From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 06 Jun 1994, part 2 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly) Subject: Re: Dark Woman Message-ID: <9406042123.AA17834@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu> Date: 4 Jun 94 21:23:45 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4378 Paul Reilly here Boris writes: And finally, the subject that's on everybody's mind, Devin's riddles. The first seems easy enough for everybody (though Paul Reilly makes a cryptic comment about the First and Second Gifts of the Dark Woman; who is this, Subere, or Nakala? And what was her second gift?) Dark Woman = Subere First Gift = Death Second Gift = Black Eater. Note that when Arkat tried to use the Black Eater against "Gbaji" it seemed to fail. This sort of backfire was to be expected- went he quested to receive the Second Gift he must have been following the Trickster's path, not recommended. Subere is, IMO, one of those deities NOT dependent on mortal worship. She is at the very bottom of Hell - below her is Chaos. She has the power to stand against Chaos. Alex writes: > (Does Glorantha have eclipses?) Jugger probably can cause rare eclipses. Annilla is HIGHER than Yelm (after all she overcame him) and won't. There is a crescent shaped trak north of the Crater that should have Eclipses, think about it. There is probably a Temple of the Eclipse there. The track moves south in summer and north in winter. > What about burial alive? Let's not forget those rave-faves, castration, and >Putting Out of The Eyes, for "lesser" offences (or as a preamble to execution). And being tied in a sack with a cat, a dog, a snake, and a cock (I think?) and being thrown into a river. For parricides. >Vormainians: a variety of _efficient_ methods. We had a Vormanian, Tora, in our campaign as a 'guest star'. He was carrying a letter to the Red Emperor but was a bit lost. Tora was a _samurai_ who had a little companion who translated for him. Tora had learned the guy's language, the "Barbarian Tongue". He was very annoyed when he found out that barbarians had more than one language. Tora got annoyed easily and tended to lop off people's heads. One day a Eurmali was reaching out for his purse; Tora lopped off his hand in the blink of an eye. The Trickster held up his remaining hand and bleeding stump, regarded them, and cried "Now I'm assymmetrical!" Vormainians love symmetry... ------------- --------------------- From: eco0kkn@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann) Subject: Starting a new campaign Message-ID: <9406042140.AA12694@cabell.vcu.edu> Date: 4 Jun 94 21:40:59 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4379 Mike Dawson here, not Kirsten Niemann. Alistair Langsford asked about starting a new campaign, specifying that it would be for people who have not played RQ before. I assume they are gamers who are just new to the system, but that doesn't really matter for my suggestions. I would start off some militiamen in Queenscliff. That's what I did when I started up my game a few years ago. Most of my players were new to RQ, but I had a couple who hadn't gamed at all and one (Martin Crim) who was a Gloranthophiend. (As an aside, I limited Martin's impact on a bunch of new players by making him a foreign Sun Domer from Dragon Pass. His character was not like the folks of Sun County.) Sun Dome militiamen are several things that make them easy to run for beginning players (and beginning refs): 1) easily sterotyped Nick Brooke referred to them as "uptight spartans in the wild west" to paraphrase. 2) highly provincial They don't travel much or know much about the outside world.This reduces the amount of time you have to explain about the world. 3) xenophobic see above 4) unified in concept makes the players work hard to make themselves different 5) easy to order around by NPC bigwigs That's enough. So, I wanted to play some of the Sun County adventures (it was supposed to be a playtest run, but never got that far). I looked at the various scenarios in Sun County, and realized that none of them were right for beginnners. What to do? I came up with a pleasant little adventure called Gaumata's Vision. If I was in a sitution where I had to rely on the extant published material for my campaign, I think I would run things this way: A few of the scenario hooks in Sun County A visit to Garhound, probably not as contestants Gaumata's Vision, preferably with the "Wrong Village" scenario first River of Cradles scenarios, especially if you can find some mythinc way to make the PCs more important than RoC does. (This is what I am doing in my campaign.) The rest of Shadows on the Borderlands If they survive that far, send 'em off into Strangers in Prax. That should keep you busy one night a week for a couple of years. On another note, Codex #2 goes to press next week, come Wakboth or Uleria. I sprained my ankle this week, keeping me from getting it done. And I have already started laying out #3. Hopefully that will be out for Convulsion. Mike -- ------------ Gloranthophiles need to contact me at codexzine@aol.com for information about Codex Magazine. UK Gloranthophiles write to cphillips@blue.demon.co.uk "Inquiries into the nature