From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 03 Jun 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Gata
Message-ID:
Date: 2 Jun 94 07:24:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4311
Greg Fried in X-RQ-ID: 4249
> Question is, what kind of benefits would she give? Obviously, some elemental
> powers over Earth. But what else? I had thought the abiltity to "birth"
> other Earth goddesses -- by which I mean that a Gata priestess might be able
> to induct worshipers into Earth cults, and, indeed, to consacrate temples to
> such deities. In other words, a Gata priestess would be a kind of shaman to
> Earth gods. Thoughts? Please help -- this will have direct influence on my
> campaign!
Somebody mentioned a shaman of Umath on the Daily, I think a bit prior
to KoS and the info about the Kolating shamans in there.
I am rather in favour to access the shamanic powers of the earth via
Earth Witch, and make the primal elements a personal and heroic affair,
similar to the Powers.
I lack evidence for this except through King Sartar, who was said to
have "mastered the Change (Mobility) Rune". Rather than to access the
actual entity, these individuals directly access the powers the Celestial
Court member embodied than directly worship it.
Of course I contradict myself with this. Illumination?
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: fletcher@u.washington.edu (Brent Krupp)
Subject: Duck castrati...
Message-ID:
Date: 1 Jun 94 17:57:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4312
Sandy says:
Now, this makes ME think of something -- in one of my old
campaigns, a human PC insulted a duck PC by calling him a "capon".
'Twas a nice double insult, as it not only belittled his manhood, but
also subtly implied that he was tastier to eat than the norm. (Ducks
HATE jokes about eating.)
Now, I know that "capon" isn't strictly accurate for a duck,
or is it? Is there a name for a castrated duck? Does anyone do this?
If a castrated turkey is also called a capon (is it?), perhaps the
duck should be too? Thoughts? Language scholars? Anyone?
------
Um, I hate to bring this up, being a big duck fan and all, but my limited
memory of basic zoology includes the idea that birds (female AND male)
have internal genitalia... so I would think castrating a duck would be a
pretty darn hard thing to do. As if you'd want to. But this opens up a
whole 'nother can of worms about ducks...
OTOH, since durulz are a human-(normal) duck hybrid of sorts, maybe the
male duck genitalia is more, um, external...
So, Sandy, can you put that zoo degree to some use and save me here?
Brent Krupp (fletcher@u.washington.edu)
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: misc to Sandy
Message-ID:
Date: 2 Jun 94 08:23:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4313
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 4274
replyng to me:
>>Germany may have smaller distances [than the USA], but we actually
>>meet only if some of us chance to visit another's home city, or at
>>the annual convention. The US with its great, "everyone's there"
>>conventions would be as good a breeding ground for such a society as
>>Germany where next to noone really leaves his city of birth.
> You don't understand. Because our country is so enormous, and
> comparatively thinly-peopled, a given city tends to have fewer actual
> RuneQuesters available, except for the largest metropolitan areas.
> Because of this, there's usually not enough locals playing RQ in an
> area to actually form a group, though I agree it would be wonderful
> if they would.
I had the impression that most active roleplaying in the US took place
at colleges or universities and around these. This would be centres of
say 5000 potential roleplayers, so that theer could be enough people
around to get a RuneQuest group or two together, depending on
evangelisation among the roleplayers and those who might become such.
>>Nor do we profit much from being a "youth organization".
> Really? When I was in Germany last November, I was told that
> the government actually provided funds for the gaming conventions and
> local RPG groups there.
Ah, the Golden Age... No, funds have been shortened here, and activities
keeping the youths occupied and off the street aren't worth financial aid
any more. Typical blindness of politicians with an empty purse...
>>the geology minor in me still wants to know how long the ice age
>>held Glorantha in sway before the Dawning.
> If I answer, I'll get picked on by all the "there is no time
> in Godtime" fanatics. ;)
So what?
