Bell Digest v940608p5

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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 08 Jun 1994, part 5
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From: (Graeme Lindsell)
Subject: Seshnela
Message-ID: <9406080255.AA17421@Sun.COM>
Date: 8 Jun 94 17:54:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4430

Sandy Petersen writes:
>I believe that land-owning peasants are the norm in Loskalm,
>and reasonably common in Tanisor -- maybe real common, because unlike
>Medieval Europe, where a noble is defined by owning land, in Tanisor,
>a noble is defined by his caste. Therefore, a noble is simply
>"assigned" the rule over a section of land, which may actually be
>owned by the peasants who work it, though they owe taxes and fealty
>to their lord.

 Really? According to the Salfester section in the Genertela book, all
the land in Seshnela is owned by the nobles. Is this a change in the party
line, or is that section Greg's stuff?

 Seshnela vs Medieval Europe: the Genertela book basically paints Seshnela
as Medieval France with a different religion. One big difference is the
fourth class, which is the knights or the nobles depending on how you look
at it. In medieval Europe the ruling class was the fighting class, but
in Tanisor the noble class - if they are trying to emulate the Brithini -
shouldn't fight at all. I don't really believe this happens, and I suspect 
that Seshnelan practice is as far from Rokari teachings as feudal society 
was from Christian teachings. The wizards wouldn't rail againts the
nobles wealth, since nobles _should_ own everything, but they'd preach 
against nobles fighting, and get support from the knights

 As for Loskalm, if the society does have individual ownership of land,
then I agree that land owning peasants could be common. Alternatively,
all land may be owned by the state/king. The write up of Loskalm is so
vague that it could be anything from an extremely idealized version of
medieval knights to a near-modern nation state to Nicks Nazi's.

 [Aside to Nick: I'm coming round to your "Nazi" view of Loskalm. I started 
asking myself: would I want to be a dissident in Loskalm? Now, dissidents
everywhere have problems, but they'd be in big trouble in Loskalm IMO]

Graeme Lindsell a.k.a
Research School of Chemistry, Australian National University, Canberra.
"I was 17 miles from Greybridge before I was caught by the school leopard"
Ripping Yarns - Tomkinson's Schooldays.


Subject: Not Sartar, just opinions.
Message-ID: <>
Date: 8 Jun 94 03:19:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4431

James Wadsley:
> There always seemed to be hints that
> the Orlanthi were going to put up some serious opposition to the 
> Lunars, but everything I read seems to put all the cards in the Lunar
> hand.

Of course, this is all settled, once and for all, in _King of Sartar_.
Well, okay, it isn't really, I lied.

Phillips Screwdriver keyboards:
> [...] fisherman
>       ^^^^^^^^^
> Here I go again... I want Lakes in Sartar. I have seen a few in old maps but
> they seem to dissapear. My own clan have quite a sizeable fishing lake.

They fish the rivers, rather stupendously obviously.  Too upland for large
inland lakes, and no coasts.  HQ to Cleanse the marsh, anyone?  Mind you,
Glorantha really doesn't have enough bodies of fresh water in general.
I mean, is someone drinking the stuff, or what?

> Most Scots
> who live near mountains have a real passion for them. They revere tham, they 
> worship them (quietly) and they really like the way they kill tourists.

A cult of the Munro for Sartar?  Whatta concept.

> Surely domestic dogs act as they do due to the fact they have been bred by
> humans. Wouldn't this stand for cats?

Dogs are social beings, cats tend not to be.  Hence the easier Conditioning.

> *Does* anyone have a write-up of Vinga? I have two female Orlanthi warriors in
> my group. It would very be handy..

I think most Vinga temples are shrines in O. Adventurous temples in normal
times, although Red Hair Lodges are formed when serious tuff starts to
happen.  In both cases, worshippers get pretty much the same magic as
O. Adventurous guys, with say one additional/different special rune spell.

> Why is Apple Lane not on the Swan River? Any Ideas?

It's not navigable at that point anyway, so there's no big trade deal.  There
are obviously riverside communities, though.

> I have been writing up my Sartar Campaign. Anyone want a copy?




