From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 28 May 1994, part 2
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Another Earth parallel for Ralios
Message-ID:
Date: 27 May 94 07:57:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4208
Gary Newton in X-RQ-ID: 4157
> Linked with this is Graeme Lindsell's interesting comment about Tsarist
> Russia. As I tried to say previously, I'm not wild about "Earth in Glorantha",
> but a couple of interesting parallels struck me -
One Earth parallel for Ralios which seems to have escaped note is the
late Frankish and early German "Roman" Empire. The north Italian city
states of the Lombard union still were squabbling among themselves, as
were the clerically ruled city-states of Germany. From the north, Saxons,
Vikings and Danes threatened the safety, from the east Slavs, and horse
nomads. While the Saxon/Viking parallel for the Orlanthi is well reported,
the Slav parallel has been ignored. The western Slavs had been
christianized slowly by German efforts, often by force, much like Rokari
Malkionism was spread in Ralios. Heretical deviations blossomed among these,
one of the most important, the Hussites', to break open a few centuries
later. Slavic housing and lifestyle isn't too different from the other
earth parallels for Orlanthi either, although the more shamanistic Slavic
nations which coexisted later with urban German culture had something of
Hsunchen.
The Awars and Magyars could have been the horse-riding Galanini and/or
Dangkim of earlier ages, or the rests of these still living their
traditional lifestyle. Another (admittedly crooky) parallel to the eastern
invaders could have been the Halikiv trolls.
> OK, enough of the Earth parallels. I'm afraid they're a good jumping off point
> for hang-glidings of the imagination, but Gloranthan "reality" dictates the
> way things unfold... (erm... possibly...)
Just so. That's why we use them. And the more the better, so we don't
become too fixed in our perception.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
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From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: RE: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 26 May 1994, part 5
Message-ID: <9405270934.AA14942@Sun.COM>
Date: 27 May 94 09:35:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4209
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From: pyspas@midge.bath.ac.uk (Paul Snow)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 27 May 1994, part 2
Message-ID:
Date: 27 May 94 12:02:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4210
Pam Carlson in RQ-ID #4186 says that we need more dogs in RQ.
I say where are the horses? ( Yes, I know - Pent) But we keep
hearing about Orlanth's Stead but what about his Steed?
In general characters treat there mounts like motorbikes as was
recently pointed by someone whose name I have forgotten. Don't let them!
I went pony trekking recently and found that horses are quirky, have
personalities and are not motorbikes. One pony insisted on paddling and
playing in the water each time we came to a stream and another pony wanted
to lead so kept nipping up to the front of the line. This all presumably
occurred because with horsemanship 1% we ponytrekkers were not in control.
It showed me though that this was an important part of ancient/fantasy
life that we ignore in most games. Are there ant true equestrians (?) /
horse riders out there who have worked on rules or have more detailed
comments on horses and their welfare? After all motorbikes don't get
colds.
Paul Snow
( Zebra/Ostrich riders can also reply if they happen to be reading)
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From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: True Dragons
Message-ID: <9405271210.AA26405@Sun.COM>
Date: 27 May 94 11:55:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4211
Hi All
Someone (Devin maybe) asked about True Dragons.
Sandy gave a concise reply to the effect that a True Dragon could
do just about anything it could THINK of and that they were
ALL GOING TO DIE.
For those who would prefer a slightly more mechanistic varient:
TRUE DRAGON
STR = SIZ + or - d100
CON = SIZ + or - d100
SIZ = length in metres times 10
INT = 4d6 base (remember Dragonewts) usually maxed out to 28 or more!
POW = SIZ + or - d100
DEX = 3d6 (Remember mountains are not reknown for moving fast!)
APP is like a Geological feature; very impressive but hardly beautiful!
Armour --> 1 point of skin armour per metre length.
Hit Points --> as normal (thus a 1km long Dragon has about 10,000 HP)
Move: Dragon's move deceptively slowly and ONLY cover their length in a
Round thus move = length divided by 10. For a 1km dragon this is 300kmh!
SPECIAL ABILITIES:
See and Reach into the Spirit and Hero planes.
Energy Control in an area with radius equal to the Dragon's length.
The Dragon can absorb, reflect, manipulate, twist or just ignore
any magical energy within this area.
This is limited to spells with MPs less than or equal to the Dragon's POW!
Limitted Omniscience: Dragon's know pretty much what they want to know
especially if it concerns them or dragonkind in general.
Strange Behaviour: Dragon's are always unpredictable and act in strange
and peculiar ways and are almost always inscrutable.
ATTACKS:
Most attacks are as a suitably scaled Dream Dragon (Note the Damage Bonus!)
However there are some exceptions:
Firey Breath:
Anyone caught in the area of the Braeth must make a POW% in order to find some
cover within dodging distance. Then must attempt a dodge with the results
given below.