> I'm sticking to my theory that the Land Goddesses and Grain
> Goddesses are One. This doesn't mean that there aren't farming
> goddesses associated with a particular grain. For instance, Krala is
> the Land Goddess of Kralorela, and her special grain is Rice. Yet
> there is also a Rice Mother. For that matter, I can imagine someone
> living in Peloria and wanting to worship Esrola because she is the
> Barley goddess. Even though she's not native to my homeland.
So Esrolia still is the land of oatsmeal? Didn't Peloria grow wheat
before Hon-eel discovered maize for the empire, just 140 years ago?
While I'm at grains, which areas grow summer grain, and which winter
grain, which do both? Are there places in Glorantha where one can grow
two crops a year?
>>Glorantha is remarkably earth-like in its fauna, if you leave out
>>chaos, legendary beasties from known earth mythologies (Griffins,
>>Hippogriffs, etc), gigantism, and anachronisms (dinosaurs,
>>titanotheres). The only unique animal I can think of out of my head
>>is the Rubble Runner
> Don't Ducks, Wind Children, Dragonewts, Maidstone Archers,
> Jolanti, Jelmre, and so forth get to count? Or do only unintelligent
> animals?
Those were what I was thinking of. I mean a world that spawned so many
different intelligent life should have a few unique unintelligent beasts.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: x820660@fcusqnt.fcu.edu.tw (Bill Robertson)
Subject: This that and the other
Message-ID: <9406020841.AA26143@fcusqnt.fcu.edu.tw>
Date: 3 Jun 94 00:41:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4314
Martin...
>Re: closed societies
> As Joerg points out, China and Japan were officially closed
>to outsiders. Another closed society was the Muslim culture of
Yes, they were officially closed, but you're bordering on innacuracy here.
They weren't always closed like this. China was closed during the Qing
(Ching) dynasty, and Japan was closed during the Tokogawa period.
Interestingly enough, the Qing rulers themselves were not Chinese.
So, what does this have to do with Glorantha... Um... Sorry! Well,
maybe I could say that I was trying to say be careful when considering
Gloranthan societes, but I'm to honest. I was just... just... quibbling!
"Arrrggghhhhh! Shoot me now! Shoot me now!" quoth the Black Duck,
"Nevermore."
Paul Reilly...
> DO people want Harangvat info?
Sure we do! Let me start with the first question. Who or What are
they or is it? ;)
Graeme Lindsell...
> I don't like the idea from the Heroes of the King prospectus posted
>here recenly, that magic cannot be done secretly. Takes too much of the
>fun out of it IMO. I'd like to think that Mindspeechs are flying thick
>and fast in any Gloranthan meeting.
I agree whole heartedly. I like the idea that a skilled sorcercer
using his sleight skill can cast a spell while talking to you. I
think it makes for better role playing opportunities. Brings more
flavor and danger into interaction with a sorcerer.
Here's the way I envision it working. While engaged in conversation,
the sorcerer would begin casting his spell normally. If you encourage
note passing in your game (I do) (s)he should inform you in this manner.
This keeps the other players on edge because their characters (probably)
wouldn't know it either. Then, include sleight into the skill mix
of sorcery manipulation skills. i.e. You have to roll lower than your
lowest skill.
My ideas are still incomplete. How can the targets notice? Scan?
Seems reasonable to use the normal skill v.s. skill rules. Also,
Sorcery requires a verbal component (or DOES it?) If so, do you
need to work your fast-talk skill into it? Additionally, what does
this do to casting time? I suspect it would lengthen it. Maybe
it would double casting time, but I'm not sure how reasonable this is.
Is it too much of a penalty to make it worthwhile?
Ideas, comments, and suggestions would be appreciated.
Bernt Hillesland...
>PILGRIMAGES: What place do they have in the religions of Glorantha?
>Obviously the Animal Nomads have their Praxian pilgrimages to the Paps,
As I recall to become a tribal cheiftan in Prax, the poor sap must go
the the fens surrounding The Block and kill a chaos beast. I like the
idea that to become a Storm Khan you must do the same thing (in some
regions at least). For Yelmalio, I think a pilgrimage to the Hill of
Gold might be appropriate.
