Lunar - Deezola RL, native of Pavis, PC.
Hetaera Thessen - Lunar - Irripni Ontor RL.
Hucipites - Lunar - Commander of the Marble Phalanx(750).
Jorjar the Quick - Lunar - From Adari, head of the constabulary (50).
Jotoran Longsword - Lunar - Chief Administrator, powerful.
Kalf Haldelson - Pavis - PC, Heads Bronze Guild, City Council.
Karial the Pure - Yelmalio - HP of Yelmalio, dull.
Kolli the Portly - Pavis - PC, Heads Jeweler's Guild and City Peacers.
Krogar Wolfhelm - Free - Orlanthi RLP, teaches at Humakt temple.
Magan - Ind. - Head of Magan's Grey's mercenary unit (x).
Maculus the Monitor - Lunar - Coder.  Illuminate, sorcerer.
Malavar Patroma - Lunar - Head of Patroma Lunar family.
Nose Ring - Lunar - Coder. Danfive Xaron.
Pharnastes Rugbagian - Lunar - Etyries RL, from Tarsh trading family.
Porusa the Patient - Lunar - High Priestess 7 moms. RL Deezola.
Princess Anderida of Raibanth - Lunar - Lunar Coder. 7 moms, Deezola.
Radak the Iron Centurian - Lunar - Commander of elite personal guard (50)
Sir Holburn - Ind. - Head of Mercanary Axe Unit. (x)
Sitzmag Redmoon - Lunar - Commander of the Antelope Lancers(750).
Sor-eel the Short - Lunar - Commander of army, Governor of Prax and Pavis.(x)
Tala Errio - Lunar - Priestess of the Red Moon, to wed pavis.
Thrandren Clubfoot - Yelmalio - Lokarnos RL, supplies suntown.
Valerina the Peddler - Lunar - Etryies RL and High Priest of the Market.

Families -

Eiskolli - Yelmalio - Leading family of Suntown.
Garhound - Free - Sartar colonists.  Leading Frees.
Indagos - Pavis - Prominent Landholding family.
Ingilli - Lunar - Leading family of Riverside, Imperials.
Patroma - Lunar - Leading Lunar family.
Rugbagian - Lunar - Owns Erigio's.

Military Units -

Antelope Lancers - Lunar - Heavy Cal. 25 years. Lunar army. (750)
Ingilli Guardmen - Lunar - Preferred guards of river craft. (x)
Govoran's Men - Free - Orlanthi only.  Mixed foot and horse. (x)
Jordan's Scouts - Ind. - Light Inf. 5 years. (x)
Longspear Slayers - Ind. - Heavy Inf. 5 years. (x)
Magan's Grey's - Ind. - Mixed Calvary.  5 or 25 years. (x)
Marble Phalanx - Lunar - Heavy inf. 25 years. Lunar army. (750)
Pavis Royal Guard - Pavis - ??(x)
Silver Shields - Lunar - Medium Inf. 25 years. Lunar army. (750)
Sir Holburn's Axe Brothers - Ind. - Heavy Inf. 5 years. Lunars now. (x)
Sun Dome Spears - Yelmalio - Medium Infantry. 20 years (x)
Sunspear Guards - Yelmalio - Light Infantry mercenaries.(x)

