Bell Digest v940602p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 02 Jun 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest
format.

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


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From: john.hughes@anu.edu.au (John P Hughes)
Subject: Catching Up
Message-ID: <9406020324.AA05149@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>
Date: 2 Jun 94 18:20:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4310

GO INVISIBLE - THE ONLY GOD WITH A FUTURE! 

This posting is brought to you from the endless plains of Central Jolar, 
courtesy of the sail wagons of Mastakos. Keraun be blessed!

Howdy Folks,

Bryan Maloney, who is Vanna White? Just WHAT would I do with an anatomically 
correct doll of said person? Should I tell my wife?


SAUCE FOR THE SPPPAM

There was one 'major' category of marriage that I left out of my SPPPAM 
posting - group marriage, where a number of men enter into communal marriage 
with a number of women. I'm playing with it for Humakti and other 
professional cults where significant numbers of men and women might live 
together for long periods of time. Children would be relatively few 
(women warriors would ensure adequate contraception - and have the 
presence to back it up!), and they would usually be raised by the temple as 
'sons and daughters' of the god - literally 'children of the regiment'.

THE MOST IMPORTANT SPELL OF ALL

On SPPPAM, I've been thinking about contraception. I present to you what
I believe might just be the most important spirit magic spell of all...

BODY SENSE (I point, touch, temporal)

Body sense heightens the targets awareness of his or her body. With mimimum
practice and training, it can be used to diagnose simple illnesses such as
food poisoning, detect the onset of fever before it would otherwise be
detected, AND ALLOW A WOMEN TO KNOW WHETHER SHE WILL OVULATE WITHIN THE 
NEXT TWENTY FOUR HOURS.

I leave it to you to think through the profound implications of this spell.
It's so useful, I'd imagine most Earth/Fertility/Harmony/Man cults would
make it available. Certainly more useful than dullblade!

And if the spells gives a positive result, a women (or caring partner) might
consider...

DELAY OVULATION (3 points, touch, ceremony)

As the name suggests, this spell delays the chance of pregnancy for
24 hours, until AFTER that special ceremony or feast.

Easily available contraception transformed western society in the nineteen
sixties... leading to new definitions of male and female, altered work and
family patterns, a new social consciousness (including certain strands of
feminism) anda profound liberation of the human spirit. 
What would it meanin Glorantha?

ONE MORE LIGHT BULB JOKE...

How many RuneQuesters does it take to change a light bulb?

A: It doesn't matter, Greg will change it later anyway....


PAUL REILLY'S OFFER OF MORE ON THE OTHER SIDE

Shamanic presence on the Other Side? Yes please Paul.

KEEPING THE CONVERSATION FLOWING

I like to imagine Digest discussions as occurring late-night in some 
boisterous Gloranthan pub - for me it conveys the right tone to the healthy 
disagreements and constructive arguments that are our flatbread and cheese. 
It's a healthy antidote to the lack of emphasis and potential for 
misunderstanding that is the peril of electronic conversation. So to regular
'drinking' companions - if you ever make it to Far Point, ask for me at
the Weary Duck Inn by the abbatoirs at Ironspike. I have a jar of Powzie
kept special just for such occasions (if it doesn't melt the jar first...)

EXCHANGES WITH ALEX

** - a failing which led to the Eight New Manifestations.

* Who they?

Strange changes to the metaphysical geography of the hero plane. See the 
history article in World of Glorantha.

** > SOCIETIES need tricksters, whether it' s Eurmal or Prometheus or 
** > Coyote or Lenny Bruce or Johnny Rotten.

* I don't think Prometheus was a Trickster figure; certainly not _all_
* firebringer archetypes need be. I have my doubts about Lenny Bruce, too.

Joseph Campbell states that fire-theft is *often* associated with trickster 
figures. But given that fire-theft is part of a category of CULTURE HERO 
themes, you're right in saying not all fire-thieves are tricksters. Fire-theft
 is a hero quest after all. Having said that, let me quote the fire-bringer 
aspect of Trickster from the chaosium cult writeup. I included Lenny as an 
example of someone who utilised 'comedy' for sustained social criticism: take 
it or leave it!

Chaosium Trickster Write-Up:

"THE FIREBRINGER: many people agree that Trickster, in one form or another, 
stole fire from the darkness. Among the Pentans he was Raven, in Pamaltela he 
was Hare, and for the Theyalans he was a Lightbringer. "

** Trickster is certainly a murderer.

*   ;-)  We were debating whether _Eurmal_ is a Murderer, not
* whether _some_ Trickster aspect is, which is somewhat evident from
* GoG.  (Though my vote was "yes", anyway.)