Is the difference between pilgrimage and Heroquest physical and
metaphysical?
Gary Newton ...
Thanks for the information about Japanese. Now I'd like to toss in
my two cents about how to address your family members in Chinese.
The proper way to address your family members is by their "title",
not by name. "Titles" are very numerous. There's not just a "title"
for your sister. There's one for your older and younger sister.
There's not just a word for uncle. There are words for your fathers
older brothers and words for your father's younger brothers.
etc. etc. etc. I'm an American, and it confuses me like you wouldn't
believe. I don't really understand why, but I can say that it has to
do with the importance of family relationships in Chinese society.
Of course, nothing is as simple as it seems. My girlfriend's sister
calls her by her name.
This makes me wonder about the importance of the clan in Orlanthi society.
I don't think the Orlanthi have this sort of mode of address because
of their, "freedom lovin' nature." I wonder what cultures in Glorantha
might address their family members like this? Any suggestions?
>OK, last bit: RQ here in Japan seems really popular. Apart from the AH
>ranslations, there's a home-grown thingie called "RuneQuest 90s", which has
>some interesting interpolations... Let me know if you want to know more...
Yes! I'm very interested. If nobody else expresses interest publicly,
then contact me through e-mail.
Neither Scotland nor Sartar, but Taiwan.
Joerg Baumgartner... (regarding major gods/goddesses)
>> (1) Why Lodril?
>if you dare a head-count of worshippers, including associate, pantheon
>
>> (2) Where's Uleria?
>I didn't think of her. Maybe she is too subtle to elbow her way to
Well, maybe Uleria just has millions of lay members.
Nick Brooke...
>Dara Happans impale criminals, I've heard (and written). I don't know about
>like reasonable folk, maybe they did nothing worse than the Greeks: poison
>(anyone for Hemlock?), or casting into deep ravines followed by stoning...
I'd imagine that any sort of death sentence would have be quick. Hate to
see those thugs using DI to get out of their fate. Although it COULD
be a great plot device.
Peter J. Whitelaw...
>Has anyone every wrankled at the neat little packages that Strike Ranks are
>grouped into? By this I mean Melee rounds. In my group we tend to make/bend
>Has anyone tried this?
This topic was discussed last summer. Personally, I like the SR system
for its simplicity. I think when you're role-playing you need to balance
playability v.s. realisim. If you're game is too "playable", then you're
running Monty-Haul everybodies-got-everybody-else-special-Rune-magic-
through-abuse-of-the-spell-trading-rules type of game. If your game is
too "realistic" then it's too rules heavy or too literary. Have you ever
glanced at the Roll-Master rules.
But then I'd also like to say, "Suit yourself!" Play whatever type of
game you like!
>CRIMSON TEAR
>There you have it; Like it or loathe it.
I didn't loathe it. I didn't like it. I loved it! Great writeup too.
Especailly since you included a description of the ceremony spell. Thanks!
Now two questions. I've been in hiatus for awhile. What's the status
of RuneQuest IV? And, did I see a mention of an aol library? Is there,
and is it accessable?
Thanks all!
-Bill
---------------------
From: x820660@fcusqnt.fcu.edu.tw (Bill Robertson)
Subject: Regarding your recent posting on the digest
Message-ID: <9406020846.AA26631@fcusqnt.fcu.edu.tw>
Date: 3 Jun 94 00:46:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4315
I haven't received Volume 10 Issue 9 of the RuneQuest digest yet, and
I would like to.
Thank you
Bill Robertson
---------------------
From: x820660@fcusqnt.fcu.edu.tw (Bill Robertson)
Subject: soda
Message-ID: <9406020851.AA26941@fcusqnt.fcu.edu.tw>
Date: 3 Jun 94 00:51:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4316
What are the "numbers" to reach the soda via ftp?
If I type "ftp soda.berkeley.edu" I get an unknown host error message.
Thanks!