Miscellaneous Characters -

Aelios - Free - Krogar's familiar.
Andor Yanth - Pavis - Dolphin gang member.
Asderand Quarrywalker - Dwarf - Dwarf negotiator.
Backhus the Wolf - Ind. - Frequentor of Gimpy's.
Big Nygg - Pavis - Bar-goer. Griselda.
Birrinarus - Ind. - Issaries merchant.
Bob - Pavis - Owns bisonburger shop.
Blonde Piper - Ind. - Curvacious lass who sings.
Bung the Bright - Pavis - Beggar
Butari - Pavis - PC, bird seller. Grandson of Holy County immagrant.
Canard the Snout - Pavis - Beggar.
Carver Donan - Pavis - Djo Lo bar goer.
Cha'Chi - Ind. - Newtling Acolytes of Zola Fel.
Chooga - Lunar - Troll nightwatch sgt. KL and Pavis cult follower.
Churchak the Quick - Ind. - Trollkin.  Trainer, gang leader (10).
Darius Oranius - Lunar - Retired Lunar Hoplite trainer.
Derek Dwarfriend - Dwarf - Runs Derek's Fine Polearms, Flintnail RL.
Digby - Lunar - Spoken word agent.
Dikkop - Free - Chalana Arroy init. at the temple.
Djo Lo - Pavis - Owns tavern.
Drelfon Barath - Pavis - Butcher.
Durdath - Yelmalio - Stooge to Thranden Clubfoot of suntown.
Elsa - Pavis - Bar goer from Adari. Griselda.
Embat - Pavis - Dolphin gang member.
Eparikondos - Ind. - Sword Sage Speech teacher, RL.
Esko - Ind. - Stable owner.
Fandrikius Pharzool - Pavis - King of the beggars.
Filbar - Ind. - Petty nobleman, weapons trainer.
Fylchar - Ind. - Griselda gang member.
Foul Eddy - Pavis - Salt mine manager in rubble.
Gavial Latish - Free - LM priest, RL. Does court duty sometimes.
Ghanara Eberhell - Lunar - Ingilli solicitor.
Glurf - Ind. - RL of Zola Fel.
Goldfang - Pavis - Runs inn with fish fights.
Goram - Dwarf - Dwarf running Goram's sturdy weapons, RL.
Graehame Finehand - Free - Assistant librarian LM.
Griselda - Ind. - Pavis notable adventuress and thief.
Grovman the Sandreader - Pavis - Beggar.
Hanufa - Pavis - Friend of Griselda.
Hargart the Blade - Ind. - Notorius rubble bandit.
Hargo Khan - Nomad - Bison storm bull khan.
Harli - Lunar - Runs a gang of thieves.
Harnafel - Free - Ex-Lankhor Mhy priest sells magic items, RL, PC.
Harran the Golden - Yelmalio - Hires explorers for rubble expeditions.
Hermosius - Lunar - Ex-soldier runs Honest Hermosius' Fine Weapons.
Herra - Ind. - Zola Fel Acolyte riverperson.
Holfar - Ind. - Movement school teacher from Holy County.
Homar - Lunar - Tavern, fish stew, Ingilli owned and operated.
Horo - Ind. - Lunar with trained moon poodles, dog act.
Hubba - Pavis - Healer. Griselda.
Hyalor - Yelmalio - Stable for Suntowners.
Jarang Bladesong - Free - Outlaw from Adari. Cradle.
Jareen - Pavis - Former adventuress, runs inn.
Jaronak th Bright - Yelmalio - Brighteye Spear School ,RL.
Kost the Tracker - Ind. - Desert Tracker, former Zebra, bison friend.
Kroked - Ind. - Griselda gang member.
Krolar - Lunar - Spoken word agent.
Krunzig Ogg - Troll - Great troll death lord of Zorak Zoran.
Lankin - Pavis - Fine Fellows gang member.
Lilina - Pavis - Owner Loud Lolina's.
Marollo - Ind. - Runs escort service for rubble.
Mawton the Glutton - Pavis - Beggar.
Miltry - Pavis - Gimpy.
Moe - Pavis - Fine Fellows gang member.
Mollick - Pavis - Fine Fellows gang member.
Morari Two(six) Feather - Nomad - Bison riding storm bull.
Morey the Short - Pavis - Gimpy.
Oakly Gauntest - Ind. - Crippled badside illuminate.
Ockasiola the Zebran - Ind. - Leader of gang of Storm Bull chaos hunters.
Ojin Calker - Pavis - Orlanthi init. and freedom fighter.
Olav Dickin's-son - Gossip and con-man.
Old Gil - Pavis - Bar-goer.
Old Mellowy - Lunar - Duke Raus' manservant.
Ongh - Pavis - Dolphin gang member.
Pallinu Vibi - Pavis - High priest of Mani, leader on Mani's fort.
Parzel - Pavis - Gimpy.
Phinphobs Longhead - Lunar - Antelope Lancer sgt.
Ragger - Pavis - Fine Fellows gang member.
Ragna the Wrestler - Pavis - Bar goer. Chaotic.
Red Hot - Ind - Female tough. Griselda
Ronar - Free - Orlanthi priest sentanced to the salt mines.
Sakurno - Ind. - Mystic from Holy Country, acts clubs.
Scar - Pavis - Fine Fellows gang member.
Scharman Ingilli - Ind. - Trainer. Imperial, but save cradle?
Serena Jonglure - Lunar - Weaponsmaster, related to Malavar Patroma family.
She'ella - Ind. - Newtling Acolyte of Zola Fel.
Silibar - Pavis - Runs an inn. Gambling is main attraction.
Simbal - Ind. - Griselda gang member.
Slarge - Pavis - Insane beggar leads begger king's enforcer gang.
Snakefang -  Pavis - Djo Lo bar goer, mumblypeg master.
Surrak Shonar - Ind. - Impala rider trainer.
Sweet-talking Shamus - Pavis - Griselda friend.
Swifty - Ind. - Swindler, con-man. Griselda
Te'e - Ind. - Newtling Acolyte of Zola Fel.
Teuche'esta - Ind. Newtling fisher and teacher.
Thurkan Thumper - Ind. - Teacher and Zorak Zorani. Anti-Lunar.
Tokel - Pavis - Leatherworker.
Topknot - Pavis - Bar goer. Griselda.
Treasure Trove Hurbi - Pavis - Map salesman.
Uncle Kevin the Spirit Guide - Pavis - Beggar.
Wolf - Pavis - Fine Fellows gang member.
Wolfhead - Ind. - Thief and friend of Griselda.
Wonkl'baldarky the Rubble Guide - Pavis - Beggar.
Wulf the Warg - Pavis - Djo Lo bar goer.
Yarath Rantu (Riveps) - Pavis - Dolphin gang member.
Zibet Merne - Lunar - Court administrator.