Fumble --> Character is spontaneously vapourized together with ALL
equipment appart from one personal item chosen by the
GM (eg. smoldering left boot) also Truestone and Adamant
are unaffected but will be too hot to touch for days!
Failure --> Character and all non-metalic equipment is burnt to a
cinder, metals and glass are melted.
Success --> Character takes 10d10 damage and all non-metal equipment
is automatically burnt away. Metals may melt (see Lodril
Heat Metal Spell for more details and equate 5 points of
damage with each dice).
Special --> As above but character miraculously survives and is left
unconcious on 1 HP even if damage would have killed them.
Critical -> Character leaps down handy foxhole, pops the handy flat
rock over the top and seals the edges with mud from the
bottom of the hole. However there is too little time to
make a perfect job of it and some super heated gases leak
past the seal. The character takes damage equal to the
dodge percentage roll and their hair and clothing are
singed.
Poison Breath:
Produces a poisonous cloud. Characters are attacked by poison
of POT d100 each round they are in the cloud. A POW% allows the character
to *see* the danger coming and attempt to avoid it! The character is
affected by poison of POT equal to the dodge roll as they leave the area.
If they fail the dodge roll they are still within the area next round!
Acid Breath:
Produces a small lake of acid. As usual a POW% allows the character
to try to leave the area. The dodge roll is the number of points of damage
they take anyway as they flee. The GM should distribute the damage between
locations as they see fit. If the roll is a success they get clear that
round otherwise they are still in the soup! The acid does d20 points to each
location per round, magical protection helps but it is eaten through just
like normal armour!
Stomp:
Allows the Dragon to flatten anything with its foot provided it is
smaller than the dragon's SIZ divided by 10. The area flattened is equal
to one twentieth of the dragon's length in diameter (thus a 1km long dragon
stomps on a 50 metre diameter area). Everything under the foot takes damage
equal to the Dragon's damage bonus. A normal dodge halves the damage, a
special dodge divides the damage by 10 and a critical dodge allows the
character to avoid being stomped on! A Dragon may make one stomp per foot
per round.
Over Run:
This is the classic steam roller attack from Dragon Pass.
The Dragon moves at double speed in a straight line forwards, but drags its
belly along the ground. Everything caught under the Dragon takes 2d100
plus double the Dragon's damage bonus (ie. it is dead). However at the
end of the round the Dragon also suffers this damage due to impaling itself
on trees and hills etc. The Dragon's armour naturally helps to protect it.
Dragons may not attempt any other attacks when making an over-run attack,
but they may still manipulate energies mentally.
All in all the above results in exactly the same thing as Sandy's few
well chosen words, but if your players insist on Dragon baiting this
will allow you *to kill them off according to the rules*!
Not TOTALLY Tongue-in-Cheek
Lewis
P.S. Nick - where were you yesterday?
---------------------
From: niwe@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Campaign stories
Message-ID: <9405271457.AA06658@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 27 May 94 18:57:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4213
Nils Weinander writing
Devin Cutler wrote:
>Would the Daily be an appropriate place for people to tell us about there
>campaigns? By this I mean a short narrative of the current situation or of an
>interesting antecdote.
I would like to see such stories.
Sandy on the power level of our campaign:
> *wow*
I don't know if that's meant as awe or disapproval :-). Anyway, the
campaign has been going for some years now and we DO like high-powered
epic stuff.
Pam Carlson:
>THERE SHOULD BE MORE DOGS IN RQ!
Yuk! I hate dogs! :-) There was a lot of dog stuff in Griffin Mountain.
/Nils W
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From: jclannom@mathlab.mtu.edu (Joe Lannom)
Subject: NPC personaliy for others to use...
Message-ID: <9405271521.AA00147@mathlab.mtu.edu>
Date: 27 May 94 15:21:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4214
'lo
Here's one of my favorite NPC's that I've used in my campaign. Feel
free to use it, no stats included, just a background and basic
sketch.
I'll have to find something else to send Greg as a trade for his
ghost scenario... Hmm...
I used this guy to introduce the group to the more bizzare,
absolutely NON-HUMAN side of Trolls. Some things seem natural to us,
but not matter how hard someone else tries, they just can't get it
right...
-=-=-=-=-=-
Garthink Laughtooth, Argan Argar initiate.
Garthink Laughtooth is a great troll with artistic leanings and a
small brain. Being a little on the frail side, for a troll, he spent
more time listening to the tales of his ancestors than learning to
fight. He never acted unthinkingly like those destined to follow the
path of Zorak Zoran and fancied himself to be unto Eristi the doubter
who travelled and saw and thought about many things and understood
much.