and secrets of Glorantha" . ------------------------------------------------------/_\ --------------------- From: eco0kkn@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann) Subject: Kudos and other stuff Message-ID: <9406042212.AA14629@cabell.vcu.edu> Date: 4 Jun 94 22:12:01 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4380 Wow, catching up on Dailies is a full-day job. Figures the Digest would get hopping on a weekend where I am away for 4 days in a row. Mike Dawson here, not Kirsten Niemann. ----About David Dunham's Campaign write-up REally good, even though it was about...initiation. -----Paul Reilly and discussion of Western Philosophy I for one, do feel that this stuff belongs right here in the daily. Don't take it to email. Mike -- ------------ Gloranthophiles need to contact me at codexzine@aol.com for information about Codex Magazine. UK Gloranthophiles write to cphillips@blue.demon.co.uk "Inquiries into the nature and secrets of Glorantha" . ------------------------------------------------------/_\ --------------------- From: 100102.3001@CompuServe.COM (Peter J. Whitelaw) Subject: Wow Message-ID: <940604223855_100102.3001_BHJ44-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 4 Jun 94 22:38:55 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4381 I'd just like to thank Stephen Martin for his monumental Gloranthan index. It must have taken an age to prepare. But, > SOURCES: OFFICIAL >[...] >Lords of Terror III Que? All the best, Peter :-% --------------------- From: lindsell@rschp1.anu.edu.au (Graeme Lindsell) Subject: Some Replies, and a Malkionic theory Message-ID: <9406050457.AA09975@Sun.COM> Date: 5 Jun 94 19:56:03 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4382 Nick Brooke replying to Neil someone: >Neil wrote: >> In my eyes, it is the perfect opportunity for the Lunars to do some >> subtle conversion on an impressionable youth... Does anyone have any >> hints about a good way to get the character converted and have the >> player start realizing it only once it has happened. In our Prax campaign a Storm Bull PC decided to learn some New Pelorian. The GM slipped some illumination questions into the lessons: "Repeat after me: Where does the fire go when you put it out?" >Here's a very simple/subtle one. Have you read "1984"? In my Glorantha, the >Lunar language of "New Pelorian" was created with motives very similar to >those that led to Ingsoc's "Newspeak" (indeed, the New Pelorian for New One somewhat more positive level, Iain Banks' Marain, the language of the Culture, is similar. While I like this idea, are the Lunars that sophisticated? Even with the magic,they are Bronze age culture. And if they tried it, I doubt they would have been totally successful, as regional dialects and jargon appeared. David Dunham's Wind Run: I like this spell a lot! Alex Ferguson writes: >Female caste stricture: do what hubby/daddy/nearest upwind male authority >tells you to. Very likely. It's been pointed out to me (by John Hughes and Paul Reilly) that if there is a single female caste, then it's a class, not caste system. According to John, the definition of caste is an "endogenous (i.e. in-marrying) occupation based social structure". >Actually, I think the Hrestol maintain the one-female-caste situation. Another argument for this is the idea of a Hrestoli with a wife being promoted ahead of him. I doubt even Hrestoli Westerners would accept this. However, this doesn't necessarily mean the women are oppressed: not being part of the restrictive class system could be an advantage. > Also, Alex gives many forms of execution, a wonder to behold and a joy for >any wide ranging party. >our idea of post-Malkion, pre-Hrestol Malkioni >is fairly vague, and corresponds in no obvious way to any current sect. >(Unlike pre-Malkion and post-Hrestol.) I've an alternative theory concerning the "what happenned after Malkion" question. I found an interesting paragraph in CoT: "Western Genertela was the source of the humanists. The culture began on the land of Brithos, and was ancient even before Time began. It was so old that it had schisms within it even during the Dawn Age. For instance, the Old Malkioni religion was long forgotten, dead when the god was killed, and instead the Wizards' secrets gave spiritual mastery and fulillment for the people, but the dawning of year 2 established the New Malkioni religion - the spiritual support of the Hrestol knights." While this is over 10 years old and could be considered out of date, it does lead to another scenario: Malkion the Prophet was the one who saved the Kingdom of Logic, and then gave the Brithini their social classes and _taught them Solace_. During the Great Darkness Malkion died and the Brithini religion could no longer reach Solace, which had required the living presence of Malkion (in many ways similar to the Dragonewt cycle). By the Dawn almost all memory of Solace had gone from the Brithini, when Hrestol received his visit from the Prophet. This alternative scenario explains a great deal IMO: why the West seemed to be Brithini at the Dawn (Hrestol is referred to once as a Talar), why the Rokarian attempt to return to pre-Hrestol Malkionism is basically recreating the