From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 02 Jun 1994, part 2 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172) Subject: misc myths, etc Message-ID: <01HD0RWAPK12Q81DHF@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU> Date: 1 Jun 94 03:17:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4294 Well after two full weeks off in the wastelands of the U.S., I find that I'm way behind in my RQ dailies, but will try to catch up as quickly as possible. Incidentally, I find that much of Arizona, in particular, makes great staging for Prax and the Zola Fel valley. Too bad I'm not running a campaign there. After hiking up enough canyon sides and mountain ridges in temperatures from the 80s to over 100 degrees, I can't picture anyone wanting to wear anything resembling metal armor. And I think anyone would think twice about the source of their water supplies as well. So I pick up two weeks back. Apologies if some of these threads have already been laid to rest. - Matt Thale (x-rq-id 4004) asks about the relation of Mastakos and Lokarnos. Though both possess the movement rune, I do see them as distinct. In Theyalan culture I think they represent the attempt to describe two particular planets following the Sun Path. Mastakos (as described in ES) takes eight hours to cross the sky and then starts again without going to hell. The Orlanthi claim this as their god of movement who can teleport where he wants to go (takes Orlanth to hell and then goes to pick him up at the other end). The other, Wagon or Lokarnos takes 98 days to cross the sky and then 98 more to journey through hell. (ES claims the sky gods say this is Lokarnos and he appears in GRoY as the Week God because it takes 7 pre-SunStop days to cross the sky.) Surely, the Orlanth community also sees this as the lumbering wagon of those solar traders who deign to descend to Dragon Pass. I don't think these figures are universally recognized, though. In my Imtherian mythos, these are two followers of Lightfore (called Lagavar in Imther) who partially failed in their quests to follow their leader. "Mastakos" was either rejected at the gates of dusk, which Lagavar successfully passed OR is actually 2 planets which travel perfectly opposite each other at all times (when one rises the other sets). "Lokarnos" was crippled in hell and must lumber along, aided by either a staff or carried on a wagon. - Martin Crim (x-rq-id 4013) asked me to mention Khelmal, the Imtherian version of Yelmalio. Basically, Khelmal is the societal founder of the Imtherian lands with strong similarities to Yelmalio, but not Yelmalio (just as Elmal is not Yelmalio). Yelmalions travelling to Imther would be accepted at Khelmal's temples, but would find some of the mythos and the roles of the god significantly different. They would have to undergo some form of initiation to realign themselves fully with Khelmal. In rough outline, Khelmal is the son of Yelem, the sun god. His father gives him rule over the Imtherian lands, as he gives other sons rule over other parts of the world. Genert (or Gerendetho) offers his daughter, Nealda, to Khelmal to once again unite light and earth. But the evil trickster, Orlantio, spies Nealda and wants her for himself. Orlantio manages to get Khelmal's squire, Yurmalio, to open up a doorway and promptly steals Nealda away. Khelmal is outraged at the kidnapping of his betrothed and demands her return. Orlantio of course refuses. Khelmal makes three more demands and is refused each time. So Khelmal calls upon his kin for aid and they march off to fight Orlantio and his kin. The forces converge at the Hill of Gold. (The story of this fight was presented at RQ Con and, hopefully, is in whatever collection David Cheng is pulling together so I won't repeat it all here.) Basically, Khelmal had better strategy and drove off several of Orlantio's allies. Orlantio, though, used treachery again and got Yurmalio to betray his lord. Orlantio nearly wins, but finally Khelmal confronts him directly. And though Khelmal has lost his favorite weapons, he uses his spear of hope to daunt Orlantio, so much so that Orlantio stops his fight and leaves. (Not that it matters to Orlantio since he has already traded Nealda away to his dreadful brother, Orak the Hell Wind.) Now Khelmal is confronted by Orak and Valind descending from the north. Khelmal's weakened force has little chance to win this battle, so Khelmal sacrifices his own fire powers, releasing it upon his foes. Orak is scorched and burned and driven underground. Valind is delayed, but keeps up his advance. The sacrifice is enough to allow Khelmal and some of his allies to flee into the Imtherian hills. There Khelmal