Joining the cult of Argan Argar as soon as he could, he set out to
learn much about the world both in and out of darkness. During his
travels he saw one thing that made him feel very happy. A stage
play. THIS was the way to bring stories of the world back to his
people! All the tales of the story teller's were flat and two
dimensional... they could describe the characters as "big as
mountains" or "hungry as oakfed" but never could their descriptions
be as rich as what he saw on stage. These plays had scent, and taste
and texture so rich it made him drool! He set out to learn as much
about plays as possible.
None of the actors he talked to were able to communicate or, for that
matter, hold their water (I think it was his drooling and that hungry
look in his eye...) Dissapointed, he wandered back home determined
to somehow bring "plays" to the people of Uz. He met derision and
scorn when he tried to explain "plays" to the members of his clan.
They already -had- story tellers, and they did well enough. Why
bother with "plays" when they had other things to do. The mushroom
harvest was imminent and they needed all the free hands they could
muster.
Garthink took what goods he had procured on his travels and bought
some trollkin, ostensibly for supplies for his trip, and left the
clan after the harvest. Doing the best he could with his limited
knowledge and the poor materials he had, he wrote several plays each
of which represented a story that he had learned from the truth
speakers in his clan, and attempted to find an audience.
He knows that an audience is supposed to pay for any play it sees,
but does not really understand that audience memebership is usually
voluntary. He also does not understand that audience participation
is also voluntary. So, many of his audiences have been awkened from
slumber and slaughtered by value trollkin in "costume" acting out a
variety of troll battles.
Undaunted, Garthink roams the edges of Shadows Dance leaving calling
cards (chewed on squares of wood) that proclaim his availability for
initiation celebrations, school assemblies, and weddings.
"Laughtooth Acting Tromp,
Tales to make you scream
with wonder."
(Remember, never yell CUT! to a troll actor...)
-=-=-
joe lannom
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: various
Message-ID: <9405271652.AA01346@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 27 May 94 04:53:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4215
Pam Carlson rants:
>THERE SHOULD BE MORE DOGS IN RQ! Where are the big dogs who guard
>caravans at night? how could so many cultures fail to keep such a
>fabulously useful beastie?
er... (embarrassed shuffling) ... I guess it's really because
neither Greg nor me nor Steve Perrin have ever been particularly "dog
people". In my defense, I included Dog stats in RQ III, as well as
Wolf stats (suitable for big dogs).
I think that dogs are nigh-ubiquitous among most Praxian
herdsfolk. I picture Praxhounds as lean, mangy, ill-fed, mean,
cowardly things. One of their jobs is to slink around the campsites
and bark when something or someone shows up that they don't like. And
to eat offal.
I'm sure other cultures have them too. And I concur with Pam
that alynxes are no good for herding sheep.
Dave Dunham whines:
>But, but, I thought the Orlanthi are herders because they live in
>comparatively poor upland areas.
Really? I've always thought of them as farmers, myself. I
realize they do some herding, and that some clans subsist almost
entire on herding, but my picture of the basic Orlanthi is that of a
yeoman farmer with plow, ox, and maybe some pigs out back.
I guess it's Petersen/Dunham culture clash. I know the
Orlanthi brew beer and wine, so obviously they have grain and grapes.
You must be from some lush rainy place like Washington state,
Dave. Come visit Utah some day, and you'll see that "comparatively
poor upland areas" are able to grow some crops, too. The land in Utah
that is considered only suitable for cattle and sheep is REALLY bad
-- more like Prax than Sartar. I figure Dragon Pass is more like
Scotland or Wales. You can farm there, can't you? (Sam?)
Cullen O'Neill and Boris are having a discussion on multiple-deity
initiation. Technically, most cults are multiple-deity. Take Chalana
Arroy for instance. Arroin is an integral part of the cult. No doubt
at least one of her seasonal holy days is entirely centered on him,
while another one is probably shared between him and her. I bet
almost all CA temples have a big statue of Arroin somewhere (not as
big as CA's, but what the heck). In an Issaries temple you'll find
Garzeen, Goldentongue, etc. Orlanth's big carved log will show him
holding all five Sacred Weapons, at a minimum.
If by "multiple-deity" you mean only "cults in which all
participating deities are absolutely equal", then such cults ARE
rare, but I think that sub-cults should count as "gods worshiped by
the initiate". For that matter, associate cults deserve a mention. I
bet the High Holy Day prayer for Storm Bull includes lengthy mentions
and evocations of Ernalda, Eiritha, Zorak Zoran, etc.
For that matter, in my own campaign, my solution to the
problem espoused at great length by Joerg and Alex is that I permit
"switching" of one's initiate status from one cult to an associate
once in a lifetime, if you haven't become an acolyte or Rune level.
Hence, Orlanthi children growing up in my campaign are initiated to
Ernalda or Orlanth when they reach adulthood, but they then can
change over to Storm Bull, Issaries, etc. as they please without
having to pay double tithing. I have always felt that this was
workable in game-play, culturally acceptable, and simple.