Brithini with Solace. It would also explain why Malkion is part of Brithini and Western culture, when the Brithini don't accept what seems to be Malkion's basic message, that of Solace. Those Brithini that accepted Hrestol's revelation (perhaps the majority in Western Genertela) have all died by now, leaving only those who rejected him. In this scenario, it's Hrestol's revelation that breaks caste strictures and causes aging, not Malkion's. It's even possible that Malkion said nothing about immortality (ageing may not have been a big problem that far back in Godtime). Malkion promised something better, true immortality in Solace. The immortality may be a result of Zzabur's work, trying to give the Brithini the nearest equivalent to Malkion's Solace which they could no longer reach. I think by the dawn Zzabur was the only person who would actually have known Malkion. -- Graeme Lindsell a.k.a lindsell@rschp1.anu.edu.au Research School of Chemistry, Australian National University, Canberra. "I was 17 miles from Greybridge before I was caught by the school leopard" Ripping Yarns - Tomkinson's Schooldays. --------------------- From: hmangold@muselab.ac.runet.edu Subject: Additions to the Index Message-ID: <9406051602.AA06945@muselab.ac.runet.edu> Date: 5 Jun 94 16:02:45 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4383 Salutations, all. I'm kind of an infrequent poter here, but I'm going to try to take a more active role, if possible. I've been playing/reading RQ for about 9 years now, and i must say that the discussion quality on here is of a very high caliber IMHO. I think that the gamer/scholar ratio is just about right. Anyway, just got the RQ Index. Wow! A *hell* of a lot of work went into this thing. My complements to Steven Martin. I think I found some stuff that he missed, however (I'd email him privately, but I can't find his e-mail address. D'OH!). The one that I can report concretely right now is the cult write-up for the Cult of Ragnaglar by Gary James. It appeared in issue 4 of the Australian magazine Multiverse, the Winter 1985 issue. Also included is a bit on something called Elemental Demons. I seem to also remember a whole bunch of RQ article from White Dwarf that also were not included. The one that comes most readily to mind was one dealing with Gloranthan demons. Hmmm. I'll have to check my vast archives for this stuff. If Steven Martin could please contact me, or someone could post his address, I think i can help to fill in some holes. Did evrybody check out the new issue of Dragon magazine? Sandy has an article in there on a rather unique Draconic entity. Comments anyone? Hal Mangold hmangold@muselab.ac.runet.edu Savage Henry SvgeHenry@aol.com --------------------- From: niwe@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander) Subject: Some Kralorelan stuff Message-ID: <9406051754.AA02234@ppvku.ericsson.se> Date: 5 Jun 94 21:54:15 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4384 Nils Weinander writing Here is a first faltering attempt at exploring Kralorelan culture. Praise and flame are both welcome, though not equally so :-). In the text everything within {} is comments from me. From the Scrolls of Past Masters and Solemn Erudition kept at the monastery of Three Towers and Rose Trees. {The scrolls are written on grey silk with dark red ink and enchanted for preservation}. 'These are the collected writings of the honourable and well spoken mandarin Ih Talwor, called Red Tiger (Tiger for his martial prowess and personal valour, Red for his uncommon colour of hair). Red Tiger was renowned for his knowledge of civil law and the art of waterworks. He was also an authority on classical poetry and an excellent martial artist, bing a master of both the long sword and unarmed combat. On his 100th birthday he retired from active service as a mandarin and entered our humble monastery to live out his remaining days as a monk and write down his learning. Thirteen weeks before his 109th birthday he met with the Silent Swordsman and left us to dwell in the innermost halls of the Palace of Waiting. {The god of Death is not worshipped as such in Kralorela, but seen as a Grim Reaper, which is honoured but has no cult. He may or may not be the same as Humakt.} ... {Many wise things on civil litigation and irrigation of rice paddies, essays on classical Kralorelan poetry etc.} ...so I was convinced that I could in this fashion reach the noble Imin Long, the August Dragon, who roams ways which are unknowable by man, but sometimes gives councel and judgement. I fasted and meditated for three days before girding my iron sword and donning my travelling shoes. I received two Poems of Power from the Exarch to help me gain entrance to the Place of Possibilities and to endure the presence of the Dragon. {The Poems of Power are something like one-time use divine spells, but possibly of draconic nature. The Place of Possibilities is the hero plane.