From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 26 May 1994, part 5 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: firstname.lastname@example.org (David Dunham) Subject: City catchup; trading; Black Wind; priests; crafters; supplements Message-ID: <199405252051.AA10775@radiomail.net> Date: 25 May 94 20:51:50 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4175 Devin Cutler says >David Dunham writes"We always spent a lot of time training. You can bring >some element of play >into this unplayed time by using the catchup tables in RQ Cities (those are >my tables, even if Midkemia forgot to give me credit)." > >Really? I like this supplement a lot, and use it for PC's who retire out of >the campaign for a while (due to real life considerations) Midkemia came up with the original concept, but I sold them a revised version which was about three times the size of the original. Mike Dickison asked about trading. Some of my fondest gaming was running my Issaries character in caravans to Balazar [old-timer reminiscence alert: out of print supplement about to be mentioned]. I confess part of the joy might have been the ease of making money, since the Balazar price lists in Griffin Mountain were quite different from the standard RuneQuest lists. Unfortunately, they provided no guidelines for the GM, who did eventually decide our caravans were saturating the market. >How do you handle ordinary meat-and-potatoes >non-Biturian trading? My anthro/archeology is rusty, but I do know that trade in luxury goods (feathers, shells, rare furs, gold, amber) and obsidian (in the New World at least) was quite common and extensive in ancient times. So one answer is, you _don't_. Biturian Varosh [for those who don't have Cults of Prax, he was the Issaries trader whose travels form the narrative] is accurate. And in any case, PCs are going to be Trader Prince subcult, not Garzeen. BTW, in Roman times, it was usually cheaper to ship by water than by land. Britain exported grain to Rome! (This may be an exception to my earlier statement, but I think Rome is also an exceptional case.) >A table of the common trade goods in my area, with centres of >origin and common destinations I'd love to see this. Here are a couple sections from my East Ralios background: Trade Most clans are self-sufficient in everything except salt and raw metals. Markets are rare, in most clans happening about once a season. Trade is dominated by the Doskior and Argan Argar cults, though occasionally an Issaries caravan from Vesmonstran shows up. The tribal rings provide protection to guests in exchange for certain trading rights, such as first choice of the items sold. Imports: weapons and armor, salt, cloth, metal, glass items, shells, luxury goods. Exports: leather goods, furs, feathers, wood, gems. Internal trade: beer, wheat, soapstone, jewelry. Money The Orlanthi don't mint coins. Safelstran danars are sometimes used, but most often trade is by barter or reciprocal gift-giving. Items are valued in terms of dairy cows. >archive the result in soda.berkeley Why would you want to hide the results away so those of us without Internet access can't get at them? Boris presented the Temple of the Black Wind. It seems awfully _organized_ for an Orlanthi organization (or are Heortlanders far more densely populated than I picture?). It appears to be somewhat pyramidal in nature, how many people are members? If there are only two people per member at 6th Circle and below, that gives the organization 442 members. If the pyramid is 1:7 all the way down, then there are over 137000 members! Graeme Lindsell noticed > In River of Cradles I noticed that the requirements to become a Storm >Priest have increased significantly: the Storm Priest now needs 90% in 3 >skills. In fact, there isn't a single rune level in any of the RoC write-up >that deosn't need at least one skill at 90% (I include the shamans of Daka >Fal, as only a fool would wan't to try to create a fetch without 90%+ >Summon). Is this part of a deliberate move to make rune levels harder >to attain, or is it only a change in Orlanth? In Dorastor: Land of Player >Character Disposal Services Dorasta and Telmor still have the old 50% in >5 skills for priesthood or acolyte status. I welcome the change (I think), as it seemed that becoming an acolyte (almost all religions that have this status have the same requirements as for priests without as many restrictions, so most players would take this road to reusable rune magic) was too easy, being mostly a matter of time (50% skill is easy, 10 surplus POW is relatively easy). Though I think the new Storm Voice requirements might be too tough. River of Cradles still doesn't have as much detail as I'd like on the Herald Goodword subcult. Do they have priests (and if so, what 90% skill?) Do they have special magic (like the spell used by Queen Leika's Speaking Companion on KoS.214, which makes an old story seem new)? >From: WALLMAN@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (Close friend of Little Elvis) >Is there a deity in Glorantha dedicated to crafters and artisans? Gustbran is God of Smiths, Minlinster is God of