Ouch! :-[. Sorry. Our difference is that I regard Eurmal, like Bolongo, as a 
definite 'mask', and the Trickster as a unitary universal manifestation 
despite local variations. Yes, I know you can argue that for all the gods, 
but the Chaosium cult write-up gives Trickster special emphasis in this regard.
To whit:

"Trickster has been born many times. No one knows how many. Most people say 
it has been too many. Trickster goes by many names and many shapes. He is a 
liar, a shapeshifter, a joker, a murderer, an innocent victim, a ravenous 
glutton, usually insatiably selfish but occasionally touchingly generous. He 
is a paradox and a mystery, or else too shallow to be real. His life and 
stories are jumbled, though the God Learners discerned or imposed an order 
upon them. 

At first Trickster was mischievious, but harmless. He pulled pranks, such as 
letting a tangle of boggles loose at Yelm's feast, but there was no harm in 
him. Since Death had not yet come even the worst devastation was only a 
temporary annoyance to the gods and First People, who reformed themselves and 
continued their lives. The growing confusion of the Gods Wars made Trickster's
impact more widespread. His jokes changed on the world, and many fearful gods 
blamed their problems upon him. He became the scapegoat for the problems of 
the world, and from that time everyone began to hate, fear, and despise him. 

One time Vadrus chopped him up and fed him to chickens, hoping that he would 
be reborn as a harmless bird. Trickster became disgusted with the hypocrisy 
of the world and vowed that it deserved to be destroyed. He became Eurmal the 
Destroyer, and set upon a deliberate path to assist the demise of the 
universe. His most critical actions were to facilitate the discovery, use, 
and continued reuse of Death. 

Despite his former success at destruction, or maybe because of it, Trickster 
sought to halt the process. The Theyalans say Orlanth forced him to do this. 
In company with other friends of the storm god, Trickster trekked through the 
Underworld and succeeded in the famous Lightbringer's Quest. 

Since the Dawn the Trickster has achieved no great success. Everyone 
remembers his inconsistancy, his infidelity, and his gross social habits. 
Even his friends only grudgingly acknowledge his actions to save the world. 
He is given enough worship to maintain his many shrines. 

The second age saw the realization of a great dream. Hofhadalos the Nonwise, 
a God Learner, privately financed the construction of The Temple of United 
Eurmal. This was a collection of all known Trickster shrine types, so 
trickster priests could obtain all Trickster rune spells at one place. 
The experiment worked, though no new spells came to light from the massed 
worship of thousands of initiates. But it was judged a failure by 
Hofhadalos's peers, because of the overwhelming influence of the disorderly 
god and his minions, each of whom performed one or two catastrophic actions 
for their favorite city, movement, or friend before being caught and 
condemned by local authorities. Hofhadalos himself was trapped into an 
inescapable feast, where all other guests were boggles and madmen. 
He is still there. 

Without his support the temple went bankrupt and was condemned to be razed. 
However, the land of Slontos sank beneath the sea before the demolition. 
Some tricksters claim that their cult did it. Since the defending tricksters 
also went beneath the waves, many people doubt their claim, or counterclaim 
that they got their own justice. ...

Trickster went everyplace and changed everything in the world from what it 
was in the Old Days to what it is now. He appears in many stories, often in 
disguise and not recognized as the instigator of some change. But he is 
always there -- things cannot change without him. The Trickster is a 
universal archetype. So long as people remember and enjoy tales about him, 
some people will wish to emulate him. In some societies, tricksters fulfill 
important social or religious roles. Trickster worshipers are very 
self-centered, and all their likes and dislikes are on a purely personal 
basis. They are frequently accused of being short-sighted, willing to give up 
future joy for immediate gratification. "

SANDY'S DORADDI LINEAGES

Sandy, your  description of Doraddi lineages seem a lot of fun, and I'd like 
a little more information to see if I can get a simulation going. Part of the
difference in our interpretations seems to have occurred because some of your
current thinking is different to the Pamaltela book. e.g....

Culture: Doraddi. All natives of Jolar belong to their lineage. 
Each person traces his or her lineage through the female line....
Chaosium Pamaltela Book: Jolar (1993) as reprinted in Tales #11.

While Sandy said:
> They're NOT matrilineal, but are based on both parents'  
>Lineages, though the mother's is sometimes weighted more heavily.

And to refresh our memory...
  
>Each combination of two lineages has one result that comes from it,  
>often modified by the exact sex of the parents and location born  
>into. For instance, if your Dad was Bluewood, and Mom was Puffberry,  
>you are also Puffberry. But if your Dad is Puffberry, and your Mom  
>Bluewood, you  must be Sweetgrass instead. This can Sometimes also be  
>affected by other relatives. If your Dad is Puffberry, and your Mom  
>Bluewood, normally you'd be Sweetgrass, but if your maternal  
>grandfather is Strawseed, then you must be Strawseed, too. 

>Hence, the Lineages must be Ranked, to determine which order  
>they take effect in. For instance, if your maternal grandfather is  
>Strawseed, you are always supposed to be Strawseed. Except that if  
>your Mom was Greenberry, then you are always supposed to be  
>Greenberry. But if you are born at Marbush Oasis, you are supposed to  
>be Marbush. So the oasis wise men long ago agreed that Marbush takes  
>precedence over Strawseed which takes precedence over Greenberry in  
>this case. When a new case of Lineage intermingling comes up, the  
>oasis folk are supposed to determine the result. 