Miscellaneous Pavis -

Blood Knives - Ind. - Badside street punk gang.
Chanteymen - Lunar - 3 Fisher singers.
Chosen - Yelmalio - Street punk gang.
Deadheads - Pavis - Street punk gang.
Dolphins - Pavis - Street punk gang.
Fine Fellows - Pavis - Street punk gang.
Minstrels Three - Ind. - 3 Singers.
Red Bastards - Lunar - Street punk gang.
Skinners - Pavis - Street punk gang.
Wandering Carnival - Ind. - Magnificent Plomber Brother's Wayfaring Carnival.

Guilds -

Bronze Worker
Clothing and Leather Worker
Jewelry Worker
Merchant
Minstrel
Riverman
Weaponmaster

Lanbril Gangs -

Black Fang - Pavis - One black fang gang is present.
Hole Lords - Pavis - Biggest, oldest, connected to the Rat. to Lunars? (x)
Harli's Men - Lunar - Second largest, work with Gimgim.(x)
Knobby's Nippers - Pavis - Mostly young kids that rob and steal.(x)

Rubble Gangs -

Fivewinds - Lightbinger gang associated with the Frees.
Pavis Survivors - Heis to the original defenders of Pavis.
Pik's Wanderers - Nomads and almost Gargarthi.
Sablefoe - Sable haters.
Sarken's Gang - Control mint ususally, allied with zebra riders.
Scarface's Troop - Small baboon gang.
Tarsh Gang - Made up of Tarsh exiles.

Societies -

City Peacers
Free Pavisites
Friends of the City
Friends of the Empire
Imperials
Ingilli Riverside Association
Orlanth Allies

Elves (Rubble) -

Koncherry - Elf - Bandit (x)
Rohir Oaklimb - High Wood Lord of Aldrya (200)

Trolls (Rubble) -

Afengeng Clan - Clan based upon Arkati sorcery.
Grak Clan - Small clan allied to Krang.
Javis Clan - Near Ogre Island. Controls salt mines.(200)
Kaggroka Clan - Temple hill.(800)
Karrak Clan - Small clan allied to Krang.
Krang Clan - Troll clan (90) allied to Xaragang clan.
Loricek Clan - Next to Zola Fel. Many ZZ. Must guard Bridge.(300)
Misc. Clans. - About 20, largest 100. (900)
Xaragang Clan - Near Troll break. Governs trade. (300)