Brewers Mike Dawson asked >One of the recurring complaints about past books is that > they are too expensive. True, I know people who didn't buy Strangers in Prax because it seemed quite expensive relative to its size. If had been the $12 you claim for 96-page products (or even $14), I know you'd have sold more copies. Around here, people tend to share books around (I buy everything but I'm just like that). While I dislike the idea of having to pay $22 for the complete Red Moon stuff, it's probably better that you have more products out there, at a reasonable price. I don't know if $10 seems reasonable for something as small as 32 pages, however. Especially as the new Soldiers of the Red Moon is basic background you want everyone to have a copy of. Enough for today, tomorrow I'll post my East Ralios initiation report. --------------------- From: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller) Subject: relative glorantha Message-ID: <01HCRHEAMFTU8WWOK5@wharton.upenn.edu> Date: 25 May 94 12:06:47 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4176 As one of the prime instigators of the relative glorantha movement I would credit its beginnings to a need to make it easier to play RQ in Glorantha, not harder. If we have an absolutist Glorantha where Orlanth (not Humakt, since he cut off all his ties and so his cult is qualitatively different from other cults---it has no associate or sub-cults---and so Humakt makes a bad example) is worshipped identically everywhere then where am I if I write a fun scenario that delves into a "mystery" of the Orlanth cult and want to publish the scenario? If I use a publicly known "mystery" then it isn't a mystery, is it? If I invent my own mystery, then I have just added to Orlanth's cult, and very likely invented an incompatibility with other campaigns. Once it gets published you are faced with a choice. If you decide that Gloranthan cults are objective and uniform then you have to rewrite the scenario or discard it. If you decide that Gloranthan cults vary among different worshippers then you can use the scenario without changing it and without changing the established facts in your campaign. In any case there are several pieces of evidence which support the theory that cults vary across the face of Glorantha. 1. There is a fundamentally different earth goddess for every region. 2. Heroquesting changes mythic truth. 3. Heroquesting requires community support for long-lasting changes. Communities are regional by their nature. 4. Some stories are only known in one place or among one group of people. What is a myth other than a true story? 5. Every worship service is a heroquest. (I think I was the first on this forum to state this flat out, but Greg said exactly the same thing at the RQ-Con Heroquesting seminar.) With constant worship there must be constant minor adjustments to the cult. These minor adjustments have to be local in effect, or it would get a lot uglier than regional variations as the cult would change precipitously every year. Summing up, the relativistic Glorantha is a means to make it easier for game players in Glorantha, not harder. You can still use all the absolute facts you want, AND you can change them too. whoah, +++++++++++++++++++++++23 Loren Miller internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu "Enough sound bites. Let's get to work." -- Ross Perot sound bite --------------------- From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke) Subject: Scholarly Stuff Message-ID: <940525230504_100270.337_BHL21-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 May 94 23:05:04 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4177 ___________ Joe Lannom: > I for one would like to play/run an individual character that started as > a child, with a child's skills and run it until adulthood. It can be great fun to do this. Ask Ottar, Cottar, Pepsin and Ulf (if I get the names right), the Bad Big Boys who apparently gave my sibs and cousins such a hard time at kick-the-ball games that they *still* resent it these days. Another stroke of David Hall's early genius... I also enjoyed a brief run in a campaign of David Scott's, which had begun with pre-initiation Yelmalion kids, whose every skill percentile above base chance had been gained through play. This was a *very* moving experience, quite apart from the "Kid Wars" it provoked; especially when our childhood chums turned themselves into human pancakes... > OK, I've got my summer project now... a series of childhood adventures > for Orlanthi. I look forward to seeing the results! A tip: historical fiction written for children often has good scenario ideas for this level of play, IMHO. Also, remember a common function of such introductory scenarios: teaching rules mechanics to new players, as in Apple Lane's "initiation", brawl and the Griffin Mountain scenes of life among the Balazarings. _____ Boris posted a Secret Society. I enjoyed it. No quibbles! _____ Sandy wrote: > I predict that ... there is a forbidden thief "Saint" worshipped in > Northpoint or Tanisor by Malkioni burglars. If he's a Saint, thus IYHO automatically recognised by all Malkioni, this would rather spoil his disguise, no?