-Bill Robertson
---------------------
From: lindsell@rschp1.anu.edu.au (Graeme Lindsell)
Subject: Crucifixions, Nice Malkioni and Executions
Message-ID: <9406020856.AA00777@Sun.COM>
Date: 2 Jun 94 23:55:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4317
Nick Brooke writes:
>But as I know previous cultures in the same region
>had all these accomplishments, it seems more reasonable to backdate them.
I've never seen any reference to anyone except the Lunars crucifying,
but I'll bow to your superior sources.
> As I said, there's no supporting evidence for *any* part of
>the hypothesis. Take it or leave it.
I'll leave it, thanks. Even with the small amount of information
we know about the West, I believe we'd have heard that Hrestol was
crucified. It would be too central to be missed. In fact, are _any_ of
the Saints described as having been executed? Xemela is the only one who
died for others, and (though perhaps a Mary figure) she was later
rescued by Hrestol. I'm not sure passions and torment are part of
Malkionism, or at least they're not as big a part of it as they are of
Christianity.
Of course, if he was nailed to a large triangle, that might explain
some things...
Sandy writes in request to my plea of some decent Malkionists:
>First, I don't think you can find Good Guy Malkioni that Tap.
Pardon, I should have written "don't Tap".
> Second, I'm not sure why the Loskalmi are typified as raving
>fanatics. Just because the Rokari claim the Hrestoli are idealists
>doesn't mean the Hrestoli themselves can't be good guys.
Actually, it's the write-up of Fronela that's frightening, not what the
Rokari say. I wouldn't wish to be a neighbour of the Loskalmi, unless I
liked crusades. I'm sure that the Loskalmi are as internally wonderful
as they're portrayed: I don't like living near people who are sure they
know all the answers, and have a religion that demands a large army. I
especially don't like it when civil and religous advancement are tied
to military prowess, and all the leaders are ex-priests of the church.
>but there were still no doubt happy areas in which the peasants
>didn't feel as though their rulers were abominable tyrants.
I accept the possibility that such heavens may have existed. It doesn't
make the typical life of a medieval or Rokari peasant any more appealing
to me.
> Fourth, just because *some* Safelstrans are oppressive and
>bad doesn't mean they all are. There's a dozen or more states there,
>each with its own national system of doing things, and plenty of them
>can be good guys.
Yes, I can accept this.
I'm not asking for a Malkionist culture that's totally wonderful. I'd
prefer a society which the players could interact with if they came from
another, and doesn't produce fanatic PC's or a huge proportion of landless
peasants.
Paul Reilly writes:
>Of course the people you are really describing are the Jrusteli.
Well, certainly!
> Anywhere where the Malkioni DON'T have the political power they might
>be relatively OK, like the Janube city-states.
Yes, but they hardly qualify for Malkioni societies.
>Those lands
>were just considered 'empty' and I thought they were populated by people
>who wanted MORE freedom.
Yes, that's what the Genertela pack says. The original suggestion was
made as an alternative version of Salfester, to oppose the "inland Italy"
that's there now. Of course, all the stories about the freedom of the
Redlands might just be Lunar propaganda...
Me:
>Burial alive and defenestration
Sandy:
>Feed 'em to the sacred crocodiles.
Paul
>'cut their throats so their blood
>will feed the earth' is also popular. Crushed between stones is a good
>one as well.
Boris
>"Hangings too good for him! Burnings too good for him! He
> should be ripped into itsy-bitsy pieces and buried alive!".
Which lead to the ever popular "cut his throat, throw him out the
window into the pit of crocodiles and then fill it with dirt". Needs
a good choreographer.
--
Graeme Lindsell a.k.a lindsell@rschp1.anu.edu.au
Research School of Chemistry, Australian National University, Canberra.
"I was 17 miles from Greybridge before I was caught by the school leopard"
Ripping Yarns - Tomkinson's Schooldays.
---------------------
From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Riddle me Riddle
Message-ID: <940602105946_100270.337_BHL43-2@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 2 Jun 94 10:59:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4318
My guesses at Devin's riddles:
> 1: What was found by laughter...