Aflam Banger - Hombobobom shaman of Afengeng clan.
Aziok Manylegs - Afengeng queen. Sorceress.
Aziok's Daughters - Azeer, Afen, Akilya, Aeeta. Ageng.
Bridge Guards - Abu, Drok the Catch, Harvu, Twag, Glob.
Ebony Gerralyn - Heads Kaggroka.  Most powerful KL troll in the rubble.
Javis Gan - Troll warrior. Cradle hirer.
Krang - Clan leader.
Kukudoom Tall One - Heads Xaragang.
Kutro - Dimwit brother of Zutuch.
Oundoud - Wife of Zutuch.
Rebecep - 1/2 head of Javis.
Robon the Leery - 1/2 head of Javis. Cares for salt mines.
Ziolan Onge - Heads Loricek.  KL and ZZ.
Zutuch - Troll raider band leader.
Zutuch's Raiders - Bora, Oderer, Ensli, Iverd, Gothant, Orshad, Mouk, Glod.

Miscellaneous Rubble -

Aladikis - Dwarf - Second site foreman, Flintanail temple.
Alvin Ringeye - Ind. - Duck storm bull.
Ancient Emili. Ind. - Vough.
Bison-Biter - Troll - Great troll ghost.
Bison Broos - Ind. - Chaos. Eaten, Gudge, Bosbos, One-Horn.
Blodanga Bloodsucker - Ind. - Vampire RL. BB.
Blue Annis - Ind. - Bluegloom Priestess in Puzzle canal.
Burrasca White - Free - Leader of the Fivewinds.
Cradle Thieves - Ind. - Seeker, Thedbrill, Poacher, Pouncer.
Cragclimber the Giant - Ind. - Beer loving jolly giant.
Crokar Littlespawn - Ind. - Troll gang leader. BB.
Crokar's Trollkin - Ind. - Jakson, Dejon, Yokon, Jagon, Solpik.
Crokar's Trollkin - Ind. - Cholpik, Sitpik, Roksun.
Crokar's Cave Trolls - Ind. - Sherban, Sugrunt.
Crokar's Great Trolls - Ind. - Gnashir, Gorjus.
Darkar Goodbrew - Ind. - Troll beer brewer friend of Crokar.
Darkclaw - Ind. - Tigerson Zorak Zoran undead gang leader.
Doekas Horseater - Ind. - Tarsh gang member.
Dulkan the Dive-Bomber - Ind. - Gargoyle killer.
Dulkan's Droppers - Ind. - Rocky, Vienwing, Stoneheart, Lithos, Hedge, Obsid.
Evelyn Longneck - Ind. - Duck lanbril thief.
Fila Onehand - Ind. - Tarsh gang member.
Fineman - Ind. - Illuminated chaos gang leader.
Firearrow Isha - Ind. - Leads Sablefoe gang.
Geoffri Ironeye - Ind. - Duck orlanthi thief.
Goobag - Ind. - Troll KL init.
Goobag's Trollkin - Ind. - Fleabeg, Doombeg, Scumbeg.
Greenich - Ind. - Vough.
Grilph - Ind. - Broo malia chaos gang leader.
Gusan the Brand - Ind. - Tarsh gang leader.
Halnas - Ind. - Black fang with mason cover.
Hendrek - Pavis - Outlaw/Adventurer.
Henery Spintail - Ind. - Duck orlanthi outlaw.
Highhowler - Ind. - Broo shamen and gang leader.
Highhowler's Gang - Ind. - Grubgulper, Gutslicer, Bonegummer, Goatgrunter.
Highhowler's Gang - Ind. - Plaguepusher, Dirteater, Earnotch, Twisthorn.
Highhowler's Gang - Ind. - Czing, Kzag, Forkang, Kong.
Horrath - Pavis - Outlaw/Adventurer.
Ironarm - Ind. - Humakti spirit.
Ithas Resh (senior) - Pavis - Leader Pavis Survivors.
Ithas Resh (junior) - Pavis - Sub-leader Pavis Survivors.
Jordak the Fang - Ind. - Vampire. BB.
Kagrunner - Ind. - Adventurer/Outlaw ex-waha.
Kandit - Ind. - Lanbril thief, outlaw.
Karzad - Dwarf - Chief mason, Flintanil temple.
Kocho Breaksword - Ind. - Tarsh gang member.
Leapers - Ind. Chaos. Epus, Jak, Pitr, Ochre, Schvine, Dog, Jax.
Losers - Ind. - Chaos. The Worm, Host, Wretch, Bloat, Manus, Ubskin, Ringpin.
Morgeneth Starmaiden (Rune Star) - Ind. - Yelornan High Priestess. (20)
Mutations - Ind. - Chaos gang. Gripsex, Einak, Rabnai, Thobute, Gagnik.
Namul Pol - Pavis - Involuntary Tarsh gang member.
Noyeep - Ind. - Thed priest chaos gang leader.
Nuckelavee - Ind. - Sea Demon of the Puzzle Canal.
One-leg - Ind. - Crippled rhino rider slave of Tarsh gang.
Pharzeela Bloodwoman - Ind. - Tarsh gang member.
Pik Bad Rhino - Ind. - Leader of Pik's Wanderers.
Prokinizzie - Dwarf - First site foreman, Flintnail temple.
Ravening - Ind. - Hjman thed initiate chaos gang leader.
Rhogam Redfriend - Lunar - Commander lunar patrol.
Rocky - Ind. - Goobag's gargoyle pal.
Sarken. - Lunar - Leader Sarken's Gang. Cousin to Hargran the Dirty.
Scarface - Ind. - Baboon gang leader.
Sharkad Bigbluster - Ind. - Troll pal of Crokar.
Slop and Slime - Ind. - Chaos. Tachi, Quarp, Mosca, Pkop, Pipunc, Syrph.
Somsadkei - Ind. - Outlaw/Adventurer waha init.
Stens - Ind. - Outlaw/Adventurer, secret lip of krast, pavis & zola fel.
Sylvilagos - Lunar - NCO on lunar patrol.
Tarleti Blackpouch - Ind. - Tarsh gang member.
Tortor Gravyblood - Ind. - Noted outlaw, hideout in Puzzle Canal.
Trollkin Zombies - Ind. - Une, Do, Twa, Cat, Sank, Secs.
Whindwistler - Ind. - Wyrm priest of Sun Dragon.
Yelornans - Ind. - Auda, Adelsa, Eryne, Hareun Fairtop, Walyne, Hildian.
Yelornans - Ind. - Balomia Firewood, Ambermast, Treungille, Cathea Silverhair.
Yelornans - Ind. - Shalana the Brown. Terram.
Zombies - Ind. - Chait, Baisakh, Jeth, Asarh, Sawan, Phagun.