I thought Lanbril had the better idea: stay anonymous and faceless, so nobody can pin the crimes of the "Universal Thief God" onto him... ______ Joerg: > Illuminates are immune to spirits of reprisal [because] they don't feel > the guilt the spirits need for homing in on the miscreant. I like this, and believe it. I had not formulated it like this before. > I believe that there are a lot of henotheist churches ... in Ralios. Agreed. Ralios is the most likely place for any weird Stygian heresy, and appears positively Byzantine in the profusion of its variant beliefs. _____ Alex: > I think the _bulk_ of Heortlanders would see being a sorcerer/wizard as > being incompatible with most cult vows. Among the Greydogs, we see being a Lhankor Mhy Grey Sage as incompatible with normal clan life. But that doesn't mean we forbid our clansmen to join the cult, or burn those who come calling. We just think they're a bit odd. I imagine any wizards among the Aeolians operate in a similar social niche. ______________ Mike Dickison: All the following re: trade is merely IMHO. I believe there are Gold mines in the Yolp Mountains; the rivers that flow from them were panned by Dara Happans. Amber comes from Garsting [a Blank Land, so please forget I mentioned it!], on the shores of the Elf Sea. You can borrow more details from John James's excellent book, "Votan". Insurance schemes: likeliest providers are the Carmanians (per Paul Reilly) or the Safelstran minor nobility (per my own Medici fiscal fantasies). Hope these help. _______________ Peter Whitelaw: > Has anyone ever noticed how few questions ever get answered here? ... > Someone else asked about the Gagarthi (Chris someone) did he get any > answers? Not one. I asked if anyone wanted me to post a load of non- > Gloranthan material for your perusal, delectation, comment or dismissal. > But one lonely reply. What a load of crap! I recall at least three helpful posters giving Chris Someone chapter and verse on Gagarth, before Sandy posted the entire text of the official Chaosium cult write-up. Were you asleep at the time? I thought I was doing you a kindness by not rejecting your offer of "some non-Gloranthan campaign notes from a friend's campaign" sight unseen. I imagine that they would not be my cup of tea; that they would fit better in a Digest format which allows us some control over receipt (as happened with Sandy's wonderful Tekumel conversions). Why not ask Henk about the chances of your material earning this? As you want answers, *any* answers: No, I don't believe I'd be interested in them. That's two replies, now. Happy? Gee, that wasn't very harmonious and productive of me! But I get irritated when the good things about this Daily are ignored, and I thought the speed of our Gagarth (and other) turnarounds was a fine and noble achievement. Obviously some folk missed it. Maybe they were off grinding axes at the time... ___________ Ed Wallman: > Is there a deity in Glorantha dedicated to crafters and artisans? Iphigios the Craft God springs to mind. Designed the acropolis of Jillaro; Second Wane History of the Lunar Empire. Arachne Solara weaves, of course. Cults of Prax disdained to name the god of tailors (too trivial!). Gustbran works all kinds of metals; Lodril may be a bakers' or potters' god; Uleria appreciates and embodies all beautiful things. Just random thoughts. ----------------------------------------- Time for some invective, to cheer Sam up. I'll follow Graeme, who noted: > If people want the Daily to have more rules topics, then post and discuss > them. I must admit to seeing very few followups of rules articles on the > Daily; they tend to post and then vanish. This speaks for itself, really. If you don't like reading what I write, write something positive yourself! Don't waste our time whinging about perceived trends in Gloranthan scholarship, while the major part of the audience, voting with its typing fingers, ignores your rules postings... Perhaps our Devin should reread the RQ:AiG and/or RQ Daily archives, if he imagines I never write on rules mechanics. Or check with Oliver & Co about the proofreading and mech-check I did for RQ:AiG's last draft. As Peter's post, above, this red herring irritates me no end! A hate-figure is being set up: the "Gloranthan Scholar Who Never Plays RuneQuest And Ruined My Game". Whoever he is, he ain't me! In a harmonious, productive and amicable sense: put up or shut up. Write: don't faff around complaining that other people are doing it instead. And, if you don't have anything interesting to say, announcing that this is the case is hardly worth your while or mine. ==== Nick ==== --------------------- From: DevinC@aol.com Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 25 May 1994, part 1 Message-ID: <email@example.com> Date: 26 May 94 00:42:09 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4178 Devin Cutler here: Joerg writes: "53 Lightnings instead would incinerate anything, even a true dragon..." Really? What do you base this on? 53 lightning is going to do an average of 185.5 hp of damage. Somehow, I think a kilometre