} On 1-day, Week of the Journey's End, Month of Being I stood where the stone arch of the Bridge of One Way ends. There I meditated for an hour and then I started walking along the arch the bridge would make while reading the first Poem of Power. As I walked I could see that I was walking on the single cable which spans a great stretch, but it felt like a cobbled street. When I reached the far end I was no longer on the bridge, but standing on a mouintain path. The path winds in a spiral up to a high pinnacle. On the way up I had to fight three different monsters. I defeated all, but was wounded in the arm. When I came closer to the top I sensed the presence of the Dragon. When I cleared the final slope and reached the flat top of the peak I read the second Poem of Power to endure the dragon's presence. I stepped into the light of his grandeur and bowed as before the Emperor. He greeted me and asked my business. I said: "To ask for wisdom and judgement as only dragonkind can give" He answered: "It will be yours. You will receive five answers and your judgement" I asked: "What is life?" He answered "Life is the illusion that anything has a beginning" I asked: "What is death?" He answered: "Death is the illulsion that anything can cease to be." I asked: "What is chaos?" He answered: "Chaos is the illusion that entropy gives freedom." I asked: "What is order?" He answered: "Order is the illusion that the absence of entropy gives safety" I asked: "Is illumination then the solution?" He answered: "Illumination is the illusion that chaos and order exist, so they can be reconciliated. Illumination is insignificant when you have seen through the illusion and found the paradox of the Void." I said: "I thank you for your answers and will now take my judgement" He said: "You are a good man who strives to serve your empire and learn the wisdom of dragons. You will receive good health and sound thinking so that you will never judge falsely." ... If you people liked it I might return with more from the scrolls of Red Tiger. /Nils W --------------------- From: gadbois@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois) Subject: New Pelorian New Speak Message-ID: <199406052001.PAA08067@peaches.cs.utexas.edu> Date: 5 Jun 94 10:01:34 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4385 In X-RQ-ID: 4318, Nick Brooke links New Pelorian and the Newspeak from Orwell's 1984. I think that makes excellent sense: the Lunar way has always struck me as being derived from the Cold War western propaganda view of the USSR and the PRC. How shall the state be most vigorous? It shall be most vigorous when it is without conflict. How shall it be without conflict? When it is without disagreement. How shall disagreement be banished? By banishing the four causes of disagreement: lies, foolish talk, boastful talk, and talk which serves only to incite quarrells. How shall the four causes be banished? By speaking only Correct Thought. Then shall the state be without disagreement. Being without disagreement is shall be without conflict. Being without conflict it shall be vigorous, strong, and secure. The above quote is from "The Citadel of the Autarch" by Gene Wolf (Pocket Books, 1982, 0-671-49666-2.) There is a marvelous section of the book where the protagonist encounters an Ascian soldier named Loyal to the Group of Seventeen. The Ascians are an extreme example of the Red Menace. They speak nothing but stock phrases drawn from something like Mao's little book. Everyday speech for them consists of combinding the phrases in stylized ways. Later on in Wolfe's book, Loyal to the Group of Seventeen tells a story, and one of the other characters provides a running translation: ... the Ascian began to speak: "In times past, loyalty to the cause of the populace was to be found everywhere. The will of the Group of Seventeen was the will of everyone." Foila interpreted: _Once upon a time ..._ "Let no one be idle. If one is idle, let him band together with others who are idle too, and let them look for idle land. Let everyone they meet direct them. It is better to walk a thousand leagues than to sit in the House of Starvation." _There was a remote farm worked in partnership be people who were not related._ "One is strong, another beautiful, a third a cunning artifier. Which is best? He who serves the populace." _On this farm lived a good man._ "Let the work be divided by a wise divider of work. Let the food be divided by a just divider of food. Let the pigs grow fat. Let rats starve." _The others cheated him of his share._ And so on for several pages. I think watered down version sort of thing could serve as a nice model for New Pelorian pragmatics. On the mythological level, I think that the Lunars must have partially botched the questing that set up whatever god of communication presides over New Pelorian. They could have gotten some mechanistic Mostali Maker figure as the basis, and the transformation resulted in a god that lacked a good coverage of linguistic subtleties. For example, New Pelorian should break all the linguistic rules we know of. Have the language be highly inflectional (fewer words that way) and make inflectional morphology be context-sensitive. To effect this, have all the inflections be pairs of prefixes and suffixes that are combined cross-serially. For example: be- * -tan = sister of na- * -stal = female tapa- * -tar = Loyal to the Empire lun = The Red Goddes So: Tapanabeluntarstaltan is the New Pelorian name for the Great Sister. --David Gadbois