---------------------

From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Emperors and Trinities
Message-ID: <940514093754_100270.337_BHL19-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 14 May 94 09:37:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4011

_____
Alex:

I loved "Not Red Enough Ken" and the G.R.C.! We all need more time to work!

__________________________
The Equal of the Apostles:

> MOB: No, no no!  A citizen of the Empire *is*, in my view, automatically
> a lay member of the Cult of the Emperor.

Isn't that what I said? It's what I meant! "Citizen of the Lunar Empire" 
would be translated into God Learnerese as "Lay Member of the Red Emperor's 
cult". If there were any GL's alive to do it. Just means they *DO* say Amen 
(traitor!), offer up a pinch of incense on his altar when required, etc.

Here's an example of Emperor Worship in the real world, from a speech 
welcoming Diocletian to Milan:

:   "As your divinity shone from the ridge of each of the Alps, a brighter
: light shone over the whole of Italy and all who looked up were struck
: with wonder and doubt as to whether the gods had risen to the mountains
: or whether they had descended to earth from the sky.
:   "But as you came nearer, people began to recognise you. All the fields
: were filled not only with men rushing to see you, but also by the herds
: of cattle which abandoned their distant pastures and glades..."

Moo!

Presumably the audience at the time found this excessive adulation about as 
plausible as the Tory Party Conference's "spontaneous" standing ovations. 
Except in Glorantha, this kind of stuff really happens... (I loved Danny 
Boy's Byzantine/Lunar halo for Moonson in that mosaic in Tales #8, BTW).