log True Dragon is going to way tougher. Does anyone have any secret info on True Dragons (like Stats)? Martin Crim writes: " How can your characters, in the third age, tell whether the temple is Kolat's, some connected air god's, or some unconnected air god's? I submit they have no way of knowing for sure, based on the remnants of the temple" Well, remember this temple thing is only an example, although it is starting to resemble some aspects of the real sceanrio. But what if an inscription over an archway says "Blessed be Kolat, Father of the Spirits of the Winds"? "But check out the Humakt write-up from TotRM for some reasonable variations (like the lottery swords)." Lottery swords are an example not of variation but of addition, of which I have no problem. " I see no danger of driving people away because of the existence of a small coterie of hard-core fanatics to whom Glorantha is more than a gaming world. If people are bored by or (heaven forfend) intimidated by the Daily, why do they read it?" No one is saying the Scholarly stuff should go. The attitude that game-stuff is worthless is what should go! Peter writes: "Someone else asked about the Gagarthi (Chris someone) did he get any answers? Not one." I seem to remmeber that he was anwered. That he was given an explanation of Gagarth and then referred to the TOTRM issue that has a full writeup. Did you miss this? Nick writes: " I wonder if your interest in standardising religions and societies across the world is in some way connected to the speed with which you move through it? " Do not be misled by the breadth of the areas mentioned in my campaign. Over 35 Gloranthan years have passed since its inception. My scope may be greater, but the speed is probably similar to many campaigns. My interest in standardising religions is not an absolute one, it is a reaction to a trend to over-unstandardise that has developed of late. Personally, I would like to see a balance. But since the trend seems to be multiplicity at all costs....I must put on my standardisation helmet and stomp my feet. "> If Glorantha is not a vehicle to play RQ in, then what exactly is it? Hmmm... why did nobody ask Greg that, back in '66?" Certainly, to Greg, Glorantha is something more than RQ, hence its preadting RQ. But for the majority of us, Glorantha came part and parcel with RQ. They were intertwined and, for many of us, inseparable. So, I really don't care that Greg, when he created Glorantha, didn't envision RQ. The fact remains that Glorantha's popularity, indeed the only reason we know about the world at all and are discussing it now, is because of its attachment to games (i.e. RQ, WBRM, and NG). Because of this, Glorantha is, in my mind, primarily a vehicle in which to roleplay. That is how it was introduced to me, that is why I purchased the stuff, and that is why I continue to play in it today. Alex writes: "The trouble with a One True Glorantha is that many people may not like it. If there is inconsistency, it may annoy some people, but if Glorantha was a rigid orthodoxy, then anyone who happened to dislike it would be considerably more disadvantaged. " When did I espouse rigid orthodoxy? I am saying that there should be a balance....not the current trend towards rampant inconsistency. I am not asking "why can't EVERYTHING be consistent?" I am asking "why does everything have to be inconsistent?" " And if such did exist, determining which Age it was built in would require rather a lot of archeological expertise on the part of the characters, I think." Really? I have very little archaelogical expertise, and I can tell the difference between the ruins of a 16th century castle and a 4th century fortress. In any case, maps scribed on stone, dates written on sarcophaggi, et al can establish dates firmly. In any event, as we delve deeper into Heroquest rationalizations, I start to wonder why I should have to go through such mental and logical gyrations anyways. In any event, I would be interested in taking this discussion off line with anyone who would like, since I believe we have hashed out about as much as we can on the net. If our offline discussions turn up anything new, I would then post a summary. It seems that, in general, no one is willing to admit that there is even a PERCEIVED problem out there on this issue, despite the fact that others agree with me, so it seems the status quo shall reign. Regards, Devin Cutler firstname.lastname@example.org --------------------- From: DevinC@aol.com Subject: Campaign Stories Message-ID: <email@example.com> Date: 26 May 94 00:42:17 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4179 Devin Cutler here (breaking away from the Gamers/Scholars debate): Would the Daily be an appropriate place for people to tell us about there campaigns? By this I mean a short narrative of the current situation or of an interesting antecdote. Some of the characters that Nick mentioned in the Daily intrigued me, and I wouldn't mind hearing more about them. I especially enjoyed the tale of Urrrgh the Ugly, and would like to see more from other campaigns. Anyone game? Regards, Devin Cutler firstname.lastname@example.org