Death?
> 2: Children of Time...
Mostali?
I'll have to pass on #s 3 and 4.
> 5: Weaver and assassin...
Spider and Web?
> 6: This Lord has fallen...
Yelm?
> 7: Two cows and some trees with a squid running through them lie on a
> bench and impart wisdom to the world.
That's easy: the RuneQuest Daily's regular contributors! (To protect the
innocent, I'll not name names...).
_______
Martin:
> I did read recently of a place with an exception for horses
Izzat Giraldus Cambrensis on the kings of Kenelcunill? (Coyly hinted at on
p.53 of Pagan Shore):
: There is in the northern and farther part of Ulster, namely in Kenel-
: cunill, a certain people which is accustomed to appoint its king with
: a rite altogether outlandish and abominable. When the whole people of
: that land has been gathered together in one place, a white mare is
: brought forward into the middle of the assembley. He who is to be
: inaugurated, not as a chief, but as a beast, not as a king, but as an
: outlaw, has bestial intercourse with her before all, professing himself
: to be a beast also. The mare is then killed immediately, cut up in
: pieces, and boiled in water. A bath is prepared for the man afterwards
: in the same water. He sits in the bath surrounded by all his people,
: and all, he and they, eat of the meat of the mare which is brought to
: them. He quaffs and drinks of the broth in which he is bathed, not in
: any cup, or using his hand, but just dipping his mouth into it round
: about him. When this unrighteous rite has been carried out, his kingship
: and dominion have been conferred.
"Slaine the King" showed a bowdlerised version of this.
The Catherine the Great story is a lie, my sister tells me. But the queen's
role in the Vedic horse sacrifice of ancient India appears to be true (cf.
Gore Vidal's "Creation" and sundry notes in the Penguin Classics selection
from the Rig Veda).
As an aside, while we were fighting in the Bush War, our cavalry commander,
Hetman Ignatieff of the Char-Un, swore by Char-Un the Butcher and Holy
Katharine, Mother of Horses. Frequently. He was an uncouth fellow, and his
successor Anatoliy was no better.
________________
Boris on Yinkin:
> Loved it, as I loved the Fox King story; please tell us more, please!
And I love you too, Boris! I have two other finished stories, but I'll be
telling one of them at Convulsion and haven't decided which, yet. One of
these days I'll make up my mind, and post the other one here. I enjoy
working on these converted folk-tales, as they're the stories that real
people tell round hearth-fires. Not heavy-duty mythology, but simple
world-defining stuff. (Plus, I can usually remember them when I've had too
much beer, as Joerg will testify).
___________
Neil wrote:
> In my eyes, it is the perfect opportunity for the Lunars to do some
> subtle conversion on an impressionable youth... Does anyone have any
> hints about a good way to get the character converted and have the
> player start realizing it only once it has happened.
Here's a very simple/subtle one. Have you read "1984"? In my Glorantha, the
Lunar language of "New Pelorian" was created with motives very similar to
those that led to Ingsoc's "Newspeak" (indeed, the New Pelorian for New
Pelorian is "Newspeak"). It's a language deliberately designed to contain
Lunar ideological messages at the most basic level. Thus it would not be
possible in New Pelorian bluntly to state: "Chaos is Evil". The structure
and vocabulary would not permit it. All statements come out qualified and
relative to one another; balanced clauses ("On the one hand ... on the
other") are natural to its structure; even word etymologies have a subtle
ideological content (all religious nouns are declined as feminine, all
military nouns as masculine; etc.).
Thus a character who learns to speak New Pelorian must gain some insights
into the Lunar way of viewing the world. This might be as basic as a +1%
Nysalor Illumination percentage, or a realisation of just why the Seven
Mothers cult has Rune Lords and Rune Priestesses. Learning the Lunar way of
looking at things is the *ideal* first step towards conversion. Why else
would the openly missionary Seven Mothers cult teach it at a discount?
Your player has walked right into their trap!
====
Nick
====