_____________
Martin/Joerg:

I find the idea that all Malkioni saints are recognised and worshipped by 
all of the sects ludicrous, and will not countenance it. Under this logic, 
Mohammed would be a Christian Saint* (and, one presumes, a Jewish Prophet). 
Nothing wrong with following history to find out who believes what: each 
sect recognises every saint along the trunk of its common ancestry, but 
branches out on its own when the "heretical" point of divergence comes.

* Harry Turtledove covered this well in "Agent of Byzantium", an alternate 
history which included the Arab convert Saint Mouamet's hymn, "There is no 
god but the Lord, and Christ is His Son".

> P.S. I'll consider any flames and/or quibbling about side issues
> to signify agreement with the main point unless otherwise
> explicitly stated, OK?

I explicitly disagree with this attitude. If I choose not to address your 
main point, it does not mean that I accept it. Only a lawyer would state 
otherwise -- thus Cicero's fallacy, "dum silent, tacent" ("If the audience 
are sitting in stony silence, it means they agree with me"). Bollocks, then 
as now.

____________
Sandy wrote:

> I could probably be convinced of the necessity of a Malkioni  
> Trinitarianism only if I were also convinced of the Trinity as a  
> basic and powerful mythological concept.

I'm not convinced of it, but I did find another one in Glorantha. Try the 
Four Corners of the Earth Rune:

	The Mother		Gata
	The Daughter		Empress Earth
	The Holy Ghost		Earth Witch

And, presumably on a pedestal*:

	The Father		Genert

Three members of the socially- and religiously-dominant sex, with a partner 
thrown in to act as generative role-model for the 'lesser half'.

* Incidentally, there's an Esrolite city called "Pedastal". Shurely shome 
connecshion?

====
Nick
====

PS: Back to Emperor Worship again. Everyone knows about July and August,
but they're the month-names that have stood the test of time. In Cyprus, 
just a dozen years after Actium, the calendar months went: "Augustus, 
Agrippa, Livia, Octavia, Julia, Nero, Drusus, Aphrodite, Anchises, Rome, 
Aeneas, Capitol". Bit like Auld Newspeak... this kind of rubbish scuppered 
poor old Ovid's poetic calendar, though.

---------------------

From: cullen.oneill@thuemmel.com (CULLEN O'NEILL)
Subject: One cult, One god.
Message-ID: <940514125041298@thuemmel.com>
Date: 14 May 94 11:11:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4012


Just thought I'd put in my two cents:

Joerg Baumgartner in X-RQ-ID: 3975
> Let's take an Orlanth initiate in recently conquered Pavis County who
> wants to avoid additional trouble with the Lunar occupators. Living
> in the upper River of Cradles, he makes a life out of farming and plo
> which makes him essentially somewhat of an initiate of Barntar and
> the Grain Goddess.

A lay worshiper maybe not an initiate (see below).

> All (85%) Orlanthi males are initiated to Orlanth (KoS p.245f).

To me the idea that 'All Orlanthi males' need to be actual
initiates is ridiculous.  Most are probably just lay members.  I
regard all information from KoS with suspicion anyway.

> Is this worthy associated with e.g. Eiritha, Babeester Gor or other
> associates of Ernalda? Since he uses oxen to plow, possibly with Eiri
> If he tends an orchard, maybe even with Aldrya? Is he associated with
> the Lightbringers? With Heler? With Mastakos? Urox? Humakt? Valind?

I think associate cults were created to address this exact point.

> All of these, with varying degrees. If you can express this in
> the one man - one cult scheme, you are well off. I can't really.

The whole idea of initiation to me is of the initiate identifying
himself with a particular god(dess).  His relationships with the
other gods then would be similar to his gods relationships with
that god.  He would probably have his relationships with those
other deities laid out in myths.  Also the word associated comes
up...   he would be associated with those religions that there is
a mythologically defined association with.  He might be a guest
at the worship services of some of these other deities, but they
are not his Archetype (ie: he isn't trying to become like them)
as is the case of Orlanth (in your example)

on another topic:
Roderick Robertson in X-RQ-ID: 3986
>    For Europe, I thought there just wasn't much in the way hot spices.
> Lots of garden herbs, but no peppers, thus the need to go India.
> However, history of cuisine is not my forte (Where does Paprika come
> from?).

This makes me wonder what then is the analogue for the European passion
for pepper, which was incredible during the Renisance??

Cullen