undertakes five tasks to rally mankind against the darkness and chaos by binding them into new ways of life. Khelmal worshippers do not know Monrogh, Togtuvei, or Kuschile at all. They do know Asron Cloudcutter (a hero who gained the spell Cloud Clear for the cult by heroquesting to the Hill of Gold and obtaining the Horn of Retreat from the chariot of Orlantio) and Heliacal the Light Protector (who provides Shield of Light instead of the Shield spell, not known to Khelmal worshippers). The cult has Light Servants and Priests, but no Light Sons. There are different gifts and geases which reflect the different choices made by Khelmal from those made by Yelmalio. That's a rough outline of aspects of the cult of Khelmal. He is the key deity of Imther and represents the struggle to hold the world together. While others went off on journeys to rescue the sun (NOT led by Orlantio the Trickster), it was Khelmal who kept the pieces together and allowed men to live and survive. - Assorted discussions on the Trinity My feeling is that a son, father, spirit representation of the Invisible God is not correct. The number 3 is important to the followers of Malkion, but not in that way. I think one thing to keep in mind is that to some extent the development of the 3-in-1 Christianity was a mythical inversion of the earlier pagan 3-in-1 goddess, used particularly by early Christians to convert the pagans. I can certainly see the Malkionis attempting to find ways to convert the followers of the Serpent Kings or Orlanth (creating saints, aiding Seshna, etc.), but a trinity of aspects does not seem important mythologically. Now if the Malkionis try to convert the Bloody Tusk ... ;-) - Alex (x-rq-id 4018) asking about the realities of the heroplane. My view is that it does contain different realities and that contradictory myths can and do exist. Sometimes the myths and realities are brought together, perhaps after a particular magico-mythical conquest (Lightbringers come to Peloria, Praxians invade Storm Hills, Malkionis come to Heortland, etc.). Then new cults, new subcults, new tellings of the mythical stories are crafted, often subtly. At other times, the myths split apart, again yielding variations in theme. In Imther, the Dara Happan expansion under Shargash/Antirius founded a "Sun Dome" temple. A new warrior class developed under the umbrella of the Khelmal cult. This class existed for much of six centuries until destroyed in the Dragonkill War. Then, older versions of the Khelmal cult were reasserted and the warrior as champion of the sun was abandoned in favor of an older savior of mankind. Many variations can and do exist. Orlanth could be slain (in Imther, the trickster Orlantio is hung, but later saved). Yelm might not die, but go instead on the "Lightbringer" quest to save the world (perhaps this is a view from Teshnos where fire powers do rule?). - Alex (x-rq-id 4021) on lo-metal. Lo-metal in one form (as sa-metal) is green, not red, and would be appropriate for a metal of Lorion or that worn by Gnydron. --Harald --------------------- From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) Subject: Aeolian Church Message-ID: <9406011432.AA27596@sonata.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 1 Jun 94 04:32:53 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4295 Hello, can anyone point me to information on the Aeolian Church that I can actually get my hands onto? (This means no out of print or otherwise inaccessible pseudo-sources.) My party may be heading out Wilmskirk way and I thought it would be fun to have them have to deal with Aeolians. --------------------- From: carlsonp@wdni.com (Carlson, Pam) Subject: RE:Dogs, Horses Message-ID: <2DEC97CB@emssmtp.msm.weyer.com> Date: 31 May 94 21:44:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4296 !. Thank you all for your answers to my questions, particularly the one on Orlanthi justice. Now I'm already for my next Dorastor session. As for methods of execution (oh, what a lovely subject:-( ): I would think that when Yelmites want to execute someone terribly unpopular they wouldn't give the victom the privilege of fire - they'd bury the sucker alive. 2. I see my dog comment brought out all the self-confessed Cat People! Martin: > Re: Doggies > Quite agree. Why don't you write some of these up? >Something along the lines of: >Sartarite Sheepdog: SIZ 4-5; white or gray; built for long- >distance running. Loyal, hard-working, easy to train, and very >demanding in time and energy to keep. Precisely! Martin, are you sure you're a cat person? You sound like the owner of a border collie:-) >The average Sartarite shepherd keeps 3 dogs, and feeds them on ... Haggis and stout, what else? Seriously, I'd be happy to design some dog types, with applicable skills and maybe some notes on keeping a dog while adventuring. 