>The Doraddi don't assign outsiders into lineages. This means  
>that most outsiders are able to marry any Lineage (most Lineages are  
>marriage restrictions, not enforcements), which  makes them popular  
>among unpopular Lineages. However, the children of an outsider and a  
>Doraddi are assigned specific lineages. 

What you are suggesting seems to be a cognitive (unilateral) descent group 
with matralineal bias, and negative marriage rules according to a lineage or 
section system. Sectional systems are fairly common in SE Asia and
ahem, :-), Australia, but they usually need to operate ON TOP OF an existing
patralineal or matralineal system. Because of this, I believe my article, the
Pamalt Book and your suggestions are all ultimately compatible. (Not that I'm
too worried, even among the Doraddi I believe there are HUNDREDS of different
kinship systems. What I'm interested in is how your system determines power,
politics and identity, what the rules are for determining lineage identity,
and how a gm might use the system in play.

I need more info! For instance, in your system, a child may be of a 
different lineage from both parents. In such a case, how is family and lineage
identity forged? Is inheritence matralineal? Who raises the children? Is there
brideservice or dowry? Is post marriage residence matrilocal or patrilocal?
What are the other systems of social organisation besides lineages - e.g. 
totems, age-groups, etc What are the laws of ownership and inheritance?
What are the closest kinship relations - guidefather, cousin, sister etc.
Is marriage - monogamous? is it exclusive? How does divorce work? Who is 
responsible for children? Are their marriage age differentials? Joking or 
avoidance relationships? And what determines seniority - kinship or 
lineage relationships?

Could you supply a table to show how lineages are determined for a single
tribe - the sort of thing we might provide a gm? Could you detail the
highlights of a lineage domestic cycle - from birth to marriage to death?

PROMISES PROMISES

Henk, what's happened to my Digest posting on the Alda-Chur fertility 
festival? Have you been busy, or is my mail server mucking me around?

I'm drawing together an article on the Shamanic Consciousness model of 
Gloranthan reality, and will post soon.

Stay tuned folks...

John
_________________________________________________________

John P. Hughes                            "When a Lhankor Mhy
Department of Archaeology & Anthropology   approaches, the gods
Australian National University             depart." 
john.hughes@anu.edu.au                         Praxian Saying*

_________________________________________________________

* actually its Haiatian, and about anthropologists, but what the hell...

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From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Scenarios
Message-ID: <940601082849_100270.337_BHL31-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 1 Jun 94 08:28:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4292

________________
Graeme Lindsell:

> I want "good guy" Malkionists, ie some group that don't harshly oppress
> the lower classes and strangers. Are the Carmanians the people I'm
> looking for?

Nope. Way too oppressive. The lower classes are oppressed serfs, who don't 
speak the same language or worship the same gods as their overlords.

> The Lunars are inventive and progressive people, they could have
> developed [crucifixion] all by themselves.

And reading. And baths. But as I know previous cultures in the same region 
had all these accomplishments, it seems more reasonable to backdate them.

> I've never seen any reference to Hrestol being executed, much less how
> he died - can you point me to one?

Well, looks like my theory's the only one in town, and seems to plug a hole 
in the mythos. As I said, there's no supporting evidence for *any* part of 
the hypothesis. Take it or leave it.

_____________
Devin Cutler:

D> I do not gainsay Nick's gaming contributions. I thought his scenario
D> in TOTRM 11 (I hope I got the issue # right) was great!

> Not mine, alas. But thanks, anyway! 

D> Well Nick, I'm at work, and I KNOW that you wrote a scenario I really
D> liked and that it was Sea/God Learner oriented, so maybe change TOTRM
D> to #10 and I stand corrected.

*Still* not mine, alas. But thanks again, anyway! 

_____________
David Dunham:

> All we know is that Harmast was in the Berenneth tribe. From what do you
> extrapolate his alynx-hood?

From Greg, hence "probably".

_____
Alex:

>> ... an all-Yelmalion party making up a half-file of Sun Dome militia.

> Good gravy.  How did you all fit round the same table?

Eight players plus me? I've had worse...

> Or was this a freeform ...

"Gaumata's Vision" a freeform? Well, if you have to have munchkins along to 
a Con, I can think of worse things to do to them, but making them play the 
Ogre Kids wouldn't be a bad start...

> ... or some Herisarchary such as Multiple Characters Per Player?

Retro me Satanus! Fie, oh fie! Why, the very notion!

====
Nick
====

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From: akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes)
Subject: Illumination
Message-ID: <199406010845.BAA04140@netcom.com>
Date: 31 May 94 18:45:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4293


>Anyone else have any ideas on what a character loses in becoming
>Illuminated?
>
>Gary James

You have nothing to lose but your fear and hatred.

-steve