Graeme Lindsell opines:
> My worry about the "wide open oppressed spaces" view of Ralios
>is I believe that such territories, with no natural boundaries
>to conquest, tend to form or be part of large empires. Like Russia,
>for example. Or Poland, that wonderful land where everyone goes to
>fight wars and devise new atrocities. Ralios on the other hand seems
>to be many small principalities over most of its domain.
Russia wasn't a big monolithic empire until fairly late in
time. Look at Germany -- it doesn't have what you'd call impenetrable
interior barriers, but wasn't a single state until 1871. Even France
and Britain in Roman times weren't a single country: well, France was
after it was conquered -- but after the Romans left, France spent
plenty of time being separate countries, with Burgundy, etc. floating
around the corners.
In any case, the "wide open oppressed" rule only needs to
apply to Safelster itself. The Orlanthi to the North and East aren't
particularly oppressed.
On Malkioni Castes:
>One interesting thing to note is that tecnically only the men belong
>to different castes; all the women belong to one of their own. At
>least among the Brithini.
This is true. I think that the Hrestoli have women join the
regular four castes, but they probably interpret the caste strictures
_very_ differently for men and women, as I picture Malkioni in
general as rather male-dominated. But I'm open to suggestions.
How about the Rokari? Do they have a separate Female caste?
Does it make chauvinistic sense for a woman to take on the caste of
her husband? Other suggestions?
Devin Cutler describes a practical joke he played on his players,
having them attacked by three times their number of (fake) broos.
What a great idea. I'm stealing it at once.
Paul Reilly sez:
>Short comment: I view the Malkioni religions as having more kinship
>with the various Hellenistic philosphies than with any Earthly
>religions per se.
I'll buy this, but with a strong dose of jingoistic
monotheism poured into the pot.
Put me on the Malkion mailing list, if one develops.
---------------------
From: cullen.oneill@thuemmel.com (CULLEN O'NEILL)
Subject: Associates
Message-ID: <940527042501305@thuemmel.com>
Date: 27 May 94 13:07:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4216
Alex in X-RQ-ID: 4160
A> I think Joerg's model, in seeking to liberalize worship in
A> broadly laudable ways, does serious damage to the established
A> significance and importance of cultic initiation.
Happily, my presence in this debate becomes superfluous... since this is
precisely the point I was attempting to make. I agree totally with what
is said here, and have tried to state the same in my posts.
A> I agree that individuals worship, in some sense, more than one deity
A> from the pantheon. Have been agreeing, loudly and seemingly
A> ignoredly. I just think it's a great mistake to devalue the meaning
A> of the status of Initiate so that "everyone gets to be an initiate of
A> everything". A much more profitable avenue, IM(NS)HO, would be leave
A> initiation (mostly) unmolested, and ask:
In order, I will attempt to start in on these questions:
A> "What magical benefits should accrue to a person not an initiate of
A> any cult, or to a person belonging to a different cult in the
A> pantheon?"
As I see it, what is needed is a broadening of the concept of associate
(or whatever term anti-GL'ers would prefer), I think maybe anybody who
is an initiate and participates in the rituals of a god can get the
spell that god gives to associate cults... as single use only.
A> "How do they take part in the worship of the given deity?"
(IMHO) they would take a mythologically defined role, if
possible, otherwise... uh temporary myths? I'm not really
sure... Orlanthi could probably come up with a story, they're
loose enuf... lunars have even more freedom with creative
mythology... perhaps to become an associate initiate, a myth
would be devised by the leaders of the cult???
A> "What do we call them?"
Associate initiate, or in character... "Our Orlanth initiate," (of a
Orlanth initiate associating with Barntar cult), etc... well its an
idea.
A> Yes, I see that analogy. Sounds like associate
A> worship to me. At least _some_ form of associate worship, even if
A> there are serious problems in the current rules. Are there?
Well, I've basically suggested making any non-hostile god a potential
associate... in my opinion the current rules are too rigid...
I'd like to take them as guidelines, and make permission of the
leaders of both cults the requirement, (ie: GM desicion).
A> I'm certainly not buying. If the local LM site or shrine is located
A> in the Barntar temple, then they are de facto associates whether the
A> rules say so or not. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is where I got my idea... just to give credit where its due.
---------------------
Loren J. Miller in X-RQ-ID: 4176
L> thing at the RQ-Con Heroquesting seminar.) With constant worship
L> there must be constant minor adjustments to the cult. These minor
L> adjustments have to be local in effect, or it would get a lot uglier
L> than regional variations as the cult would change precipitously every
L> year.
This would fit in well with my suggestion that associte cults
should be very flexible... Great info, Thanks!
Cullen