3. Someone else (the intrepid pony-trekker) understandably lamented the lack of horse details. We noticed this long ago, and already have several horse types created, as well as (hang onto your seats) a HORSE COLOR CHART! ( How can a well-adjusted gamer adventure for years from the back of a trusty equine, without even knowing what color he/she/it is?) We have come up with some quirky behaviors for horses over the years - and I think "likes to play in water" was one of them. There is also a GURPS supplement on horses with lots of good information. Would any other folks be interested in horse & dog detail for RQ? Are there any aspects you would particularly like to see addressed? 4. Loved the Yinkin the Shepherd story. And - Yinkin was right about keeping the rats from the granaries and the birds from the fields: brother dog could do that, too! Pam <^==@ /\ /\ carlsonp@wdni.com --------------------- From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake) Subject: Re:Men and a half Message-ID: <199406011634.AAA20524@melomys.cs.uwa.oz.au> Date: 1 Jun 94 16:36:23 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4297 Sandy said > If it's mommy and daddy were men-and-a-half, he'll be one, >too. If it's a half-breed, then it'll be a mixed-breed. missing the obvious - if its a half breed, it will be a man-and-a-quarter :-) Cheers Dave Cake --------------------- From: DevinC@aol.com Subject: Some Riddles and a Story Message-ID: <9406011255.tn700716@aol.com> Date: 1 Jun 94 16:55:56 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4298 Devin Cutler here: I have designed some riddles for a heroquest for my campaign (it seems that most HQ's published involve the Trickster and riddling, so I thought I'd include some as well, especially since it is a Lightbringer-type HQ. In any case, it is difficult for me to know how hard or easy the riddles are..........so I would appreciate guesses from the net and comments on ease or difficultness (sp): Riddle 1: What was found by laughter, adopted by truth, used by trees, taken by ambush, and cleansed by the winds? Riddle 2: Children of Time and of Death Always busy with every breath the world their charge land above heel watching each spark and wheel condemned to live eternal life unless cut short by untimely strife with wonders taken by human hands they've secrets left to fix the land Riddle 3: One of five can find a treasure but never bring it back. Two of five can loose the arrow that starts the attack. Three of five can steal a purse and leave no track. Four of five can pledge a vow so loyalty does not lack. But five of five can do anything once they have the knack. Riddle 4: What is square but rolls round and when done spots abound? Riddle 5: Weaver and assassin with the sight og four men lurks in darkness always waiting for some play in its pen knows its place and knows its fate and goes out hunting with its eight But when Heler falls and morning hies majestic artistry its deadly disguise Riddle 6: This Lord has fallen from his haughty throne and dead though he be you'll fine neither skull nor bone for mercy was given for his cowardly ways and now he lives on at least for some days but the Lord is afraid as a timid lark and he runs for his shelter with the approach of the dark but we must give him some credit where credit is due were the Lord not craven but dead then of us there'd be few. Riddle 7: Two cows and some trees with a squid running through them lie on a bench and impart wisdom to the world. My impression is that #7 is very tough, #2 and #5 are very easy. #6 is probably easy also, but I am including it as an insult from the Trickster to one of the PC's. I'll post answers in a few days-) I also have a few Nysalor Riddles I thought I'd share. The commentary is missing, and I'll probably write that up one day, but I'd welcome a sample of what such commentary might look like from the net: 1) What is it that can be climbed but not jumped in one instance, but jumped and not climbed in another? Answer: A chasm, the first of which is too wide to jump but shallow, and the second of which is too steep to climb but narrow. Skill Riddled : Climb and Jump 2) What is it that you can stand on by night but lie in by day? Answer: A block of ice Skill Riddled: World Lore 3) Name the surest way to follow someone's tracks? Answer: keep them in sight Skill Riddled: Tracking 4) Which is a better way to slay a friend, with a thrust or a slice? Answer: Neither, one should not attack a friend Skill Riddled: One handed sword Regards, Devin Cutler devinc@aol.com