Subject: Re: Hrestoli
Message-ID: <>
Date: 8 Jun 94 04:01:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4432

David Cake:
> 	Sandy, I tend to think that having a nation where you only get to 
> become a ruler when you have sucessfully proved your ability as a
> religious leader can get a nation that sort of reputation. Not to mention them
> all being ex-military men (which I suspect leads many of them to have a 
> certain simplistic attitude to problem solving). Now just imagine that the
> highest leaders of the land are those that excell at religious dedication and
> violence, and you can see what fun guys they must be.

While I'm not going to defend a Mr. Hrestol Happy Face position, I think the
above account of Hrestoli idealism may be somewhat, well, idealised.  First,
note the Farmer table of occupation in G:G.  Squire, hrm?  Guess whose son
gets _that_ job.  Similarly, I'll wager there are similar "niches" in the
Knightly and Priestly classes for persons clearly in the process of Rising
to Their Natural Position.  The extent to which this occurs probably varies
rather widely.

If one examines GoG, one finds that the "Wizards" may be lesser nobles,
and doubtless some "Knights" are in fact low-ranking clerics (deacons,
curates, vergers and the like).

> Probably some of them combine the
> knightly and religious virtues in the Lancelot, Galahad or Percival style
> (hmm... Galahad, perfect and insufferable, a good example)

Lancelot, bonking the King's wife, also an illustrative one.

> but I suspect 
> there are more than a few who are 'defenders of the faith' in the style of
> a good fanatic Islamic mullah, or maybe a good Christian soldier like 
> the famous Vlad V of Wallachia (ever seen the woodcut of him breakfasting
> among the impaled heretics?).

This isn't a comment which does any favours to the "fanatic Islamic mullah",
a stereotype which seems to trip rather readily off the modern western
tongue.  Of course, it might be debated whether tolerance for unbelievers
is even a supposed virtue of Malkionism, as it is of Islams and Christianity.

> 	Basically, I think that the Hrestoli are the good guys, as long as
> you are on their good side, but I think that they can be terrifying when 
> they decide that you are the bad guys. Of course, as long as they are fighting
> the Kingdom of War no one needs to worry...

Apart from the poor bastards in the middle, of course.



From: (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: herding dogs
Message-ID: <>
Date: 7 Jun 94 22:04:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4433

Jonas writes:

In our EW, there isn't much cattle (no real reason, it's just designer
fiat). No dogs, either (we're cat people, all three of us).

Geez!  What is it with "cat people"?  I'm rather fond of dogs AND cats.

and he asks:

_have_ to have dogs to herd sheep? Can't you just have a lot of young boys
running around (gives 'em some exercise...)?

Sheepdogs become important primarily in large scale herding operations. 
 It's not unusual for a good herding dog to run  50 or more miles/day, and 
much faster than any boy or sheep.  They also have an advantage in that 
herbivores inately fear them.  On small farms dogs are used to separate 
momma cows their calves while the farmer does nasty things to them.  An 
angry 800 pound cow will gladly trample a human, but she will not cross a 
thirty pound dog.  (Donald McCaig writes some very enjoyable books on border 
collies - look 'em up if you want to be awed).

A second type of sheep dog doesn't herd, but is raised with the sheep as a 
pup, and grows to regard the sheep as his pack.  The dog lives with the 
sheep and guards them from predators 24 hous/day - dogs can see pretty darn 
well at night.

And as for the theory of only dogs doing "menial labor":  dogs HATE doing 
menial tasks ("come", "sit", "stay", "lie down", or "fetch", depending on 
the dog), and are very inventive at avoiding them.  They do what they enjoy 
 - they have been bred to LIVE to herd, or hunt, or guard.  Nothing makes 
them happier.  I wish I enjoyed my job as much as my dog enjoys hers!

I liked the posting about hunting Alynx types - especially the ones trained 
to climb trees after prey.  One might consider, however, how much meat a 70 
kg alynx would eat - much less a breeding pair with kittens!  70 kg dogs can 
be easily kept because they eat a lot of cereal and veggies.  Terran 
domestic cats are traditionally small and eat mostly mice, insects, and 
birds.  Not many folks could afford to feed a cougar (90 kg).

Thanks for all the replies for horse & dog types, horse training rules, etc. 
 Will try to post something soon.  I'm currently pretty busy training  a new 
puppy (whee!), so it could be a while.

   /\   /\